Social Back to the Ring: Little Mac Support Thread

Mario & Sonic Guy

Old rivalries live on!
Joined
Sep 18, 2007
Messages
21,965
Location
Mushroom Kingdom
3DS FC
5327-1637-5096
NNID
TPitch5
#41
I haven't been here for a while, but I will say that Jolt Haymaker is one of the few attacks that Little Mac needs improvements on. For starters, its BKB strength is lacking, meaning that it's not safe to use that attack at low damage percentages; fighters can punish Little Mac right back, even if they do get hit.

Also, KO Uppercut's super armor duration when used on the ground needs to be longer.
 

Wario Wario Wario

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 3, 2017
Messages
292
NNID
bubsy3ds
#42
a new Little Mac main here. pretty bummed out by the removal of the cyan alts, but I'm still glad Wire Frame and its hoodie version is back! anyway, other than the alts, looking through his changes list on SmashWiki, pretty much every problem playing with him I can instantly recognise from 2 days worth of maining him casually (I sometimes play For Fun, sometimes I play For Glory!) is fixed in some way
 

PF9

Smash Ace
Joined
Apr 13, 2010
Messages
969
Location
America
#43
I was able to obtain a Little Mac Amiibo recently, which is how I intend to have the character available ASAP.

I will subsequently train the FP, and name him Rocky. Whoever gets the reference gets a cookie.
 

Caravan of Noobs

Smash Apprentice
Joined
May 23, 2016
Messages
143
3DS FC
2621-3128-5801
NNID
TheCrazyPieMan
Switch FC
SW-0260-3374-4829
#44
I think everyone gets the reference. Even those who haven't seen the movies will understand.
 

shinhed-echi

Smash Master
Joined
Nov 8, 2007
Messages
4,671
Location
Ecuador - South America
3DS FC
5301-0890-0238
NNID
punchtropics
#45
I confess I've been losing hype for the Mac.

He was the Character I was most hyped about in Smash 4 next to Megaman. And both share my 2nd-3rd best charact that I know how to use.

But... The fundamentally flawed design is start to take it's toll.

Like, if he's supposed to be awesome on the ground... Then by all means go all the way. They did go all the way in making him useless in the air. Both for attack and recovery.

What could they improve based on his ground-hogging playstyle? Make grab better, and give him kill throws for crying out loud.

You're telling me Marth can raise his toothpick arm and kill an opponent with an up+throw, and Mac can't punch to the chin to deliver a killing blow from a grab?

Also, it starts to suck when you realise you're 1 mindgame away from losing a stock, constantly. That's far less work your opponent has to do to KO a Mac player.than the other way around.

So to put things from my perspective:

Ground game:
- Neutral (really good)
- Grab game (bad)
- KO punch (good)

Air game
- Attacks (really bad)
- Recovery (really bad)
- KO punch (bad)

I'm really not that happy with Mac anymore. And he's my 2nd favorite Nintendo character ever. I'm going to try him out a lot in ultimate, but if he's mostly the same, I'm afraid I'm sending him to the bench. Probably replace him with PT, Cloud, &or Simon.
Heck, I've been getting better results with Pit.

Sorry, I know this is a support Thread.
There are a few changes I really like, like Jolt haymaker, and the auto-edge-snap.
 

Arigarmy

we live in a society
Premium
Joined
Jan 18, 2014
Messages
17,900
Location
the manga
3DS FC
4871-5532-9608
Switch FC
SW 7573 2962 2407
#46
I confess I've been losing hype for the Mac.

He was the Character I was most hyped about in Smash 4 next to Megaman. And both share my 2nd-3rd best charact that I know how to use.

But... The fundamentally flawed design is start to take it's toll.

Like, if he's supposed to be awesome on the ground... Then by all means go all the way. They did go all the way in making him useless in the air. Both for attack and recovery.

What could they improve based on his ground-hogging playstyle? Make grab better, and give him kill throws for crying out loud.

You're telling me Marth can raise his toothpick arm and kill an opponent with an up+throw, and Mac can't punch to the chin to deliver a killing blow from a grab?

Also, it starts to suck when you realise you're 1 mindgame away from losing a stock, constantly. That's far less work your opponent has to do to KO a Mac player.than the other way around.

So to put things from my perspective:

Ground game:
- Neutral (really good)
- Grab game (bad)
- KO punch (good)

Air game
- Attacks (really bad)
- Recovery (really bad)
- KO punch (bad)

I'm really not that happy with Mac anymore. And he's my 2nd favorite Nintendo character ever. I'm going to try him out a lot in ultimate, but if he's mostly the same, I'm afraid I'm sending him to the bench. Probably replace him with PT, Cloud, &or Simon.
Heck, I've been getting better results with Pit.

Sorry, I know this is a support Thread.
There are a few changes I really like, like Jolt haymaker, and the auto-edge-snap.
They do have the little changes that I think improve him a lot though. His standard special can change directions which is already great, haymaker in the air is amazing for recovery standards, and I'm like 200% sure you're able to snipe KO punches from underneath various platforms now with that vertical reach.
 

Pazzo.

「Livin' On A Prayer」
Joined
Oct 3, 2012
Messages
9,175
#47
I hope all us Mac mains are prepared for a new era of ledge -> backthrow.

At least a well timed spotdodge will do wonders.
 

Arigarmy

we live in a society
Premium
Joined
Jan 18, 2014
Messages
17,900
Location
the manga
3DS FC
4871-5532-9608
Switch FC
SW 7573 2962 2407
#48
I hope all us Mac mains are prepared for a new era of ledge -> backthrow.

At least a well timed spotdodge will do wonders.
I've GIMPED Macs but I have yet to get GIMPED.

I am fearful as are the Chrom mains.
 

Pazzo.

「Livin' On A Prayer」
Joined
Oct 3, 2012
Messages
9,175
#49
There needs to be a discussion over optimal recovery.

Right after more serious discussion over what is the optimal costume.
 

Arigarmy

we live in a society
Premium
Joined
Jan 18, 2014
Messages
17,900
Location
the manga
3DS FC
4871-5532-9608
Switch FC
SW 7573 2962 2407
#50
There needs to be a discussion over optimal recovery.

Right after more serious discussion over what is the optimal costume.
Define "optimal recovery", are you talking about avoiding being GIMPed or just how to recover?

I'll only play Wireframe if they fixed that weird *** bug where Doc only says like 2 total lines out of the like 7 he has in the victory screen. Otherwise SNES colors.
Untitled.png
 

PHYTO-1

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 18, 2014
Messages
302
Location
Honolulu
NNID
PHYTO-1
#51
Little known fact from smash4, using an aerial before upb or sideb will very slightly increase your distance. Just pop nair before using one. Most noticeable with upb. Still works in ultimate.

With airdodges being more punishable, its going to be hard to make it back.
 

Pazzo.

「Livin' On A Prayer」
Joined
Oct 3, 2012
Messages
9,175
#52
Define "optimal recovery", are you talking about avoiding being GIMPed or just how to recover?

I'll only play Wireframe if they fixed that weird *** bug where Doc only says like 2 total lines out of the like 7 he has in the victory screen. Otherwise SNES colors.
I was thinking Blue Mac but that works too.

I'm wondering how to get anywhere near the edge consistently when all Simon and Richter have to do is use any move.
 

Arigarmy

we live in a society
Premium
Joined
Jan 18, 2014
Messages
17,900
Location
the manga
3DS FC
4871-5532-9608
Switch FC
SW 7573 2962 2407
#53
Being able to snipe a KO Punch underneath platforms is great, but why do I have to launch myself like a beyblade if I use it while running? If I miss and I go offstage I might as well just drop.

I'm wondering how to get anywhere near the edge consistently when all Simon and Richter have to do is use any move.
To attack or to recover?

All I do to take away a Belmont recovering is a slap in the F(-)A(ir)ce. If they're too far and they whip tether there's nothing you can really do about it, I can't even think of one person who could immediately beat that.

Recovery is also a bit iffy because there's a lot of specifics. If an axe is coming at you from above or below and you're very close horizonatally, just air dodge in the direction towards the ledge and you'll probably grab it fine. If it's at that part of the arc and you're not close at all, I've been able to make it back by countering the axe. The cross is the same, just counter and you should snap back. And if it's holy water I give up and throw the game away because I should never be hit with that in the air. Whip-wise I also counter.

Call me a barbarian or a brainlet but counter just hasn't let me down yet :drshrug:
 

Pazzo.

「Livin' On A Prayer」
Joined
Oct 3, 2012
Messages
9,175
#54
Being able to snipe a KO Punch underneath platforms is great, but why do I have to launch myself like a beyblade if I use it while running? If I miss and I go offstage I might as well just drop.


To attack or to recover?

All I do to take away a Belmont recovering is a slap in the F(-)A(ir)ce. If they're too far and they whip tether there's nothing you can really do about it, I can't even think of one person who could immediately beat that.

Recovery is also a bit iffy because there's a lot of specifics. If an axe is coming at you from above or below and you're very close horizonatally, just air dodge in the direction towards the ledge and you'll probably grab it fine. If it's at that part of the arc and you're not close at all, I've been able to make it back by countering the axe. The cross is the same, just counter and you should snap back. And if it's holy water I give up and throw the game away because I should never be hit with that in the air. Whip-wise I also counter.

Call me a barbarian or a brainlet but counter just hasn't let me down yet :drshrug:
I'll try that out. Any more tips for the transition? I've been tooling around but school hasn't allowed me to really dig into what Mac has to offer.
 

Arigarmy

we live in a society
Premium
Joined
Jan 18, 2014
Messages
17,900
Location
the manga
3DS FC
4871-5532-9608
Switch FC
SW 7573 2962 2407
#55
I'll try that out. Any more tips for the transition? I've been tooling around but school hasn't allowed me to really dig into what Mac has to offer.
My online is poopoo but this is just what I naturally do against these kinds of attacks if my main goal is to blow up reach the ledge only
 

PHYTO-1

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 18, 2014
Messages
302
Location
Honolulu
NNID
PHYTO-1
#56
Little mac got nerfed in such dumb ways. You cant side b again after getting hit- making matchups like falco and d/pit really bad. It also makes side b on stage risky to use. Like if you wanted to use it like in his smash 4 trailer where he uses intangibility to jump over projectiles- thatd be so risky.

They also nerfed his fair where you cant shorthop them with no landing lag. Its one thing to have weak and no range aerials, but to also have ending lag??

Dtilt followups are fewer now. Dtilt to upb is a no-go. You can do dthrow to upb now but dtilt used to be the best. Dtilt to sideb has a smaller dmg% window now where it is true making it suckier.

Cant do jump cancel KO punch or ledge jump KO punch

Cant upsmash bombs and tank it with super armor

Ftilt still inconsistent with connecting both hits, despite the overall multi hit / jab combo being fixed
 

MERPIS

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 28, 2015
Messages
1,578
Location
Prince Edward Island
NNID
Catboog
Switch FC
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
#57
Ya know, I was really hoping for a high or even high mid tier mac this time around, make him finally viable, seeing as they finally made his recovery somewhat competent and usable, but no they completely gutted the thing that made him any sort of decent in the first place, which was his combo game, WHY ON EARTH WOULD THEY SCREW HIS TILTS OVER. That's like brawl falcon, you make him some insanely combo heavy character, but make the game itself have barely any combo potential at all if not none, Mac needed his combos in order to even stand a ghost of a chance against the likes of sheik and netta in smash 4, in this game, where combos are more important than ever, he's left out from the hay day or combos given to characters with already existing combo games or giving characters without any real combo game, an actual combo game. honestly this is the stupidest design choice given to a veteran character throughout all of smash ultimate. Fix it.
 

Arigarmy

we live in a society
Premium
Joined
Jan 18, 2014
Messages
17,900
Location
the manga
3DS FC
4871-5532-9608
Switch FC
SW 7573 2962 2407
#58
Ya know, I was really hoping for a high or even high mid tier mac this time around, make him finally viable, seeing as they finally made his recovery somewhat competent and usable, but no they completely gutted the thing that made him any sort of decent in the first place, which was his combo game, WHY ON EARTH WOULD THEY SCREW HIS TILTS OVER. That's like brawl falcon, you make him some insanely combo heavy character, but make the game itself have barely any combo potential at all if not none, Mac needed his combos in order to even stand a ghost of a chance against the likes of sheik and netta in smash 4, in this game, where combos are more important than ever, he's left out from the hay day or combos given to characters with already existing combo games or giving characters without any real combo game, an actual combo game. honestly this is the stupidest design choice given to a veteran character throughout all of smash ultimate.
Mac's FTilt has always been jank. The only thing that I dislike is not being able to use haymaker again once you're hit.

Or adapt to it. My focus isn't really on combos, it's more preventing combos or breaking them with super armor or reading out with heavy punishes. DTilt to Uppercut don't work, but for me UTilt can usually follow into it at low percents. I hit 2 mil with GSP. I don't think that's a lot but for Mac I think that's considerably good.
 

Bleezyy

Smash Cadet
Joined
Feb 12, 2015
Messages
61
Location
New york
#59
Ok guys, I just got the game.
I took sets off some of the best players with mac in 4.

Now Ultimate we have a lot of problems, its honestly like starting over.

I havent been able to do many dtilt combos. It's actually really bad.
This game seems like the Utilt is more effective.
On heavys I as able to utilt utilt dtilt fsmash up.
seems like we cannot dtilt to KO anymore.
we also have a lot less hit confirm kill options.
Going to be up all night learning new things but honestly this is really bad and im really disappointed in the nerfs.

I don't understand he was already hard to use, why make it harder?
Ugh whatever .. We are in this together and we will figure it out .. STAY STRONG mac friends.
 

Pazzo.

「Livin' On A Prayer」
Joined
Oct 3, 2012
Messages
9,175
#60
I just went like 0-20 against a Ridley.

Not even kidding it was worth it. Getting your guts stomped in makes you learn.
 

Arigarmy

we live in a society
Premium
Joined
Jan 18, 2014
Messages
17,900
Location
the manga
3DS FC
4871-5532-9608
Switch FC
SW 7573 2962 2407
#64
Bullcrap lmao I never actually liked mac over other, good characters that can actually play the game and you know, RECOVER.
There are plenty ways you can recover with Mac. People are so obsessed with gimping him that they forgot he has a counter that pushes him forward.

He's not the best, but only true lads can master the power :214: The only Little Macs I face in Elite Smash are myself, so I take it not many have done so.
 

Bleezyy

Smash Cadet
Joined
Feb 12, 2015
Messages
61
Location
New york
#65
There are plenty ways you can recover with Mac. People are so obsessed with gimping him that they forgot he has a counter that pushes him forward.

He's not the best, but only true lads can master the power :214: The only Little Macs I face in Elite Smash are myself, so I take it not many have done so.
same here , but i got to admit he took some pretty harsh nerfs this game.
 

tronixton

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jan 12, 2019
Messages
8
Location
Texas
Switch FC
5867-4401-4506
#66
Ill admit he has weaknesses, but i love mac as a character, and I feel like he has potential.
 

Arigarmy

we live in a society
Premium
Joined
Jan 18, 2014
Messages
17,900
Location
the manga
3DS FC
4871-5532-9608
Switch FC
SW 7573 2962 2407
#67
Ill admit he has weaknesses, but i love mac as a character, and I feel like he has potential.
He has potential if you read every move your opponent does. :redface: Also if they don't know about KO Punch snipe or fastfall KO Punch
 

Arigarmy

we live in a society
Premium
Joined
Jan 18, 2014
Messages
17,900
Location
the manga
3DS FC
4871-5532-9608
Switch FC
SW 7573 2962 2407
#70
The only buffs that I think Mac truly needs is being able to use Side-B again after being hit or not having FTilt be janky.

buffing his aerials and only his aerials seems like an insult
 

shinhed-echi

Smash Master
Joined
Nov 8, 2007
Messages
4,671
Location
Ecuador - South America
3DS FC
5301-0890-0238
NNID
punchtropics
#71
I confess I've been losing hype for the Mac.

He was the Character I was most hyped about in Smash 4 next to Megaman. And both share my 2nd-3rd best charact that I know how to use.

But... The fundamentally flawed design is start to take it's toll.

Like, if he's supposed to be awesome on the ground... Then by all means go all the way. They did go all the way in making him useless in the air. Both for attack and recovery.

What could they improve based on his ground-hogging playstyle? Make grab better, and give him kill throws for crying out loud.

You're telling me Marth can raise his toothpick arm and kill an opponent with an up+throw, and Mac can't punch to the chin to deliver a killing blow from a grab?

Also, it starts to suck when you realise you're 1 mindgame away from losing a stock, constantly. That's far less work your opponent has to do to KO a Mac player.than the other way around.

So to put things from my perspective:

Ground game:
- Neutral (really good)
- Grab game (bad)
- KO punch (good)

Air game
- Attacks (really bad)
- Recovery (really bad)
- KO punch (bad)

I'm really not that happy with Mac anymore. And he's my 2nd favorite Nintendo character ever. I'm going to try him out a lot in ultimate, but if he's mostly the same, I'm afraid I'm sending him to the bench. Probably replace him with PT, Cloud, &or Simon.
Heck, I've been getting better results with Pit.

Sorry, I know this is a support Thread.
There are a few changes I really like, like Jolt haymaker, and the auto-edge-snap.
.... Oh boy... And this was before I tried Ultimate Little Mac.
You can bet your sweet chocolate bar I hung my gloves in this game, and picked up a Buster Sword.
(Still use him for fun, though).
 

Arigarmy

we live in a society
Premium
Joined
Jan 18, 2014
Messages
17,900
Location
the manga
3DS FC
4871-5532-9608
Switch FC
SW 7573 2962 2407
#72
.... Oh boy... And this was before I tried Ultimate Little Mac.
You can bet your sweet chocolate bar I hung my gloves in this game, and picked up a Buster Sword.
(Still use him for fun, though).
i have no clue on how to use cloud, but everyone who intends on maining mac should probably have a backup if they're trying to be competitive.

my backup is big boi ganon :ultganondorf:
 

shinhed-echi

Smash Master
Joined
Nov 8, 2007
Messages
4,671
Location
Ecuador - South America
3DS FC
5301-0890-0238
NNID
punchtropics
#73
i have no clue on how to use cloud, but everyone who intends on maining mac should probably have a backup if they're trying to be competitive.

my backup is big boi ganon :ultganondorf:
Really? He felt natural to me. (I even broke every mode's record on my 3DS the first few days after I got him).

Oh Ganondorf's pretty good this time around, si great pick!
I used to be Sonic /Mac / Mega

Now I'm going Cloud / Mega / Sonic
.....
(And a bit more casually)
Belmonts / P.T. / Pits / ROB / Princesses / >Mac< / Samuses.

At least I haven't dropped Mac completely like I did Ryu.
 
Top