BBR MU thread v3

#HBC | Scary

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#1
Hey everyone, I'm Ed and will be co-leading your character’s panel for the BBR Match-Up Chart v3 alongside Aerodrome. This is the thread you get to suggest people to me for the panel and where I'll keep you updated on what's going on.

The current panelists for this panel are:

Me
Aero
Kyokoro
DM

We are limited to five panelists for this project, and are looking for active and knowledgeable members of the character community to help fill our remaining openings. Keep in mind that the above list is not a finalized one and can be edited. If you would like to join the panel for this character, please make a post demonstrating your interest in this thread, along with what would make you a desirable panelist. Keep in mind that debating skills are important for all panel members, and those with poor behavior will be ejected from the project if complaints arise.

If you have any questions or concerns regarding this panel or its activities, feel free to post them in this thread. You may also PM me or Ish if you would rather speak to one of us privately. Panelist selections will be finalized in a week or two, at which point we will begin discussing which match-ups to change in the panelist subforum.

So yeah, ask away/present cases for you to be admitted!

Begin!
 

BJN39

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#3
Cool, it's finally up.

Hmm, I'd like to nominate mocha, unless they're (is Mocha a girl or a boy? IDK sorry) too busy.
 

Alacion

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#4
Does Mocha even play anymore? I'd prefer Fuujin but he's banned.

Matchups like DK, Peach, PT, Yoshi, Falcon, Puff, and Ganon need to be discussed/reevaluated. (+, -, +, -, -, -, -, in my opinion, respectively)
 

BJN39

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#5
Does Mocha even play anymore? I'd prefer Fuujin but he's banned.

Matchups like DK, Peach, PT, Yoshi, Falcon, Puff, and Ganon need to be discussed/reevaluated. (+, -, +, -, -, -, -, in my opinion, respectively)
I agree fuujin knows a lot of Zelda MU material, but when he's not being helpful, he's being inappropriate or putting some MUs difficulty out of proportion sometimes. Which is kinda disrespectful.

Also, I think Samus, ZSS, and Link should be discussed. (I believe they should be +, +, +, respectively.) I also agree PT should too.
 

Alacion

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#8
No I think it needs to increase by one rank. That post was probably unclear. IMO she has no positive MUs.

:phone:
 

Alacion

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#10
Well I'm not sure how well I can actually contribute to MUs but excessive optimism that is usually seen from Zeldas is something I want to balance out with some negativity.

At the very least, the top Ganondorf thinks the matchup with Zelda is even x_x
 

KuroganeHammer

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#11
Aero, stole this current panel list from you in the back room. Any objections?!!
No objections, sir!

So yeah, we're looking for one person.

All nominations will be thoroughly considered, and while you can nominate for yourself, try to nominate someone else also so that we don't have 20 people nominating themselves.

Good luck, smashers! :)
 

Alacion

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#13
Oh god this will not end well. *drops out*

I can't bear to see ROB being a +1 and Snake and MK drop to -2s.

:phone:
 

Mocha

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#15
Yes, I'm a girl, and yes I still play lol. But my last offline tournament was at WHOBO 4 (few months ago), so eh, I need to go to another tournament again soon.

I'd love to help out, just let me know what I can do to help, guys (:
 

Alacion

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#17
Well good luck. I'm honestly not happy how this gets so much attention but everything else I've ever tried is completely ignored.
I hope the other matchup people don't bend to the thoughts of the Zelda panel.

:phone:
 

BJN39

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#18
Oh god this will not end well. *drops out*

I can't bear to see ROB being a +1 and Snake and MK drop to -2s.

:phone:
Don't forget, the other side has to agree, and we need decent evidence.

But lol I don't think any zelda player believes MK/Snake are -2s. :p
 

Mocha

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#21
Zelda's match-ups are nothing to be optimistic about, but then again, we can't just be like 'Oh this is utterly hopeless, just go MK' either. Rather than that, we need to focus on the things we can do to make the match-up not as bad. I also really think it would be a good idea to make a list of Zelda's best out of shield options for a lot of moves in the game. I remember we had a thread like that at the time.
 

Alacion

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#23
Lol... how many times has somebody mentioned to do something but never delivered? Like... what happened to that guide that was going to cover every single one of Zelda's MUs? What about the huge Peach discussion we were supposed to have but I ended up being the only person to say anything? What happened to updating the tournament thread for Fuujin? The list goes on and on.

I doubt anybody is more busy than I am anyway. I take 7 day classes, 1 night class, and I work part time. In the end, actions speak louder than words and it seems nobody really cares about this character. If that's not the case, then show it! The Zelda boards are the second least active boards on this site (after Samus). I used to care a lot for the boards, which is why I bit my tongue when pretty much nobody helped me with the guide and matchup thread but I could only endure it for so long. I thought very often to have my threads deleted. I try to give critiques and such, but they remain ignored. I guess nobody can relate but hey I don't main Zelda so why should I care any longer? At least the Peaches don't treat me like an outcast.
 

Mocha

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#24
Fair enough, I still have a couple of things I have yet to do for Smashboards, which include:

- Finish the Zelda Friend Finder page
- In-depth MU discussion of Peach
- Upload videos of me and Ed

I will honestly say this - I'm pretty busy myself with my own schedule, but I still find time to juggle school and staff duties on All is Brawl. I've also found myself distancing away from SWF, partly because the Zelda boards have died, and I haven't found the motivation to attempt to revive them yet. Also, I can't be the only one wanting to revive the Zelda boards. I need people to work with me here.

And I don't know who's treating you like an outcast, but I can't remember me ever ignoring you about anything. If I have, then it's probably due to me being afk from the site in general, not anything personal against anyone.
 

#HBC | Scary

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#25
That's generally my problem. I'm working my job and doing school as well. October I was working two jobs lol.

I won't lie, I'd love to do many a thing for our board but now finding the time is tough.

I usually valued your work but I never posted too much bud. I never saw attempts to outcast ya, just general deadness, which happens. Just gotta bear it until there's more activity or more motivation.

EDIT: Still can't wait to see those vids lmao!
 

ぱみゅ

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#26
Took me a while to respond, sorry if this is unnecessary bumping.

Well I'm not sure how well I can actually contribute to MUs but excessive optimism that is usually seen from Zeldas is something I want to balance out with some negativity.

At the very least, the top Ganondorf thinks the matchup with Zelda is even x_x
That negativity would probably be my job, I've been doing some pre-writeups and I noticed some of them look too bad for Zelda, so... They will most likely be evened/stabilized/completed by the rest of the panelists. ;)

Fair enough, I still have a couple of things I have yet to do for Smashboards, which include:

- Finish the Zelda Friend Finder page
- In-depth MU discussion of Peach
- Upload videos of me and Ed.
I was wroking on a Stage guide/trick compendium, but I never finished it.
Actually I don't even remember where I stored it... or if I still have it stored or I deleted it...
 

ぱみゅ

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#28
I'm not sure if it would be correct to do so....
I will but you (you all) have to promise not to debate about it, at least not yet. There are some MUs I'm uncertain of, and I am confident other panelists will have a better opinion than mine on them.

Right now, my list would look more or less like this:
-4: :olimar:
-3.5: :metaknight::popo:
-3: :snake::marth::zerosuitsamus::wolf::gw:
-2.5: :diddy::falco::fox::peach:
-2: :pikachu2::wario::dedede::toonlink:?:dk2::lucario::pit::rob::kirby2:?:sheik:
-1.5: :sonic:?:pt:?:samus2:?
-1: :ike:?:yoshi2::ness2::lucas:
±0: :bowser2:??:jigglypuff::link2:
+1: :mario2::falcon::ganondorf:
 

#HBC | Scary

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#29
Oh boy..... We will clash quite a bit. I already see it.

We'll have some fun debating this. I just gotta have all my opinions ready.

This makes me wonder as well, riot!! Namesearch this because I've always wondered what you thought of MUs and stuff.
 

Alacion

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#31
I don't really like those decimals, primarily for the reason that they won't exist and you'll be forced to adjust them.

Also, I'll argue once I"m home from school since I disagree with a LOT of those matchups.

-4 :metaknight: :olimar:
-3 :popo: :snake: :marth: :zerosuitsamus: :gw: :falco: :peach:
-2.5 (unsure): :fox: :diddy:
-2: :lucario: :pit: :kirby2: :pikachu2: :wario: :dedede: :toonlink: :samus2: :yoshi2: :sonic: :wolf: :link2:
-1: :rob: :sheik: :ike: :pt: :ness2: :lucas: :jigglypuff: :dk2: :mario2: :luigi2:
0: :bowser2: :falcon:
1: :ganondorf:

Probably missing some, but meh.
 

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#32
Actually, our MUs don't look too different, except for ROB, Sheik and Mario.
As for my decimals, I used them mostly because I don't mind if they go up or down... Actually, you could take everyone in -2.33 and add them to -2, and get the -2.66 to -2.5 and our lists would be pretty much the same... *proceeds to do so*

But yeah, I don't think we should be discussing them right now, although I would love to be enlightened with the matchups I'm not familiar with and stuff.
 

Alacion

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#33
We can start with Puff since it's the easiest to justify. I have pretty good MU experience with this.

Puff has better mobility than Zelda. Puff will find landing the first [few] hits easier than Zelda trying to do so. Once Puff has the percent lead, the optimal way for her to play is to escape with her superior mobility. With Puff's lingering, aerial hitboxes (primarily bair, fair, uair, and aerial Pound), cancelling Din's is easier than with most other characters. Then, all Puff needs to do is to time Zelda out. The stagelist also favours timing Zelda out with multiple stages that help avoid reaching the ledge grab limit (ie. Battleship Halberd, Delfino Plaza). With the Japanese stagelist, Final Destination and Smashville also greatly help Puff's timing out strategies.

Zelda can hope for an up air or a couple Din's at best, but they're both heavily predictable and shouldn't really land.

In actual practice, the top Puff and Zelda played each other at Apex. In the Puff/Zelda matchup only, Puff won two straight games in a row.

So in theory and in practice, I think the matchup is definitely -1 Zelda/+1 Puff.

Of course, if Puff doesn't time Zelda out, the matchup could be even but Puff should never be on the offensive against Zelda.
 

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#34
No. I said I wouldn't debate it here.
I really appreciate the input though, I didn't consider outlaming an opponent, only tools for approach, space, punish, damage, and kill... On top of that, Jigg's mobility and relative safety allows her to mix up her options more and that could get her the upper hand.... but in a raw sense of the game, I see the matchup as even.

Also I don't consider stages with MUs, our region is too liberal with them and some characters like Jiggz, Wario, Pikachu, and many others DO get a boost.
I for the most part only imagine MUs in a good ol' SV-FD-BF standard (which actually is pretty good for Zelda, she's too slow or laggy in more complicated stages, so abusing or adapting to most of them use to be be hard for her).
 

ぱみゅ

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#40
Inactive except for Ed and myself.
Wolf was agreed to -3
Luigi and Samus were changed to -1
Ice Climbers and Sheik were discussed and resolved as unchanged.
Mario is now even.

Waiting for resolution on:
Bowser, Olimar, ROB, and I think that's about it
 
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