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The only way Lucario will ever kill you at 30% is if A: Lucario is at high or max Aura (which you should never let him reach) B: He hits you with one of the three slowest smash attacks in the game, and C: Your DI is atrocious. If you let Lucario live that long, get hit by an attack that slow, and not DI it, you deserve to lose.
I don't think you understand that being able to kill at that percentage because of Aura combined with Rage is not something a character should do. It's not about deserving who should lose; it's about design and Rage is an absolutely atrocious one. Granted that Lucario is the one that really reaps the benefits from it aside from others, but still a bad design nonetheless. I'll give you the Aura design even though I still find the design of it being stupid, but not Rage.
I agree that Aura + Rage is ridiculous. It's not just Lucario that benefits from Rage, I once saw a Sonic KO a Fox at 70% with an up smash. Rage is just a flawed mechanic that really shouldn't exist. Aura works for Lucario because it's the base of his character. Take it away from him and he's a character that does like 4% per hit and can't KO. It also works because the higher your Aura is, the closer you are to the end of your stock. It's a risk vs. reward factor.
It was uncharged. Ganondorf doesn't kill Fox at 70% with an up smash. There is definitely something wrong there. Aura is just fine, but Rage is just a way of artificially decreasing the length of matches (which barely works).
What stage was it? Low ceiling or not? Is it 3DS or Wii U? (Probably the latter) Was Sonic in max rage (150%?)?
Final Destination, Wii U, Fox was at 68%, Sonic was at 118%.
I wish I could tell you I was joking. Fire Jump Punch kills Fox even earlier than that, believe it or not. Damn thing is so fast though, once in a blue moon you'll ever land one on him. Anyway, the blast zones are the same on Wii U as they are on 3DS. By the way, keep in mind that up smash was uncharged. I **** you not.
I don't think that's true and even if it is Lucas will almost certainly have the strongest up-smash once he's added.
I looked it up and did some testing, smash highlights is wrong. I'm not certain why though I think sonics may have some fixed knockback making it go further at low %s.
Think he just has a sourspot on the end, not really sure haven't spent any real time on him since he's so bad. Anyway I was just hitting with mario beside me while I was on the ground and it killed earlier than sonics
Didn't I just say something with the same point?
You lost me at nerf the Knee. Considering all the trouble you have to go through to land it, why would you nerf it? Especially given all the other ridiculous stuff about him, like his Jab, the fact that 3 of his 4 throws can KO, Falcon Kicks unnecessary strength, that up air, and his up tilt spike. The Knee is pretty fair. And making Luigi go helpless after using Green Missile would be a pretty stupid idea.
1) Less lag on charizards tilts
2) Vastly reduce end lag after landing a flare blitz so he can't be hit while prone after it's shielded
3) Drift further during rocksmash
4) Increased air speed on charizard
5) Reduce start up frames on Fair and Nair
6) Reduce lag on palutenas tilts significantly
7) Reduce end lag on paluntenas reflect barrier
8) Allow megaman to use As while leaf shield is up having it only throw when pressing B
9) Decrease falcon's Fair sweetspot knockback significantly, and decrease damage by 2%
10) Remove 4 wind up frames from falcon punch and add 4 cooldown frames
11) Decrease falcons weight by 4
12) Decrease the effects of lucarios aura and increase base damage to compensate, the effect is just a little to strong and makes him countered hard by characters that can kill him before he gets his aura up high, while countering any low knockback power character since it can go higher.
13) Add 2 startup frames to zero suits Fsmash
14) Slightly decrease ZS weight
15) Add lag frames to sheik all around
16) Decrease the knockback and damage of diddy's U air
17) Decrease diddy's weight significantly
18) Decrease priority on dash attacks so they can be clashed easier
19) Add 2 frames of start up lag to his Fair
20) DKs up special now deflects projectiles, since DK hates projectiles so much
21) Decrease wind up frames on Fair and slightly increase hitbox
22) Shield mode doesn't decrease damage output, but decreases move speed a small bit more
23) Slightly reduce end lag and start up lag on using cannon
24) Decrease duration of Fsmash, making the hits happen faster for the same damage
26) Go to prone after using side special in the air
27) Slightly decrease speed of Fair making it harder to combo
28) Increase range on all smashes and tilts
29) Make copied abilities more powerful than that of the copied ability, no other character has to go through the trouble of sucking someone up to get a special, so kirby should have a slight advantage with his copied ability.
30) Add 2 frames end lag after throwing PK fire, making it slightly harder to combo into a throw
31) Slightly decrease backthow throw power
32) Reduce super armor
33) Slightly increase weight
34) Decrease Uair knockback and increase startup lag slightly
35) Increase pikmin health 50%
36) Increase range on all smashes
37) Increase range on all airals
38) double range of up tilt
39) Increase speed of dash attack
40) Limit the amount of time villager can hold something in his pockets
41) Change Fair to hit at a lower angle so it reaches in front of samus sooner
42) Increase Fsmash range a small amount
43) Increase fall speed of bombs so it's easier to drop them on people
44) Increase gordo momentum so they are harder to reflect
45) Increase fall speed and jump height so he's less floaty
46) Decrease start up lag on tilts, smashes and f air
Your information was off.
The knee KOs way to soon, it's not hard enough to land to justify just how soon it can ko. Also why is being helpless after missile a bad idea? Currently luigi can use it and still use his up special, it gives him really great recovery on a character that already has tons of combos some that kill.
No, my information was right for fighting mario on final destination, my guess is you tested on someone lighter.
His recovery was already hit hard enough as it is from Brawl to the point where Luigi essentially becomes Mac without his double jump. He doesn't need a recovery nerf. Why don't we nerf Fox's recovery too, since he can combo? What about Falcon? Better get Sonic too, while we're at it.
...
Holy **** his Up air spikes?
Sweet-spotted Dair.
You are. Up TILT spikes. God forbid Falcon had an up aerial that spikes. The back of Ganondorf's up air semi-spikes, though, so that's close.Holy **** his Up air spikes?
Or maybe I'm reading it wrong
I was going to say WTF XD
I don't know if Charizard needs to have that big of a buff with Flare Blitz to be honest, but better air speed is definitely one he needs as it would go miles to helping his throw to aerial game. Having some shield pushback on Charizard's Side and DownSmash would be great as well considering Ganondorf and Bowser can do that and it seems fair considering how much end lag the smashes have. Although I think being able to tech out of Flare Blitz would be a nice enough buff for the Flare Blitz problem, but then we would have to also allow teching out of tripping...
1) Less lag on charizards tilts
2) Vastly reduce end lag after landing a flare blitz so he can't be hit while prone after it's shielded
3) Drift further during rocksmash
4) Increased air speed on charizard
5) Reduce start up frames on Fair and Nair
I wouldn't want to live anymore if Falcon's up air spiked.I was going to say WTF XD
Except he can't recover from anything because of that double jump issue. And like I said, Fox can combo better than Luigi, so why aren't you complaining about his recovery?
Honestly the flare blitz thing only comes into effect in two situations, if it's shielded, in which case you take 12% recoil and your enemy takes nothing, that seems a big enough loss without being hit afterward. Anyway it would also let you move sooner after landing but it's still not like you'll really have many new follow ups.
Not to offend, but this is the worst troll attempt I have ever seen.
26) Go to prone after using side special in the air
27) Slightly decrease speed of Fair making it harder to combo
Luigi can recover from bottom of the 3DS' FD (Off-screen, but not into the point where he is inches away from the BZ, that'd be ridiculous) with Cyclone + SJP. As long as he has his double jump, as long as he is not interrupted you can bet 98% he is coming back.
Luigi's recovery has been worsened from Brawl, no need to hit him even more. It's very gimpable for some characters (Hello
and his ridiculous Wizkick and F-air gimps. Hello and her N-air that out-prioritizes almost everything).
No changes Ability to store cannonball, faster smashes, shield-break sweetspot on f-smash, No changes Greater range on f-smash Stronger attacks, slower movement Slightly faster smashes Let Hoo-Ha kill 20% later, nerf Monkey Flip's range Heavy armour, ability to act out of dash attack Faster running speed, slightly better vertical recovery Just make the f-smash's hitboxes more consistent Less lag, more speed No changes No changes Stronger moves across the board, better knockback Less endlag on smashes, retain Shadow Sneak movement Faster u-tilt Sing has a consistent hitbox, ability to cancel Rollout No changes Faster aerial mobility, slightly better vertical recovery No changes Endlag increases proportionately with Aura Less endlag, faster movement, greater damage, lighter body No changes No changes Less endlag, greater damage Leaf Shield reflects projectiles while held, less endlag on d-smash Stronger b-throw, slight damage increase No changes Less endlag on all moves Less endlag on all moves No changes F-smash and d-smash's hitboxes are more consistent Less endlag on f-tilt and u-tilt, stronger windbox on f-smash and d-smash Passes through shields (without damaging) whilst consuming pellets, less endlag on smashes No changes No changes No changes No changes Better grab range, faster grab Luma can't act if Rosalina is helpless Morph Ball crouch-walk (because it's really cool), greater range on smashes Throws launch further, Burst Grenade doesn't put into freefall No changes Lower priority on Spin Dash, weaker knockback on f-smash No changes No changes No changes Less endlag on smashes, Sun Salutation heals doubly if it hits Lower priority on Egg Roll, greater landing lag on d-air Can store Phantom, Din's Fire doesn't put into freefall, jab combo, greater range on smashes Boost Kick doesn't drag upwards, greater knockback to compensate
Pretty much what I just said, just fancier. I'll never understand what possessed Sakurai to nerf Luigi's recovery. He could make it to the top platform in Battlefield in one Super Jump Punch in Brawl, that's a pipe dream here. Not everyone can mash like Boss, so Cyclone is just there to taunt you if you're out of a jump. Like it's saying, "Remember when I could recover in Brawl?"Not to offend, but this is the worst troll attempt I have ever seen.
Helpless Green Missile = Hello another LM recovery
F-air decreased speed = Okay, bottom tier Luigi confirmed
Seriously... What makes Luigi's recovery strong is Cyclone. His air speed is atrocious and his falling speed doesn't help much (5th floatiest, STILL doesn't help). Get hit without your double jump can mean a death sentence.
Unless you are willing to give him Rosalina's or Robin's air speed, which mean top tier Luigi confirmed.
And also, either he has combos or he becomes unusable. I **** you not.
Luigi can recover from bottom of the 3DS' FD (Off-screen, but not into the point where he is inches away from the BZ, that'd be ridiculous) with Cyclone + SJP. As long as he has his double jump, as long as he is not interrupted you can bet 98% he is coming back.
And also, Luigi is the best comboer in the game.
Luigi's recovery has been worsened from Brawl, no need to hit him even more. It's very gimpable for some characters (Hello
If anything, his Cyclone recovery needs less mashing so you don't have to get a machine-gun fingers to pull off a Jumpless Cyclone.
When I read the description for down-tilted side smash I thought that's what the move's use would be. But it's actually useless.
Now what you're saying just makes falco and dr mario closer to fox and mario. Falco needs range on smashes and or more power so he stays the slower clone. Dr mario needs his Fsmash sweetspot the same as marios because arm sweetspot basically just gives him less range. Could also use better pills, maybe a weight increase so he dies slower.I'll go through this sequentially and detail what I'd change:
I'm just spitballin'. You're free to disagree with me if you so choose. :3
Fairly large startup lag, not to great rangeLong windup low rangeMassive start lagLong start lag, low range, the swing takes a while to reach the lower hitboxPersonally I'd prefer weakening the fish, increasing throw distance could help her in some situations.
Charizard's air game is fine; it's just that Charizard has a slightly better air speed than Luigi which is a massive problem for him other than his Bair having a bit too much landing lag and his UpSmash not connectiing both hits half the time. You'd think that being a Fire/Flying type would make him move like Wario in the air, but naw. Instead, Sakurai just screws up the heavies like he always does...It seems to me the main problem with heavies in this game is their Fairs:
I really think that's the main reason you won't see many charizards or DKs, their air game is really lacking, especially DK. Char can at least rocksmash you in the air or flair, DK's specials aren't so good in the air.
I think the start up lag of all four of these chars Fairs should be reduced, and all but Dedede should get more range.
Personally I'd prefer weakening the fish, increasing throw distance could help her in some situations.
