Social Banjo-Kazooie Social Thread - Project Dream Come True!

[KingMinjo91]

I can see it being another Joker situation. New Banjo game announced for Microsoft, but Rare Replay Switch Edition and Banjo in Smash for Nintendo. Admittedly, that is a "dream come true" scenario.

 

[ivanlerma]

I had this idea in my head were a new Banjo Kazooie game was announce at Xbox's E3 event and at the end of the trailer Banjo & Kazooie receive a letter and after reading it they get surprised, then the two rash off saying they have to be over there but where? it ends with the letter falling to the ground with the smash stamp on it similar to villager's trailer.

 

[CosmicQuark]

Don't get me wrong, I believed the Grinch leak too but I'm looking back on it and I can now see a few fallacies with it's credibility.

First off, there were way too many characters to reveal for the last direct, August 8th until the game came out in December 7th. The August direct only had time to show two new characters and three echo fighters along with announcements of new stages. How would they be able to fit 5 newcomers and 2 echo fighters into one Smash Ultimate direct when they had the Spirits mode to talk about? I mean Nintendo directs are usually 45 minutes long and they got to add variety to them.

Secondly, I'd like to bring attention to this tweet from Rare back in June 29th:
https://twitter.com/rareltd/status/1012845868939177984?lang=en-gb (Apologies for the hyperlink but I don't know how to bring up the tweet onto the site)
This quote could have easily debunked the leak because if Rare was under NDA during the base roster, they wouldn't have said this. This pretty much fell under the radar for everyone since no one brought it up. However Rare are now radio silent on the subject of Super Smash Bros Ultimate whether because they're done telling fools twice or if they're now under NDA (Don't quote me on this, I only have the simplest idea of how Non disclosure agreements work)

For the Google Theory. Sakurai already explained back in November last year that the DLC lineup was ready and in production so the names could have gotten out there as soon as November. Also while yes it is strange that the keywords only work with European users, it could just be easier to do as they can get multiple languages done at once, however I am reaching for that argument. As far as I know nobody in Japan has tested this theory out so whether it works over there remains to be seen.

As for this quote "when even higher ups at companies working with Nintendo on Smash aren't made aware their character is in the game"
Didn't Sakurai once say that he needs these companies to work closely with him through the development of their characters? I seriously doubt that these companies would be left in the dark about their characters being in Smash for the fighter's pass. It doesn't make sense unless you're not referring to third party companies (Your comment was a bit vague about what kind of higher ups)

From what I've heard, Smash characters are a need-to-know basis, some even higher ranking people in these companies don't know their character is in the game until it's revealed. I think the quote I'm recalling was regarding Simon. The only people who need-to-know are the rights holders. Sakurai may get in touch with some people involved in a character if he wants to collaborate, but not necessarily. And while NOA and NOE may know before most others, I can't imagine they need-to-know until they're about to start marketing the characters. Several months out, even though Sakurai and some heads of Nintendo may know the final fighters pass, marketing people probably don't at this point.

As for the characters in the Grinch leak, there were 2 months for character reveals since Isabelle, and 3 months since the last Smash Direct for characters to be revealed. About 5 characters made sense given the timing. As it approached November, it became more and more unlikely that 7 characters would be revealed, until we got a rumor that there would be two Directs in November (which turned out to be false). 2 Directs could easily show off 5 unique and 2 echoes. And then we learned of the final Smash Direct--worrisome, but it was also 40 minutes, being the longest Direct. How could they possibly have 40 minutes with only a pokemon and a clone to show off? Welp--they did.

Sakurai admitted in September that they probably should have spaced characters out better--at the time I thought that was false humility. You want to undersell and surpass expectations. But, no, he was pretty up front at how they awkwardly paced reveals.

While I only gave Grinch leak a 75% chance of being real, I did at least expect more than Box Theory turning out to be true. I could live without Grinch theory being real, but Box Theory being true was what disappointed me the most. It's also why I learned with Smash--despite the E3 Direct making me think otherwise--it's better to simply set yourself up for disappointment and hope to be surprised. That is not how I viewed Smash prior to Ultimate.

And as Banjo & Kazooie are the only characters left I care about (I'd like Crash as well, but I consider B&K to be the missing piece), I'd be satisfied with any roster with them in it. So, I'd be happy if this was true, but I'd be pretty shocked if it was given the timing, characters, inconsistent reports, and conspiratorial nature of some of the claims, let alone that I can't test it myself.

 

[Darkbeard]

But what if the new Banjo Kazooie Game gets announced for the switch aswell?

It would still definitely be on Xbox and premiere at Microsoft's press conference.

If I remember correctly, I don't think a newcomer has ever been announced in a presentation what wasn't by Nintendo. I think that Nintendo likes doing Smash-related things on their terms.

That being said, I would be totally fine if this ended up being the exception and Microsoft got to announce Banjo & Kazooie in Smash. As long as the bear and bird get the attention they deserve.

To be fair, Joker was announced at The Game Awards - and for Smash 4, Pac-Man was revealed for the first time behind closed doors.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Why would we discuss Banjo in the Google & Minecraft thread?

Because some people care about staying on topic, apparently.

-it's better to simply set yourself up for disappointment and hope to be surprised.

Thanks to the fallout, people are mostly doing just that right now.

As for me, I simply try to focus on things other than this game and board until something happens.

 

[ChaosAngelZone]

To be fair, Joker was announced at The Game Awards - and for Smash 4, Pac-Man was revealed for the first time behind closed doors.

That's right! The Joker announcement was so recent that I don't know how I could have spaced on that one, but you're absolutely right. The Pac-Man announcement I didn't find out until a little while after the fact, so I remember it as Nintendo just announcing it out of nowhere, but you're right, that technically was shown off at a private event before being made public.

So yeah, I guess I'll take back what I said previously. A B-K announcement could totally potentially happen during Microsoft's presentation. Let's continue to hope!

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

To be fair, Joker was announced at The Game Awards - and for Smash 4, Pac-Man was revealed for the first time behind closed doors.

Difference is those aren't events from competing companies, but neutral areas or Nintendo-related. Also, TGA wasn't his full announcement, as there was no trailer. The full announcements had a trailer either as part of it or showed it off within the day. He was revealed too early as is.

Something like EVO would have more of a chance since it's not an event for a company that they compete with. It's neutral grounds. And they only were willing to announce their own event. Joker is more of a special thing than how they normally do things. Plus, we just saw Minecon have nothing to do with Smash. It's not impossible Nintendo could announce something at a Microsoft conference, but it'd more likely help them announce other cross-play than an actual Smash announcement(maybe a Smash direct could happen, which would be because Microsoft content is blatantly getting in. But that's not too likely regardless).

 

[Quidohmi]

Difference is those aren't events from competing companies

It could be argued that Microsoft and Nintendo aren't in direct competition and they keep saying stuff (can't think of any off the top of my head - maybe someone else can) that sort of implies that they don't see each other as competitors either. Not directly, anyway. Nintendo carved out their niche and Microsoft seems to be carving out theirs - if people won't buy a physical Xbox then put Xbox on everything to make it easier to buy.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

It could be argued that Microsoft and Nintendo aren't in direct competition and they keep saying stuff (can't think of any off the top of my head - maybe someone else can) that sort of implies that they don't see each other as competitors either. Not directly, anyway. Nintendo carved out their niche and Microsoft seems to be carving out theirs - if people won't buy a physical Xbox then put Xbox on everything to make it easier to buy.

That argument doesn't hold much water. They are absolutely competing companies with their own consoles and exclusives. They're just far more friendly than you'd expect some to be. Competing companies can still team up for things, but still be in competition as is.

They're absolutely competition without a doubt. The problem is people seem to think being competition means they act like they can never cooperate. That's not how it works. Though I will say them being competition doesn't mean it heavily affects a character's chance to get into Smash. Maybe in Sony's case, but that's more on Sony being unwilling to cooperate very often. Them cooperating with Microsoft is a huge surprise to gamers because it looks very OOC for Sony.

 

[MonkeyDLenny]

Good job on that poll guys! When it started Banjo was in fourth place, but we managed to shoot all the way up to first!

Here it is for those who haven't voted yet, the prize is artwork and this guy has done killer stuff

Following yesterdays, "what character do you want to see in Smash?"
Tallied the top 30, the full poll is here: https://t.co/yviCoHEt71
Top voted gets the smash art, vote for your character! pic.twitter.com/o4X5Nqodg0

— NinN (@NinNakajima) May 17, 2019

He did a good one for Scorpion

Smash commission for @Johny_Olde
you never know... pic.twitter.com/zRrYMUurzw

— NinN (@NinNakajima) May 13, 2019

 

[LightKnight]

my boy , you need to stay , we're going to start speculation again for Gruntilda and Yooka and Laylee after Banjo and Kazooie get in

More seriously , I'm pretty sure we would be rooting for Gruntilda right now if Banjo was Nintendo and was added to Melee. She would have been a kind of situation maybe.

And for Yooka and Laylee , Iv'e started the game today and discovered it with my mother. Pretty charming game over-all , been decades since iv'e played a 3D platformer/Collect-a-thon. It's not perfect , but I love it , so that's what matter most in the end. i don't think they would fit in as echoes , their capacities and over-all moveset are completely different. But it would be awesome to see these two duos together , it would make for pretty sweet interactions.
I think they got in another fighting game , was it Brawl Stars ? Brawlhalla ? I think it was Brawlout. Damn , they forgot Brawl was popular 12 years ago , now it's Ultimate

So yeah tl:dr : Even if Banjo and Kazooie got in , I'm pretty sure that some people will root for Gruntilda or Yooka and Laylee. (especially when a sequel will get released) Speculation will probably continue.
And yeah , there's also Conkers , but I was limiting myself to BK stuff + their spiritual succesor. I think Conker's Bad Fur Day is a bit too different , gameplay wise.

I'd be down for Yooka & Laylee as playable fighters. Never played the game (just like the Banjo-Kazooie games lol) but they seem like they could be a fun character brimming with personality. Even if it reminded people of Duck-Hunt and Banjo-Kazooie. Hopefully I can try them out in Brawlout(?) sometime.

 

[dlewis53]

Good job on that poll guys! When it started Banjo was in fourth place, but we managed to shoot all the way up to first!

View attachment 221468

Here it is for those who haven't voted yet, the prize is artwork and this guy has done killer stuff

Following yesterdays, "what character do you want to see in Smash?"
Tallied the top 30, the full poll is here: https://t.co/yviCoHEt71
Top voted gets the smash art, vote for your character! pic.twitter.com/o4X5Nqodg0

— NinN (@NinNakajima) May 17, 2019

He did a good one for Scorpion

Smash commission for @Johny_Olde
you never know... pic.twitter.com/zRrYMUurzw

— NinN (@NinNakajima) May 13, 2019

Oh hey, so he's THAT guy! I have every artwork he did for every official fighter as the desktop background for my computer; his artwork's pretty damn fantastic, and now that I know who this is, I'd LOVE to see an image like this for Banjo-Kazooie, although Sora would be pretty neat too!

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Maybe in Sony's case, but that's more on Sony being unwilling to cooperate very often.

Yeah. That there is the chief reason why people hesitate to wish for any of their house-owned characters in Smash. In their case, being on a Nintendo thing would absolutely be a requirement, even if Sakurai only sees it as a courtesy (unless some heavy arm-twisting was involved, at any rate).

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Yeah. That there is the chief reason why people hesitate to wish for any of their house-owned characters in Smash. In their case, being on a Nintendo thing would absolutely be a requirement, even if Sakurai only sees it as a courtesy.

Ehhhhh, I don't think that's the case here. That's still a fanrule to begin with. Sakurai created the criteria, not Nintendo itself. If he says being on Nintendo isn't a requirement, then it's not legitimately a requirement.

It's more like a useful tool instead. It is however notable that some companies want their games to appear on a Nintendo system first, as shown by the creator of Dante. So that goes to show that while Sakurai does not treat it as a remote requirement, other companies might care. Nintendo might only care in the case of the Fighter's Pass because they are part of the decision making. Otherwise I wouldn't really put any stock into the idea a Nintendo appearance is an actual requirement. They're only involved because it's still their product in other games, but they aren't the ones choosing the DLC outright so much as agreeing to negotiations. They weren't super involved outside of Ultimate, and that may be purely for DLC. We don't know how involved they were for the base game. Besides, we may actually get Kasumi as an echo... who has no Nintendo appearances. Which is a pretty big deal, as it's a great killing blow to the fanrule.

 

[Sigran101]

Part of me really wants the Google theory to be true, but part of me thinks it would just ruin the rest of the speculation period.

Like if Artorius gets announced at E3, at least half of smash boards, including me, will probably call it quits for speculation unless and until a second fighter pass is announced. It would be great to get Banjo, but there would be no surprise, and then it would just be quietly waiting for Hyabusa and Doomslayer to be announced.

I hope E3 shows of Banjo and a character not in any of the big leaks like Sephiroth. Then we get our Bear and Bird, and we still get some more surprises.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

They weren't super involved outside of Ultimate, and that may be purely for DLC. We don't know how involved they were for the base game. Besides, we may actually get Kasumi as an echo... who has no Nintendo appearances. Which is a pretty big deal, as it's a great killing blow to the fanrule.

Somewhat, but she's still related to a property that gets to show up on Nintendo-related stuff in some capacity. It still feels like baby steps for me.

What we need is someone like Kratos, who is 100% guaranteed to never be related to or showing up on a Nintendo console or software at all. THAT would kill it permanently.

Until now, we've been having third parties that are basically "famous for being in Sony-published games! Oh, and a Nintendo appearance or two". It's almost as if the third parties weren't sure Sakurai would accept their characters unless a loophole was involved.

Anyway I'm not going to speak on this matter any further, I'll be off from this topic until something interesting happens by E3.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Somewhat, but she's still related to a property that gets to show up on Nintendo-related stuff in some capacity. It still feels like baby steps for me.

What we need is someone like Kratos, who is 100% guaranteed to never be related to or showing up on a Nintendo console or software at all. THAT would kill it permanently.

Until now, we've been having third parties that are basically "famous for being in Sony-published games! Oh, and a Nintendo appearance or two". It's almost as if the third parties weren't sure Sakurai would accept their characters unless a loophole was involved.

This honestly just sounds like fishing for excuses to justify a fanrule. No, it doesn't matter if they have some silly connection or not. Kasumi 100% counts as killing it entirely. She's the exact same thing as Kratos would be, a character with zero Nintendo appearances. There is no tangible difference here. Just like having their game on Nintendo wasn't a requirement either(hi, Cloud). If he didn't even cameo in KH, he'd still be in realistically anyway. Why? Because console wars are pointless and he was gunning for Cloud due to who he was, not because of some silly Nintendo connection FF has. He wanted the biggest FF character as is, because FF is a hugely iconic game series. None of it was Nintendo-related. His only response is "I don't know what I've done", which already makes it clear it wasn't something that came up. Meaning the Nintendo thing wasn't even on his mind at all. That's how little of importance he finds it.

Nintendo themselves might care, on the other hand. But with them only being involved with 5 characters minimum, it's probably not going to be a major factor beyond that. The only thing making Kratos unlikely is on Sony's end, not on Sakurai's end, and there's quite literally nothing suggesting Nintendo would be too worried. Not when they have a Creeper 3DS and the Halo Mash-Up pack agreed to. That pretty much kills how much they care about this kind of stuff. If console wars were important to them, they wouldn't go with something that only really benefits Microsoft specifically.

 

[MissingGlitch]

Honestly at E3 I see Nintendo announcing all the Banjo related stuff. They might have Phil or someone from Microsoft on screen to help introduce it. Would be strange to make Banjo appear as an xbox exclusive during the Microsoft conference. And then have all the cool Banjo stuff during the Nintendo direct anyway.

 

[SuperSonicFlyer]

Well, does anyone think Nintendo will be willing to cooperate with Microsoft to get Banjo in? Well, to me, Nintendo did have some Rare games on their handhelds after Microsoft bought Rare, and they almost had a DS Halo game, so I can see that Nintendo may likely have willingness to cooperate based on those reasons. Just saying, even if you all knew that.

Speaking of which, some Rare games did come up on Nintendo handhelds in the past after Microsoft bought Rare. Do you guys think we'll get all new games from Rare on the Switch since it is both a home and handheld console for that matter?

 

[Quidohmi]

Well, does anyone think Nintendo will be willing to cooperate with Microsoft to get Banjo in? Well, to me, Nintendo did have some Rare games on their handhelds after Microsoft bought Rare, and they almost had a DS Halo game, so I can see that Nintendo may likely have willingness to cooperate based on those reasons. Just saying, even if you all knew that.

Speaking of which, some Rare games did come up on Nintendo handhelds in the past after Microsoft bought Rare. Do you guys think we'll get all new games from Rare on the Switch since it is both a home and handheld console for that matter?

Honestly I think Microsoft is willing to cooperate with anyone now. Xbone hasn't been doing too hot lately. That's why they want Xbox on everything.
They helped put Cuphead on the Switch. They're even putting Halo on Steam. Microsoft is doing just about anything and everything right now to make money. I wouldn't be surprised if Switch gets Rare Replay. New games? I dunno. I wouldn't mind having Sea of Theives on the Switch but I can't say I'm expecting it.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

I wouldn't be too worried about Steve being in Smash.

I do not like Steve and to be honest would probably quit Smash if he did get in but I do like Minecraft in general and I cannot deny that Steve is from the second best selling game in history. However that is the only reason people think he is likely and if that's case then the Tetris Block and Trevor Philips from GTA 5 are very much confirmed.
I have listed some reasons why I don't think Steve is very likely down here.

1. Like many other Steve detractors have stated, Steve is a bare bones basic movement character. This really comes down to the fact that Minecraft was designed with First Person in mind and Mojang using the bare minimum animations for Steve so they can focus their effort on building the world. From this, his attire and the generic name, Steve is just a base for the player with nothing else to him. Now Steve would be no problem to animate but that's because he only has like 1 frame of animation for everything except walking and mining. I know what you're thinking, "Steve could just use animations from Story mode or Dungeons" however every character in Smash Bros borrow heavily from their main series with spin-offs being a very small part. This is apparent when Steve isn't even the main focus of those games so Steve would have to use what was given to him in the main game to stay true to form. You can make him flip around and make him act like a lunatic all you want but then that would be a stark contrast to what he does in Minecraft.

2. Speaking of, for Steve to stay true to the game he comes from, his moveset must include digging and building which is what many, many people forget to talk about when mentioning Steve for Smash. Digging and building must come before everything else as that is what Minecraft is all about. You dig for materials and you build your creations. This in itself creates a lot of problems for Steve in general. Very few of the 104 stages are destructible for different reasons. With how Steve mines in his own games, he could very well just dig out the entire stage and make the game unplayable. Nintendo obviously wouldn't let that happen but there are other problems with that play style as well. Since the stages aren't designed with digging and building in mind, how would Steve even get the materials to build? Even if he did, it would be very limited compared to what he could do in Minecraft. He wouldn't be able to build a house because then he'd control the entire stage like placing blocks above him to create caves of life, create his own jab lock corner and even block characters from recovering from the edge which would be absolutely disastrous for the competitive Smash Bros scene to the point where the character would be outright banned. Again Steve needs digging and building in his moveset since that is what represents Minecraft the best, hence the name.

3. Steve is a third party character. That in itself isn't the problem but it's what Sakurai does with Third Party characters is the problem that Steve faces. Now for First Party characters, this is no problem as they are not guests like Captain Falcon who borrows little to nothing from his own games. Third party characters however often stay true to their main series as best as Sakurai and his team can make them out of respect for the franchises they appear in. If that isn't enough, they pull from the character's personality and style like Sonic where his movement is free flowing and full to the brim with attitude. Steve doesn't have a personality or style and he can't use a unique moveset since he's a guest character. He can't use Story mode or Dungeons animations since he doesn't appear in those games and they're spin-offs so it wouldn't be the main part of Steve.

4. Steve low key faces competition from Villager and Isabelle as the lifestyle representative. Now this maybe a very odd point but it's true. Villager and Isabelle pretty much do everything that Steve could do that would have made him unique and they do it better. Villager grows trees, Villager uses a shovel to dig for his down smash, Isabelle uses a Fishing rod, they both use slingshots to attack compared to Steve's arrows and they both build a house/town hall for their final smash.

5. Steve has Minecraft. The whole point of the game is to make your own experiences so you can make your own Smash Bros. He doesn't need Super Smash Bros when most of the fanbase are hardcore Minecrafters who barely play any other games. Sure it'd make Nintendo's part of the fanbase happy but what about the other 85% of the player base who play on PC, Xbox One, PS4, Android, IOS, Windows Phone? What about the fact that these fans have to switch to a completely different genre and console altogether? Will Minecrafters really enjoy Steve and Alex's inclusion if they can't use their own skins? The idea for Minecraft is for anyone to play the game on the system of their choosing, be the character they want to be and Steve being in Super Smash Bros wouldn't reflect that freedom. Lastly Smash Ultimate has Stage builder so having Minecraft would be quite redundant.

Keep in mind, I'm not saying that Steve is 100% deconfirmed but these are the reasons why I don't think Steve has a good chance.

You seem to be missing a lot of the point that you'd choose Steve or whatever to represent Minecraft and not specifically Steve himself for any reason. We need to move past the ideology a character will only be picked on their individual merits and not as a representative of the larger franchise or game in question. Talking about the redundancy of Steve compared to Villager feels basically like the same argument as "Who needs Banjo when we already have Duck Hunt" when they're all completely different from one another. And there are tons of ways to make Steve both unique and a good representative of Minecraft than have been discussed in multiple places.

Also, characters don't need Super Smash Bros really at all outside of a specific handful of which Banjo belongs to whose franchises are dead. It's not about him needing more recognition, it's about choosing to recognize a major game (now the best selling video game of all time) in what amounts to the largest video game crossover of all time. Whether or not you disagree with that idea, there's a complete validity to that idea of making your gaming crossover, well, crossover with other big IPs. And I don't think people on other consoles are going to particularly care about the idea of Steve showing up on another console's exclusive fighter (This **** happens literally all around the industry including with other icons in Smash). And we got Mario Maker when Stage Builder was a thing, was that not redundant too? Like seriously, some of these arguments do not stand up all that well.

There are some reasons not to choose to represent Minecraft in Smash, sure, but a lot of these arguments feel rather weak. And I will repeat that I'm a completely apathetic person to Steve in Smash. I don't care one way or the other, I just don't like the way some people in the speculation community seem to be so dead set on reaches to try to negate him...

While inpressive, I'm not that impressed, People always bring up how that it was always the "2nd best selling game of all time behind Tetris", But when you think about it.

- The game is half ($30) or most of the time a 1/3 ($20) of the price of a regular game ($60)

- "The best selling games of all time" was bound to be a multiplatform game since it's on every platform conceived, even on phones and tablets.

(Xbox 360/PS3/3DS/Wii U/PC/One/PS4/Switch/Mobile/Tablet)

- It launched in an era where Youtube was established and helped fully expose the franchise just like what Fortnite is going through right now compared to older IP's before it's time.

- I'm more impressed with Mario and Pokemon sales considering they are "Nintendo Exclusives" and would likely be the "Best selling games of all time" if they were multiplatform.

While I hate Minecraft, I won't deny that sales wise that is impressive to pull of in a decade, But just like the reasons I stated before, I'm not that impressed.

This comment seems to be bending over backwards to downplay a very legitimate status symbol of Minecraft. Becoming the best selling video game is impressive no matter how you frame it. And if you disagree, then literally no other game's sales are really all that impressive despite natural differing factors in the game's release. Just because the game is multiplatform doesn't really mean anything to anyone other than it had more avenues to be sold as a product. 170 million copies of a game sold is still 170 million copies sold. That speaks to an incredible reach of a game that has literally no other game has. The number of people a game reaches should by all means be impressive. And saying something like the Youtube era downplays the sales of Minecraft seems super counterproductive and unhelpful seeing as tons of games, both large and small have benefited with gains in popularity thanks to the platform and other forms of services provided in the 21st century, and you also basically de-legitimize all of those games' success by positioning that as a negative.

I just don't really get the point in trying to say it's not that impressive with this criteria. Yes, the sells of certain Nintendo IPs are impressive in their own right, but you can't point to a theory of them being the "best selling game of all time" if not limited by other consoles. Super Mario Bros. came out on the NES, which was a console that basically controlled the entire market during that era and has been re-released probably more times than Minecraft and it doesn't reach those heights. That's just way too unfounded of a claim that really feels like an unearned way to invalidate Minecraft's success

 

[Mr. Stagg]

Honestly at E3 I see Nintendo announcing all the Banjo related stuff. They might have Phil or someone from Microsoft on screen to help introduce it. Would be strange to make Banjo appear as an xbox exclusive during the Microsoft conference. And then have all the cool Banjo stuff during the Nintendo direct anyway.

I see all this Banjo-Kazooie stuff to be the 3 hit combo to solidify the Microsoft/Nintendo partnership. Banjo in Smash, Rare Replay, and Banjo-Threeie DURING E3 would be the nostalgia bomb everyone is waiting for. This all started with the Crash and Spyro remakes, all that's left now is Banjo-Kazooie to return. Not to dig on Minecraft too hard, but they are big enough. It;s high time Banjo-Kazooie get some love, Minecraft does fine.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Honestly I think Microsoft is willing to cooperate with anyone now. Xbone hasn't been doing too hot lately. That's why they want Xbox on everything.
They helped put Cuphead on the Switch. They're even putting Halo on Steam. Microsoft is doing just about anything and everything right now to make money. I wouldn't be surprised if Switch gets Rare Replay. New games? I dunno. I wouldn't mind having Sea of Theives on the Switch but I can't say I'm expecting it.

Steam is only on "computers", not actual other gaming consoles. It's not really the same thing. The only time Halo has not been on either a computer or Xbox system is literally the Halo Mash-Up Pack in Minecraft Switch.

Cuphead wasn't originally created by Microsoft. They just bought out the IP. It's notttttt exactly like they adopted it as an exclusive to some extreme degree like Halo has still currently been(as no Halo game is currently on another video game console. It should be noted that Halo DS was an idea brought up before Microsoft actually bought the IP. It might not mean much, but considering nothing similar ever got brought up again, it does show Microsoft is adamant on not putting it on competing video game consoles. You could argue Steam is one, but it's still just a computer thing, which is what Microsoft dominates market-wise too).

Basically, these aren't great examples of "anything and everything" as there's more context behind them. Not saying what your point is is impossible to happen in the future. A Halo Anniversary Edition for the Switch is absolutely possible. But as of now, we don't have anything proving they're trying to put their exclusives heavily on other gaming consoles. Cuphead wasn't an exclusive anyway. Nor was Minecraft, notably. Halo was never on anything but Microsoft or computers for a very long time, specifically PC's, which is Microsoft's literal department.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

Honestly at E3 I see Nintendo announcing all the Banjo related stuff. They might have Phil or someone from Microsoft on screen to help introduce it. Would be strange to make Banjo appear as an xbox exclusive during the Microsoft conference. And then have all the cool Banjo stuff during the Nintendo direct anyway.

I see all this Banjo-Kazooie stuff to be the 3 hit combo to solidify the Microsoft/Nintendo partnership. Banjo in Smash, Rare Replay, and Banjo-Threeie DURING E3 would be the nostalgia bomb everyone is waiting for. This all started with the Crash and Spyro remakes, all that's left now is Banjo-Kazooie to return. Not to dig on Minecraft too hard, but they are big enough. It;s high time Banjo-Kazooie get some love, Minecraft does fine.

Kind of feels like we're jumping the gun on a Banjo-Threeie announcement and it being Switch related at all. Honestly, Threeie seems like the kind of game that Xbox would absolutely want exclusive to their brand and I absolutely can see Microsoft playing a smart move of allowing Banjo Kazooie into Smash and the original games on Switch to increase exposure, but then marketing their premiere sequel as an exclusive. I suspect a lot of Banjo fans wouldn't even really hesitate all that much on the offer. I don't think Microsoft cares what would be "cool" or not. It's their IP and presumably their game.

And even then, we're fighting for Banjo Kazooie in Smash. Banjo-Threeie requires so many things to go right for it to exist, let alone for it to be good that it just really feels like a lot of jumping to conclusions to me. Especially with Rare in its current state...

I'm also going to say, "all that's left now is Banjo Kazooie" is a super subjective thing to say of nostalgia from that era when so many good/originators released. I understand they belong to the tradition of platformers from that era, but so do many others and Super Mario 64 doesn't even have a great remake either (Super Mario 64 DS is tolerable at the best of times and infuriating at the worst).

and Mr. Stagg I know you greatly dislike the way Minecraft support in Smash has evolved and have a distaste for "Blockheads" as you'll refer to them. But constantly referencing Minecraft in comparison to Banjo Kazooie is starting to get a little exhausting and seem in poor taste TBH. I feel like we're all around better served talking about Banjo Kazooie on their own merits and with regards to interesting Microsoft developments, rather than constantly bringing up Minecraft to prove how Banjo is better or more deserving or even just personally more pleasing... It's just a lot.

 

[Deleted member]

I won't buy a PS4 for Persona 5, but I might buy an Xbox for Banjo-Threeie.

 

[MissingGlitch]

Kind of feels like we're jumping the gun on a Banjo-Threeie announcement and it being Switch related at all. Honestly, Threeie seems like the kind of game that Xbox would absolutely want exclusive to their brand and I absolutely can see Microsoft playing a smart move of allowing Banjo Kazooie into Smash and the original games on Switch to increase exposure, but then marketing their premiere sequel as an exclusive. I suspect a lot of Banjo fans wouldn't even really hesitate all that much on the offer. I don't think Microsoft cares what would be "cool" or not. It's their IP and presumably their game.

And even then, we're fighting for Banjo Kazooie in Smash. Banjo-Threeie requires so many things to go right for it to exist, let alone for it to be good that it just really feels like a lot of jumping to conclusions to me. Especially with Rare in its current state...

I'm also going to say, "all that's left now is Banjo Kazooie" is a super subjective thing to say of nostalgia from that era when so many good/originators released. I understand they belong to the tradition of platformers from that era, but so do many others and Super Mario 64 doesn't even have a great remake either (Super Mario 64 DS is tolerable at the best of times and infuriating at the worst).

and Mr. Stagg I know you greatly dislike the way Minecraft support in Smash has evolved and have a distaste for "Blockheads" as you'll refer to them. But constantly referencing Minecraft in comparison to Banjo Kazooie is starting to get a little exhausting and seem in poor taste TBH. I feel like we're all around better served talking about Banjo Kazooie on their own merits and with regards to interesting Microsoft developments, rather than constantly bringing up Minecraft to prove how Banjo is better or more deserving or even just personally more pleasing... It's just a lot.

I mean I wasn't really treating it as a guarantee. All of this is still being talked about in a hypothetical sense. But I would assume Nintendo would want Banjo-Threeie if they got Banjo in smash. But then again we did just get Joker and Persona 5 is still nowhere to be seen (for some reason). I'm personally on the "it's not happening" boat in regardless to Banjo-Threeie anyway. I would just be happy with the rumored Switch Port of Rare Replay.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

I mean I wasn't really treating it as a guarantee. All of this is still being talked about in a hypothetical sense. But I would assume Nintendo would want Banjo-Threeie if they got Banjo in smash. But then again we did just get Joker and Persona 5 is still nowhere to be seen (for some reason). I'm personally on the "it's not happening" boat in regardless to Banjo-Threeie anyway. I would just be happy with the rumored Switch Port of Rare Replay.

I don't think Nintendo is really in a position to ask for Banjo-Threeie from Microsoft when the fact they're getting to use Banjo Kazooie at all from the company would be a small miracle. Nintendo has lots of influence and power, but Microsoft the company to push back if there ever was one. Also, sense Banjo Kazooie get added presumably out of fan demand, there wouldn't be as much of a need to have a new game on Switch since Banjo wouldn't be added for that purpose.

 

[RockOfMind]

Just coming out of the shadows to say a few things.

I'm gonna spare you guys my childhood memories, but Banjo-Kazooie has always been in the back of my mind since I first played it long ago.

I really hope you guys get that "Guh-Huh" you've all been looking forward to.

 

[CosmicQuark]

Has Sakurai ever stated anything that gave the impression he would pick a character to "represent" something? Whether it be a game or genre? I have a feeling he doesn't and this is simply a fan thing--from what I've seen, a character gets in on their own merits. I may not agree with those merits, particularly in Ultimate's case, but I feel like if a character gets in, it's because Sakurai thinks that character merits it. If a game is better represented by a stage than a character, it would probably only get a stage--like Monster Hunter getting a boss, but no character or actual stage. It may be flexible for first parties (e.g., Pokemon), but I feel like this is especially true for third parties.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

You seem to be missing a lot of the point that you'd choose Steve or whatever to represent Minecraft and not specifically Steve himself for any reason. We need to move past the ideology a character will only be picked on their individual merits and not as a representative of the larger franchise or game in question. Talking about the redundancy of Steve compared to Villager feels basically like the same argument as "Who needs Banjo when we already have Duck Hunt" when they're all completely different from one another. And there are tons of ways to make Steve both unique and a good representative of Minecraft than have been discussed in multiple places.

Representation isn't enough if you don't have a proper moveset to be envisioned with. You gotta be able to play the character, not just stand them on a pedestal and say "Hey look I'm the best selling video game of all time but have no moves to show it with." so my points still stand on Steve. With Duck Hunt, popularity is the problem with that character. They are more or less viewed by the community as a discount Banjo Kazooie so if they get in, Duck Hunt will be overshadowed by them. The only reason people even mention Duck Hunt is to compare them with Banjo Kazooie.

If you know there are tons of ways to show Steve to be unique, show me the best ones that you have seen if you can.

Also, characters don't need Super Smash Bros really at all outside of a specific handful of which Banjo belongs to whose franchises are dead. It's not about him needing more recognition, it's about choosing to recognize a major game (now the best selling video game of all time) in what amounts to the largest video game crossover of all time. Whether or not you disagree with that idea, there's a complete validity to that idea of making your gaming crossover, well, crossover with other big IPs. And I don't think people on other consoles are going to particularly care about the idea of Steve showing up on another console's exclusive fighter (This **** happens literally all around the industry including with other icons in Smash). And we got Mario Maker when Stage Builder was a thing, was that not redundant too? Like seriously, some of these arguments do not stand up all that well.

Bayonetta and Joker break the "recognising a major game" point because Bayonetta is not a major gaming icon and Joker was Sakurai's choice. Also are you sure that recognising major games is all that Nintendo is interested in? Because if that's all there is to it, Trevor Philips from GTA 5 is next on the list because he is from third best selling video game of all time. There could be a variety of different reasons characters are represented. While King K. Rool is a Nintendo representative, he was chosen because of fan demand so it's not unrealistic to think that one slot for the fighters pass could be saved for another fan requested character. Considering how on board Nintendo and Microsoft are with each other, Banjo Kazooie could have done so well on the Smash Ballot to catch Nintendo's eye to want to collaborate with Microsoft.

Again Sakurai could very well pick Steve and everything I've said could be all for nothing.

 

[Polan]

Representation isn't enough if you don't have a proper moveset to be envisioned with. You gotta be able to play the character, not just stand them on a pedestal and say "Hey look I'm the best selling video game of all time but have no moves to show it with." so my points still stand on Steve. With Duck Hunt, popularity is the problem with that character. They are more or less viewed by the community as a discount Banjo Kazooie so if they get in, Duck Hunt will be overshadowed by them. The only reason people even mention Duck Hunt is to compare them with Banjo Kazooie.

If you know there are tons of ways to show Steve to be unique, show me the best ones that you have seen if you can.

ask and ye shall receive (i have some serious beef with the way some of the moves work but otherwise i would welcome steve if he's implemented somewhat like this)

i still think banjo is more likely but denying steve because moveset potential is a really ignorant move.

 

[TheAnvil]

Moveset isn't a reason to keep anyone out. Sakurai takes creative liberty with characters and we have 20 odd RPG sword fighters and a literal generic plant.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Has Sakurai ever stated anything that gave the impression he would pick a character to "represent" something? Whether it be a game or genre? I have a feeling he doesn't and this is simply a fan thing--from what I've seen, a character gets in on their own merits. I may not agree with those merits, particularly in Ultimate's case, but I feel like if a character gets in, it's because Sakurai thinks that character merits it. If a game is better represented by a stage than a character, it would probably only get a stage--like Monster Hunter getting a boss, but no character or actual stage. It may be flexible for first parties (e.g., Pokemon), but I feel like this is especially true for third parties.

Yes. Villager was only doable because he could represent the gameplay of Animal Crossing. Ness is literally a representation of the gameplay and various PSI. We literally see what the character is like.

Shulk is another example, as his gameplay was designed to show off the Monado Arts, a key part of the gameplay. Another is the reason Fire Emblem characters even have Counter. It's because it represents the idea of being able to counterattack during a battle, after your opponent makes a move. It's something some strategy rpg's have(Shining Force is another example of this. I don't remember if it exists in Disgaea). So basically, some are clearly representing part of their series' gameplay, while others were directly stated to do so. It actually is a thing and part of why he often goes for mechanics to show off a series moreso than just a quick usable moveset(only clones get those. This also includes Echoes and Semi-clones, as shown with ones like Isabelle. And not all do, as Ness was literally created from Mario, which is also why they have a lot of similar moves, the same bodyshape for the Polygon form, and he happens to be very close to Mario and Luigi on the roster slot).

 

[Loliko YnT]

You know what I'm thinking? What about the Sora dudes? If Banjo and Kazooie get into Super Smash Bros then I'm rooting for Sora next out of the respect of those guys and I have no interest in Kingdom Hearts.

Sora fans are kind of like us in a way. We both have been clamouring for their appearance in Smash Bros, we've both been let down by various leaks, we're always told our character is irrelevant and we're both fighting the good fight against our nemesis', Steve and Erdrick. We should help those guys out if our bear and bird duo get in.

If a Yooka Laylee sequel addresses some of the problems with the first game, then I could see some support come their way but only after Shovel Knight and Shantae get playable representation. So it might be awhile, lol!

I personally think the sequel should really try to be its own thing and move away from the Banjo influence, especially if a Banjo Threeie ever sees the light of day. It will do well for Playtonic in the long run.

... Please don't take it harshly , but I think the Geno support fanbase is way more like you than the Sora fanbase.

First of all , calling Sora irrelevant is a joke. Look at the dozen of games HD deluxe collection he's gotten in the past few years , all the spin-off like Chain of Memories and Dream Drop Distance , or you know... God damn Kingdom hearts 3. This game was released last year. Yeah , it wasn't a perfect game , but it was enough for him to dominate fan polls. He is relevant. But , I know that you didn't said it , he's not iconic. He didn't introduce something revolutionnary in gaming or isn't well knowed among non-gamers. If he get in , that's because he's a well popular and loved character.

He's been let down by various leaks ? Besides Vergebias saying that Sora wasn't in during the 7 Square list (And this scream bias to me , he provided no proof about that) , he didn't got anything. Not a single tangible smash leak has ever been in his favor. Or better worded "He wasn't mentioned in any serious leak". While Banjo-Kazooie has some serious stuff going for him , for the leaks. heck , Geno , DQ and stinkin' Sephiroth had more serious leaks going for them (notably the 7 squares)
However , nothing was against him during the leaks. Leaks in general are a very gray area.

While Geno is still called that "irrelevant 20 year old one-off Mario character that belong to SE" , while he was in the grinch leaks , polar panda NoA rumor , and several leaks PapaGenos covered + the billions of fakes 4Chan leaks and what not. His support also started pre-brawl , not long after Banjo support wich was around Melee. I'm gonna be honest , serious support for Sora has started pre-Ultimate , since KH3 was announced. While the Geno support died down during Sm4sh , it was extremely active during Brawl and Pre-Ultimate , and is still fairly active today.
I am not calling any Sora fan a "bandwagonner" , anyone should feel free to support a character they like , as long as it's not done for toxicity. But I seriously can't see how those 2 fanbases are similar.

Heck , even the "they are both third party !" argument is better for Geno "They are both third party characters that should belong to Nintendo or the companies they own".

I honestly wonder if people started to replace Geno by Sora just because of that damn png. I mean , I'm happy he's there. Sakurai went out of his way to get him and Mallow , when SE litteraly had no interest in spirits , they gave the bare minimum. They didn't even gave Cloud 3D model from the original FF7 , NOT EVEN THAT.

Also , it didn't help that Iv'e seen more Sora talk here and in the Geno thread , than in the actual Sora thread... Wich has like , 12 pages.
And while I didn't had any bad experiences with Sora fans , or KH games in general , I just don't see how they were badly treated. Lot of games , lot of love both in fan-art/Fan polls/Fan remixes , popular , new games for the future... Even without Smash , he has a future. Banjo probably don't , and Geno , even less.

And please , no "nemesis" stuff... The DQ fans here in Smashboards are the most chill people Iv'e ever seen. And this is coming from someone wich has Erdrick as one of his least wanted Square rep. While I think they don't are always correct when talking about others SE rep , they never do it as a way to put them down and are open to the discussion. And Erdrick getting in don't close the door to others SE rep : What would close the door to Geno is if we get DQ , Sora , and Sephiroth , but the next character , instead of being Geno , was a Moogle or Neku. That's when I'll get worried.

For Steve , the majority of the hate come from dumb 4Chan haters or realistic Steve wich is only used for ****posting , and Smash twitter. And let's be serious : Smash twitter (when it is related to official games) is a saltmine. Maybe it's because I'm stuck on the competitve and speculation side of the Smash twitter , but Iv'e seen way more negativity and conflicts than positivity. If you're respectful toward Steve fans , they'll be respectful to you. If they are not , then don't bother with people who don't have manners or any understanding of the word "respect". Because these Steve fans could also be Geno fans , Chrorus kids fans , Kratos fans. Then you'll feel dumb when you realize that you hate Steve fans but also love Kratos fans.

I could also mention discord severs used for speculation... But no matter the character , they usually don't end up well.

Sorry for the long rant , but this is something that needed to be adressed. I admit I'm very sensitive on the subject , but I hope nobody took that badly. I was just trying my best to explain that I don't feel like the Sora fanbase is in a similar spot to your fanbase. This isn't done to encourage any hate toward anyone , alright ?

---

I absolutely agree with you. While I think a Banjo-Threeie is very unlikely for now , the mere fact of Banjo-Kazooie and Tooie coming to Switch will kill Yooka-Laylee if they don't change.
I think there's a lot of good stuff in Yooka-Laylee (especially the charm of the characters , that's a very big factor for me.) , but it's pretty obvious that it's still Playtonic first game. If they have listened to the criticism , I'm sure they could make a very fun and solid game.

Moveset wise , they are a very different duo from Banjo and Kazooie. Even from a personnality side of things , Yooka is a very calm and chill dude while Banjo is more happy go lucky. But I found Laylee and Kazooie to be a bit too similar.

If they remove dead end that have nothing , and especially not hide feathers in places like that , I think it would be better. Also , while I think the way pagies are used is pretty smart (Making the world bigger after exploring it is a good way to not overwhelm the player) , they still feel a bit too similar to jiggies. Sometimes separating a pagie in several pieces was a good idea , but there was others possibilities to explore : Finding a blank pagie and using ink you found somewhere else to give it life as an example.
Also , the fact that everything has eyes. It's a Banjo thing : I don't mean that nobody else can use it , but I think it's too much with Yooka Laylee.

But , FOR ME , it's a fun game. I'm someone who hate being rushed , so taking my time collecting everything and appreciating the worlds is something I love. I like the occasional time trials , they are a bit strict , but I love challenges like these.
And also , I bought it digitally for only 20 dollars , and wasn't a donator , so my expectations were lower. But not dead bottom , always expecting the worst in life isn't good.

And I think it's already pretty good that they got in Brawlout. I think a spirit is still a reasonnable possibility for DLC , or heck , maybe even a costume.

To finish , here's my favorite track from the game ( for now ) :

 

[osby]

20 odd RPG sword fighters

We have 9.

7 strategy RPG character (), one action RPG character () and one turn based RPG character ().

 

[Evil Trapezium]

... Please don't take it harshly , but I think the Geno support fanbase is way more like you than the Sora fanbase.

First of all , calling Sora irrelevant is a joke. Look at the dozen of games HD deluxe collection he's gotten in the past few years , all the spin-off like Chain of Memories and Dream Drop Distance , or you know... God damn Kingdom hearts 3. This game was released last year. Yeah , it wasn't a perfect game , but it was enough for him to dominate fan polls. He is relevant. But , I know that you didn't said it , he's not iconic. He didn't introduce something revolutionnary in gaming or isn't well knowed among non-gamers. If he get in , that's because he's a well popular and loved character.

He's been let down by various leaks ? Besides Vergebias saying that Sora wasn't in during the 7 Square list (And this scream bias to me , he provided no proof about that) , he didn't got anything. Not a single tangible smash leak has ever been in his favor. Or better worded "He wasn't mentioned in any serious leak". While Banjo-Kazooie has some serious stuff going for him , for the leaks. heck , Geno , DQ and stinkin' Sephiroth had more serious leaks going for them (notably the 7 squares)
However , nothing was against him during the leaks. Leaks in general are a very gray area.

While Geno is still called that "irrelevant 20 year old one-off Mario character that belong to SE" , while he was in the grinch leaks , polar panda NoA rumor , and several leaks PapaGenos covered + the billions of fakes 4Chan leaks and what not. His support also started pre-brawl , not long after Banjo support wich was around Melee. I'm gonna be honest , serious support for Sora has started pre-Ultimate , since KH3 was announced. While the Geno support died down during Sm4sh , it was extremely active during Brawl and Pre-Ultimate , and is still fairly active today.
I am not calling any Sora fan a "bandwagonner" , anyone should feel free to support a character they like , as long as it's not done for toxicity. But I seriously can't see how those 2 fanbases are similar.

Heck , even the "they are both third party !" argument is better for Geno "They are both third party characters that should belong to Nintendo or the companies they own".

I honestly wonder if people started to replace Geno by Sora just because of that damn png. I mean , I'm happy he's there. Sakurai went out of his way to get him and Mallow , when SE litteraly had no interest in spirits , they gave the bare minimum. They didn't even gave Cloud 3D model from the original FF7 , NOT EVEN THAT.

Also , it didn't help that Iv'e seen more Sora talk here and in the Geno thread , than in the actual Sora thread... Wich has like , 12 pages.
And while I didn't had any bad experiences with Sora fans , or KH games in general , I just don't see how they were badly treated. Lot of games , lot of love both in fan-art/Fan polls/Fan remixes , popular , new games for the future... Even without Smash , he has a future. Banjo probably don't , and Geno , even less.

And please , no "nemesis" stuff... The DQ fans here in Smashboards are the most chill people Iv'e ever seen. And this is coming from someone wich has Erdrick as one of his least wanted Square rep. While I think they don't are always correct when talking about others SE rep , they never do it as a way to put them down and are open to the discussion. And Erdrick getting in don't close the door to others SE rep : What would close the door to Geno is if we get DQ , Sora , and Sephiroth , but the next character , instead of being Geno , was a Moogle or Neku. That's when I'll get worried.

For Steve , the majority of the hate come from dumb 4Chan haters or realistic Steve wich is only used for ****posting , and Smash twitter. And let's be serious : Smash twitter (when it is related to official games) is a saltmine. Maybe it's because I'm stuck on the competitve and speculation side of the Smash twitter , but Iv'e seen way more negativity and conflicts than positivity. If you're respectful toward Steve fans , they'll be respectful to you. If they are not , then don't bother with people who don't have manners or any understanding of the word "respect". Because these Steve fans could also be Geno fans , Chrorus kids fans , Kratos fans. Then you'll feel dumb when you realize that you hate Steve fans but also love Kratos fans.

I could also mention discord severs used for speculation... But no matter the character , they usually don't end up well.

Sorry for the long rant , but this is something that needed to be adressed. I admit I'm very sensitive on the subject , but I hope nobody took that badly. I was just trying my best to explain that I don't feel like the Sora fanbase is in a similar spot to your fanbase. This isn't done to encourage any hate toward anyone , alright ?

Whoops. Guess I should have thought about what I said when comparing Banjo and Sora. I was merely trying to support the Sora fanbase because I see lots of support for the character on YouTube and Twitter with how they come neck and neck with us Banjo Kazooie fans so to me it looked like we were kind of similar but from what you have stated, it seems that it's not the case.

However I'm still dead set on the nemesis thing to the bitter end because there can only be one character from each company that can come out from this fighter's pass. Though I'll still respectful so I will do no trash talking to them so don't you worry about that.

 

[MissingGlitch]

Just a reminder there is no rule that says one company can't have multiple DLC characters. The DLC can be four more Microsoft characters if they so choose. As unlikely as that seems lol

 

[CosmicQuark]

Yes. Villager was only doable because he could represent the gameplay of Animal Crossing. Ness is literally a representation of the gameplay and various PSI. We literally see what the character is like.

Shulk is another example, as his gameplay was designed to show off the Monado Arts, a key part of the gameplay. Another is the reason Fire Emblem characters even have Counter. It's because it represents the idea of being able to counterattack during a battle, after your opponent makes a move. It's something some strategy rpg's have(Shining Force is another example of this. I don't remember if it exists in Disgaea). So basically, some are clearly representing part of their series' gameplay, while others were directly stated to do so. It actually is a thing and part of why he often goes for mechanics to show off a series moreso than just a quick usable moveset(only clones get those. This also includes Echoes and Semi-clones, as shown with ones like Isabelle. And not all do, as Ness was literally created from Mario, which is also why they have a lot of similar moves, the same bodyshape for the Polygon form, and he happens to be very close to Mario and Luigi on the roster slot).

I agree, though my point was different--that Sakurai doesn't choose a character to represent the game/genre itself, especially third parties--we know how flexible that is with first party (e.g., a Pokemon rep, a Fire Emblem rep). The point I was making goes to choosing a character as a repesentative. For instance, I don't think Sakurai would choose Doom guy simply to have a FPS rep. If Doom guy got in, it would be for the character and the potential, not to be a "rep".

We know how flexible that is for first parties, as Sakurai specifically stated he leaves a slot open for a Pokemon.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I agree, though my point was different--that Sakurai doesn't choose a character to represent the game/genre itself, especially third parties--we know how flexible that is with first party (e.g., a Pokemon rep, a Fire Emblem rep). The point I was making goes to choosing a character as a repesentative. For instance, I don't think Sakurai would choose Doom guy simply to have a FPS rep. If Doom guy got in, it would be for the character and the potential, not to be a "rep".

We know how flexible that is for first parties, as Sakurai specifically stated he leaves a slot open for a Pokemon.

It might not be him being flexible moreso that he knows it's a good idea. Pokemon is a massive series. It's easy to throw a new Pokemon in each time. He can be quite limited in what he can do with characters.

I do agree that it's extremely unlikely he'd choose a rep based upon genre alone. It could be a tiny factor, like why he'd want Doom Slayer or Master Chief, but more of an afterthought/small reason for it. There's way more reasons than that, including gaming icon, unique gameplay, and so on.

Incidentally, MegaMan is a 3rd party designed to represent his series heavily(series, not genre), in the way that Ness was. It does at least tell us he cares about the gameplay of the series quite a bit.

 

[Loliko YnT]

Whoops. Guess I should have thought about what I said when comparing Banjo and Sora. I was merely trying to support the Sora fanbase because I see lots of support for the character on YouTube and Twitter with how they come neck and neck with us Banjo Kazooie fans so to me it looked like we were kind of similar but from what you have stated, it seems that it's not the case.

However I'm still dead set on the nemesis thing to the bitter end because there can only be one character from each company that can come out from this fighter's pass. Though I'll still respectful so I will do no trash talking to them so don't you worry about that.

Don't worry , no harm was done.
If you still want to support the Sora fanbase , go ahead. I don't encourage anyone to stop supporting them because they have a different situation.

It honestly depend : When you think about it , dealing with 3 differents companies is easier than dealing with 5 different companies.
Think about it : Microsoft and Nintendo will be the big names at E3 , and revealing 2 characters is likely. Then why not two microsoft characters ?
Both Steve and Banjo and Kazooie getting in will make everyone happy and is completely possible :

-Both fanbases will be happy

-Sakurai get the character from the most selled video game of all time , an icon , and one of the most wanted characters in the history of Smash+ an icon of a complete genra

-Microsoft get to push even harder Minecraft and open the door for new games for Banjo and Kazooie : They have mr.collect-a-thon with them + we're in a time where this genra is getting popular again. They are the best opportunity for cross-promotion : Kazooie and Tooie HD both on Switch and XBOX One , and an exclusive Banjo game on XBOX ONE

-Nintendo manage to get more people to play Minecraft Switch , and to buy more online subscriptions. Banjo Kazooie/Rare replay make their library of Switch games even bigger and trust me , BANJO ON SWITCH WILL SELL LIKE HOTCAKES. It's a ton of profit for them on the long term.

-A co-reveal of these two together is an instant win button for E3 for both companies.

If you're talking about costumes as a counter-argument : THEY ARE NOT IN THE FIGHTER PASS.
They are considered as individual DLCs that you have to buy outside of the fighter pass. (I was very mad , because I tought buying Joker's pack would give me the Miles Prower and Knux costume.) So any microsoft/Rare costume can be announced with them and be released individually.

Furthermore , WHO could be a good candidate to be revealed alongside Banjo and Kazooie or Steve ? Because no matter how you slice it , those 2 characters would break the damn internet. Using a first party to promote a game would be very badly recieved , except if :
-The character is really unique and cool (King Boo for Luigi's Mansion 3 , as an example)
-Is a very big fan-favorite (Isaac for Golden Sun 4 reveal) or to push an already established and loved franchise with no playable rep. (Chorus Kids for Rythm heaven as an example)
And even then , they will probably be forgotten quickly.

And for 3rd party ? Erdrick , no matter how you slice it , is a Japan heavy character. He's also a sword user (He's unique , but looking at him , there's no way to know that he has others weapons and magic) , if anything , his reception would be very mixed.
Probably no SEGA rep
For Bamco , they have a very big list to chose from , but except if they pick a Dark Souls rep , I don't see them being as ground breaking.
For Capcom , Morrigan and Phoenix Wright are very good candidates , but won't stand a chance to have some spotlight against Banjo and Steve.
For Konami , Bomberman got AT'd , and I can only see Frogger left , but I might be forgetting someone.

I think the important factor is : Why bother ? Why trying to include a big reveal and then try to slip in a character with no relation to them or a very big upcoming game ? When it is easier to ask a company for 2 characters , instead of 2 companies for 2 characters ?
Especially when the letter that Sakurai send (and wich was shared by Pushdustin) mentioned specifically fighter 2 and 3? Sakurai has no obligation to tell them how much they progressed on the characters. And the , why these two especially ? With E3 being so close ? It seem a bit fishy to be specific like that. He could be honest , but he has no reason to. Saying "The upcoming 4 DLC characters" wouldn't have created any kind of expectation , compared to "fighter 2 and 3".

So yeah , don't think that it's impossible for 2 characters from the same company to be DLC for the first FP. Sakurai never said it was like that , and do you know what mostt of the people who will buy DLCs want ?
More fun and cool characters. And this can be first party , indie , 3rd party , ect... And this can be 2 characters from the same company.