Automatic L-Cancelling Discussion

[Plebiscuit]

More options and more accessible gameplay are always draws, but I'm not so sure about the decision to allow L-Cancelling to be disabled. The way it's implemented now, it's controlled by an on/off switch in the menu, which is fine as long as everyone's on the same page. Many of my friends are more casual players who would appreciate the function, but if L-Cancelling is disabled for them, it's disabled for me too, and I don't want to erode my Melee/Tournament P:M fundamentals by playing the game.

If L-Cancelling could be enabled or disabled for each player separately on the names page or the custom controls, that would appeal both beginners and veterans and allow people to play the game the way they want, together.

What do you think of automatic L-Cancelling? Is it fine the way it is now? Can you see this feature being tournament legal?

 

[Narpas_sword]

it's hard enough convincing people that we need PM rules that dont just follow melees (talking characters before stage picks)
getting people to allow something as controversial as Auto LCancel in tourney is just a battle that will never be won.

That said i like the option. and perhaps it could be used under gentlemans agreement

 

[Comeback Kid]

Good idea, if your opponent agrees, allow it.

It's not like the better player is going to suddenly be worse because he can't l-cancel.

 

[Paquito]

Heh, saw the 3.6 beta vid and hopped over here to check out the reaction to the auto-l canceling option. The debate over whether or not to include it for tournament play is going to rehash the old

"It's always the right decision, there's no point to it"

vs

"It's still a mechanic people have to master, why make this game easier?"

If I were to guess, I'd assume most tournaments won't allow auto l-canceling, just because it's harder to get people to accept change rather than the status-quo.

 

[Celestis]

The dev team gives and gives, yet people are just never happy.

 

[Mage.]

I'm actually very happy for such a feature because that means it can bring in new players and make casual players more comfortable playing the game because they don't have to worry about L-cancelled aerials. This is especially true for a friend of mine who rages when he loses and partly blames the fact that he can't L-cancel that often. One thing I don't like about it is that some characters you don't really want to l-cancel some moves because it reduces the amount of hitboxes on the move but that's something pretty minor.

As for tournament play, i'm of the "It's still a mechanic people have to master, why make the game easier" so I don't think I'd like it at tournaments.

 

[wiiztec]

L-Canceling is never disabled. The option is between auto and manual L-Canceling & there are no negative effects if you try to manually L-Cancel when it's set to auto.

 

[turtletank]

The dev team gives and gives, yet people are just never happy.

I don't understand, this is perfectly valid discussion. Feel free to drop contribute by the way.

Now my 2 cents,
I'm really happy with the decision to add a toggle. It's an idea that wouldn't have even been humored in early years of development and shows that the dev team really are making a smash game for everyone. While I still think L cancelling is a dumb mechanic, I can understand it's longevity would contribute to alienating current players from melee and PM. Unfortunate, but manageable as long as the option's there.

Opinions will forever be divided on the topic - this is a nice compromise.

 

[Daxter]

I really hope it's used in tournies; I know this sounds dumb, but when I'm trying to learn so many other tricks at such an early stage, I just keep forgetting it exists. When auto is on, I find myself playing much better, because I don't have to fumble around so much; my mind becomes clearer for remembering the other techs.

 

[Beach]

Any new feature is appreciated, personally my friend group and I suck at turbo mode we'll probably use it for that so hey it works out!

 

[Quillion]

**** you PMDev. Whoever came up with that **** needs to be kicked out.

Don't you guys know that having little landing lag and having lots of landing lag just leads to the same thing: an overly safe game with only occassional pokes with barely any opportunity to start combos (in the former) or to continue them (in the latter).

You're just going to ruin this community and meta with that option.

 

[Narpas_sword]

One thing I don't like about it is that some characters you don't really want to l-cancel some moves because it reduces the amount of hitboxes on the move .

I don't think that's correct.

got an example?

 

[Kurodyne]

**** you PMDev. Whoever came up with that **** needs to be kicked out.

Don't you guys know that having little landing lag and having lots of landing lag just leads to the same thing: an overly safe game with only occassional pokes with barely any opportunity to start combos (in the former) or to continue them (in the latter).

You're just going to ruin this community and meta with that option.

Yes, because an arbitrary button press that everyone will do anyways is going to fix the issue

 

[standardtoaster]

I don't think that's correct.

got an example?

He meant the duration of the landing hitbox. If a hitbox lasts 2 frames it will only last 1 frame when L canceled.

 

[KitchenCabinets]

I like that this is a feature for people who wanted it. That said, I'm worried that this is going to cause fractures in our already splintered community.

Like, what if one scene prefers auto-L-canceling and another doesn't, and players from both decide to attend a big tournament? The TO is gonna have to disappoint somebody.

 

[Quillion]

Yes, because an arbitrary button press that everyone will do anyways is going to fix the issue

That arbitrary button press is the only reason PM and Melee are as fast as they are. They provide a suitable mix of low landing lag and high landing lag that allows for fast-paced mental interaction and technical play.

Providing one without the other leads to slowness.

 

[trash?]

you're just straight-up trolling by now, right

 

[Quillion]

you're just straight-up trolling by now, right

No, I thought long and hard about why L-cancelling was so great (I even opposed it in the past).

 

[Narpas_sword]

think harder, i say.

 

[GP&B]

It's the same mentality from the other thread. You sincerely don't understand why fighting games become the way they do at a top level.

 

[Bleck]

there are two kinds of people; people who don't want auto l-canceling and people who smell nice

 

[Narpas_sword]

the only thing i want is for it to be triggered by a handicap value. so i can turn it on for individual users.

 

[zpxociv]

L-cancelling should have been made into something that causes different effects with both pros and cons to consider and also being visual enough to read and react to. This would have made it better and perhaps not something people would just want to automate. I'll keep auto L-cancel on for sure because as it stands, L-cancel is just a pointless chore. Glad the PMDT is listening to all the fans and not just the angry/vocal melee conservatives.

 

[Kurri ★]

L-cancelling should have been made into something that causes different effects with both pros and cons to consider and also being visual enough to read and react to. This would have made it better and perhaps not something people would just want to automate. I'll keep auto L-cancel on for sure because as it stands, L-cancel is just a pointless chore. Glad the PMDT is listening to all the fans and not just the angry/vocal melee conservatives.

I'd love it if L-Canceling actually had some sort of risk or cost to it, but with the way the game is built right now, I don't see it being an easy task. PMDT would have to completely rebalance the game. Although, maybe it already is, not sure, there'd have to be some testing done.

Not sure how it'd work in a game like Smash, but I think something like Roman Cancel be pretty cool.

 

[Jaedrik]

More options are always good.
Rulesets are given to the sovereignty of TOs.
There is no splintering to be worried about.

 

[Pwnz0rz Man]

Having the options available is a good concession. However, I don't think that it should be primarily toggled on for tournaments as it's not the default mode in game. Tournaments should be run with the game on default, with perhaps the only settings the players have control over being changing their controller scheme and turning off rumble.

 

[wiiztec]

I made it so it only flashes when you do the input [URL]http://www.mediafire.com/download/ib1ib6y4b7rrl9w/RSBE01.gct[/URL]

 

[Slashy]

I think it is great that the Project M team is allowing it to be optional since its merits and flaws are both valid. I don't think it should be tournament standard, there's really nothing stopping people from hosting a tournament that has it on though.

 

[McSlur]

Any new feature is appreciated, personally my friend group and I suck at turbo mode we'll probably use it for that so hey it works out!

This, I suck at turbo mode mostly cause when I try to L-cancel after a hit I just cancel the attack into an airdodge >.>

 

[Quillion]

It's the same mentality from the other thread. You sincerely don't understand why fighting games become the way they do at a top level.

I don't care **** about the top level.

The Journey is much more fun than being there, and that's what matters with Melee.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

If I ever host a large PM tournament in the future, I am forcing it to be turned on.

 

[CORY]

I don't care **** about the top level.

The Journey is much more fun than being there, and that's what matters with Melee.

then... play melee?

 

[wiiztec]

I updated the link in my post above don't use the old one it reduced lag by 1/3 instead of 1/2

 

[Pseudomaniac]

I always kind of wondered what purpose L canceling served. Competitive games are about making choices and L canceling isn't a choice. It's just an extra button press that always yields a better result than not pressing it. All it does is make the game less accessable without increasing competitive depth.

 

[9bit]

This is really gonna help with me and my buddy playing netplay. Our computers aren't that great and the connection isn't always very solid, so this will be a great feature to turn on for that.

I'd love to see a PM tournament with auto-L cancelling turned on. Then we could finally see that it wouldn't actually affect things all that much. Hell, you could bring your more casual friends to it! They'd certainly feel better playing, even though they would of course get their asses kicked.

 

[Kurri ★]

This is really gonna help with me and my buddy playing netplay. Our computers aren't that great and the connection isn't always very solid, so this will be a great feature to turn on for that.

I'd love to see a PM tournament with auto-L cancelling turned on. Then we could finally see that it wouldn't actually affect things all that much. Hell, you could bring your more casual friends to it! They'd certainly feel better playing, even though they would of course get their ***** kicked.

B-But muh arbitrary skill wall!

It'd be cool, but I doubt it'd pick up steam. Any time someone says make L-Cancel automatic, someone always brings up how L-Cancel is like Dribbling. Which aren't the same at all actually. Just go to /r/smashbros and try it out.

 

[Kaye Cruiser]

I updated the link in my post above don't use the old one it reduced lag by 1/3 instead of 1/2

Link doesn't work.

 

[Narpas_sword]

the whole l-canceling thing is people scared of lowering the skill floor, forgetting that it doesn't affect the skill ceiling at all.

 

[wiiztec]

Link doesn't work.

Fixed

 

[Kaye Cruiser]

Fixed

The link still isn't working. When I click it, it takes me to the "Invalid or Deleted File" page.

http://www.mediafire.com/download/ib1ib6y4b7rrl9w/RSBE01.gct

I think you messed up when you tried to edit the link. The look of the url is one thing but the actual url hyperlink is another. I copied the url location to another tab and it failed, but I copied just the text alone and it worked.

--> http://www.mediafire.com/download/ib1ib6y4b7rrl9w/RSBE01.gct This works.