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BBR Matchup Chart Version 3 Panel ; Panelists, Join the MU Chart Usergroup

Locuan

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Well I might be outdated on individual match ups since I've been out of the scene for a while. Yet, I will say this:

First we assume that both the player and his or her opponent are using their characters to their full potential. After this assumption has been made we can say that any character that can approach, or harass Luigi safely will have an upper hand regardless of the situation. Luigi's game is more about how the player reacts to the opponent. And while this is true for all characters, Luigi relies on this heavily. Luigi can't just use a move and be safe, these moves have to land or you will be punished. As a Luigi player you want to create the environment you want to fight in. When I play as Luigi I will only approach my opponent to bait a reaction (I won't get close enough to get hit). By identifying these reactions you can start developing patterns and know how to fight that specific opponent.

With that being said, Ice Climbers seem to be a potentially difficult match up for Luigi. They have the tools required to approach Luigi or harass Luigi and still be completely safe. However, if Luigi manages to maintain the Ice Climbers separate, many of the moves that allow the Ice Climbers to be safe are suddenly rendered unsafe. If you miss a move you will be vulnerable. Yet, since a good Ice Climbers player will be able to maintain both units together the matchup heavily favors the IC's. In conclusion, because of these factors I believe that the current -2 rating is completely accurate.
 

Luigisama

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Well I might be outdated on individual match ups since I've been out of the scene for a while. Yet, I will say this:

First we assume that both the player and his or her opponent are using their characters to their full potential. After this assumption has been made we can say that any character that can approach, or harass Luigi safely will have an upper hand regardless of the situation. Luigi's game is more about how the player reacts to the opponent. And while this is true for all characters, Luigi relies on this heavily. Luigi can't just use a move and be safe, these moves have to land or you will be punished. As a Luigi player you want to create the environment you want to fight in. When I play as Luigi I will only approach my opponent to bait a reaction (I won't get close enough to get hit). By identifying these reactions you can start developing patterns and know how to fight that specific opponent.

With that being said, Ice Climbers seem to be a potentially difficult match up for Luigi. They have the tools required to approach Luigi or harass Luigi and still be completely safe. However, if Luigi manages to maintain the Ice Climbers separate, many of the moves that allow the Ice Climbers to be safe are suddenly rendered unsafe. If you miss a move you will be vulnerable. Yet, since a good Ice Climbers player will be able to maintain both units together the matchup heavily favors the IC's. In conclusion, because of these factors I believe that the current -2 rating is completely accurate.
wow you make a good point on luigi. Hmm from the looks of it the other people on the panel list with say -2. So I can't have my way.
 

smashkng

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I would only agree with -3 or -4 only if ics grab box was a bigger than it is.

Other than that I guess I should be considering Ics as a whole instead of one hit now the ice climbers are separated. Besides the HUGE threat of the chaingrab is gone once nana or popo is dead.

This is also my opinion so it's not set in stone for the mu ratio. No luigi will play by the wall of text that I just explained. But I'll continue to play this way for this mu.



by those standards then Ike must be as fast marth if the mu is -2 :crazy: and luigi getting pushed on shield by attacks is the PRIMARY weakness to luigi. There must be no way around OH NO:sadeyes:. I also didn't know that Ike jab > everything luigi. :embarrass:
I'm serious. Just ask San he's played against Boss in the past.
 

Blubolouis

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I've played some good Luigis in europe, and I also think Ike has an advantage. Perhaps not +2 because luigi edgeguards and combos Ike REALLY WELL. Just my thoughts.
 

smashkng

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I agree about the comboing Blubo and that Luigi can edge guard Ike, but I think Luigi gets edge guarded even harder. Luigi's side b is so easy to counter or Fair. Ike ledge traps Luigi pretty hard as well.
 

BSP

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Debate here isn't necessarily bad, but that's supposed to be reserved for the panels.

So here's what I'm seeing

Luigisama: -1
BigLou: no change
locuan128: no change
BSP: I can see -2, so I'll say no change

We're not at Ike yet, but I've played Ryo with Luigi and it wasn't fun. Ike is (oddly) much more mobile than Luigi, and his jab is really a force to be reckoned with. I'd slap a -2 on it, but there is no way it's an even MU.
 

Luigisama

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I would think that Boss and Mrconcon would agree with -2 as well. I'll send Mrconcon a message on skype about ics and his thought on the mu.

The only good ike player I played was Waldo and honestly if it was a -2 mu it would have felt like a -2 mu. I don't feel that at all and I'll discuss more once we reach ike for discussion.
 

Locuan

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When we do discuss Ike, I'll give my opinion. For some odd reason it's the matchup that I've played the most.
 

BigLøu

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I mean I don't have too much more to say really. Luigi loses, probably -3. He doesn't have many ways to safely poke at the ice climbers without risking being grabbed. Best bet is to somehow separate them, but it's just to hard to get near them =/
 

BSP

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Meh, alrighty. -2 is fine if it stays, and the ICs will bring it up if they want.

I'm just going down off the tier list for the most part, so :diddy: next

Explanation incoming, but I think this MU is -1 at best for :luigi2:. If Diddy plays it correctly , I think it's -2.
 

Locuan

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I'd have to say 0 or -1.

As with IC's and a lot of other characters, Diddy has a lot of tools to use against Luigi safely. However, due to Luigi's traction, Diddy's follow ups are limited in many ways. This is the primary reason for 0. Yet, I say -1 because I believe that in this matchup, Luigi's traction works against him as well. Since Diddy is constantly harassing with banana's etc. it usually ends up in an awkward reset due to the traction and you will have to work with your approaches once more.
 

Luigisama

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I'll say -1 at best since Diddy has some good banana setups to prevent luigi from getting back on stage and many luigis have trouble with this. It's mostly the keep away game that gives Diddy edge in this especially since he can glide toss where ever he wants to go.
 

BSP

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#beingabadleader

I'll send PMs for this MU today

Loucan, 0 is extremely optimistic for Luigi at this point in time IMO. As Sama mentioned, I Diddy gets his banana fortress up and his keep away game is half decent, it's an uphill battle for luigi

:phone:
 

Locuan

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#beingabadleader

I'll send PMs for this MU today

Loucan, 0 is extremely optimistic for Luigi at this point in time IMO. As Sama mentioned, I Diddy gets his banana fortress up and his keep away game is half decent, it's an uphill battle for luigi

:phone:
Point made, -1 all the way.
 

me9595

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the banana fortress isnt impossible to get through, but i would agree with -1
 

Luigisama

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title should say diddy kong. Also props to us lazy luigis for actually discussing. The other panels haven't even started yet.
 

boss8

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diddy can surprisingly play keep away with luigi....

that's mainly how ANY character will fight luigi (cept ice climbers)

everyone else will be playing DEFENSE/KEEP AWAY vs luigi....

giving us that time to think of new approaches/ways too bait them into coming near us...
 

BigLøu

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Diddy luigi is minus 1 for sure, but I think there can be an argument for minus 2.
Diddy doesn't really need to land any banana combo followups, it's to easy to play defensive. Not to mention diddy's fair goes through EVERYTHING -_-
 

Muhti

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Im with -1

The only harsh thing Diddy can actually do is his banana tossing. Otherwise, what can he do to weaken us?
 

BigLøu

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He can camp. ANd he moves around very fast so it's hard to land hits on him. Not to mention all he has to do to edgeguard is jump out and fair since it will go through.
 

BSP

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Luigi panelists, please send a request to join the MU chart subforum. Our discussion is supposed to take place there now. I'm glad we got started here though.

Also, I'm pretty sure there's a video of each MU in the Luigi video thread.

w.r.t. Diddy

Go watch the first half of ADHD v Boss 3 to see what aggro Diddy can do
Then, go look at Gnes vs Boss 3 or Jband vs ADHD 2/3 to see what campy Diddy can do. His defense is just too consistent and safe for Luigi to actually approach. Look at when Boss had to approach Gnes when the timer started winding down. If Diddy gets the lead, we're pretty much done outside of a grave mistake on Diddy's part.

I could see -1 due to the fact that Diddy can't really KO and Luigi can kill him at 50% and other low %'s (especially compared to Diddy) if things go his way, but I see -2 if Diddy establishes a good banana game (either aggro or defensive) and abuses it to full extent (to keep Luigi out, or to keep poking him safely).

@Muhti - as BigLou said, he can camp, and he can camp Luigi pretty hard. Those banana hits will stack up on Luigi, and they're pretty important if they prevent Luigi from touching Diddy at all.
 

boss8

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luigi's negative MU's are too much in their favor.....

at this point luigi would just hafe to be switched.....

and a new character would hafe to take the place of that incredibad MU....

(sad but true =/)

it sucks cause i always loved to use luigi...people jus limit everything...and play keep away all day...

the only thing luigi has going for him or nado n fireballs. (obv mindgames n such)

but that only goes so far....

in reality luigi doesn't really have ANY positive MU's......they can ALL lame u out....

including-falcon,ganon,link,samus,etc....


any character that can land an easy spike,is also ur worst enemy.Mainly because ur recovery limits u...they auto get free hits off of just luigi doing missle.....(main reason MK destroys us in the air..)


yea u can do the snake recovery,but u can also still get hit during ur missle/nado lag.....

snake recovery is kinda risky also vs many characters...


its funny...sometimes i wonder how i even beat people....

mainly because no one knows the luigi MU...once they learn...its redic..
 
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