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Blast Processing Cinemax: Sonic Video Thread/Critique thread

GabPR

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I'll see if I can analyse those grand finals a bit more and write down what I think. So far you look very solid. I absolutely love that b reverse Spindash charge gimp! Oh man I need to use that. So far I have some basic observations;

- Watch out for stage choices; Warioware versus Roy didn't seem to work out well for you.

- Calm down when on platforms above the opponent, you got punished multiple times for missed attacks while Roy was below you.

- While your aggressive attacks were working the majority of the time, perhaps you should bait a little bit more and let Roy come to you for some grab into kill moves.

These are just a few simple things that I saw occurring. Please let me know if you do not agree with my observation and I hope this helps!
Thank you for your advice, some things to mention though is that, while I realize Wario Ware is not the best of stages for Sonic, I do find it more.comfortable for recovery options, moving around and other things, but after this tourney I will consider if I should replace my greenhill zone ban or maybe even yoshis, what do you think?
 

Star ☆

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Thank you for your advice, some things to mention though is that, while I realize Wario Ware is not the best of stages for Sonic, I do find it more.comfortable for recovery options, moving around and other things, but after this tourney I will consider if I should replace my greenhill zone ban or maybe even yoshis, what do you think?
I don't think it should be an absolute automatic ban, you should consider what character you're fighting; Roy can kill Sonic very fast on small stages and Warioware is smaller than Green Hill Zone. I even recall you mentioning this yourself;
Wario Ware definetly is a horrible pick (in my opinion) against certain characters that take full advantage of the platforms like Marth or Roy.
However when you're fighting lighter characters perhaps you should go for smaller stages for easy kills. I used to be always afraid of Yoshi's/FoD but I went FoD one day versus Kirby and I realised how much of a benefit it can be to Sonic in that matchup.
 
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Duum

Smash Rookie
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Oct 14, 2013
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Awesome matches gabPR, I felt like I learned a lot watching you. Just wondering, have you ever tried using the slide attack out of the side-b? Roy is a fast faller, and I think at the higher percentages (100+ i think) the slide attack is a kill move. At the very least, it makes it really hard for roy to come back to the stage
 

Player -0

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SH Nair out of Sonic's Side B should link more reliably/less endlag and should send at a decent distance too. You might even be able to SH first hit of Up Air to something too.

Of course the question was for GabPR.
 

RustyPan

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Oct 11, 2013
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I've only ever played on netplay and haven't done many lans, so I'm just wondering how I matchup to the rest of the world.

twitch.tv/waffru/c/4838823 Soinc vs Lucas. (Sorry I don't have 10 posts so I can't post it as a link).

I was too afraid to go offstage to gimp mostly because I don't have much experience with the lucas matchup.
 

Player -0

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I've only ever played on netplay and haven't done many lans, so I'm just wondering how I matchup to the rest of the world.

twitch.tv/waffru/c/4838823 Soinc vs Lucas. (Sorry I don't have 10 posts so I can't post it as a link).

I was too afraid to go offstage to gimp mostly because I don't have much experience with the lucas matchup.
For edgeguarding Lucas you can just nair him pretty much when he tried to tether or use spring. If he's using PKT2 then just do anything.
 

Player -0

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I need help with the Falco Matchup https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BP4DKp4eacU any advice would be useful!
- Don't use B moves so often. If you watch the match ALL you're doing is using Down-B, Side B, and Homing attack for your neutral game. That's REALLY bad. Try to dash dance, SHFFL, use platforms, and catch Falco while he's surprised.
- Camp platforms vs. laser pressure and react to what he does.
- Get Falco in the air or offstage and keep him there. Falco can't do anything if you juggle him with Up Airs and similar moves. If Falco is offstage it should be a free stock.
- I don't like using Down-B at early percents vs. fast fallers because it sends them no where and you're in an awkward position.
 
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Pr0fessor Flash

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- Don't use B moves so often. If you watch the match ALL you're doing is using Down-B, Side B, and Homing attack for your neutral game. That's REALLY bad. Try to dash dance, SHFFL, use platforms, and catch Falco while he's surprised.
- Camp platforms vs. laser pressure and react to what he does.
- Get Falco in the air or offstage and keep him there. Falco can't do anything if you juggle him with Up Airs and similar moves. If Falco is offstage it should be a free stock.
- I don't like using Down-B at early percents vs. fast fallers because it sends them no where and you're in an awkward position.
Thanks I'll definitely remember this for next time!
 

Croi

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How the hell do I beat Ivysaur.

I main MK, but I use Sonic for some MU's, Ivysaur among them because MK just gets eaten alive by Ivysaur's combos-into-death-at-60%. Ivysaur is invincible. She's impenetrable. How do I beat her, because I'm so far convinced it's ****ing impossible.
 

RustyPan

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I personally play the camping game against mario. Instead of shielding or contesting fireball approaches I run away or go over him and try to hit a dair since we have no really good punishing out of shield options and mario can apply a ton of shield pressure. If he camps fireballs sometimes they have enough lag for me to hit an aerial or homing attack if there are platforms. When he approaches with aerials or ground approaches without fireballs we can punish him because of our speed. It's possible to get uair strings into a kill at around 70-80 percent until he becomes too floaty. I'm working on how to edgeguard him since falling fireballs and capes are pretty safe from homing attack and even our highest priority aerials. I feel grabbing ledge is usually our best bet if he's recovering low since we can punish him if he feels like he needs to recovery on stage, possibly get an aerial on him, or best case scenario time our get up perfectly which isn't easy against mario's recovery.

I also am not a pro and this is just what works for me, but I hope it helps!
 

Espy Rose

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If Mario is spamming fireballs and you wanna punish them because he's not being clever with the timing of his spam, nair at him. Nair eats fireballs. :applejack:
 

ynglink

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Just looking for some critiquing on my Sonic gameplay. I'd also like to note that I didn't play Brawl extensively nor do I own a Wii. This makes my playtime and experience with Project M very minor, so I do not know many advanced techniques with the engine or the characters as of yet.

These videos are from the third time I've played the game.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHDQeKFY2MI
Sonic vs. Lucario

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_3_eSDENZI
Sonic vs. Shiek

I play a lot against the Lucario player as it's his game. The player playing Shiek is the first time I've done that match-up and played against that player as well.
 

Pr0fessor Flash

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My sister (Karma) asked me to post this since she doesn't have ten posts. There's a pretty sizable regional this Sunday, so if you guys could offer a bit of advice / criticism to help her prepare, it would be very much appreciated.

Karma (Sonic) vs. Smith (Toon Link)
She needs to wavedash out of side b alittle, mix up aerials after Down B The Matchup IDK I struggle with the Toon Link Matchup besides that She is pretty good

Bit off topic does she play online?
 
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Doffy

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Hi, I'm karma. Thanks very much for the advice! :> And nope, I don't play online unfortunately. why do you ask?
 
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Doffy

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Ok, again thank you very much for the advice! Btw, could I ask you a question? I know this isn't the thread for this stuff, but if I side B into a waveddash I can immediately jump-cancel grab right? I feel like I don't grab enough and I think that would be a good way to get in so I can grab.
 
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Player -0

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Ok, again thank you very much for the advice! Btw, could I ask you a question? I know this isn't the thread for this stuff, but if I side B into a waveddash I can immediately jump-cancel grab right? I feel like I don't grab enough and I think that would be a good way to get in so I can grab.
You don't need to wavedash out of Side B to JC grab. You can simply JC grab out of the Side B. Doing a wavedash has more lag than straight grab.

Edit - Watching the match because I'm bored + procrastinating. I think I've played that TLink during a dubz match lol. You guys in the lower part of NC? Also coming to SC5?

This is going to be as I go through the games so things might change as I watch/I probably won't watch all the way.

- Honestly you shouldn't be able to walk over the TLink that much (doesn't look like he knows the MU at all). Nair completely beats Sonic's spindash (which you were doing a LOT), if you ever meet a TLink doing that just play more of a dash dance game and run up shield -> OoS game. Depends really.

- Learn to edgeguard better. I'm seeing some times where you're taking the ledge but a LOT of the time you're just using the spring to attempt to gimp. This is good vs. tethers but unless you get them to tether first then they'll just Up-B instead (if this applies). If you get stuck in a habit of only using the spring then play another character casually for a bit and just work on the ledge. You're letting them to the edge for almost free, which isn't good.

- Use Spin Dash less, especially if they're punishing you for it. Use more traditional SHFFL's and dash dancing. That might just be me not liking spin dash as a move that much. Like, 10:05 you were spindashing a LOT and you jumped at the end of every spindash. You can't keep repeating the same thing like that.
* Another thing is if you get a knockdown to a tech chase then DON'T spindash. Run to a close distance (far enough so you won't get hit by a get up attack) and punish the get up option. Spindashing completely negates your chance to do this if they wait.


Overall, just work on your overall fundamentals and do less Sonic stuff. Your tech skill right now is fine.
 
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Doffy

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helpful stuff
wow, thanks for taking the time to look into the match so well. I completely see what you mean about spin-dashing too much. I had so many chances to punish with a better option like grab or at least a move that transfers into a conversion. and as far as the edgeguards go, i was just incredibly intimidated, so in my fear i opted for what i considered, at the time, a safe option. overall i'd say you hit the mark right on about everything. and to answer your question, yes, i'm from Charlotte. also i'm not exactly sure what SC5 is. is it a regional i'm not aware of?
 

mtmaster

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So I just learned that you can reverse Sonic's homing attack in the air, but can you do it on the ground as well? I ask as sometimes I will activate the homing attack and he won't home in and attack a target that is like right next time me seemingly because I am facing the wrong way. I only ask as if you can that I think I could combo into things. I'm just trying to get progressively better at using Sonic, and I keep discovering things that I didn't know when I thought I had figured out he character pretty well.
 

RustyPan

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http://www.twitch.tv/waffru/b/578576963
I played this set against Anther on netplay recently and other than one match pretty much got outplayed which is expected. What should I work on?
My match is only the first one in link, I was too lazy to find my other matches, and this set was the important one to me. Also I am not espio I'm just rocking a friend's tag.
 
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Player -0

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http://www.twitch.tv/waffru/b/578576963
I played this set against Anther on netplay recently and other than one match pretty much got outplayed which is expected. What should I work on?
My match is only the first one in link, I was too lazy to find my other matches, and this set was the important one to me. Also I am not espio I'm just rocking a friend's tag.
Some random stuff:
- Edgeguarding Pika: Take ledge -> Ledgehop Nair depending on what he does.
*If he skull bashes onto the stage ledgedash and then run D-Smash him off or do whatever you feel is best. If you expect him to skull bash to ledge, make sure you have invincibility and then either drop down a bit, DJ Bair (If you have time to space it), Up Air if he's in kill percent, or Nair if you don't have time to space.
*Pretty much same thing for QA except use mainly Nair/Up Air. You can attempt to drop down and then Nair so you cover both ledge and stage but it's a bit difficult. It doesn't always work but eh. You can attempt to down angle F-Tilt or SH Fair (so it's touching the ground) if you're body is pretty much touching the ledge to hit Pika out of QA. If you miss shield like hale or get Up Aired though.
- If you don't need to use DJ before Up-B, don't do it. Especially if you're taking ledge or Up Airing for the kill.
- You need to mess around with Pikachu's thunder more. You fell into it a Loooot. You can wait for the T1 thunder to fade using Up-B (be careful lol) or for T2 you can shield and then drop shield -> do stuff. If you can't punish T2 cleanly and you don't have a lot of experience with it. Don't do it.
- You cut some combos short, for example I saw D-Tilt -> turn around F-Tilt when you could've Side-B'ed -> HA, WD OoHA, etc.

Of course there was probably lag and stuff. I'm just giving some small ideas. Super analyzing suuucks.
 

Burning

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I'm watching a lot of these videos and I'm literally crying at how bad I am in comparison. XD
My god, guys.
 

RustyPan

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Some random stuff:
- Edgeguarding Pika: Take ledge -> Ledgehop Nair depending on what he does.
*If he skull bashes onto the stage ledgedash and then run D-Smash him off or do whatever you feel is best. If you expect him to skull bash to ledge, make sure you have invincibility and then either drop down a bit, DJ Bair (If you have time to space it), Up Air if he's in kill percent, or Nair if you don't have time to space.
*Pretty much same thing for QA except use mainly Nair/Up Air. You can attempt to drop down and then Nair so you cover both ledge and stage but it's a bit difficult. It doesn't always work but eh. You can attempt to down angle F-Tilt or SH Fair (so it's touching the ground) if you're body is pretty much touching the ledge to hit Pika out of QA. If you miss shield like hale or get Up Aired though.
- If you don't need to use DJ before Up-B, don't do it. Especially if you're taking ledge or Up Airing for the kill.
- You need to mess around with Pikachu's thunder more. You fell into it a Loooot. You can wait for the T1 thunder to fade using Up-B (be careful lol) or for T2 you can shield and then drop shield -> do stuff. If you can't punish T2 cleanly and you don't have a lot of experience with it. Don't do it.
- You cut some combos short, for example I saw D-Tilt -> turn around F-Tilt when you could've Side-B'ed -> HA, WD OoHA, etc.

Of course there was probably lag and stuff. I'm just giving some small ideas. Super analyzing suuucks.
Thanks, the lag is actually pretty not noticeable so this helps alot, I'm definitely going to give this stuff a try when I get another chance at him! The thunder hitbox is just larger than I expect every time.
 

Vultron

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Oct 1, 2014
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Me playing versus Professor Flash I L-cancel more now trust me. lol
Two of your deaths were definitely due to 3.5 changes. For the most part, it did not really look like you applied pressure like you could have. With Snake, if he can't directly hit you, he is probably going to set up a trip mine or try to tranq you. I saw a few bait and punishes, but there could have been a lot more. Also with Snake's recovery and the new Homing Attack/Blast Attack range, I think you can over power his recovery and send him flying horizontally.

Since his horizontal recovery seems week, you could SH > FAir > Double Jump > HA > FAir and then go back onto the stage.
 

N810

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Okay, I went to a decent sized tournament on Saturday, but my only game streamed was in doubles. Any general tips/advice for doubles would be great!
My match starts at 4h50m
I feel like Sonic can be one of the best doubles partner because of his speed. Sonic and focus on one fighter and do a hit-and-run on to the other fighter. Keep them guessing. There were a few times you could of been there to help out Ivy like on smashville. Also, you do play a little risky with your keep-off-stage game. I like to use the spring when they are recovering from a low angle. Works great on Marth. And try to use the neutral air attack. I love the f-air but neutral is the better option(IMO) if your on stage. Overall, solid sonic. Hope you do well moving forward.
 

Vultron

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I feel like Sonic can be one of the best doubles partner because of his speed. Sonic and focus on one fighter and do a hit-and-run on to the other fighter. Keep them guessing. There were a few times you could of been there to help out Ivy like on smashville. Also, you do play a little risky with your keep-off-stage game. I like to use the spring when they are recovering from a low angle. Works great on Marth. And try to use the neutral air attack. I love the f-air but neutral is the better option(IMO) if your on stage. Overall, solid sonic. Hope you do well moving forward.
Thanks! That was probably the second or third time doing doubles, so I didn't want to team kill (missed that mark) and try to keep everyone separate, because I know I can beat them in a singles match. Aside from not chasing them off stage, any advice on me to play safer?
 
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