Best moves of each type

[Xamad]

(and probably makes you a nice sandwich while it's at it).

Considering it's a giant butcher knife I wouldn't be surprised if it did.

 

[Megamang]

Limit Break's expiration doesn't make Limit Cross Slash not top 10, it makes it not busted beyond belief. If there was no limit mechanic, LCS would chain into itself for guaranteed hits on shield.

 

[Deleted member]

has one of the best fairs in the game. I'd say it's the absolute best if 's wasn't standing as competition.

 

[Megamang]

Cloud's fair is pretty bonkers. Especially since in limit, one fair on your shield and LCS is curtains.

 

[Kofu]

has one of the best fairs in the game. I'd say it's the absolute best if 's wasn't standing as competition.

Eh, it has its fair () share of issues that hinder it. It's low damage, doesn't kill, is laggy offstage, doesn't autocancel (at least for standard size, don't remember if it does for small size), and is reflectable (obviously). That said, it's very nice for spacing as its low landing lag and pushback generally make it safe on shield, and it's transcendent so it can't be blocked by stray hitboxes.

 

[HoSmash4]

I'd put sonic fsmash near the top, not sure why its not been listed

 

[Djmarcus44]

Kofu , Gunner's fair is definitely the best fair in the game because it does so much more than spacing (it is also the best fair at spacing). Although you are right about Gunner's fair having low damage and killing ability, Gunner's fair combos into many of Gunner's moves (these combos are listed in the mii gunner true combo and follow up thread) and it sets up for a kill with charge blast. It also allows Gunner to gundash for a good boost in mobility (it allows gunner to move at the speed of a falcon kick without any landing lag) that also helps Gunner land and recover. The mobility from Gundashing is also good for juggling opponents and extending follow up strings. Although Mii Gunner's fair is laggy offstage, it is good for edgeguarding a high recovery due to its range. It also covers every ledge option when timed properly.

@Feelicks, can you explain why Diddy Kong's fair is better than Gunner's fair?

 

[Deleted member]

Kofu , Gunner's fair is definitely the best fair in the game because it does so much more than spacing (it is also the best fair at spacing). Although you are right about Gunner's fair having low damage and killing ability, Gunner's fair combos into many of Gunner's moves (these combos are listed in the mii gunner true combo and follow up thread) and it sets up for a kill with charge blast. It also allows Gunner to gundash for a good boost in mobility (it allows gunner to move at the speed of a falcon kick without any landing lag) that also helps Gunner land and recover. The mobility from Gundashing is also good for juggling opponents and extending follow up strings. Although Mii Gunner's fair is laggy offstage, it is good for edgeguarding a high recovery due to its range. It also covers every ledge option when timed properly.

@Feelicks, can you explain why Diddy Kong's fair is better than Gunner's fair?

Diddy's fair can afford to make trades with a whole lot of moves, and is usually very safe to throw out especially if autocanceled. It also does a decent 10% even if there is staling to be accounted for. It can also kill decently well offstage with Rage at least.

I wouldn't say it's really better than Gunner's anymore for the reasons you listed. Your posts are always very insightful.

 

[Indigo_]

Zard's new Back air is undoubtedly one of the strongest in the game. Good frames, Great damage, great KB, great range, fair end lag,

 

[arbustopachon]

While it is undoubtely one of zard's best moves alongside jab and u-smash, im not sure i would call it one of the best bairs. It's startup is kinda slow, it doesn't really have the best Faf, its atuocancel window sucks and if you don't sweetspot it its hella unsafe on shield (granted the sweetspot is giant but still). It is still a good aerial overall tho.
Speaking of zard, u-smash is bonkers. frame 7, pretty big disjoint, first hit jab locks, each hit has a total of 5 active frames, has a faf of 49 and kills reasonably well. Plus you can set it up at low to mid percents out of a u-tilt or uair.

 

[san.]

Eh, it has its fair () share of issues that hinder it. It's low damage, doesn't kill, is laggy offstage, doesn't autocancel (at least for standard size, don't remember if it does for small size), and is reflectable (obviously). That said, it's very nice for spacing as its low landing lag and pushback generally make it safe on shield, and it's transcendent so it can't be blocked by stray hitboxes.

This. It's good on standard size, top 10 maybe but nothing more than that IMO. It's excellent on small size, however, living up to the hype. The landing lag goes from 12 to like 9, allowing fair to become safe on perfect shield. It also shaves off plenty of endlag and autocancel frames.

 

[Kofu]

This. It's good on standard size, top 10 maybe but nothing more than that IMO. It's excellent on small size, however, living up to the hype. The landing lag goes from 12 to like 9, allowing fair to become safe on perfect shield. It also shaves off plenty of endlag and autocancel frames.

Yeah, I've mainly been playing with standard Gunner where the move is definitely good but not the best. When I use it with small Gunner I'm a lot more impressed by it, largely thanks to the boost in mobility.

I also think it merits comparison with Villager's FAir. While Villager's FAir is slightly slower to come out, decays worse with distance (and I believe has less range), and can be beaten by lingering hitboxes, I find it far better in advantageous situations. It autocancels from a short hop and has a much better FAF, which allows for better pressure, especially offstage. I find its horizontal launch angle better for followups and it can kill outright.

The main advantages I see with Gunner's FAir are the lower landing lag and pushback (making it safer on shield) along with its transcendent properties.

 

[Djmarcus44]

This. It's good on standard size, top 10 maybe but nothing more than that IMO. It's excellent on small size, however, living up to the hype. The landing lag goes from 12 to like 9, allowing fair to become safe on perfect shield. It also shaves off plenty of endlag and autocancel frames.

Yeah, I've mainly been playing with standard Gunner where the move is definitely good but not the best. When I use it with small Gunner I'm a lot more impressed by it, largely thanks to the boost in mobility.

I also think it merits comparison with Villager's FAir. While Villager's FAir is slightly slower to come out, decays worse with distance (and I believe has less range), and can be beaten by lingering hitboxes, I find it far better in advantageous situations. It autocancels from a short hop and has a much better FAF, which allows for better pressure, especially offstage. I find its horizontal launch angle better for followups and it can kill outright.

The main advantages I see with Gunner's FAir are the lower landing lag and pushback (making it safer on shield) along with its transcendent properties.

Gunner fair is already safe on shield without the pushback, and it is safe on perfect shielding with decent spacing for standard size Gunner. The main hype about Gunner's fair comes from the many things that it does other than spacing (The mobility boosts of Gundashing helps Gunner in every state of the game. Gunner's fair also combos into many of Gunner's moves). You guys are right about Gunner's fair when using movesets with Grenade, missile and/or bomb, but Gunner's fair is much more useful for 1111 Gunner. Since grenades, missiles, and bombs are already good projectiles that allow Gunner to combo into other moves, fair isn't as useful with those projectiles since Gunner doesn't have to use fair to start combos as often (since bomb drop is such a good landing tool, Gunner also doesn't have to use gundashing as often for landing). Also Gunner's grenades make fair less useful in the neutral since grenades are very safe on perfect shield. On the other hand, 1111 gunner has to rely more on fair because 1111 doesn't have those options that are provided by Gunner's better movesets. Also, the ability for Gunner to combo into charge blast from fair gives Gunner's fair more synergy with the 1111 moveset.

 

[Rhinomaster22]

Best Jab: Comes out at frame 1.
Best Dash Attack: Good surprise tool. Multiple hit boxes making it hard to punish out of shield.
Best Forward Tilt: Comes out very fast and surprisingly very strong. sends opponents offstage at a bad angle making characters like with bad recoveries into bad situation to most likely not recover.
Best Down Tilt: Down tilt can set up for a grab, an up smash, and comes out very fast being able to chain from itself. Sliding kicks that lower that frames of these two being able to dodge most projectiles. Can hit opponent recovering low at the edge and sending opponents up for up airs (mostly for Cloud though.)
Best Up Tilt: All around good combo starters that can lead into strong moves.
Best Up Smash: Invincibility, good range, very fast, and hard to punish due to low endlag and shield stun.
Best Forward Smash: Super armor, very quick, and can be angled to break shields or act as a up smash.
Best Down Smash Kills at the edge because of the angle, gimping tool for bad recoveries, and sets up for edge-guard situations.
Best Neutral Air: Covers his entire body, comes out very quickly, decent damage, can be use for offstage gimping, and auto cancels very easily. honorable mention as these neutral airs are great sex kicks to break combo and lead into finishers.
Best Forward Air: Great spike. Infamously strong finisher. Combo tool. Spacing.
Best Up Air: Can be use for juggling, frame trapping, combos into Finishing Touch, and auto cancels from a short hop. Hella knockback and combos from down throw. expect 20 up airs before you land.
Best Down Air: Combos into almost anything, beats out most moves in the game, and a combo breaker. Great spikes in general.
Best Back Air: Can be combo off Sonic's infamous spin dash Invincibility at start Among the strongest back airs in the game killing extremely early and coming out fast.
Best Neutral B: Covers all four get up options. Paralyzer. And powerful bite at the end killing very early.
Best Up B: You'll pretty much never die if your teching skill is on point. You'll always return from anywhere on and off the stage. Easily one of the best combo starters in the game and can combo into kill confirms. Not as combo oriented as but very strong finishers.
Best Down B counter: Nerfed but still kills ridiculously early off of most moves.
Best Down B in general: They don't call it a spin dash for nothing. If you actually land Finishing Touch their gonna die (Grounded... still kills in the air but needs 5-10% more percent.)
Best Side B: Need I say more? Great approach option, fastest move speed wise and combo into any aerial Sonic has. Great mix up tool and assist recovering.
Grab: One of the longest pivot grabs in the game. Grapples from ludicrously long range.
Pummel: Fastest in the game. Most damage in the game.
Best Kill Throw: Best back kill throw. Best up kill throw. Best forward kill throw.
Best Combo Throw: Combos from wide ranges and sets up into finishers.
Best Z-Air: Only characters that have tethers and they all function the same.

Edit: Finished

 

[ElectroLightning]

What about we make a character with the best moves of each character? So the community's character could have Mac's F Tilt and Corrin's Up Tilt. I think that would be so interesting. An idea:
Sheik Needles, Sonic Spin Dash, Bayo Witch Twist, and Diddy Kong Banana Peel.

 

[ARGHETH]

What about we make a character with the best moves of each character? So the community's character could have Mac's F Tilt and Corrin's Up Tilt. I think that would be so interesting. An idea:
Sheik Needles, Sonic Spin Dash, Bayo Witch Twist, and Corrin Dragon Surge.

You mean Counter Surge? Because I'd take Bouncing Fish/Flip Jump/ Banana Peel/Witch Time any day.

 

[ElectroLightning]

You mean Counter Surge? Because I'd take Bouncing Fish/Flip Jump/ Banana Peel/Witch Time any day.

You know those are 4 Down Specials...

 

[ARGHETH]

You know those are 4 Down Specials...

Yeah...I'd take any of those four over Counter Surge.

 

[ElectroLightning]

Yeah...I'd take any of those four over Counter Surge.

They actually didn't come to mind. Should have remembered Banana Peel.

 

[Matt11111]

You mean Counter Surge? Because I'd take Bouncing Fish/Flip Jump/ Banana Peel/Witch Time any day.

I hope Smash 5 lets you create the ultimate fighter.

 

[ぱみゅ]

Then people would ban people from using it just like they banned Miis

 

[Matt11111]

Then people would ban people from using it just like they banned Miis

Fair.

But just imagine if you could take any move from the history of Smash Bros, and give them to your character.

 

[Ninety]

Fair.

But just imagine if you could take any move from the history of Smash Bros, and give them to your character.

BLIP INTENSIFIES

 

[ElectroLightning]

Melee Falco Dair and Shine anyone?

 

[jet56]

this is me speaking from experience here, but should be rated #1 for best jab. It is frame 1, has insane priority and range, combos into a ton of stuff (dtilt, up B are the most common and useful ones.) and can be used to stuff approaches entirely. It is one of the safest jabs to throw out in the game, and grants some of the most reward (combos, kill setups, etc.)

Also, his Utilt is easily top 5, i daresay #3. It comes out frame 4 (find me 5 other utilts that come out that fast, i dare you) lasts 7 frames, can be used out of PP, can be spaced, used safely in neutral, is a great antiair (this move also has dumb priority and range) and combo's into itself, turnaround Dtilt and jab at low percents, upsmash and JC upsmash at mid percents, Up B at high percents (which can kill at certain percents) and even Up Angled Fsmash in some cases. to top it off, it covers his whole Body, both in front and behind him, and the end lag on it is so small, that you can safely hit someones shield with the backside of Utilt and be completely safe (which can be done easily with a PP in neutral.) Did i also mention its super easy to cover landings with this move (imagine ZSS utilt, but more ground speed.)

Also, his Up B is being well overlooked, because of its poor recovery for mac. I find it one of his best specials for a multitude of reasons. First off, it kills at 100-120% on the whole roster (that's boost kick levels of kill power). Second, it has kill setups (utilt, Dtilt, Jab) which are easy to get. 3rd, it is invincible on frame 1 and the hitbox comes out frame 3, while also having a disjoint so large it outranges mac's jab (and a lot of other jabs and tilts as well.) it serves as one of the best OoS options in the game, with some of the best kill power for an up B, with the best frame data, as well as invincibility frames, that is ridiculously easy to set up into. why this move has not even been mentioned is beyond me. I would put it in the top 10, not the best, but it offers way too much to mac to be overlooked just because of the height it gains.

 

[ARGHETH]

It comes out frame 4 (find me 5 other utilts that come out that fast, i dare you)

Challenge accepted.
F3: (also Luma, but IDK if that counts) (Note: For Ryu, it's Light Utilt, obviously)
F4:

Top 5 is plausible; The F3 crew are probably better, while the F4s are debatable.

 

[jet56]

Challenge accepted.
F3: (also Luma, but IDK if that counts) (Note: For Ryu, it's Light Utilt, obviously)
F4:

Top 5 is plausible; The F3 crew are probably better, while the F4s are debatable.

Winner! TBH i was just too lazy to look it up LOL. im not really gonna argue the F3 tilts. But i feel it is up there over the F4 tilts, as in general mac's tilt has more uses than their's does and much more utility.

 

[Kofu]

Winner! TBH i was just too lazy to look it up LOL. im not really gonna argue the F3 tilts. But i feel it is up there over the F4 tilts, as in general mac's tilt has more uses than their's does and much more utility.

Kirby's UTilt is really good too. Lucas's is probably worse than Mac's but is decent and ROB's has... vertical range? It's not great.

 

[ぱみゅ]

More utility than Fox's and Kirby's Utilt? Sounds ludicrous.
Also, Ryu's is possibly the very best of the bunch.

 

[Mario766]

Fox's up-tilt has more utility than Mac's up-tilt.


Does Mac's up-tilt cover ledge get-up options, catch 2 frames ON the ledge, and lead into itself and up-airs for massive percent?

I didn't think so.

The only up-tilt in that group that is close to Fox's is Ryu, because lol TSRK.

 

[ぱみゅ]

Don't forget it also sets up for more L-Utilt, H-Utilt, Nair, Fair, Dair (for a gruesome spike) and maybe more.

 

[Funbot28]

Down B:

Up B:

Side B:

I think Bayonetta should be added to all of these categories imo. The nerfs may make it look less evident, but she still retains all the amazing effects of these moves. Here is what I would change:

Down B:
(-)

Up B:
(-)

Side B:
(-)

 

[Rhinomaster22]

I think Bayonetta should be added to all of these categories imo. The nerfs may make it look less evident, but she still retains all the amazing effects of these moves. Here is what I would change:

Down B:
(-)

Up B:
(-)

Side B:
(-)

Where's Cloud's side b that move is ridiculous. Super low ending lag, covers get up and jump, kills solidly, and a great edge-guarding tool.

 

[Aninymouse]

I'm gonna say that Mewtwo still has the best Fair in the game. Before, it might have been Sheik, but Sheik's Fair received that range nerf...

 

[ARGHETH]

Where's Cloud's side b that move is ridiculous. Super low ending lag, covers get up and jump, kills solidly, and a great edge-guarding tool.

Corrin's Side-B should be somewhere on that list too.

 

[bc1910]

I think should be in consideration for Dash Attack and Up Smash.

Post-buff, Greninja's dash attack has the lowest total frames of any dash attack in the game. With 6f of startup and fairly low ending lag, it's a very useful ground button that's pretty much safe against anything except a point-blank shield. It combos into Fair at low percents and continues to 50/50 into Fair or delayed Fair/Usmash at higher percents, so its reward on hit is great. It's definitely better than Peach's and a couple of others listed there.

Up Smash is simply a very powerful, fairly fast KO tool that deals 19% sweetspotted which makes it excellent in juggle situations. It's rare for a move that powerful to hit directly above your head so fast. It's also disjointed and easy to sweetspot since the initial hit has 5 active frames.

Greninja's Fair is really good as well but I don't think it's necessarily better than any of the ones listed.

 

[Jamurai]

Interesting topic. Made a list while bored at work. Top five for each move are ordered, the rest are unordered honourable mentions. I'll elaborate on anything if anyone asks, too much to say otherwise.

Stuff to note: Bairs are generally really good moves which is why I mentioned so many, and a lot of characters have a similar Nair (ie. the classic sex kick) which made it difficult to not include a lot. Dairs and Dsmashes are generally kinda meh which is why D3 is even present in this post.

Jab: ...
Dash attack: ...

Ftilt: ...
Utilt: ...
Dtilt: ...

Nair: ...
Fair: ...
Uair: ...
Dair: ...
Bair: ...

Fsmash: ...
Usmash: ...
Dsmash: ...

Neutral-B: ... (3)
Side-B: ... (3)
Up-B: ... (2)
Down-B: (2) ...

Might edit with throws later.

 

[Dee-SmashinBoss]

What about Kirbys Dtilt and Dair? Those at worst deserve to be honorable mentions.

 

[Jamurai]

I forgot about his Dair, good point. I don't think his Dtilt is in the same class as those I mentioned though.

 

[adom4]

Ganon's Ftilt should definitely be there, good range, stupidly strong, great angle and while it's not the fastest tilt it's not so slow so that it hinders it that much.