Bad Idea Mafia! GAME OVER! MAFIA WINS!

[KevinM]

I'm really angry still about inactivity.

 

[Tom]

yeah you can post them.

also, kevin, while i understand that inactivity can be a real issue, the only player that i can think of who was inactive without reason is florida. junglefever TOLD people that he was going to be back in just a few days, and there was no deadline. the reason why it became a problem was because marshy and you both shot before waiting.

 

[Ignatius]

Indeed, the biggest problem was that while we only let experienced players play, that doesn't mean they played well.

 

[Chaco]

More People should listen to me. I got Tom, HAndo, and Omni in my most suspicious list (and Ronike but lets overlook that) I investigated omni n3 too. I just tried my best to blend that game and hoped every1 else would do what I was thinking, because if I had pushed for a daykill too hard It would have been obvious I couldn't shoot.

Junglefever. Seriously? Why did you have to get bomb and why couldn't you be their to cc?

PKOH. GJ getting the bombs to claim seriously that helped you a lot.

Ronike, MVP? Great townie.

Omni, Hando, and Pythag, seriously great job you won like the fastest you could have possibly won. I had both Omni and HAndo as scum but still.

Chaco. wtf? why would you be that abvious.

Other townies. Better luck next time I guess.

FF. Wtf why would you go back on your cop role description and not let me use my special abilities. (rotfl)

Yeah, what I was going to do was have that there for later purposes. But it was one of those things I didn't think much through, and forgot you could see it on varying skins. I remember Marshy having done it in TNM, and me not even noticing it. So I figured, I could keep that there for later purposes if I got CCd. But heh, it blew up in my face.

And Pythag, lol.

 

[Tom]

because you are only "lol"ing at us when we are brief with you, chaco, i dont think you get our point. there was no need for you to breadcrumb that you are cop. its an open setup. theres no need to breadcrumb at all - anyone can do it in an attempt to prove that they are that role, but it only proves they were thinking they should prove they were thinking it for a later date. your failed breadcrumb amounted to a cop claim on day 2 when you had 0 innocents and 0 guilties. why do you keep "lol"ing. you did very very poorly. dont be that guy.

 

[Handorin]

If you want the logs immediately Hando, I'll PM 'em to you since they were all originally sent to you anyway.

Or you can wait for me to post 'em in the thread, which I'll do if and when I get the consent of the entire mafia. =)

Nah, I was kidding.

 

[Chaco]

I understand you completely, and my bad. <.<

 

[KevinM]

I hate that people are saying experienced players played bad when as a whole the entire town played really ****ty.

I said that I made a mistake and manned up, but everyone else just seems to believe they played amazing. It's rather ****ing annoying.

 

[Chaco]

Lol I know I didn't. But yeah, I get what ya mean. Anyways, don't sweat it man. Everyone makes mistakes, if they rag on you ignore them. Cause really, I mean it's pointless.

 

[Tom]

Everyone makes mistakes, if they rag on you ignore them. Cause really, I mean it's pointless.

not true at all. we need to be reminded of our mistakes so we dont make them again, but more importantly, we need to learn from other peoples mistakes so we dont repeat them ourselves.

it is very possible to pressure people into getting better.

 

[Chaco]

not true at all. we need to be reminded of our mistakes so we dont make them again, but more importantly, we need to learn from other peoples mistakes so we dont repeat them ourselves.

it is very possible to pressure people into getting better.

True enough, however, is the pressure needed?

 

[DtJ Jungle]

yeah, like me bending over for rockin in TLI mafia.

i err learned from that one.

 

[Chaco]

yeah, like me bending over for rockin in TLI mafia.

i err learned from that one.

Not the wording I would've used for a Lover role.

 

[Tom]

True enough, however, is the pressure needed?

if you continue to play like you are then yes. will you stop asking questions now and just listen to critique from other people without getting the last useless word in for christs sake?

 

[Rockin]

Not the wording I would've used for a Lover role.

stop highlighting things, ****it! XD

 

[Chaco]

if you continue to play like you are then yes. will you stop asking questions now and just listen to critique from other people without getting the last useless word in for christs sake?

It was a legit question, and I don't see why you're getting mad about this. Critique is one thing, and pressure is a complete different one. As you know I've already taken it upon myself, so the pressure isn't needed. I'll end with that.

 

[KevinM]

God all this harshness.

Even upon my loss I had fun.

Ronike you played **** good.

I'm not bitter at all.

Great job modding Frozen.

Good job Mafia you guys played well.

Bad Job Kevin, flip a coin better next time.

Marshy you're so amusing.

Inactives, it's all good I don't hate you all that much

 

[DtJ Jungle]

I did taht on purpose Chaco.

 

[Chaco]

I know, Jungle.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

<3 U, Chaco

 

[Chaco]

< 3 U 2.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

Well, no one really protested, so I'll just post 'em now. Here are all the mafia's discussion logs:

That's right. We aren't just the "Bad Idea Mafia" like the Town thinks we are. We are the BADDEST Idea Mafia.

Handorin, once again you are my Godfather. I promise my goal isn't to turn Rogue on you like in Sleepover mafia.

OMNI WHATS UP CHAMP.

Pythag I'm glad you're back. You are very hard to read.

Okay so here's the deal.

Before the game started, Macman, Marshy, and I all talked about racing to be the first to make a quick-draw shot Day 1 on the most useless player who signed up. Thank God for foresight, because only a few days ago I decided to tell everyone that I'm no longer subscribing to that train of thought, and as a Goon I can't even shoot. But here's hoping that both Marshy and Macman attempt to kill right away, because I'm confident that none of us would be their target.

Thinking about this game from a town standpoint, the best strategy immediately involves having the 2 bombs claim. This is so that the townies do not shoot them, basically nullifying their danger towards the town, and if only 2 people claim bomb, then they have 2 autoclears that the mafia will have to try to kill instead of trying to kill the cops. That is a great town strategy.

The best mafia defense against that, I believe, is having a goon claim bomb. This goon will be Pythag. When thinking about the 3 of us, I don't know why, but Pythag seems to fit the bomb role the most. People would immediately suspect that I am fake claiming if random1, random2, and Tom all claimed bomb, so I'm out, and Omni fits better as a cop claim I believe. Pythag is also very hard to read, which will help us.

Pythag, you are our fake bomb. This will allow the townies to never fully clear any of the bombs, and we can leave all of them alive at Night, at least for a few days, so that we can try to pick off the Cops.

If there is a mass bomb claim, you should claim as soon as possible. Try not to be 3rd. But we will catch a lucky break if we can do this on Day 2 because Day 1 got cut short due to quickshooting.

When we finally do kill a bomb, please note that it will "cause an explosion that will randomly kill one other town aligned player who is NOT also a bomb." So it might (OR might not) become a good idea to have Handorin kill a bomb when it becomes time to the worst-sounding bomb claim during the Day, because it won't necessarily kill him and it could kill anyone else, possibly another townie.

I sent this out earlier on AIM, but if you didn't get it:

[13:41] symptom129: we will talk Bad Idea Mafia strategy later tonight
[13:42] symptom129: but my current plan is that Pythag will claim bomb when required, Omni will claim cop when required, I will claim Villager when required, and Handorin will claim Villager when required.

Cops are what we should really fear. They can simply say "Tom is mafia," and I'm ****ed. "Omni is mafia" and he is ****ed. Pythag, you too can be ****ed. Only Hando is ****proof. So by fake-claiming Bomb, and making them still suspicious, we can use our Nights to kill the Cops. Killing Cops is key in this game.

But if Omni claims Cop with a guilty on someone, we can possibly get someone to kill another townie (or possible bomb), while also fishing for the other Cops. So that might be a good idea on Day 3ish. Being PROACTIVE as Mafia is much sneakier than being REACTIVE.

With a Cop claim and a Bomb claim, you two won't have absolutely no excuse to why you can't shoot. We'll just leave that to me. Also, I think that a Cop might investigate me N1 (call it Ego, but it ****ing happens), so my own counterclaiming Cop would be instant bull**** and if I claim 1/3 Bombs that also just seems bull****. If someone claims with a Guilty on me, we will feel out the situation very quickly, but the odds are that Omni should NOT counterclaim it, but instead, Handorin should shoot me nonchalantly. Don't make a big deal of it, and don't try to use it to inno yourself later; allow other people to make that connection, because if you make it yourself, they will just make one further connection and try to think you are the Godfather.

Handorin is more important than ANY one of us, and we need to remember that. With him alive at endgame, everything gets easier, as we still have a Daykill. We can then control the lynch and manipulate quicklynches.

P S: Study the role PM that you are pretending to be. Do not slip.

In my opinion, a good strategy for town is to come to a decision on someone to kill. Then at this point randomly choose a different person each to day to do the deed. If they are unable to kill the chosen person, then that person will become the target.

What would we do against this (especially since I'm claiming Cop)? With the Cop, can I only shoot people who I have identified as guilty or can I shoot anyone?

Aww, look at me. Already in character.

A few ramblings on this:
by claiming cop and bomb though, we are totally pointing ourselves out to the cops. When other cops claim, and when other bombs claim, omni and I will be the ones investigated (eventually) and killed. however, by claiming bomb and cop, we are getting the other bombs to out themselves and we are also getting at least 1 cop out there. Handorin should be incharge of killing us when guilty's are found.

Another strategy that sounds fun, although it's almost 100% stupid would be to have handorin kill one of us right from the get go. Then sure we lose a mafia, but I feel that would totally give hando time to just barrel through the town.
Just thinking....

Pay attention to the Role PM that you are faking. As a Cop, you cannot shoot at all.

If my post came across as you both claiming immediately, that was my mistake. You are only to claim when it is warranted. However, I suspect that for Pythag the Bomb, your claim will be Day 1 or Day 2, when a smart townie reminds everyone that the best strategy is to have the Bombs claim.

The fact that the Cops may then be focused on the 3 Bomb claims is actually a good thing for us, though to a Townie it might seem to be a dumb scum move. It means that the Cops are spending their investigations on people who, if we hadn't had 1 of us counter-claim, would be confirmed innocent. Also, it narrows their investigations down to 1 mafia of 3 players, the other 2 of which would naturally be confirmed townie by the process of the game and therefore they are really wasting their investigations. It also keeps them from bothering to investigate Omni or Tom until Omni gets a nice chance to actually claim Cop if needed.

So you two aren't claiming immediately, but only when necessary. Do not seem eager to claim, but also make sure you sound like a guy doing his job. Do not make the mistake of getting facts about your faked-role wrong.

Do not refer to people who we KNOW to be Townies as confirmed Townies. This may seem obvious, but it really snags the Scum players when they are using pronouns or modifiers. Make sure to say "IF" he turns up mafia, "IF" he turns up town and not "WHEN" he turns up town.

Do not super actively persecute simple mistakes.

Pythag, you are right in that Handorin's killing one of us would make him seem Townie, but if we do it too early, not only does it leave open situations where Hando-Townie would be nightkilled and he isn't, but it also is proactively making a connection instead of allowing the Townies to do it themselves. If they try to force Hando to clear himself by shooting, then they will most likely assume he is innocent. However, if he takes the initiative and shoots, the town will still actively want to accomplish something, and in turn will take the connection one step further and begin to posit that he is the Godfather and that he organized all of this.

We sow seeds for the town to grow, and they will focus on growing them. If we were to give them grown flowers, they would dissect and analyze them and try to figure out if they were wax. Ya dig?

Omni, you are also right in that a great Town strategy is to have 1 of your suspects shoot the other suspect. If they cannot shoot, they could be Mafia Goon. However, we should keep this idea as far from the Town as possible. If someone mentions it, you do not need to comment on it. Don't play dumb if it comes to fruition, but also do not actively pursue this avenue yourself; the brownie points you get for supporting the method will not save you from the method.

Omni, if this was the theory that you were mentioning vaguely earlier in the thread, then you need to simply pretend that the theory you were mentioning was some sort of knee-jerk "shoot those who shoot for no reason" and that you forgot that Cops, Bombs, and even Mafia Goons do not shoot, and that you would be picking the Godfather out of a pool of Villagers.

Recently, Ronike spinned my argument that Bombs should claim completely against me. It took my by great surprise, because even before the game started and I thought about it from a completely Townie perspective, I thought that the Bombs should claim. So leading with the Townie strategy as a Goon was my plan, and then I planned to spin the Townie strategy to our victory by causing mislynches anyways through blame and poor judgment. Ronike, however, thought about the game from a totally different perspective than I did.

My view was that the Mafia wins when they outnumber the Town.

Ronike's view was that the Mafia wins when they get rid of all Townies (vigilantes, shooters).

From Ronike's perspective, a perfect Mafia game would be as follows:

Scenario: Mafia attempts to kill every Townie
Start: 8 Townies
End of Day 1: Townie death – 7
End of Night 1: Townie death – 6
End of Day 2: Townie death – 5
End of Night 2: Townie death – 4
End of Day 3: Townie death – 3
End of Night 3: Townie death – 2
End of Day 4: Townie death – 1
End of Night 4: Townie death – 0

As you can see, this strategy would mean that as long as we killed a Townie every Day and every Night, we could win the game at the dawn of Day 5. This, however, relies on leaving all of the Cops alive, who will sooner or later claim with a guilty. Really, when I think about this strategy, it is near impossible. It ignores Cops who are our great bane, and it never takes advantage of a doublekill during Day on a Bomb.

From my perspective, we simply have to reach majority on the Townies. This is true because once we hit majority on Townies, they can Daykill and we can Nightkill and we will still win. In all of these scenarios, I assume that the Townies never shoot a Bomb during the Day, even though we are still giving them the opportunity to fall into that trap by having Pythag claim Bomb. However, these scenarios also assume that Handorin hangs onto his first kill without cooldown so that he can quickshoot a Bomb (Nicholas). Technically, Handorin could shoot Day 3 and we could stall with enough mystery on Day 4 for him to shoot a Bomb then, but I am not risking that in these plans. First scenario:

Scenario: Townie never kills Bomb, but Town never kills Mafia [PERFECT GAME]
Start: 12 town, 4 mafia
End Day 1: Townie death – 11 town, 4 mafia
End Night 1: Townie death – 10 town, 4 mafia
End Day 2: Townie death – 9 town, 4 mafia
End Night 2: Cop death – 8 town, 4 mafia
End Day 3: Townie death – 7 town, 4 mafia
End Night 3: Townie death – 6 town, 4 mafia
GF QUICKSHOOT BOMB: End Day 4: Bomb death – 4 town, 4 mafia = WIN

Here, we have won on the Dawn of Day 4 by having Handorin camp the thread and immediately shoot Nicholas when Day 4 begins. Technically, we win at the Twilight phase. This is because Town can never recover. Even if they killed mafia every Day after that, the game would be:

End Night 4: Townie death – 3 town, 4 mafia
End Day 5: Godfather death – 3 town, 3 mafia
End Night 5: Cop death – 2 town, 3 mafia
End Day 6: Goon death – 2 town, 2 mafia
End Night 6: Bomb death – 1 town, 2 mafia
End Day 7: Goon death – 1 town, 1 mafia
End Night 7: Townie death – 0 town, 1 mafia

As you can see, even this situation is as Town aligned and conservative as possible, assuming that we do not leave the remaining Cop and Bomb alive and just kill shooters to silence the Town.

This proves that we win as long as we cause 3 mislynches on Townies and then Godfather daykills a Bomb.

This strategy is proven to be effective even if we lose 1, or even 2, mafia Goons:

Scenario: Townie never kills Bomb, but Townie kills 1 Mafia Goons
Start: 12 town, 4 mafia
End Day 1: Townie death – 11 town, 4 mafia
End Night 1: Townie death – 10 town, 4 mafia
End Day 2: Townie death – 9 town, 4 mafia
End Night 2: Cop death – 8 town, 4 mafia
End Day 3: Goon death – 8 town, 3 mafia
End Night 3: Townie death – 7 town, 3 mafia
End Day 4: Townie death – 6 town, 3 mafia
End Night 4: Townie death – 5 town, 3 mafia
GF QUICKSHOOT BOMB: End Day 5: Bomb death – 3 town, 3 mafia = WIN

Scenario: Townie never kills Bomb, but Townie kills 2 Mafia Goons
Start: 12 town, 4 mafia
End Day 1: Townie death – 11 town, 4 mafia
End Night 1: Townie death – 10 town, 4 mafia
End Day 2: Townie death – 9 town, 4 mafia
End Night 2: Cop death – 8 town, 4 mafia
End Day 3: Goon death – 8 town, 3 mafia
End Night 3: Townie death – 7 town, 3 mafia
End Day 4: Goon death – 7 town, 2 mafia
End Night 4: Townie death – 6 town, 2 mafia
End Day 5: Townie death – 5 town, 2 mafia
End Night 5: Cop death – 4 town, 2 mafia
GF QUICKSHOOT BOMB: End Day 6: Bomb death – 2 town, 2 mafia = WIN


As you can see, if Godfather Handorin saves his shot, as soon as we cause 3 mislynches, we can win by quickshooting a Bomb.

That is our strategy.

Pretty convenient that Marshy gave us a completely free Day. By having fun and killing randomly as soon as Day 1 began, he did us a giant favor. For arguably the best DGamer, he made a huge mistake. I know that he completely clears himself that way and probably stays alive til endgame, but it is not worth killing a Townie. Of course, if he had killed a Goon, I'd be pissed and he'd be a hero, but odds were still with us and they didn't do us wrong.

Pythag has claimed Bomb and will cause confusion during the Day. I highly doubt that the Townies will risk shooting 2/3 real Bombs to try to kill 1 Goon. If they do, the odds are that we can win even sooner. If they don't, Pythag stays alive for a long time and we can just continue to try to target Cops. If we kill both Cops, Pythag has nothing to worry about via nightactions and just needs to seem Townie and worry about scumhunters (they are quite rare these days).

Omni can claim Cop to try to get someone to lynch a Townie. However, the other Cop will immediately counter-claim him. The best chance he has, if we try to use Omni's Cop claim, is for him to come out with an Innocent N1 on a real innocent Townie and a guilty N2 on the REAL OTHER COP. This will make the other Cop's counter-claim most unbelievable. I dont know if we will need to do this, but we might. It might be better just to not claim Cop, seeing as how Chaco did and he is going to die TONIGHT.

Killing Chaco TONIGHT (Night 2) is the best strategy. As you can see above, we should not kill shooters now, but Cops. He has claimed Cop and no matter how worthless he is at arguing and how many stupid mistakes he makes during the Day, if he claims one of us is guilty and then he dies and flips Cop, that one of us is done.

Every townie who has shot, we leave alive. This is in case we need to abuse their cooldown so that Handorin can possibly quickshoot twice, first by quickshooting bomb (then killing a non-cooldown Townie) and then beating out all the other town shooters at a camp to the hour. I doubt we will need this, but we still keep them all alive, as they are NOT Cops.

TL;DR

You're a ******, read all the strategy. <3

We have to cause 3 mislynches and then quickshoot a Bomb.

Tonight we kill Chaco.

We leave all previously-shooter-Townies alive.

We have now caused 2 mislynches. D1 Marshy on Ignatius. D2 KevinM on Florida.

We only need to cause 1 more and we can win.

Handorin, please send in the kill to kill Chaco.

please wait until we find out what Florida was before sending in the NK

if Florida was a bomb and he blows up a Townie, we can win by NOT killing cops.

<3 more to come if Florida is a bomb who blows up a Townie (not Cop)

If not, kill Chaco :3

Tom and I were mathing everything. Here's the final math verdict:

If Florida flips bomb and kills townie, we've won. Math was explained.

If Florida flips townie, we ALSO win. Here's the math:
- Florida flips townie. 3 confirmed shooters. 5 left.
- Night 3. Kill Marshy. 4 shooters left.
- Day 4. Hando Kills KevinM. 3 shooters left.

At this point, we win because we outnumber the shooters. On the offchance that we Night Kill a cop, Day 5 someone will Hando. Then we kill whoever killed Hando. Then the process repeats itself. If we want to win with 2 Goons we need to kill a townie gunner this Night. But regardless, we will win 1 on top guaranteed if Florida flips townie.

The only way this game can stay in play is if Florida flips bomb and kills Cop. The chances of this happening is VERY rare.

Ggs.

He's right:

Start:
8 townies, 2 bombs, 2 cops (12 Town) vs 3 goons, 1 GF (4 mafia)
Day 1 end: Marshy shoots Ignatius: 7 townies, 2 bombs, 2 cops (11 Town) vs 3 goons, 1 GF (4 mafia)
Night 1 end: Mafia shoots Mentosman: 6 townies, 2 bombs, 2 cops (10 Town) vs 3 goons, 1 GF (4 mafia)
Day 2 end: KevinM shoots Florida: 5 townies, 2 bombs, 2 cops (9 Town) vs 3 goons, 1 GF (4 mafia)
Night 2 end: Mafia shoots Marshy: 4 townies, 2 bombs, 2 cops (8 Town) vs 3 goons, 1 GF (4 mafia)
Day 3 end: Handorin shoots KevinM: 3 townies, 2 bombs, 2 cops (7 Town) vs 3 goons, 1 GF (4 mafia)
Now we have a Nightkill to use on anyone. Even if we miss a Townie, there are now only 3 shooters and there are 4 of us. We win.

Hando, just talk to me or Omni before you send in the kill, okay??

 

[Tom]

Yeah, as you can see, our strategy took a major turn when we found out we could win a lot easier than we thought we could.

 

[Chaco]

I feel loved!