Bandana Dee, the Spear Master! (v(- ' ' -)>↑ ~ Dee wait is killing us...

[Spinda654]

Every single friend of mine that has played Melee and FE: The Binding Blade Said they don't won't Roy back. The FE community didn't want him back. Reasonable smash players who understand that there is already a Marth clone in the game didn't want him back. Then who requested him? Simple! Those nostalgia blinded Melee Fanboys. And basically no one else. NOTE: (This is not to be taken as hate for who wanted him back. It's your wants and opinions after all.).

 

[IAmMetaKnight]

Roy is disliked by FE fans but loved by Smash fans while it's the other way around fir Lucina

But I'm an FE fan. And I love Roi. And I DESPISE Lucina.

Spoiler

JK I love them both

I do think Lucina is one of the most overrated FE character of all time, though. So maybe my opinions are unpopular.

 

[Manic Rykker]

I would've been with you on option A, but it seems Roy is complete; it would be pointless in waiting that long to release him. Even if it would've been awesome....

I split it into two option as we still don't really know how tomorrow's presentation will go down. We know the characters are real now, but we "don't" know how they will be announced. They could be announced together, but then again they could also be announced this month, and next month to keep the hype flowing. I guess we just won't know until tomorrow how things will go down though..

Every single friend of mine that has played Melee and FE: The Binding Blade Said they don't won't Roy back. The FE community didn't want him back. Reasonable smash players who understand that there is already a Marth clone in the game didn't want him back. Then who requested him? Simple! Those nostalgia blinded Melee Fanboys. And basically no one else. NOTE: (This is not to be taken as hate for who wanted him back. It's your wants and opinions after all.).

I'd say he still has a fan base. Especially since he, along with Mewtwo had pretty much been RECREATED by the Project M dev team for brawl.. Either way you look at it, they were both HIGHLY BEGGED FOR veterans.

The way I see it, the more of these pre-ballot DLC characters we see now, before the ballot ends, the less we have to worry about seeing AFTER the ballot.. In my opinion, I would much rather see new blood come out of the ballot than Veterans. That's just my thing. All this brings Mewtwo, Lucas, and NOW Roy out of the picture, so in my opinion this is awesome..

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Every single friend of mine that has played Melee and FE: The Binding Blade Said they don't won't Roy back. The FE community didn't want him back. Reasonable smash players who understand that there is already a Marth clone in the game didn't want him back. Then who requested him? Simple! Those nostalgia blinded Melee Fanboys. And basically no one else. NOTE: (This is not to be taken as hate for who wanted him back. It's your wants and opinions after all.).

Um.... I wanted Roy, and I don't even own Melee. It's not me being a "Melee fanboy", it's me genuinely wanting all cut veterans.

 

[MarioMeteor]

Considering just how well received she's been within the Fire Emblem community, however, on top of her Amiibo being compatible with other Intelligent Systems games like Codename S.T.E.A.M. and Fire Emblem If, I don't think it means nobody's going to pay attention to her. The fact that her blade is even throughout means she would retain her spacing versatility while Roy's blade would specifically focus on close-range, meaning that even if their movesets are near identical, their competitive viability could be radically different the way Marth and Roy were back in Melee. And the fact that she's one of the game's female characters will also immediately keep her popular for obvious reasons that we don't need to get into.

As for all of them, again, what does "irrelevant" mean? Just "hasn't appeared in a game lately"? Does that make top Smash candidates like K. Rool and Isaac meaningless or something...?

Even so, Roy is generally a more popular character with the fans, although I was talking about Smash specifically. I honestly don't know why, but people just seem to love Roy. I'm probably going to end up picking him up if he doesn't get the Marth treatment to make up for me dropping Ike. As for competitive viability, Roy's attacks are most likely going to have more payoff than Lucina's, because of the sweetspot on his blade. For the exact reason Lucina isn't as good as Marth, Lucina probably won't be as good as Roy.

 

[Spinda654]

Um.... I wanted Roy, and I don't even own Melee. It's not me being a "Melee fanboy", it's me genuinely wanting all cut veterans.

I quote from my reply: This is not to be taken as hate for who wanted him back. It's your wants and opinions after all. End Quote. I don't think I need to say more.

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

Even so, Roy is generally a more popular character with the fans, although I was talking about Smash specifically. I honestly don't know why, but people just seem to love Roy. I'm probably going to end up picking him up if he doesn't get the Marth treatment to make up for me dropping Ike. As for competitive viability, Roy's attacks are most likely going to have more payoff than Lucina's, because of the sweetspot on his blade. For the exact reason Lucina isn't as good as Marth, Lucina probably won't be as good as Roy.

With Smash fans, sure, due to being a veteran, Roy has the familiarity edge over Lucina. With Fire Emblem fans, however, I think it's harder to name one of them being more popular than the other without some form of survey data to pull from.

In terms of competitive viability, you do realize why it was that Roy was considered low-tier in Melee, right? I mean, you have comprehension of what spacing is and how potential payoff doesn't necessarily make up for opportunity cost, yes? Because if you do, that has me confused as to why you think a character with even worse spacing than Lucina is going to be better than her. They'll either be extremely close in viability due lacking the sweetspot of Marth's tip, or Roy would be lower because of how his options are less than Lucina's, yet the sweetspot is significantly harder to set up than Marth's on part of having to be so close to the opponent in the first place.

You never really answered me, by the way. What on earth is "irrelevancy" supposed to mean?

 

[Manic Rykker]

Just to give an idea of what we could see "maybe" see these next few months, lets look at the vet graveyard..:

Pichu - This little bugger from Melee was a clone of Pikachu. It was BLOODY fast, but it's electric attacks could damage itself..

Young Link - The original Link clone of Melee. With the presence of Toon Link, I'm unsure how he would be adjusted to differentiate his stats from his two relatives.. His relevance as well is back up the priority bracket, thanks to the 3D remakes of Ocarina of Time and Majora's mask..

Wolf - The brawl semi-clone ( if he can even be called that considering his variation from the other two) of Fox/Falco. He, like Luca's cut weren't very clear. I have HIGH expectations we could see a confirmation on this guy at some point as pre-ballot DLC

Ice Climbers - Cut from Brawl. As we know, these fellows were cut for less... "good" reasons. These guys disappeared from the game due to the limitations of the 3DS. If these guys made a comeback, it would probably be in a form of buffing them up and splitting them apart (Having 4 alt costumes be Popo, and 4 be Nana, so to speak.)

Snake - The cut Konami rep from brawl. Reasons for the cut unknown. Perhaps might have been to do with copyright issues?.. Either way, it could possibly be considered a more worthwhile affair for Nintendo & Konami, what with this stuff being paid dlc.


While a lot of these are clones... it is important to remember this: "They are clones"...

Clones take much less dev time to create. (Especially when you consider how whomever gets announced tomorrow will have been announced just barely a month apart from Lucas..) That said, it wouldn't be a surprise if we see some of these dead fighters come back from the grave as pre-ballot fighters..

As a reminder, before anyone starts raging, I will state again: THERE. IS NO. SUCH THING. AS CHARACTER SLOTS...
That is just a fan created term made by fans, thinking there is some sort of limitation on how many fighters can get in the game.. in reality, that stuff is determined by uniqueness, moveset pools, yada yada, WE HAVE BEEN THROUGH THIS..

There is NO reason for worry here. The ballot isn't even over yet and everyone is already starting to shout doomsday.. -_-

Can we just ignore these guys for now and just think about the BALLOT? The general POINT of these campaign threads?... I am not going to let some simple pre-ballot DLC fighters get to me. It shouldn't get to any of you either...

 

[Cutie Gwen]

With Smash fans, sure, due to being a veteran, Roy has the familiarity edge over Lucina. With Fire Emblem fans, however, I think it's harder to name one of them being more popular than the other without some form of survey data to pull from.

In terms of competitive viability, you do realize why it was that Roy was considered low-tier in Melee, right? I mean, you have comprehension of what spacing is and how potential payoff doesn't necessarily make up for opportunity cost, yes? Because if you do, that has me confused as to why you think a character with even worse spacing than Lucina is going to be better than her. They'll either be extremely close in viability due lacking the sweetspot of Marth's tip, or Roy would be lower because of how his options are less than Lucina's, yet the sweetspot is significantly harder to set up than Marth's on part of having to be so close to the opponent in the first place.

You never really answered me, by the way. What on earth is "irrelevancy" supposed to mean?

Every Fire Emblem fan poll says how Lucina's amazing and how Roy is utter garbage. Serenes Forest is one of the many sources

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

Every Fire Emblem fan poll says how Lucina's amazing and how Roy is utter garbage. Serenes Forest is one of the many sources

Source? Not that what you're saying doesn't work in what I'm arguing, but I'd feel better getting that claim backed up with data.

 

[GhostlyLure]

There is something definitely shady about this Twitch stream (besides the chat)
http://www.twitch.tv/crediar

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Source? Not that what you're saying doesn't work in what I'm arguing, but I'd feel better getting that claim backed up with data.

I looked up FE lord tier list on google, SerenesForest is a source, bit busy now

 

[MarioMeteor]

With Smash fans, sure, due to being a veteran, Roy has the familiarity edge over Lucina. With Fire Emblem fans, however, I think it's harder to name one of them being more popular than the other without some form of survey data to pull from.

In terms of competitive viability, you do realize why it was that Roy was considered low-tier in Melee, right? I mean, you have comprehension of what spacing is and how potential payoff doesn't necessarily make up for opportunity cost, yes? Because if you do, that has me confused as to why you think a character with even worse spacing than Lucina is going to be better than her. They'll either be extremely close in viability due lacking the sweetspot of Marth's tip, or Roy would be lower because of how his options are less than Lucina's, yet the sweetspot is significantly harder to set up than Marth's on part of having to be so close to the opponent in the first place.

You never really answered me, by the way. What on earth is "irrelevancy" supposed to mean?

Of course I know why Roy was low-tier. His options were fewer and not as good as Marth's, his sweetspots and sourspots weren't as strong as Marth's, and his recovery was ****. It's also important to note that this is assuming that Roy is unchanged from Melee. They could very well switch around the spacing/payoff ratio.
By "irrelevant," I mean they haven't done anything lately. Isaac at least made an appearance in Dark Dawn. They don't matter, To put it simply. They've run their course.

 

[Enderman1021]

I'm more hyped for the new kirby music than roy and ryu.

And I don't feel bad about it at all.

 

[GhostlyLure]

I'm more hyped for the new kirby music than roy and ryu.

And I don't feel bad about it at all.

Ice Cream Island OH MY GOD ITS SO GUD

 

[Chandeelure]

I still don't understand why Dream Land 64 is here... hmmm...

 

[GhostlyLure]

I still don't understand why Dream Land 64 is here... hmmm...

Me neither.

This streamer is really weird

 

[Manic Rykker]

There is something definitely shady about this Twitch stream (besides the chat)
http://www.twitch.tv/crediar

Hmm..

Well the fact it is a mario icon doesn't seem weird. After all in the previous Mewtwo datamine we saw several "Mario placeholders". The only real question I have is how this guy got the characters to work in the first place?.. So many questions..

 

[Enderman1021]

R.I.P my hopes and fountain of dreams.

I can't believe dreamland 64 is back though, such an odd choice. I would have preferred fountain of dreams, along with many other people.

 

[Manic Rykker]

Etika is goin nuts over this stuff XD

 

[GhostlyLure]

Hmm..

Well the fact it is a mario icon doesn't seem weird. After all in the previous Mewtwo datamine we saw several "Mario placeholders". The only real question I have is how this guy got the characters to work in the first place?.. So many questions..

The Mario Icon makes sense but...the characters and music cutting off his lack of interaction is weird

 

[Manic Rykker]

The Mario Icon makes sense but...the characters and music cutting off his lack of interaction is weird

I am guessing a lot of this, if this is legit (I mean if this is a hack, it is a VERY good one..), due to the datamine. My guess is these fighters are still in development.. judging by how things usually go, I dunno if these guys are even fully balanced yet. These things usually release like a month after their announcement (which would assumingly be tomorrow)

Also,... if this is legit.. RIP Random Talking Bush, as that guy is SO dead XD

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

Of course I know why Roy was low-tier. His options were fewer and not as good as Marth's, his sweetspots and sourspots weren't as strong as Marth's, and his recovery was ****. It's also important to note that this is assuming that Roy is unchanged from Melee. They could very well switch around the spacing/payoff ratio.
By "irrelevant," I mean they haven't done anything lately. Isaac at least made an appearance in Dark Dawn. They don't matter, To put it simply. They've run their course.

Actually, his sweetspots and sourspots were pretty on par with Marth.
http://www.ssbwiki.com/Marth_(SSBM)#Moveset
http://www.ssbwiki.com/Roy_(SSBM)#Moveset
The fact remains that, while statistically they share very similar damage ratio output, in practice Marth is the superior character due to having the better spacing options. Roy has to move in a lot closer to get the same kills Marth otherwise could, which is what left him lower-tier in Melee. Lucina, while her blade doesn't reach the percentage as high as Marth or Roy, still has options that Roy lacks due to being able to attack from safer distances while still achieving similar effect. Add onto the fact that Shield Breaker is a case of being less awesome but more practical in competitive play than Roy's Flare Blade and that she'll still have customs Roy will otherwise lack... Roy has more power than Lucina in theory, but if it's harder to land close hits with him and his match-ups suffer because of it, then Lucina is going to be the more popular pick in the meta. Not to say Roy still won't be everyone's boy, though, just that he's far from making Lucina "irrelevant".

Dark Dawn was all the way back in 2010, though, so what defines a character as being "irrelevant"? Lucina will still make an appearance in the most recent Fire Emblem game via Amiibo, Ice Climbers were in Brawl and have technically made a 100% attendance rate in their own series (not hard to do when you only have one game lol), and Mr. Game & Watch has been all over the place in games like the Wario series, DKC Returns, and Nintendo Land... All of this said, the fact that you're naming characters that have been in Smash Bros. as irrelevant makes zero sense in the first place. Unless there's some greater meaning to the word, it doesn't matter if you consider them irrelevant when the fact that they're playable in Smash Bros., the highest honor you can possibly give to any Nintendo character, makes them anything but irrelevant.

The Mario Icon makes sense but...the characters and music cutting off his lack of interaction is weird

It's not like someone received an early copy of the final build. Being datamined means there's bound to be a few homebrew-related quirks, and the Mario icon is without a doubt a placeholder in this case.

 

[Chandeelure]

OK, I know this is hype and all that, but this is not a FE thread.

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

OK, I know this is hype and all that, but this is not a FE thread.

Sorry.

In hindsight, this discussion makes a lot more sense on the Character Discussion Thread. I'd be more than willing to continue the conversation there, Meteor.

 

[Chandeelure]

But you can still talk about Dream Land and the Kirby music

 

[SS-bros14]

Back again. Note that I need to change my avatar.
@ Chandeelure
Your avatar.
What am I even looking at.

 

[Sir Gengar de Èctoplasma]

@ Chandeelure
Your avatar.
What am I even looking at.

It's our lord and savior Bandana Deestructor riding his magnificent steed Nruff.

Spoiler

 

[GhostlyLure]

Actually, his sweetspots and sourspots were pretty on par with Marth.
http://www.ssbwiki.com/Marth_(SSBM)#Moveset
http://www.ssbwiki.com/Roy_(SSBM)#Moveset
The fact remains that, while statistically they share very similar damage ratio output, in practice Marth is the superior character due to having the better spacing options. Roy has to move in a lot closer to get the same kills Marth otherwise could, which is what left him lower-tier in Melee. Lucina, while her blade doesn't reach the percentage as high as Marth or Roy, still has options that Roy lacks due to being able to attack from safer distances while still achieving similar effect. Add onto the fact that Shield Breaker is a case of being less awesome but more practical in competitive play than Roy's Flare Blade and that she'll still have customs Roy will otherwise lack... Roy has more power than Lucina in theory, but if it's harder to land close hits with him and his match-ups suffer because of it, then Lucina is going to be the more popular pick in the meta. Not to say Roy still won't be everyone's boy, though, just that he's far from making Lucina "irrelevant".

Dark Dawn was all the way back in 2010, though, so what defines a character as being "irrelevant"? Lucina will still make an appearance in the most recent Fire Emblem game via Amiibo, Ice Climbers were in Brawl and have technically made a 100% attendance rate in their own series (not hard to do when you only have one game lol), and Mr. Game & Watch has been all over the place in games like the Wario series, DKC Returns, and Nintendo Land... All of this said, the fact that you're naming characters that have been in Smash Bros. as irrelevant makes zero sense in the first place. Unless there's some greater meaning to the word, it doesn't matter if you consider them irrelevant when the fact that they're playable in Smash Bros., the highest honor you can possibly give to any Nintendo character, makes them anything but irrelevant.

It's not like someone received an early copy of the final build. Being datamined means there's bound to be a few homebrew-related quirks, and the Mario icon is without a doubt a placeholder in this case.

But I mean, the menu is missing music...the menu

 

[Manic Rykker]

Well the presentation from Sakurai is tomorrow, so we'll have official confirmation on this stuff soon enough if this is legit.

 

[smashkirby]

There is something definitely shady about this Twitch stream (besides the chat)
http://www.twitch.tv/crediar

Hmm..

Well the fact it is a mario icon doesn't seem weird. After all in the previous Mewtwo datamine we saw several "Mario placeholders". The only real question I have is how this guy got the characters to work in the first place?.. So many questions..

Etika is goin nuts over this stuff XD

I am guessing a lot of this, if this is legit (I mean if this is a hack, it is a VERY good one..), due to the datamine. My guess is these fighters are still in development.. judging by how things usually go, I dunno if these guys are even fully balanced yet. These things usually release like a month after their announcement (which would assumingly be tomorrow)

Also,... if this is legit.. RIP Random Talking Bush, as that guy is SO dead XD

Hey guys, what's going on? I'm hearing so much about even MORE character data found for Smash 4 past Lucas, Roy, and Ryu. Is that you all are talking about as well?

 

[GhostlyLure]

Fill us in on what you heard?

 

[Manic Rykker]

Hey guys, what's going on? I'm hearing so much about even MORE character data found for Smash 4 past Lucas, Roy, and Ryu. Is that you all are talking about as well?

Well basically to put it simply, the bomb dropped again. Supposedly our Japanese pals datamined the Lucas patch, and discovered victory videos for Roy and Ryu... I'll leave a link to it in spoilers in case you missed it...

Spoiler

Other than that what else are you referring too? I did hear more mii outfits were leaked too, like a Zero outfit

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

But I mean, the menu is missing music...the menu

Like I said, homebrew related quirks. This is pretty much impossible to fake. Even if it somehow is fake, the fact remains that it was a fake done via a hack, as in, this is still possible to do once Wii U homebrew is publicized the way the Wii's was... But I digress, this has to be the real deal.

 

[Zerp]

Wait, if Roy and Ryu are shown tomorrow since they are finished it seems, will there be someone else shown? Hopefully Bandana Dee is next in line. Obviously it's unrealistic, but I think there would be someone else shown, since Mr. Sakurai is a master at keeping hype going, it seems like a option.

 

[Manic Rykker]

Wait, if Roy and Ryu are shown tomorrow since they are finished it seems, will there be someone else shown? Hopefully Bandana Dee is next in line. Obviously it's unrealistic, but I think there would be someone else shown, since Mr. Sakurai is a master at keeping hype going, it seems like a option.

Well it depends on if they both get revealed at the same time, or if it's gonna be a single reveal like last time... who knows at this point though. MAN today has been eventful XD

Like I said, homebrew related quirks. This is pretty much impossible to fake. Even if it somehow is fake, the fact remains that it was a fake done via a hack, as in, this is still possible to do once Wii U homebrew is publicized the way the Wii's was... But I digress, this has to be the real deal.

Exactly. People are shouting its fake, but there is one thing to consider if that is the case: it is CLEARLY the Wii U version.. I've seen some pretty impressive project M/brawl hack stuff... but there isn't ANYONE who could PERFECTLY replicate the Wii U's menus, quality, character models, and dang stages to a T like what we see in that footage... If it is a fake, it is a VERY GOOD FAKE...

 

[Zerp]

On a off note, I feel bad for Sakurai, like really, the leaker couldn't wait just one more day? Really? It'd be pretty understandable if he's fuming right now.

 

[Manic Rykker]

On a off note, I feel bad for Sakurai, like really, the leaker couldn't wait just one more day? Really? It'd be pretty understandable if he's fuming right now.

Unless this actually is Nintendo, and is some crazy marketing strategy.. and if it is..: IT'S WORKING XD

 

[Deleted member]

In terms of the ballot, I would worry about the newcomers rather than veterans.
Veterans are veterans; they will be requested. Even then, other than Wolf, I don't think anyone else is totally necessary or worth it to bring back.
The newcomers will limit Bandana Dee's potential to get in, so I would worry about them than the veterans.
I have to say that it's scary how they completed Roy and Ryu so soon...

 

[Deleted member]

Best song on the best stage, Dreamland 64 HYPE!