_Kadaj_
Smash Hero
lol not to see if its viable to play.
I wouldnt go ic's tho i only use them in friendlies
I wouldnt go ic's tho i only use them in friendlies
-
Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
Better chain grab with Fsmash incorporated
- Thread starter _Kadaj_
- Start date
I cant go OoS. People know it in montreal lol. And its a shame lol.
_Kadaj_
Smash Hero
that sucksmaybe i can come up their for an event
DemonicTrilogy
Smash Lord
I believe this tactic is still viable. I don't really see how there is a loophole in this swordgard.
You back throw, you footstool, and then you Ice Block. In that first phase, the only way that someone can DI is via the Ice Block. However, that distance that the person gains is so miniscule that it wouldn't help them much in avoiding your grab. The Ice Climber's walking speed is faster than it should be for this leaving you time to wait before the person's invincibility frames from the footstool get up animation to grab them. The Back throw footstool part makes this grab viable to be an infinite since you don't need much area to do this since you footstool right after the backthrow making it so that this only requires about 5 character lengths even if you include a person's Smash DI from the Ice Block. If they SDI toward you during the Ice Block after the back throw footstool, the natural character force that keeps foreign characters from being on top of you will prevent him from getting across you. Him SDIing toward you would actually help you since it doesn't require as much Slide from nana since you don't have to walk as far. More walking for Popo is all the SDI from the Ice Block can do...
Nana footstooling to the fsmash won't leave much of a delay because an aerial footstool shouldn't give you any more air than a normal shorthop on the ground. If Popo uses Ice Block and continues walking toward the oponnent while they are getting up, Nana will have enough time to land the vertical distance while the invisible box that surrounds Popo that keep's Nana from exceeding a certain horizontal range will help he get to you while you are walking since the box moves with Popo. By the time the person starts the animation, Nana will be able to start a forward smash and the invisible box of sync around Popo will continue sliding Nana until she is directly on top of Popo.
The second phase of it is Nana releasing the charging the smash to the grab during hitlag. SDI only can change the trajectory of the hitstun AFTER the hitlag. If the person is grabbed during the hitlag, they can't do anything to stop this since they are frozen in this position until they recieve the knockback portion of the attack. Nana's Fsmash slide makes it so that if you are walking max speed to grab someone who SDIed away from you after the Ice Block, the fsmash hitbox will hit right where Popo is when he stops to wait for a grab because the sliding continues during the whole smash's animation giving it more range then where it was released.
I believe that you should actually learn your stuff swordgard. Though you may know much after writing those DI guides, you have to understand that DI can only help in trajectory proportional to the knockback of the attack and only helps greatly when you are knocked into the air. Since the Ice Block lock that this sequence does keeps the opponent grounded, the amount of movement gained from DI would be very little since the ice block's knockback is little in knockback and since you have barely any air time during the time you are flopping on the ground for that one instant. Since hitlag can't be affected by DI whatsoever, your SDIing of Fsmash is flawed. You could only move during hitlag during SSB64.
This CG is very useful because it gives so much damage output so it doesn't take as much time (allowing you to speed grab from 0-death before something like a naturaly hazard gets in the way), isn't affect by a platform, and saves you the trouble of perfectly timing your regrabs in a normal Cging sequence.
You back throw, you footstool, and then you Ice Block. In that first phase, the only way that someone can DI is via the Ice Block. However, that distance that the person gains is so miniscule that it wouldn't help them much in avoiding your grab. The Ice Climber's walking speed is faster than it should be for this leaving you time to wait before the person's invincibility frames from the footstool get up animation to grab them. The Back throw footstool part makes this grab viable to be an infinite since you don't need much area to do this since you footstool right after the backthrow making it so that this only requires about 5 character lengths even if you include a person's Smash DI from the Ice Block. If they SDI toward you during the Ice Block after the back throw footstool, the natural character force that keeps foreign characters from being on top of you will prevent him from getting across you. Him SDIing toward you would actually help you since it doesn't require as much Slide from nana since you don't have to walk as far. More walking for Popo is all the SDI from the Ice Block can do...
Nana footstooling to the fsmash won't leave much of a delay because an aerial footstool shouldn't give you any more air than a normal shorthop on the ground. If Popo uses Ice Block and continues walking toward the oponnent while they are getting up, Nana will have enough time to land the vertical distance while the invisible box that surrounds Popo that keep's Nana from exceeding a certain horizontal range will help he get to you while you are walking since the box moves with Popo. By the time the person starts the animation, Nana will be able to start a forward smash and the invisible box of sync around Popo will continue sliding Nana until she is directly on top of Popo.
The second phase of it is Nana releasing the charging the smash to the grab during hitlag. SDI only can change the trajectory of the hitstun AFTER the hitlag. If the person is grabbed during the hitlag, they can't do anything to stop this since they are frozen in this position until they recieve the knockback portion of the attack. Nana's Fsmash slide makes it so that if you are walking max speed to grab someone who SDIed away from you after the Ice Block, the fsmash hitbox will hit right where Popo is when he stops to wait for a grab because the sliding continues during the whole smash's animation giving it more range then where it was released.
I believe that you should actually learn your stuff swordgard. Though you may know much after writing those DI guides, you have to understand that DI can only help in trajectory proportional to the knockback of the attack and only helps greatly when you are knocked into the air. Since the Ice Block lock that this sequence does keeps the opponent grounded, the amount of movement gained from DI would be very little since the ice block's knockback is little in knockback and since you have barely any air time during the time you are flopping on the ground for that one instant. Since hitlag can't be affected by DI whatsoever, your SDIing of Fsmash is flawed. You could only move during hitlag during SSB64.
This CG is very useful because it gives so much damage output so it doesn't take as much time (allowing you to speed grab from 0-death before something like a naturaly hazard gets in the way), isn't affect by a platform, and saves you the trouble of perfectly timing your regrabs in a normal Cging sequence.
False, you can SDI the ice block and DI it. You can go as far as 2/5th of FD if you do perfect SDI, a normal person can do 2-3 inputs, which is 1/4th of FD. 2nd you wont be fast enough if they do 3 SDI and you walk. They can still get past you, i tried and did it a few times in trianing, its easy. SDI is not a change of trajectory man, learn your stuff yourself. I wrote a 6000 words guide on this. They cant still get to the ledge. You sdi DURING hitlag. Hitstun comes after, you can only DI during hitstun. Its the SDI here that causes problem. SDI is a transition, not a change of trajectory. The smash will still hit if you walk, if it does after the grab as some people suggested, it will grab break. If it does before, you can SDI. Please, dont argue with me on this or il start being an *** about it.
You dont know your stuff, get over it.
Il show you videos of SDI over and over if you dont agree.
This is even worst on a platform, you can SDI to its side within 1 or MAYBE at worst 2 grabs.
DemonicTrilogy
Smash Lord
Look, it doesnt matter, its the way it works, reread what i said. You are wrong, you can SDI out of it. Move on now, this topic should have been ended long ago.
EDIT: I said i would be an *** after that if you continue, right now, i am answering with straightforward facts.
EDIT: I said i would be an *** after that if you continue, right now, i am answering with straightforward facts.
DemonicTrilogy
Smash Lord
Unless you can show me that this miracle distant SDI from ice block is possible through a video or something of that sort. I stand my ground in this discussion.
7 frames of hitlag. Do you at least admit you can SDI during any attack?
EDIT: Look, i have designed this way of getting out of the chaingrab because someone asked me to. Im not gonna prove it in a vid again. Unless more people ask for it.
Heres a slight preview of how it looks like. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lq2S4_EkN1w . Its the same principle, but easier and on a smaller hit. You SDI during hitlag.
DemonicTrilogy
Smash Lord
3 SDI inputs can't carry you that far. Since you don't need to walk at the max speed when the person doesn't DI at all, the Ice Climber can just walk at the max speed to chase the opponent while nana is sliding proportional to your speed. ALso, who said you can't input a run for Popo while Nana is charging?
3 SDI+ normal DI do, and it doesnt change the fact that as soon as you can go behind someone, well you basically made the grab no longer infinite. The smash can also be SDIed, making it useless, therefore. Either A) it works a few times until the edge and deals little damage.
B) It works with smash once for surprise, 2nd time they SDI out.
DemonicTrilogy
Smash Lord
If they go behind you with this SDI and DI, Nana won't have to slide as much and there is such a big delay for the person to get up from the lock that the Popo will have enough time to react to this. Also, you grab DURING the hitlag of the smash so that means that the person can't input SDI for 7 frames, only a fraction of them since the Popo grabs during the hitlag. Since the grab range is enough if the Popo is standing right next to the opponent, this still is a true infinite.
_Kadaj_
Smash Hero
if you guys didn't read what i said you can grab right before the smash connects as well making it impossible to DI because you cant DI a grab
DemonicTrilogy
Smash Lord
Swordgard was right that the smash would do a grab break. Nana can only do a non-grab break smash with an uncharged one. If it is charged, it has the potential to break the grab. We are arguing, though, on the iceblock and other portions of the sequence though...
I gotta admit, i was surprised too by how far the SDI sends you , but its because of 2 things.
Not only do you SDI 3 times, but holding the direction provokes regular DI in that direction on the next frame and ASDI on that frame too. Whatsover, as soon as you can move behind the other or forward, you can get out of it. Making it useless compared to infinites.
DemonicTrilogy
Smash Lord
If they go behind, Popo walks to the getting up opponent while Nana slides with Popo and switches directions while charging the Fsmash. You can get as far away from them if you go behind since part of the distance is taken away by needing to go around them. Walking more is all they need to do.
Edit: I had to correct my own mistake in this last post
KarateF22
Smash Journeyman
Hobbling can infinite due to the fact that you can push your opponent along the ground away from the ledge by walking against them while their getting up invincibility is wearing off before you grab on the rebound grab. If they smash DI behind you it basically helps you and is pointless because then you dont even have to move. True, at high percents the greater pushback of ice blocks make them able to escape... but typically not past 100% at which they are basically toast anyways.
DemonicTrilogy
Smash Lord
What swordgard and I are arguing is about how SDIing the Ice block and the Fsmash hitlag can do in escaping this sequence. I understand that the ledge isn't a true way of escaping since if he DI's toward it while in front of you, your backthrow footstool to the Ice Block lock puts him back to square one and if he SDI's behind you toward the ledge behind you, you can turn around and backthrow to the footstool to once again nullify that distance.