Social Banjo-Kazooie Social Thread - Project Dream Come True!

[TheAnvil]

It took me forever to find the video, and by the time I find it, it's been posted.

I don't think it deconfirms it--even if they were in the know, I bet this is before DLC was finalized to where they would know, but I don't think they would be. Only those higher up in Microsoft I would think would know, those below would probably only hear rumors.

This came at the end of September last year, after Vergeben said Minecraft content was in Smash but before we had official word the DLC had been finalised.

 

[CosmicQuark]

This came at the end of September last year, after Vergeben said Minecraft content was in Smash but before we had official word the DLC had been finalised.

I know, and since it was before it was finalized, I'm sure they wouldn't know, even if Steve ultimately ended up as DLC. I still don't know what to make of Verge's rumors, since he heard them in April, I would have expected Minecraft to be in the base game if what he heard was true (I doubt they would have been working on DLC in April).

The only speculation I've heard that makes sense was that Steve was supposed to be in the base, but ended up DLC, but I find that hard to believe.

 

[Mr. Stagg]

Actually she replied to me on Twitter, she definitely knows what's been going on

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Seems the feud has been spreading farther than I thought.

 

[MissingGlitch]

I wonder if she is just getting tired of contently being asked about it because she is a community manager.

 

[MonkeyDLenny]

I wonder if she is just getting tired of contently being asked about it because she is a community manager.

She's only really started talking about this now. Her initial response went under the radar for months

Like, this is the way I see it: Aubrey's official position in the company is Senior Manager, Head of Community & Player Voice (Minecraft) at Microsoft, according to her Linkedin

After the Grinch Leak was proven false, she bad-mouthed the idea of Steve being a playable character on the grounds of him just being an empty shell of an avatar that goes away when players use their own skins. It's also around this time that DLC for Smash was announced to be finalized and chosen too. Seems weird she'd mouth off against Steve like that if he were coming...

Not to mention, being a Community Manager would mean that she'd have been told what NOT to say... Usually these company heads and community leaders just kind of shut up if there's a secret they need to keep.

She unprompted gave a raised eyebrow to a fake Steve announcement too, she shot down a troll trying to discredit her, and her response to me on Twitter shows that she KNOWS Steve VS Banjo is a hot topic within the Smash Community She hasn't given a hard yes or no, that's for certain. But the fact that she's willing to even engage on the subject is noteworthy.

She's definitely being careful to not give a straight answer, and she has not dealt out a hard yes or no, but her skepticism on the matter is an interesting take

Although with that said, I don't want to bother her... I'm surprised she even responded to me. Usually I don't try to drag people into Smash talks like this, I feel second hand embarrassment over the Shantae fiasco...

 

[TheCJBrine]

I wish the trolls would shut up.

I shared my thoughts regarding Steve and Creeper and someone seemed rude replying to me about must've loving Piranha Plant too...

...and yeah, I did, so did a lot of other people, at least the Creeper is the dang mascot.

And then the Steve trolls who likely don't actually want Steve keep making this stupid feud go on.

 

[TheAnvil]

Someone who's clearly not just anti-steve should genuinely ask her to comment on if she can answer if Steve is in Smash. If she gives a no, then we definitely know he's out.

 

[TheHeartbreakKid]

Whether or not DLC was finalized by the time she made her initial tweet, DLC IS finalized now. As community manager, she’d be part of the big push to hype Steve’s arrival when he was announced. She’d know if he was coming or not, and she’d CERTAINLY be instructed not to comment on the issue the way she’s been recently, ESPECIALLY in regards to a previous comment about how little she wants to see the character in the game.

Steve’s ****ing DEAD, boys.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

So Steve is not looking likely at all right now. But I am sure the folks at Gameexplain still think he is basically a lock.

 

[TheCJBrine]

I'm wondering whether or not I should just ask Jens about Steve in Smash, or maybe Agnes.

I know Jens is the head of the team, I think director of the creative stuffs/ideas/whatever it was, too, and I think Agnes may be a head dev or creative director as well.

If either of them reply saying no, then that's 100% Steve/Creeper disconfirmed.

What's keeping me from asking is that I'm a bit nervous as asking people - who seem very busy - about Smash feels a bit awkward.

 

[Voe]

Actually she replied to me on Twitter, she definitely knows what's been going on

View attachment 204876

Has she been watching us...this whole time?

Spoiler

 

[Deleted member]

So Steve is not looking likely at all right now. But I am sure the folks at Gameexplain still think he is basically a lock.

The only Gamexplain memeber who's word may matter is Jon, who has leaked certain announcements before (Kirby Extra Epic Yarn, FF on Switch, etc) but even his words should not be trated as gospel (remember Shadow as a semi-clone guys?)

 

[weallfloatdownhere7]

So Steve is not looking likely at all right now. But I am sure the folks at Gameexplain still think he is basically a lock.

To be fair, the GameXplain guys have always been hopeful and supportive of Banjo. I don’t think they know anything one way or the other about the dlc though

 

[Lycan Rex]

All this talk of steve being possibly deconfirmed, makes me worried rare said something about banjo that we skimmed over. Tho I believe we would be on that like white on rice.

 

[CosmicQuark]

All this talk of steve being possibly deconfirmed, makes me worried rare said something about banjo that we skimmed over. Tho I believe we would be on that like white on rice.

The great thing about this thread is everything having to do with Banjo in Smash is on here. The downside is everything having to do with Banjo in Smash is on here.

 

[pupNapoleon]

The Duck Hunt fallacy is a weak crutch to discredit Banjo-kazooie's viability as a fighter. Aesthetics is the only thing closely resembling each other and even then it is just bird pecks. Anyone who knows even base knowledge of B-K and B-T know that there is way more to them than just that. Duck Hunt is an amalgamation of classic SNES with references to Hogens Ally, Clay pigeon shooting, and the zapper as a hidden 3rd fighter. Banjo-kazooie is the dynamic of a Bear using a large bird as a combination rifle, bayonet, drill, hammer, transport and best friend.

https://youtu.be/QLWLdO9GLWM

Looking at the Nuts and Bolts trailer is the best counter-argument to the Duck Hunt fallacy because in the trailer, Banjo creativity uses Kazooie as a lock pick, and then a CHAINSAW! Those moves aren't even in the games and yet it showcases the creative potential Sakurai can use to make them a unique and viable fighter.

The other best way to shut down the Duck Hunt Fallacy is to point out fighters that have similar moves and ask why they are allowed. Ask why is Ganon and Incineroar allowed when Bowser has a side b command grab? Mention why is Chrom allowed when he has moves from all the current Fire Emblems in the roster.

Not to throw shade at others who thought this, I just find it funny how trolls use that Strawman to try and justify keeping Banjo out. Plus my sides will be in orbit if our theory of Duck-Hunt's model as a base for Banjo-kazooie is confirmed.

The other thing with Duck Hunt is that the Dog is always in charge.
As it pertains to Banjo and Kazooie, as well as what I think distinguishes them heavily, is that each of them fully takes over in different modes.
I'd love to see that utilized.

 

[The DanMan051]

The great thing about this thread is everything having to do with Banjo in Smash is on here. The downside is everything having to do with Banjo in Smash is on here.

That's a better summation than it should be.

 

[ryuu seika]

If anything, calling Ken an echo is unfair to him. He's got so many unique moves and such, he's really a clone.

An echo is just a fancy name for a clone. We should be able to stack Ken with Ryu, Isabelle with Villager, Ganondorf with Captain Falcon, the entire Starfox cast with Fox and most of the Fire Emblem one with Marth to unclutter the select screen.

 

[Deleted member]

Hey guys I’m starting to notice the steve fans on Twitter are going all out like wild dogs after what just happened. They’re even hunting down who mentions the tweet Aubrey made

 

[TheAnvil]

An echo is just a fancy name for a clone. We should be able to stack Ken with Ryu, Isabelle with Villager, Ganondorf with Captain Falcon, the entire Starfox cast with Fox and most of the Fire Emblem one with Marth to unclutter the select screen.

Wolf ain't a clone lol.

 

[MonkeyDLenny]

Hey guys I’m starting to notice the steve fans on Twitter are going all out like wild dogs after what just happened. They’re even hunting down who mentions the tweet Aubrey made

It's far too early to celebrate just yet, although I have to say... it's kind of nice being on the winning end of the debate for a change

 

[TheCJBrine]

It's not like there was ever any real debate aside from stupid trolls or genuine fans trying to show how Steve could work/possibly get in.

Hey guys I’m starting to notice the steve fans on Twitter are going all out like wild dogs after what just happened. They’re even hunting down who mentions the tweet Aubrey made

Are they not simply trolls that try and make Steve look bad?

 

[Deleted member]

It's far too early to celebrate just yet, although I have to say... it's kind of nice being on the winning end of the debate for a change

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You know what...

I gonna talk to polarpanda and tell her what she thinks about this tweet.

 

[Opossum]

An echo is just a fancy name for a clone. We should be able to stack Ken with Ryu, Isabelle with Villager, Ganondorf with Captain Falcon, the entire Starfox cast with Fox and most of the Fire Emblem one with Marth to unclutter the select screen.

Is anyone that truly anal about select screen aesthetics matching their own personal definition of what constitutes an echo? Because that just seems incredibly petty...most egregiously with the Star Fox cast, especially Wolf this time around.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

To be fair, the GameXplain guys have always been hopeful and supportive of Banjo. I don’t think they know anything one way or the other about the dlc though

I don’t think they take him that seriously. I know Nintenjex does over at Source Gaming though, which is surprisingly considering how very even headed he is.

 

[Deleted member]

It's not like there was ever any real debate aside from stupid trolls or genuine fans trying to show how Steve could work/possibly get in.



Are they not simply trolls that try and make Steve look bad?

It’s a mixed bag

Some are some aren't

 

[Cap'n Jack]

I did kinda want Steve in after hearing a lot more about why he should be included, so I do feel bad for those who’ve supported him pre-Verge

 

[Lycan Rex]

Banjo as a duck hunt clone makes no goddamn sense. Usually when this gets brought up, banjo fans will make a laundry list of things banjo can do that DH can't, but I'll make this short by asking a simple question:

Why the hell would nintendo go thru the hassle of getting permission to use banjo only to make him a clone? That would the biggest waste of time and money.

Of course we never have to worry about that, thanks to sakurai (the guy that gave a plant a unique moveset)

 

[Cap'n Jack]

I think a standing Duck Hunt would be a perfect base model though

 

[TheCJBrine]

I did kinda want Steve in after hearing a lot more about why he should be included, so I do feel bad for those who’ve supported him pre-Verge

tbh I did start talking about him after the "leak" but I've been a Minecraft fan since 2011 and was shy about bringing Minecraft up before because of people who generalize the fanbase and bash the game because of it...

...also I sometimes fail to relate a character I really like to Smash ._.

 

[Mr. Stagg]

Hey guys I’m starting to notice the steve fans on Twitter are going all out like wild dogs after what just happened. They’re even hunting down who mentions the tweet Aubrey made

To be fair I bet a majority of them are trolls who probably don't even play Smash. Still, considering we Banjobros did not hound and harass others when we got bad news is quite telling.

They are fuming over on Gamefaqs, it's kinda sweet watching them twist and pretzel themselves a counter-argument. So far all I've seen are lies and complete ignorance to the facts. They claim that Phil Spencer's tweet debunks Banjo even though it was 8 months before DLC was finalized. It's cute to watch the trolls squirm.

 

[TheCJBrine]

To be fair I bet a majority of them are trolls who probably don't even play Smash. Still, considering we Banjobros did not hound and harass others when we got bad news is quite telling.

They are fuming over on Gamefaqs, it's kinda sweet watching them twist and pretzel themselves a counter-argument. So far all I've seen are lies and complete ignorance to the facts. They claim that Phil Spencer's tweet debunks Banjo even though it was 8 months before DLC was finalized. It's cute to watch the trolls squirm.
View attachment 204994

hopefully they get lost and let the kind Steve fans take their spotlight.

 

[Deleted member]

Is anyone that truly anal about select screen aesthetics matching their own personal definition of what constitutes an echo? Because that just seems incredibly petty...most egregiously with the Star Fox cast, especially Wolf this time around.

I do think that Dr Mario should have been branded with the Echo banner though. Not because "He IS jUSt MaRIo IN a DOCtor cOStUmE!!", but because he shares more moves with Mario than Ken does with Ryu (at lest according to this little helpful article i found, which denotes that Dr Mario in Ultimate shares 91.7% of Marios moves, while Ken shares 73.3% of Ryu's moves), plus he has the same body build (which is probably why other characters like Young Link and Pichu do not fit into echo category), and his Final Smash is much more similar to Mario's compared to other echoes (except Lucy who has the same one as Marth)

Then again if i do bring up Pre-Smash 4 clones that brings up the possibility of labeling Roy as an echo and that would be a UI mess with 3 characters sharing the same base, so maybe that's why they didn't label Doc as an Echo.

EDIT: Not that i care too much since i don't use echo staking, but it's weird for Doc to not be an echo while Dark Pit and Lucina are (especially because Doc was mentioned alongside Lucina and Dark Pit by Sakurai regarding Clones in Smash 4)

EDIT 2: My mistake, it was 91.7%, the 95.8% was in Smash 4.

 

[MissingGlitch]

Also remember there doesn't have to be a Microsoft smash character. Every time we get cocky it comes to bite us in the ass.

Also friendly Steve supports both himself and Banjo because they are Brothers. If only I had that friendly Steve render on my phone.

 

[Opossum]

I do think that Dr Mario should have been branded with the Echo banner though. Not because "He IS jUSt MaRIo IN a DOCtor cOStUmE!!", but because he shares more moves with Mario than Ken does with Ryu (at lest according to this little helpful article i found, which denotes that Dr Mario in Ultimate shares 95.8% of Marios moves, while Ken shares 73.3% of Ryu's moves), plus he has the same body build (which is probably why other characters like Young Link and Pichu do not fit into echo category), and his Final Smash is much more similar to Mario's compared to other echoes (except Lucy who has the same one as Marth)

Then again if i do bring up Pre-Smash 4 clones that brings up the possibility of labeling Roy as an echo and that would be a UI mess with 3 characters sharing the same base, so maybe that's why they didn't label Doc as an Echo.

EDIT: Not that i care too much since i don't use echo staking, but it's weird for Doc to not be an echo while Dark Pit and Lucina are (especially because Doc was mentioned alongside Lucina and Pit by Sakurai regarding Clones in Smash 4)

That's definitely more reasonable, I think. Doc does have different moves, like his Pill, the Dr. Tornado, and his new down air, but according to Kurogame Hammer, he was literally balanced by just giving Mario stats equivalent to slower but more powerful equipment left over from Smash 4, which is kind of interesting.

On Roy though, I think his changes from Marth are too substantial for an echo label. Back in Melee, sure, but about half of Roy's attacks are completely different from Marth's, with the main source of overlap being their (non-down) aerials and two of their specials, as well as down smash and down tilt. Meanwhile the jab, up tilt, forward tilt, up smash, forward smash, down air, neutral special, up special, Final Smash, and to a lesser extent the dash attack are unique in both form and function.

 

[Lycan Rex]

It's far too early to celebrate just yet, although I have to say... it's kind of nice being on the winning end of the debate for a change

View attachment 204975

Same here. I'll indulge a little. First time making a meme

 

[MonkeyDLenny]

Same here. I'll indulge a little. First time making a meme
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I'm preparing for the best, but expecting the worst

Either way I'm ready

 

[SchAlternate]

Was in a BK vibe, so have some characters.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

 

[Atmoz]

I guess I'm mainly sad due to her words about Steve seeming a bit harsh plus Steve seeming like he could have a personality based on his surroundings and the silly stuff in the game...but, I guess I shouldn't care as she's not someone who's in charge of the game itself, she's just a community manager or someone who works on the Bedrock edition depending on what "Senior Manager" is.

I decided to take a quick search up about the role of a Senior Manager. Numerous sites tell me the same thing: they're responsible for the overall operations and profitability of a company. Their goal is to maximize the organization’s efficiency, productivity, and performance, by making sure all operations are running smoothly. They are quite high in terms of company hierarchy.

Although Aubrey is not on the Minecraft dev team per se, but the fact that she oversees everything Mojang does to ensure the company runs smoothly means that she would definitely be in the know about whether Steve is in Smash or not. Quite safe to say that the Steve tweets she made is a official deconfimation of the character.

Even in her most recent tweet replying to to the parody Nintendo account claiming Steve was in (March 18th), she seems to have kept the same feelings about Steve since the Nov. 2 tweet saying that Steve would not work in Smash with the emoji that has one eyebrow raised. It gives me a impression of "What are you talking about, he isn't in."
It's a bummer for those genuine Steve fans like yourself, but good riddance to most of the troll Steveposters who wanted them in to spite Banjo fans. There will always be the next Fighters Pass/Smash title.

 

[Nazyrus]

It's a bummer for those genuine Steve fans like yourself, but good riddance to most of the troll Steveposters who wanted them in to spite Banjo fans. There will always be the next Fighters Pass/Smash title.

For me the worst part, altho not a surprise because of the site im going to mention… was 4chan and its thousands of threads with that ugly ass model just to shut down Banjo fans, it got old a long time ago and it still doesn't stop. But again… what did I expect from a place like that, lol. It certainly didn't lower my hype and support at any moment anyway, it's just as tiring to see as hearing a joke that wasn't funny to begin with being milked to the core of the earth.
I feel bad for the real fans of Steve but damn the trolls are quite many and surely puts anyone else in a feel of … repel, against the chances to meet yet another one when discussion and speculation sprouts. I just want it to be over at this point, just like I want the Square list situation to be over with Erdrick being the other bunch of trolls posting memes to shut down any other speculated character. It's just sad how dificult is to find proper amount of people and places with open and objective minds without malice against others.