Bowser: Official Character Discussion

[Ulevo]

Discussion for Bowser. Anyone can suggest anything for any of these topics, and it'll be noted. Popular suggestions/values will be marked as such. Final values will be determined by popularity, so voice your opinion!

Suggested Offensive Modifications:

Suggested Defensive Modifications:


Default Physics:
SH:
FH:
FF:
DGrav:
Grav:

Physics Changes:

Specific Move Fixes:


Anything else:

 

[The Cape]

What I think would really help him is the following:

LBK on U and D throws to facilitate combos and techchases respectively
HSK on B and F throws to help setup edgeguards and kills
More KB on F smash. The move looks like it hits like a truck, so it should. Also, stupid powerful move, and slow as all hell. Snake F smash is easier to land and kills ALOT lower.
Remove Momentum from aerial up and B to facilitate this recovery.

 

[Ulevo]

Bowser currently has problems with damage dealing, so helping him to string combos together via Uthrow knock back decrease and tech chase Dthrows respectively sounds good. Bowsers current Fthrow and Bthrow also have little use, which detracts from his grab game, which is currently dominant right now because of his lack of ability to damage deal (or one of the few methods to damage deal), so I agree with those buffs as well.

Given the fact that Bowser is normally very easy to edge guard because of his massive size, and no safe recovery options, I also support the lagless Up B. Right now, even with the lag reduction, it is still horrendously slow and very easy to take advantage of.

FSmash is negligible. It's use won't increase if damage dealt or knock back is increased considering how slow it is. Buffs in other areas would likely be more beneficial to his character, but this is my opinion.

I'll be trying to play Bowser more often this coming week since I will be off for a full 11 - 12 days.

 

[The Cape]

The F smash buff is mostly due to the fact that its a huge punishment move and it cant kill for ****.

Snake, DDD, Ike, Luigi
All have stronger F smashes (I think) and are much easier to hit.

If we cant increase the knockback can we lower the angle so it hits more horizontal?

 

[Ulevo]

The F smash buff is mostly due to the fact that its a huge punishment move and it cant kill for ****.

Snake, DDD, Ike, Luigi
All have stronger F smashes (I think) and are much easier to hit.

If we cant increase the knockback can we lower the angle so it hits more horizontal?

After playing around with Bowser briefly, I see what you are implying. I nailed a Captain Falcon at around 98% and he went... basically no where. With that lack of power, there is no viable excuse to even use the move. I believe you're correct in your decision for a buff strength.

 

[The Cape]

What about SA on Bowser crawl?

Enough that he could resist jabs and projectiles, but not enough to stop smash attacks. This helps his approach game against the spammier cast.

 

[Ulevo]

I've been thinking about something with regards to Bowser, but have been reluctant to post the idea simply because of the OMG factor people would likely give me.

What if we made it so specific projectiles did not flinch Bowser, and it was based on %. Generally the faster the projectile, the weaker the damage. Bowser is massive, and has a hard time dealing with... hit boxes in general. I had a Wolf Utilt me out of Dive Bomb last night. But against projectiles he's nothing more than a target. If we made it so Bowser had SA against projectiles that were very spammable, such as Falcos SHDL, but not on higher damaging projectiles such as Gordos or Grenades, it could increase his potential a lot.

Just an idea however.

 

[Revven]

That actually sounds pretty cool to me Ulevo, it emphasizes his tanking style even more!

 

[The Cape]

Thats what I was going for.

I wanted him to be able to SA weak attacks that do like 4 damage or less, but nothing more.

Only on crawl/crouch as well as this would give an interesting approach to Bowser and help him get through the rough patches. With the dash cancel system he can really abuse this to get close.

 

[Ulevo]

Thats what I was going for.

I wanted him to be able to SA weak attacks that do like 4 damage or less, but nothing more.

Only on crawl/crouch as well as this would give an interesting approach to Bowser and help him get through the rough patches. With the dash cancel system he can really abuse this to get close.

Given his slow movement speed, I would say apply this to every projectile that does x amount of damage for everything. Even if he isn't stunned while crouching or dashing, he is forced into these two positions and can't stand or jump, which severely limits his options, which is the same problem we're trying to solve.

 

[The Cape]

Boozer meat tanking through arrows and lasers is some hot ****.

F smash knockback and throws change are a must for sure.

 

[CT Chia]

while reading through the ICs thread ppl are saying a fully charge Bowser fsmash kills at all percents...

is this true? i never tried it. what if its like on another bowser (or even a midweight) at 0 or very low percent with good di.

idk if it should be a guaranteed kill per say, but perhaps close to it. maybe on like a jigglypuff or another ridiculously light character (except maybe being able to live at zero with DI). just killing from 0 seems a lil.... idk

we also have to remember things like teams where something like this could hit a bit more often than in singles.

 

[shanus]

I might have made the base knockback a bit too high. It normally doesn't KO on most stages till at least 50-60% though without DI. However, I guess the charge makes it a bit... stronger

 

[Blank Mauser]

Bowser had the most votes for bottom 10, with a total of 15 members saying hes bottom 10 material. There has been some talk in the heavies thread, but for organization-sake I'm going to start discussion again here since this new poll brings up relative concern.

Here were my ideas back in my application:

Bowser: The moves I would cut noticeable landing lag on are Uair, Side-B, Neutral-b, and Up-B. With uair I would have it kill better at the start of the move, but if you hit with the backside of it there would be a sweetspot that doesn't have much knockback and combos instead. On the ground this could combo into a sped up Usmash(I'll get to it later) at lower percents or even a grab, at higher percents it would most likely give Bowser a fair or bair. Neutral-B canceling on landing could give Bowser some nice grab setups as well.

For fortress, along with the lag cancel on landing I would let him be able to fast fall it after a certain amount of time. Not soon enough he could repeat it at DJC speed though. To compliment this, I'd also make it so he doesn't go into freefall after it. He could slide off edges and platforms, maybe even combo out of fortress if he lands. Another thing I would do is increase the hitbox slightly and have the center of the move be a sweetspot that kills off the top at decent percentage.

Utilt could be a little faster, as the sped up Utilt covers his blind spots well, but not too fast. What I would do is speed up Usmash instead. While Utilt combos better, Usmash comes out faster and has cool down. Another thing I would do is make the ground hit that Bowser does when he lands for Usmash have a pitfall effect. On-stage, this could be trouble for shielding opponents, and off-stage it could spike. Both these moves help him against characters with aerial momentum. Dtilt could also be sped up to help him kill. I kinda want Ftilt to stun people if it hits straight in the face, but I don't think brawl has any headshot detectors. =P

Instead of cutting the lag on dair, I'd speed up the entire move. Fast enough to autocancel and get another aerial off afterwards. Fair could use a slight damage buff and send at a lower angle. Other moves that could be deserving of more damage would be his jabs and grab pummels. His Fthrow could plop people upwards like his Side-B used to do in Melee.

Really I didn't like the thick skin code. At first I thought it was a good idea, but one of my friends is a Bowser main and as I watched more and more replays I realized "Why are all my combos on Bowser so long?" The thick skin code only helps him get combo'd longer, I'd rather up his survivability with better recovery/weight.

Try to keep discussion of Bowser here rather then the heavies thread, so we can really make progress on him.

 

[Revven]

Bowser Nair, I think we should just do this:

Get rid of the semi-spike angle and give it a 45º angle or something, make the hitbox the size it had before in 7-21 OR make it 1.35x in size. That way, it could be a good aerial OOS (even though he already has Up B) and he could use it for edgeguarding against certain recoveries but, it wouldn't **** them nearly as bad as the semi-spike wouldn't be there. Nair could actually then set up for Bowser's Bair edgeguarding... since that semi-spikes.

Thoughts?

 

[shanus]

Bowser Nair, I think we should just do this:

Get rid of the semi-spike angle and give it a 45º angle or something, make the hitbox the size it had before in 7-21 OR make it 1.35x in size. That way, it could be a good aerial OOS (even though he already has Up B) and he could use it for edgeguarding against certain recoveries but, it wouldn't **** them nearly as bad as the semi-spike wouldn't be there. Nair could actually then set up for Bowser's Bair edgeguarding... since that semi-spikes.

Thoughts?

I had actually made it the size of the fortress (actually slightly larger) as it was what I thought to be the perfect size marker for the size of his shell. But if you want to make it bigger

*shrugs*

 

[Revven]

I had actually made it the size of the fortress (actually slightly larger) as it was what I thought to be the perfect size marker for the size of his shell. But if you want to make it bigger

*shrugs*

It's mostly the people I hear in the IRC that keep saying it's still too small. =\

 

[VietGeek]

Some of these people need to learn how to start playing gayer with Bowser.

i herd zeon is giving lessons for $25 an hour online

pm him if ur interested =V

Err...anyway.

So about the Bowser utilt thing.

Anyone want to tell me WHY the change is necessary? It looks like the attack hitboxes match the animation perfectly. The upswing from his front starts around his neck so it doesn't hit shorties for a good reason.

But we're trying to move it so it DOES hit shorties right? =V

cuz I thought it was because the move connected REALLY weirdly or something. but then i looked at it and it didn't seem too off. o_O

i'm asking so i have a basis of knowing where to place it at.

 

[The Cape]

The move doesnt hit CF standing close enough to kiss Bowser.

Really weird there.

 

[Revven]

Bowser's Ftilt, Dtilt, and one other move (Bair maybe?) should do more shield damage, at least a little more than they did now as they are all quite easily shielded and have minimal pushback. At the cost of that, they should do more damage imo. Plus, it is making Bowser scarier that he can almost break your shield. Thoughts?

(Kinda taken from Neko, it's his idead. :x)