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Bowser Question of the year

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NES n00b

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Mewtwo is worse than Bowser. Lol

Yeah, Link has bad matchups toward the top. He does ok against Marth and Peach (Peach is more even), but Sheik is just a *****. I hate that hoe. Hate!!! :mad:

Fox, Captain Falcon, and Falco are bad if they know what they are doing, but most people do not know how to play them to their full potential so it is not as bad as they could be.

Edit: Forgot to mention that Samus and Jiggs are just annoying.
 

Smooth Criminal

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Bowser sucks. Period. Anybody who wants to dispute this claim needs smacked in the head with a brick.

That doesn't mean that he isn't any fun to play, nor does it mean that you can't get anywhere with him.

>.>; Right?
 

SpellcasterNeos

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Hmm, ya know...KevinIM...you really shouldn't be so confident thinkin you can beat me; especially without seein my skills.
I don't disrespect any player without checkin out their moves; and even then, I'll let my characters do the talkin.
Judgin me without seein my moves is somethin an idiot would do. Only a fool would leap before looking.

LOL...trust me Kevin...ppl has told me that in that past...and got their butt beat..^_^
As for GIMPYFISH...I like your skills dude...
I would be honored to have a match with you ^_^
 

REDRAGON

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"Ask Taj that and you won't see live to see another day. Besides Link went down only because well Ainki is not here in the states. Plus not Link does well against the mid tiers and Marth, and probably Peach. After that he stinks..."

What do you mean Darkknight??? I think we agree about this topic but i am not sure what you meant by this.... :confused:
 

KevinM

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Dude your an idiot just stop talking, if you had maybe come in, listened to some people that know what they're talking about and humbled yourself a little i wouldn't have minded chatting with you, but your just another nub that should prolly go to a tournament before commenting on how good they are and challenging people that know the game better then you.

That is all i have on this matter
 

REDRAGON

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Dude your an idiot just stop talking, if you had maybe come in, listened to some people that know what they're talking about and humbled yourself a little i wouldn't have minded chatting with you, but your just another nub that should prolly go to a tournament before commenting on how good they are and challenging people that know the game better then you.

That is all i have on this matter
Here here!!!
Well said KevinM.
I like you, you are one smooth kid :cool:
 

NES n00b

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The point is SpellcasterNeos is that if you used Bowser's strengths to their max (upb and edgeguarding) and minimized the weaknesses (speed and lag), then he is still a bad character compared to characters with better strengths and less weaknesses. For example, Ganondorf is

a. more powerful (knockback damage) besides maybe smashes (not sure; just know that his more common moves do more damage and knockback than Bowser's common moves like fair, dair, etc.)

b. Has more range

c. Is faster

d. Has better throws and grab

e. Has a better tech chasing game

f. Has good edgeguarding (not as good as Bowser's IMO but eh, still good enough against Bowser)

g. Has alot less lag

Do you see how much better Ganondorf is compared to Bowser? I mean really. You can't think that Bowser is equal when Ganondorf has less lag, more speed, and more power (well, moves that can hit anyways). Hopefully, you see how characters can be better than others.
 

Eggz

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Hmm...I'll check youtube to see if I can measure up to this GimpyFish ^_^

I'm goin to say one more thing and thats it.

Every character in Smash Brothers Melee is good in their own way. Just because you don't see that many players use em doesn't mean there not good. Every character is equipped with their own unique strengths and weaknesses, and if you can't realize that and use that to your advantage, then it seems your the idiot.
It seems to me that intelligent folks are very resourceful and realize how to get out of any situation. An idiot looks at one side of a story and passes judgement, not seeing all angles of the matter. If your not an idiot, then you'll realize that all characters have some potential to win no matter what their weakness are. A true player can win with any character, knowing wha their capable of, and using that to their advantage. All I'm sayin is that all the characters in Melee can be used according to the player. I don't think it's to cool to down the character if he's not popular or because you suck with him/her. Be smart and know how to work with what you got, not what or who everyone else is doing.

And oh yeah, for KevinIM, usally a person is a bigger idiot to realize and notice another idiot. ^_^
Not all characters are made equally.

Several characters in the game are much much easier to beat than others. Sure, theoretically, a player with much more skill could beat a lesser player with a bad character. That doesn't change the fact that some characters suck.

If a character's weaknesses strongly outweigh its strengths, then the characters bad. No amount of "TIERZ DUNT EXIST!" can change that. You and your 26 posts can take a walk down intelligence lane, aka every character specific board, where people that arn't ness mains aknowledge how good or bad their respective characters are. now gtfo and learn something.
 

Zane Fleia

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SpellcasterNeos, I used to think similarly to you a few years ago. Tiers are a load of bull, how can anyone say one character is better than another, right? All characters are different, with their own strengths and weaknesses, but remain on an equal level because it all evens out, right? Just because Falco has great speed, can pillar, short hop lasers, shine, and just plain combo Bowser crazy, doesn't mean that he's better than Bowser, right?

Wrong. End of story, just wrong. Tiers are not a load of bull, Smash is one of the most unbalanced fighting games out there probably. Better and worse characters most certainly exist. There's no question about it. Each character DOES have their own strengths and weaknesses, absolutely. But these seperate them, not equal them out. Bowser is strong, but slow and laggy. The problem here is the slowness and lagginess makes him an easy target, which is all one needs to obliterate someone often enough. An easy target. An opening breaks the game open. An opening gets you grabbed and chainthrowed by Sheik, ending up in a forward air to throw you way off the stage. Then, if you lived through that, you have to make it back on the stage. Which is often easier said than done.

That's, of course, only one extremely specific example. It's a lot more general than it sounds. This game is built on the openings of others. Whether they trip up themselves or you provoke them into it through mindgames or such, the basis of competetive play is often to make an opening and take advantage of it. In the end, Bowser sucks at not being taken advantage of. Most of his moves lag. He doesn't hit very consistantly. Against most of the 'better' characters, he is abused.

He has some advantages, yes. Extremely good power and a good edge game among a few other things. But his weaknesses outweigh his advantages, and one of his weaknesses is being slow and laggy. One of the most fatal weaknesses to have in this game. Compared to a character like Fox, who has good recovery, amazing speed, the ability to abuse his laser, the shine, good throws, infinite combos, and multiple other things I'm sure I missed, there's no contest. Fox, like everyone, has problems. Predictable recovery is one of his bigger weaknesses, and he is easily edgeguarded by some characters like Sheik. But his advantages far outweight his weaknesses. Therefore, he is one of the best, and arguably the best character.

In a nutshell, what I'm trying to say is that you're thinking is flawed on this matter. No offense to you meant, but it is. Bowser sucks. The best Bowser players say Bowser sucks. Everyone says Bowser sucks. He just does. Take the above into consideration. I'm by no means a professional Bowser player. I'm by absolutely no means a professional Sheik player, and Sheik is my best. I'm not amazing. I'm not well-known. But you have to understand these things in order to get anywhere in this game. Even though I'm not the greatest player out there, and I'm probably not in the top 500 even, I see these things. It's important to understand these concepts.

The word often used for people with your mindset is scrub. You would be considered in a scrub frame of mind. Someone who believes, against all proof and plausibility, that all characters are equal and that the only thing that makes one character better is a cheap thing that should never be used for the sake of the game. I may be assuming, and the last part may or may not apply to you, but it's there. The game of Smash is not even close to balanced or fair. It's broken WIDE open.
 

Zane Fleia

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Well, of course he has the cuteness only one such as the King Koopa can attain. That's not a question. And that, of course, makes him god-tier. But that concept can only be understood once it is understood that Bowser does, indeed, suck.

And thanks. ^_^
 

HideousBeing

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Hmm...I'll check youtube to see if I can measure up to this GimpyFish ^_^

I'm goin to say one more thing and thats it.

Every character in Smash Brothers Melee is good in their own way. Just because you don't see that many players use em doesn't mean there not good. Every character is equipped with their own unique strengths and weaknesses, and if you can't realize that and use that to your advantage, then it seems your the idiot.
It seems to me that intelligent folks are very resourceful and realize how to get out of any situation. An idiot looks at one side of a story and passes judgement, not seeing all angles of the matter. If your not an idiot, then you'll realize that all characters have some potential to win no matter what their weakness are. A true player can win with any character, knowing wha their capable of, and using that to their advantage. All I'm sayin is that all the characters in Melee can be used according to the player. I don't think it's to cool to down the character if he's not popular or because you suck with him/her. Be smart and know how to work with what you got, not what or who everyone else is doing.

And oh yeah, for KevinIM, usally a person is a bigger idiot to realize and notice another idiot. ^_^
How naive! ^o^

Yes, I once thought the same thing. Let me first tell you, that to debate against Gimpyfish on this issue is complete idiocy- he is a pro Bowser player. Your naivette and your sheltered, scrubby view of the game, prove that you probably don't even play Bowser, and likely still brag of how you can best lvl 9 CPU's (if you can).

Know this: The developers of smash are not gods. The professional players are much closer to it than they. Humans, yes, even development teams, make errors! You express an opinion of harmonic balance in melee. If that were the case, changing anything in the game would upset the balance. Suppose that the game were completely balanced. (It seems you already do, so this should be easy.) Now change one of Bowsers moves. Make it better. Say..... make his fsmash take 0.2 sec less to come out. According to your view, the game is now imbalanced. Bowser, *gasp* IS THE BEST CHARACTER!!! Right? No. Wrong. Even if Bowser were graced with this blessing, (gosh, that would be sweet) he would likely not even budge on the tiers.

Now, let reality sink in. Bowser is a horrible character. You've totally turned this thread into a flamewar, but hopefully you'll learn something. Get it in that naive head of yours.

BTW, Welcome to smashboards. You should have a nice conversation with this guy... Dylan_Tnga. He's a great dude and would LOVE to meet you.

Edit: Could it be that Arash has made a troll account, and is just looking for a challenger to whoop?
 

-Wolfy-

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I agree completely with HideousBeing. Dylan_Tnga loves when newcomers to SWF send him lots of pm's.And tell him people think you have a scrub mentality, He'd most likely be willing to help explain things for you. Great guy.
 

DarkKnight077

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"Ask Taj that and you won't see live to see another day. Besides Link went down only because well Ainki is not here in the states. Plus not Link does well against the mid tiers and Marth, and probably Peach. After that he stinks..."

What do you mean Darkknight??? I think we agree about this topic but i am not sure what you meant by this.... :confused:
I'll try to spilt this up. You say Mewtwo is horrible..well Play Taj..I know that Mewtwo is somewhat better than Bowser. I'm guessing.

Also Link went down in the tier list well Ainki is in Japan. Ainki has a good Link and has beaten Ken on several occasions. In the states well Germ does bad in the tournaments.

Well Link also has many even match ups in the mid tier, when you get the high tier well Shiek, Capt, Fox and Falco well **** him. Marth and Peach are about even.
 

REDRAGON

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I'll try to spilt this up. You say Mewtwo is horrible..well Play Taj..I know that Mewtwo is somewhat better than Bowser. I'm guessing.

Also Link went down in the tier list well Ainki is in Japan. Ainki has a good Link and has beaten Ken on several occasions. In the states well Germ does bad in the tournaments.

Well Link also has many even match ups in the mid tier, when you get the high tier well Shiek, Capt, Fox and Falco well **** him. Marth and Peach are about even.
Ok, I think i understand now! Thanks! :)
 

Speedsk8er

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Reading through this thread pissed me off because I'm a Ness main and I don't think that he's godly... I just don't think that he's as high on the tier list as he should be....

>_>
<_<
God tier....

I dunno, I find it so much easier to play Mewtwo than Bowser and win. You guys sure that Mewtwo is worse than bowser? Maybe a list of advantages/disadvantages..

and Spellcaster. Your best bet is to recede like hair lines. You will not win this. Bowser is teh suck. End of story.
 

-Wolfy-

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Reading through this thread pissed me off because I'm a Ness main and I don't think that he's godly... I just don't think that he's as high on the tier list as he should be....

>_>
<_<
God tier....

I dunno, I find it so much easier to play Mewtwo than Bowser and win. You guys sure that Mewtwo is worse than bowser? Maybe a list of advantages/disadvantages..

and Spellcaster. Your best bet is to recede like hair lines. You will not win this. Bowser is teh suck. End of story.
I'm pretty sure spellcaster expected the entire Bowser community to get behind him on that one, but was shocked when just about everyone ackknowledged that he sucks, but they don't play him because he's good. Poor kid never saw it coming.
 

Deathcarter

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We all agree that Bowser sucks, but what you all don't understand is that Bowser is the worst character in the game (its either that or I don't understand he is the best of the bottom 4).
I will list all the things which I beleive make Bowser sucks compared to Kirby, Pichu, and Mewtwo. Bowser cannot cover distance like the others and is as probaly as bad as Kirby in this regard. Kirby and Pichu are much smaller targets than him (Mewtwo is still too easy to hit despite being smaller). He is laggy even compared to them. Mewtwo can at least combo while Bowser has no combo potential. Finally, the other 3 have (slighty) better Fox, Falco, and Shiek matchups (Shiek is not arguable).
Bowser has a better Marth matchup, an approach move in fair, and upB to punish all who do not L-cancel. You all said it yourself that a powerful but slow, laggy, and giant character fails. I just beleive it fails more than Kirby, Pichu, and Mewtwo.

Knolegeable smashers are urged to reply.
 

Zane Fleia

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Though an opinionated bottom tier, one I agree with for the most part. I have a Zelda friend who can do some sick stuff though. And I play Kirby often. I think he's a bit better than third worst, so I disagree placing him as THE worst. (Of course, when I say a bit better than third worst, I mean exactly that: a bit. He's still either fourth of fifth worst).
 

_shadow_fox_

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Bottom tier (brought to you by gimpyfish)

Yoshi
Bowser
Mr. Game and Watch
Zelda
Ness
Mewtwo
Pichu
Kirby
Yeah, I agree. WTF do you have against bowser man?? I dont play him, ad so what if many people dont play good as him isnt the teir list about maximun ability. If you go against a pro bowser no matter who you are. Your gonna be in for a good match, you may win or lose but, worse than mewtwo, worse than any of those other people ... NESS?? Anyway, Bowser deserves something for pwning you all so do him a fovr and SHUT UP!! He has feelings too gosh.

But gimpyfish, this is off subject but Kirby>Zelda or Ness around there somewhere =]
 

Endless Nightmares

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I love Bowser, but he's the worst character in the game. Pichu, Mewtwo, and Kirby are better characters that Bowser.

Every bottom of bottom tier character board handles this question the same way. Ask the Bowser board? Majority will say that Bowser is not the worst. Pichu board? They'll say Pichu is not the worst. Same with Mewtwo/G&W/Kirby boards.
 

Gimpyfish62

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anyone who thinks bowser is the worst character doesn't know wtf they are doing when they play as him.

kirby is by far the worst character.
 

_shadow_fox_

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Shadow, Gimpy is one of the best Bowser players up there with Arash and others. He loves Bowser. :p

Kirby is one of the worst 4 if not the worst (I believe that Mewtwo or Pichu is the worst but another debate).
Look, I know who he is. I dont care. I know kirbys one of the worst but all im saying is ... dead last. Now i know how pichu feels man.
 

NES n00b

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I agree that Kirby shouldn't be dead last since there is Pichu and Mewtwo in this game, but who is last is up for debate and Kirby is a likely canidate while Bowser is not.

Also, wtf Gimpy? Game and Watch lower than Bowser? I can understand Ness and the others, but Game and Watch?
 

Zane Fleia

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I know Bowser's better than worst. I'm not gonna contest that, but I do think Kirby's a little better. Certainly beats the crud outta Pichu.
 

KevinM

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No, Kirby has zero potential and is absolute crap, Kirby is literally in his own category of bad.

Honestly I agree with that tier list almost 100 percent, though i admit, Game and Watch is close, he has a harder time with higher tiers..

Remember NES its not a debate on who's better in 1 vs 1 its who's better against all the characters.

Bowser is still not good though
 

-Wolfy-

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Bowser was born to be spiked by Kirby. I agree with him being higher, but the only difference I would make to that is Kirby AT LEAST one behind Bowser, if not one ahead.
 

KevinM

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Bowser was not born to be spiked by Kirby,

Kirby was born to be directly at the bottom of the tier list... Feel free to disagree but no that you disagree with the opinion of most top pros.. and KevinM.. RI BOWSER MANIAC :beezo:
 
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