Bowser Question of the year

[Gojira]

I have a question that I would like all Bowser players to talk about. This is a question that i have been asking myself and now I would like everyone else to try to answer this question as i Have been trying to do.
We all know Bowser sucks. At high level play it is practically impossible to win with him. However since I have been back around the Bowser forums alot recently trying to get my Bowser up to date for OC3, I have seen alot of posts in threads that would make newcomers to Bowser think he is not bad at all. I know Bowser does have some pretty good medium, high, and top tier, matches, but over half the cast can destroy Bowser. Then again, i keep seeing bowser does well vs alot of the characters in the character matcup thread.

So is Bowser worse then we think or better then we think? And if so, Why is there so much belief in the bowser threads? I have seen talk about marth, falco(mostly through IMing with Gimpy), and Fox info that says they all are winnable matchups. So im getting the idea that Bowser can do well in high level based on all the info I have been reading......but i know its not true.

Finally Should he be higher on the Tier then we think?

 

[Speedsk8er]

IMO, I think he's the most worthless character in the game. I have an easier time winning with Pichu or Mewtwo than I do with Bowser.

Of course I wouldn't play him if he wasn't so **** fun.

 

[MagnuM]

He's fun to play and the cutest character there is, that's all I care about!

 

[HideousBeing]

I'd like to think that anything is possible, if you play defensively enough. If you, Gojira, or Gimpy played 1,000 matches against the best Sheik, do you doubt you would win a single one? Pretty soon the metagame would prolly kick in and you'd both be very familiar with each other's playing style. Out of 1,000 games, surely you would win at least one. And if that's possible, it's always possible. That's how I think of it. The thing is, it's the probablity that assures you will most likely lose. One of Bowser's worst traits is that he is easy to combo. It sounds stupid, but then the key is to avoid and recognize a combo coming. So, prolly the best Bowsers would play very conservatively, and try and prevent being drawn into a combo. The problem is, with Bowser, this is pretty much asking not to take damage. So, I guess what I'm saying here is, "If you don't take damage, you'll be fine." Perhaps I'm too optimistic though. Meh, I wanna hear Gimpy's thoughts on this. He's the pro, not me- these are just my musings as a Bowserling.

And should Bowser be higher on the tiers? No. The lower he is, the greater joy it brings me when I scrub a scrub off the floor. I wish he was 26.

 

[Deathcarter]

Between the bottom 4 characters, Bowser has the worst top/high tier matchups between the 4 of them. He has no chance to win in a tournament against them and that is why he should be at the bottom. But he is so fun to play as.

 

[-Wolfy-]

Bowser does have shock value on his side. Who expects to see a good Bowser? Anyone of you try and tell me you haven't at one point or another, whipped out Bowser after playing with another high tier, only to see jaws drop, people gasp, and most likely call you a scrub or an idiot, only to wipe the floor with them because noone expects to see a good bowser? It's the greatest feeling in the world. Everyone knows what a competitive Shiek, Fox, Marth, Falco, or Falcon is going to be like, but who is really prepared for a good Bowser?
Maybe I'm totally wrong, but maybe theres something to it. Just my two cents

 

[Gojira]

Between the bottom 4 characters, Bowser has the worst top/high tier matchups between the 4 of them. He has no chance to win in a tournament against them and that is why he should be at the bottom. But he is so fun to play as.

you saying pichu has better matchups? You saying mewtwo has better matchups?

Well, i dont think bowser should eb any lower. In my honest opinion he should be two high at worse. Bowser has just a good chance as pichu, mewtwo, and kirby.

 

[-Wolfy-]

I don't know about Kirby, but definitely Pichu and Mewtwo. Bowser has much better matchups that Pichu and Mewtwo.

 

[KevinM]

Between the bottom 4 characters, Bowser has the worst top/high tier matchups between the 4 of them. He has no chance to win in a tournament against them and that is why he should be at the bottom. But he is so fun to play as.

Are you telling me that Kirby, Pichu, and Mewtwo are better characters because if so i'm really going to start laughing.

Do i think Bowser is a good character, no i think bowser is absolute crap, i fully agree with MagnuM's posts, as long as i can win with him, and he's cute thats all that matters.

 

[SpellcasterNeos]

Bowser, like all the other characters are good in their own way. It really depends on the player; if the player is good he/she can make any character work. To be honest playin with Bowser, aint all bad; trick is you gotta work with wha you got. We all know Bowser is slow *** heck, but the trick is to to stay partly inmobile for the majority of the match.; basically let them come to you; Bowser has pure power and any one of his moves can keep opponents at bay unless your facing another Bowser player. ^_^

 

[SpellcasterNeos]

Oh and P.S., he should be a HIGH TIER character since he has nothing but pure power

 

[-Wolfy-]

SpellcasterNeos...

1. You're new as I can see, but don't double post, edit your previous post.

2. The tier lists only really take effect between two evenly matched pros, where since the skill is even, the deciding factor almost certainly becomes the characters used.

3. I died a little inside when I read your second post. By that same logic one could assume that D.K must also be destined for the high tiers.

 

[Bailey]

In response to first post it is all false hope the best kind of hope.

 

[SpellcasterNeos]

Wolverine,

Bowser can be compared to all the powerful players such as Donkey Kong, and believe it or not Ganondorf ^_^ Bowser is indeed slow, but he's powerful. Put it this way. You have 3 powerhouses in Melee. BOWSER, DONKEY KONG, and GANONDORF. There power levels are all pretty high but they can all be catagorized. For example, Ganondorf is a well balanced "POWER" character, he has moderate speed, for a POWER character, and his dodges are pretty quick for a character of his caliber. Donkey Kong has power but he's pretty fast for a powerhouse. Bowser basically has no speed, but all of his moves prettty much keep the opponents away from you. ^_^

 

[-Wolfy-]

I'm not dissing the Bowser as I would assume you think I have, I'm just saying Bowser is prone to, and not at all limited to, projectile spamming, range abusing, and getting combo'd. Bowser is my third character, and I'm only speaking our of experience. I personally play a better defensive bowser, but if you stand still you can consider yourself dead with hit speed and size. And even a shffl'd Bowser just isn't fast enough IMO to be a bigtime offensive power.

 

[SpellcasterNeos]

Oh okay, I see where your comin from, but all big characters have their weakness, which is pretty much, "imobility". It's the same tryin to play with Hulk in Marvel vs. Capcom; he's strong and defensive, but his weakness is speed. And naw...^_^... I don't think your dissing Bowser, he's cool in his POWERFUL WAY ^_^

 

[Bailey]

My idea was better false hope.

 

[Gojira]

Mfao

He's fun to play and the cutest character there is, that's all I care about!

I dont know how i missed your post. I know that all that matters is Bowser being CUTE. I just want to get this question answered lol.

 

[SpellcasterNeos]

hahaha...a cute Bowser...O..O...I know...
HOW ABOUT BABY BOWSER.....if you think the orginal Bowser is cute....Baby Bowser should be even more cuter....LOL!!!!

Hmm...They should put him in Brawl....a faster version of Bowser, sorta like Young Link ^_^

 

[Bailey]

False hope ftw.

 

[KevinM]

Bowser, like all the other characters are good in their own way. It really depends on the player; if the player is good he/she can make any character work. To be honest playin with Bowser, aint all bad; trick is you gotta work with wha you got. We all know Bowser is slow *** heck, but the trick is to to stay partly inmobile for the majority of the match.; basically let them come to you; Bowser has pure power and any one of his moves can keep opponents at bay unless your facing another Bowser player. ^_^

Oh and P.S., he should be a HIGH TIER character since he has nothing but pure power

Wolverine,

Bowser can be compared to all the powerful players such as Donkey Kong, and believe it or not Ganondorf ^_^ Bowser is indeed slow, but he's powerful. Put it this way. You have 3 powerhouses in Melee. BOWSER, DONKEY KONG, and GANONDORF. There power levels are all pretty high but they can all be catagorized. For example, Ganondorf is a well balanced "POWER" character, he has moderate speed, for a POWER character, and his dodges are pretty quick for a character of his caliber. Donkey Kong has power but he's pretty fast for a powerhouse. Bowser basically has no speed, but all of his moves prettty much keep the opponents away from you. ^_^

KevinM says- WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONGGGGG

WRONG WRONGGG WRONGGG WRONGGG WRONGGG WRONGGG WRONGGG WRONNGGGG

WRONGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG

 

[SpellcasterNeos]

KevinM

Okay...are there any other powerhouses in Melee that Bowser can be compared to? And how would you describe his weaknesses and strengths compared to the powerhouses, considering he's one of the strongest characters.
Cause, last time I checked, most of Bowser's smash moves send opponents flyin at a moderatly low percentage.

 

[KevinM]

Last time i checked all of bowsers smash attacks are completely situational, last time i checked bowser is no where near top tier, last time i checked he can't be compared to Donkey Kong or Ganondorf since they both destroy bowser, unless your a really good bowser sans me or gimpy.

Last time i checked you have no clue what your talking about

 

[Gimpyfish62]

edit: whoops wrong thread XD

just to clarify for you all, a quote from a well known expert on high level bowser gameplay.

Bowser is not good

so there you have it.

 

[SpellcasterNeos]

Kevin

I'm tellin ya, it all depends on the player. If your a good Smasher, you can make any character work, including Bowser. There are players out there tha work extremely well with slow characters, believe it or not. Who knows, there might even be expert Bowser players out there ^_^
Just because you don't know how to use a character, doesn't mean they SUCK ^_^

P.S. all of the smash attacks, on any character, are situational, you can't just blindly use em. they have to be either comboed in or used at the exact moment.

 

[KevinM]

I have one too, its not as high level or well known but he talks with gimpy at times..

That guy Gimpy really knows his stuff, Bowser is not good

Yea i have to admit its a done deal

 

[KevinM]

Kevin

I'm tellin ya, it all depends on the player. If your a good Smasher, you can make any character work, including Bowser. There are players out there tha work extremely well with slow characters, believe it or not. Who knows, there might even be expert Bowser players out there ^_^
Just because you don't know how to use a character, doesn't mean they SUCK ^_^

Err you've had three of the best bowser players just tell you that bowser sucks, are you going to tell Me Gimpy and Magnum that we don't know how to play bowser well.. Right so ignoring you and your ignorance now. Have fun nublet keep thinking that

BAH I DOUBLE POSTED THANKS TO THE NUBLET >_>

 

[NES n00b]

To help Magnum, Gimpy, and KevinM, I have to say that Bowser sucks. Not only do I say he sucks, other people who play Bowser says he sucks (not to mention everyone else). He does not fight like Donkey Kong or Ganondorf (not even those two fight like each other), and therefore, cannot be categorized. The end.

 

[REDRAGON]

KevinM

Okay...are there any other powerhouses in Melee that Bowser can be compared to? And how would you describe his weaknesses and strengths compared to the powerhouses, considering he's one of the strongest characters.
Cause, last time I checked, most of Bowser's smash moves send opponents flyin at a moderatly low percentage.

Speed>>>>>>>Power ANY DAY IN SMASH HISTORY!!!
Think about the top characters(Fox, Falco, Marth, C. Falcon) All flippin fast!
I think most if not all people that play a character and start getting good start to think omg Bowser is sooo good, he is underrated!!!
But the creator of this thread saw the light: Bowser and alot of the other low tier characters are really really bad. Plan truth!

Redragon

 

[KevinM]

3. I died a little inside when I read your second post. By that same logic one could assume that D.K must also be destined for the high tiers.

A lot of pro's think that DK should be High Tier, though obviously not for that reason, just thought i should throw that out there

 

[SpellcasterNeos]

KevinIM

Hmm....U guys just don't get it...U guys must not be good players if your "supposedly"
good with Bowser, and you still think he sucks.
Which is quite sad for supposedly good players T_T
If your so GOOD, you can beat any player with him without fail, unless, your not good players, which expalins it.

Speed is not always the answer, trust me. Underestimate inmobility and your pretty much finished.

LOL!!!

 

[KevinM]

I don't even know how to respond to your ignorance, i guess your just an idiot...

Look bowser is not good sorry to say that pal

 

[NES n00b]

SpellcasterNeos go to a tournament, win with Bowser, then come back and tell us we are bad players. You can call me a bad Bowser player, but you can't call Gimpy or Magnum bad Bowser players (sorry KevinM, don't know about you T_T). Just look up Gimpyfish on youtube and see if you compare to him.

Edit: I agree with the above poster's great description of SpellcasterNeos.

 

[DarkKnight077]

Speed>>>>>>>Power ANY DAY IN SMASH HISTORY!!!
Think about the top characters(Fox, Falco, Marth, C. Falcon) All flippin fast!
I think most if not all people that play a character and start getting good start to think omg Bowser is sooo good, he is underrated!!!
But the creator of this thread saw the light: Bowser and alot of the other low tier characters are really really bad. Plan truth!

Redragon

Ask Taj that and you won't see live to see another day. Besides Link went down only because well Ainki is not here in the states. Plus not Link does well against the mid tiers and Marth, and probably Peach. After that he stinks...

@Spellcaster: Fine use Fox against a "good" Link then. Link wouldn't last very much and neither would Bowser. Bowser is just a fun character to use. But I wouldn't actually like to try to master him. >> I rather master like...Shiek or maybe a Ganny.

 

[Gimpyfish62]

omg just because taj plays as mewtwo doesn't mean he thinks mewtwo is good, taj is an intelligent person, he realizes how horrible that character is more than anyone, i've discussed it with him, just as i realize how awful bowser is, taje realizes how awful mewtwo is.

not every low tier is like a ness main, some of them actually admit their character is as bad as its rumored, if not worse.

 

[KevinM]

It's ok NES i have no vids of me or anything yet

They don't show much though man, I'm just knowledgeable about the only character i play

Ness Mains... *shivers*

 

[NES n00b]

Yeah, I know that Link is bad, but is underated. What I mean by underated is the point that he can win in lower levels of play (which most of us are). Most think he is useless in mid level play which is not entirely true. Of course, he has less and less of chance as the metagame gets higher (especially against Sheik, Fox, and Falco).

 

[SpellcasterNeos]

Hmm...I'll check youtube to see if I can measure up to this GimpyFish ^_^

I'm goin to say one more thing and thats it.

Every character in Smash Brothers Melee is good in their own way. Just because you don't see that many players use em doesn't mean there not good. Every character is equipped with their own unique strengths and weaknesses, and if you can't realize that and use that to your advantage, then it seems your the idiot.
It seems to me that intelligent folks are very resourceful and realize how to get out of any situation. An idiot looks at one side of a story and passes judgement, not seeing all angles of the matter. If your not an idiot, then you'll realize that all characters have some potential to win no matter what their weakness are. A true player can win with any character, knowing wha their capable of, and using that to their advantage. All I'm sayin is that all the characters in Melee can be used according to the player. I don't think it's to cool to down the character if he's not popular or because you suck with him/her. Be smart and know how to work with what you got, not what or who everyone else is doing.

And oh yeah, for KevinIM, usally a person is a bigger idiot to realize and notice another idiot. ^_^

 

[DarkKnight077]

Off Topic kind of ness..: Ness mains are just trolls. Least I admit my main Link kind of sucks after the Mid tiers. =/ Good against low..totally horrible in top and has almost even macthes in everyone other ones. T.T Why...why?!! D:

I don't Mewtwo is that bad..or maybe because I can't use him at all. >>

 

[KevinM]

Hmm...I'll check youtube to see if I can measure up to this GimpyFish

You couldn't measure up to Gimpyfish, or Magnum, or Arash, or Gojira, or Me... i can say this without ever seeing you play just by you trying to say bowser is a good character.