Australian Competitive Brawl Ruleset Discussion *Update: 15/05/08* *Spoilers*

[Bjay]

Next issue to hear some opinions on: Zero Suit Samus armor shards.
Personally I find them to be easy enough to catch, reflect, dodge etc. and rather enjoy the extra element they bring into the start of a match. They aren't superior in strength or knockback and are only slightly in ZSS favour with start location. Views please?


Feel free to discuss.

If it isn't superior in strength and knockback and is only a start thing, then that's alright I reckon. I mean it's not like she gets a free stitch face at the start, and the suit is temporary, a one off.

Characters have their 'items', I'm sure the suit wouldn't last long like the banana peel. I'd just consider it to be another turnip, bomb, banana, motorcycle, etc.

...I can't seem to explain this well lol.

Plus as mentioned, it can be caught, reflected, dodged, blocked, and what not.

 

[Mic_128]

It's just the same as Peach starting with a normal turnip, or any other character with a projectile.

I'm iffy, leaning towards ban on Sky pillar, but if it is allowd I agree 300% on a restart on Creslea. That....thing, killed me 3 times in a 3 stock match, each time on about 50% Kill the *******.

Delphino I'm leaning towards a counterpick because it's a moving stage and yadda yadda, but as moving stages go, it's not very drastic, and I could see it going neutral.

 

[Cronos_Rainbow]

The suit doesn't last long but can last long if its constantly thrown and regrabbed. It's easy to just throw it(them - three) off the stage if you don't like it however - never to be seen again.

Mmm...yeah the poke*** is a *****.

As for Delphino. The stage itself doesn't do much moving. The scenery changes a lot - but the stage shifts shape a lot, which is rather dramatic at points. I think is what you meant since you play Brawl, and assume you find the changes only lightly concerning. I think this should be tested by everyone against Cats or any other butthole who takes advantage of cheap things like that before making a decision perhaps ?xD

 

[Scrubs]

ZSS armor pieces don't bother me either.

They only give her a slight advantage because they are at her feet at start of the match.

However once she tosses one at you. They don't really advantage her any more.

 

[Mr. Phantasmo]

ZSS's broken armor are like bombs/turnips/waddle dees (the things Dedede has) and other character items except they will dissappear after a while so I have no issue what so ever, I can't remember the knock back on them but even them I'll be more worried about her whip..... it challenges my ping-pong honor .

 

[Scrubs]

Spear Pillar is concerning.

Despite the things that have already been mentioned. There are other problems.

- Camping in the bottom half of the stage to live to pretty high percents. The stage being destroyed limits this somewhat but it is still possible.

- In regards to canceling on Cresselia I agree. I think we should cancel on Palkia as well and only play Dialga. It's hazards don't affect the game as much as Palkia's do.

 

[Cronos_Rainbow]

The hazards are essentially the reason someone would pick this stage to begin with IMO. A good chance to employ some lateral thinking and stress the mind with the backwards controls xD.
As for camping- I know precisely what you're speaking about - it does allow for better longevity. I do think however that perhaps we should treat this as closely to the walls in Shadow Moses as we possibly can - just seeing them more of a vertical barrier rather than a horizontal one. Mini Hyrule could be concerning, but it seems to be that the hazards create enough of a distraction to disallow any full-fledged form of camping.
At next chance I'll have as many people as possible test this further and try get some good data.

Also Scrubs - sorry I was so harsh in a previous post - had to p!ss off that Eldin talk - even if it meant replacing it with 'omfg Shaz is a &^#$' talk.

Adam - win

 

[Sirias]

Beeeennnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn... =]

I can't really contribute anymore onto this thread because I don't really know much about the other stages.
Delfino, though, seems ok for neutral.
Though counter-pick seems to be the 'in thing' now.

And as for armour parts LOL, too bad, get used to it.
And it's not really the same as turnips or anything because you can pick up turnips over and over, where-as you only have 3 or however many armour parts... and no more. Plus aren't the armour parts sort of damaging, or was it hit-back... MEH.

 

[Mic_128]

They have more hitback and damage than turnips, but as you said you get about 3-5 parts and that's it.

Also played some of Delphino, I can see that being neutral, same with Haleberd too really. Only "danger" is the laser and that's really easy to dodge.

 

[Scrubs]

Yeah armor parts are more damaging than turnips and they travel pretty fast. They are fine though.

 

[Sloth]

Hrm. I am away for two days and still nothing I said was properly addressed or taken into account. Oh well, its moved on., means I don't need to repeat myself again. Hurrah!

Zero Suit Samus armout parts are fine, don't see them ever being an issue.

I just have one thing to say and I will leave it at this for now. I won't be on the net enough to stay up-to-date with what is happening for the next month or so.
Is adding more cancel stages / banning stages really an ideal soluction to including more neutrals? or is it only me that sees this as sort of an un-sortly paradox of what is deemed fair/counter-balanced?

P.S to Cao and Kas, when I debate I rather just use simple logic, even tho it may seem a little harsh, but there is no need to bring my emotional love-hugging side into such a topic, as it is only fruitless and leads no where.

 

[Sirias]

Don't get stubborn, there's no point in being a happy-happy-chappy here, is that what you're saying? Lol. You can be happy and argue, although your point doesn't get heard as well, but you're not being heard at all now are you? So why be a poopy-snoopy? Oh well, I won't go any further with this because I see it turning into an argument. Boo!

It's 'a' solution from the many that we have, however I think adding more stages that'll likely be banned/canceled won't really get anywhere.
You never know, that's why we have trial-and-error, which is what I'm guessing is going to happen with the first couple, or few, tournaments (that include Brawl obviously).

As for what you said if it isn't getting resolved through disputing over the boards then I doubt doing it anymore will really help anyway. OH WELL!

PUTTING THINGS INTO PRACTICE IS BETTER.
But of course forward planning is always better. =]

You aren't 'an' emotional love-hugger either, Bryce. D: You're 'THE' emotional love-hugger. Yey. =]

Enjoy your time in Tasmania!!

 

[Cronos_Rainbow]

IMPORTANT:

NEUTRAL STAGE ADDITION:
Delfino.
While it's changes do give bias towards some characters, the stage itself has been given the thumbs up by enough people so we can probably safely say everyone will be happy with it. If at some point in the future it becomes a problem that some characters can do the things we've predicted may occur this can be reviewed.

BANNED STAGE ADDITION:

Electroplankton.
Sadly this stage just has too many unfair camping options and the like. It's probably better to pull the plug on it now rather than later as it's a clear problem.

DEDEDE RULE:
As a step to please everyone and make this game as fair, fun and enjoyable as possible we've come up with this particular solution.
Dedede may not be played on the following stages.
-Delfino
-Corneria
-Eldin
-Mario Circuit
-Onett
-Shadow Moses

These stages have either the walk off edges many have complained about in relation to Dedede, or a solid wall that Dedede can use the same method to work up percent as much as he likes without any chance of retaliation.
Hopefully this rule will satisfy everyone, as stages aren't being banned that are otherwise highly viable, and Dedede enthusiasts are still more than welcome to compete in tourney as long as they abide by this rule.

I hope everyone finds this to be a good move. If so we can go ahead with it and with any luck everyone will feel their opinions have been taken into account, and no-one will feel as if they don't have a say .

 

[Sloth]

lol. So much for me staying quiet. However, I won't delve in too deep as I will allow everyone else input before I spark into debating again. Step by step.

NEUTRAL STAGE ADDITION:
Delfino.

My thoughts of Delfino is simple, give it a try in neutral, I only have a few problems with the stage myself but it is also my perception of neutral stages. If I was to run a tourny in QLD I'd put it on counter myself.

BANNED STAGE ADDITION:
Electroplankton.

Agree on the ban, but just a slight input. Isn't camping an non-issue since you also want to allow stages which endorse camping more then anything?

DEDEDE RULE

This is the only main thing you've posted that I have an issue with. I strongly disagree with banning a character on certain stages over banning the stage. Plus its only a problem on Walk-Off stages as it is pretty easy to not get stuck on a solid wall. Come on, we avoided fox shine (sorry for melee reference) well enough.

However, this is my over-view. I will let others post there thoughts before discussing any further.

 

[Darkwing SykeDuk]

The fox infinite was a lot harder to pull off in Melee than grabbing someone in brawl. I don't think corneria should be banned, because (again melee reference) fox could do his infinite on it, but from what I've seen the majority of fox players stick to the top of the ship. You could easily counter a dedede's strat on Corneria by merely staying off the end of the ship.

 

[Scrubs]

IMPORTANT:

NEUTRAL STAGE ADDITION:
Delfino.

Yeah it is a great stage. I don't really see a problem with this one as neutral. I will edit the main page.

BANNED STAGE ADDITION:

Electroplankton.

Absolutely agree this stage promotes camping.

DEDEDE RULE:
As a step to please everyone and make this game as fair, fun and enjoyable as possible we've come up with this particular solution.
Dedede may not be played on the following stages.
-Delfino
-Corneria
-Eldin
-Mario Circuit
-Onett
-Shadow Moses

I don't like it. Just ban the stages. Or don't ban them and suffer the wrath of DeDeDe. Don't sit on the fence. Either ban them or don't. Making exceptions for one character is unfair.

If people are adamant on keeping this rule I will say one thing.

If someone is playing DeDeDe these stages should be banned. Not the other way around.

PEOPLE SHOULDN'T BE FORCED TO CHANGE CHARACTER.

Characters are a much more important part of the game than stages. They add far more depth to the game.

If you ban DeDeDe on certain stages you are removing 32 unique match ups or you could just ban 6 stages.

32 or 6 tough decision.

 

[Mr. Phantasmo]

I must say I don't like the idea of banning stages from a charater but from what I've read about Dedede's chain grab it's also the most logical. I supose though during a tournament if both players agree, the big *** could be played on one of his banned stages (you would have to be pritty confident in yourself though lol).

 

[Atticus]

Ridiculous......

If people are adamant on keeping this rule I will say one thing.

If someone is playing DeDeDe these stages should be banned. Not the other way around.

PEOPLE SHOULDN'T BE FORCED TO CHANGE CHARACTER.

Characters are a much more important part of the game than stages. They add far more depth to the game.

If you ban DeDeDe on certain stages you are removing 32 unique match ups or you could just ban 6 stages.

32 or 6 tough decision.

The rule should just make it so the DeDeDe player can't choose one of those stages as a counterpick (or if selected on random neutral, auto-cancelled). I don't think anyone was suggesting people could be forced to change character - if DeDeDe's opponent is the one counterpicking, they're welcome to pick those stages but will have to do so at their own risk of horrible chain grab death.

 

[Scrubs]

The way the new rule is written doesn't clarify whether or not the person must change characters.

 

[Redact]

agree with atticus's style of the dedede rule, its better that way rather than stopping people from playing him

 

[Mic_128]

Electroplankton isn't that bad a stage, there's worse ones than that.

And Banning Dedede from being on selected stages? Horrible idea. Either ban the stages for all or don't.

 

[Sirias]

Ok, we've got the 'don't ban Dedede ban the stage' thing sorted.
Or do we.
If it's chosen then you're in tough luck, or you can cancel (and with a stage Ban that's potentially 2 of those stages already so it's really only 4).
Gogo Dedede I wub his beak. c:

And doesn't Fox have an infinite shine against a wall thing in Brawl?
Where you just hold down + b against a wall and they... they just get pwned?
Or is there a space in the time that it takes to do the next consecutive shine to get out of it?

I haven't seen anything done with the ICs.
Bryce you'll have to show me what they're like.
Cbf looking for videos, like heck I'ma watch Brawl videos.

 

[Scrubs]

The reason that it is unfair to not let DeDeDe play on some stages is this:

He cannot take advantage of the aspects stage (other than chain throw) whilst other characters can.

For example Corneria besides the wall this stage does hold some other positives for DeDeDe.

Principally the low ceiling. DeDeDe's up-tilt can kill at pretty low percents on this stage. However since DeDeDe can't pick this stage he can't take advantage of it.

Other characters with strong vertical KO moves like Fox, Ivysaur, Lucas, Ike, Ganon etc.... can still use this stage to their advantage.

Either ban the stage or don't ban it.

 

[Mic_128]

We could just ban infinite chain throws, similar to banning wobbling.

 

[Darkwing SykeDuk]

Now now Mic we don't want to start using logic.

 

[Mic_128]

Yeah, I dunno what came ove me.

Anyway, it's clear that Gamecube controlers allow this to happen, so Ban GC controllers for Dedede. It's Wiimote or nuthin.

 

[Scrubs]

Hahaha I would agree with banning infinite throws.

But it is too hard to police.

And how many times can DeDeDe do it before it's illegal. To what percent?

Its easier to just ban the stage when you get to that point.

 

[undead_moose]

Why dont we ban playing all together and get a level 9 to represent us?

While we are at it why dont we ban breathing! doesnt do any good for anyone

also imo smash balls on for lulz

 

[Darkwing SykeDuk]

It's not at all hard to police. If your playing against someone who grabs you more than twice in a row with the d-throw, you stand up and hit them with your controller.

 

[Sirias]

Zac wins. c:
It'd only really be 'chaining' if you're up against a wall.
If you're being thrown across the stage then it's ok, unless of course it's a walk-off stage. c:

"Principally the low ceiling. >> DeDeDe's up-tilt can kill at pretty low percents on this stage. << However since DeDeDe can't pick this stage he can't take advantage of it.

Other characters with >> strong vertical KO moves like Fox, Ivysaur, Lucas, Ike, Ganon etc.... << can still use this stage to their advantage."

Ben, I'm beyond positively sure you've said that before.
Deja vu isn't kool, tell me you've said that before.

Agree with Zac again.
Since when did we ever think logically, bah.

 

[Cronos_Rainbow]

"If you ban DeDeDe on certain stages you are removing 32 unique match ups or you could just ban 6 stages.

32 or 6 tough decision."

Intensely wrong. If each of those 6 stages were to have 37 playable characters competing up against all the rest of the cast including themselves - the math on it overwhelmingly supports the removal of Dedede altogether. With the rule to remove Dedede only from stages that allow him to completely dominate with the down-throw hax - neutral stages remain viable, counter picks are faired up and none of this 2x stage ban and cancel which STILL wont sort out the Dedede thing, but will certainly remove a lot of balance from the rest of the casts game. Only 6 stage bans would stop the Dedede player being able to have an 'assured' win against you......Everyone ok with 6 stage bans? I didn't think so.

"We could just ban infinite chain throws, similar to banning wobbling."

As it is I haven't been to an Australian tourney EVER that I have not seen the rules on banned stages/techniques being broken at least one time. After that, we then enter the realms of 'what constitutes a chain throw?', as linking Dededes grab to another grab isn't exactly unique to him alone - except for the fact he can continue doing it regardless of percent, where other characters can not. It's just finicky and painful to even imagine.

"The reason that it is unfair to not let DeDeDe play on some stages is this:

He cannot take advantage of the aspects stage (other than chain throw) whilst other characters can.

For example Corneria besides the wall this stage does hold some other positives for DeDeDe.

Principally the low ceiling. DeDeDe's up-tilt can kill at pretty low percents on this stage. However since DeDeDe can't pick this stage he can't take advantage of it.

Other characters with strong vertical KO moves like Fox, Ivysaur, Lucas, Ike, Ganon etc.... can still use this stage to their advantage.

Either ban the stage or don't ban it."

So basically "It's unfair to disallow convicted pedophiles to work at childcare centers because it's disadvantaging them from other benefits of working there such as a wage"

This is not the sole low ceilinged stage. If players want to use a character with certain kills, they must take the cons along with that pro. I'm personally not going to stand for punishing the rest of the 37 cast heavily not to mention fans of those stages just because of one imba. technique on one character.

"Electroplankton isn't that bad a stage, there's worse ones than that.

And Banning Dedede from being on selected stages? Horrible idea. Either ban the stages for all or don't."

There are - and they're already banned also.
Fine - then Dedede himself will be completely removed from the tournament, thereby reducing this whole argument to zero - and making those fans of Dedede sorely disappointed but h3ll - don't go turning around saying that we never offered an alternative. This is a competitive game for money! They don't let people drug their horses - they DO however handicap them if need be.

 

[Sirias]

Harhar, no wonder, everyone's thinking with money on the line, whereas I'm just looking at it as a game for fun.
Well don't know about 'everyone' but since this is the 'competitive' thread, I'd assume so.

I would think banning being able to chain-throw to death would be a good idea, don't you?
At least Dedede would be able to be in the tournament that way.
Or, if we don't, then that's tough luck for whoever's going against a Dedede player.
Anyway whoever does do the chain-grab to death is lame and shouldn't even be in a tournament.
Although it does take a little bit of skill, it's just gay.
... Sorta like ICs grab in Melee. Since there're 'some' characters that 'can' get out of it.
Otherwise not you should just play carefully and not get grabbed.

Dunno.
Melee reference for lose.

 

[CATS]

scrubs i think due to the wording it was misunderstood.

if dedede is chosen as a character those stages join the banned stage list unless the opponent wants to fight dedede on one of them lol. there is no stopping anyone from playing dedede, just stopping anyone from fighting dedede on particular stages that cause instant loss of stock without a counter to it.

to clarify again: if dedede is chosen then those stages become banned, NOT if the stage is chosen dedede is banned.

this rule both prevents dedede from choosing stages he can insta **** people on, but also it's a small advantage in that he has to worry about less stages total and therefore doesn't need experience on them. so while he can't get the benefits from those stages, he doesn't need to worry about the benefits others have on them... unless the opponent is masochistic lol!
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

banning his d-throw linking into itself is a stupid idea for 2 reasons,
the first being that it is hard to police and gives an unnecessary burden to the dedede player in that match to stop himself from performing this illegal action too many consecutive times, and if he does 2x d-throw then a neutral A then a d-throw again does that constitute it being illegal? it's ******** to try and police it.
the second reason is that it is a part of dedede's game and is a perfectly legit maneuver to rack up percent on someone and get them to the edge of a stage where he might possibly be able to edge guard. just like marth abusing his aerials the dedede should be able to abuse d-throw if he chooses to, just not in a way that causes instant loss of stock for someone.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

allowing multiple stage cancels and stage bans wrecks any persons plans for counterpicking their opponent to gain a stage advantage and is a stupid idea. it doesn't even help any way with dedede since he has 8 possible stage options to kill people which would mean you need 8 stage bans to prevent him from gaining that advantage. 1 stage cancel and 1 stage ban is more than enough, and people should realise that any more is just greatly disadvantaging themselves.

cats out :3

 

[CATS]

i'm going to double post for the sake of seperating the info. the proposed stage list atm is: (not official until confirmation by cao)

--NEUTRAL--
battlefield
final destination
yoshi's island
pokemon stadium
lylat cruise
castle siege
smashville
delfino plaza (D)
bridge of eldin (D)
corneria (D)

--COUNTERPICK--
luigis mansion
great sea
norfair
frigate orpheon
yoshis island
jungle japes
battleship halberd
rainbow ride
brinstar
pokemon stadium 2
spear pillar
distant planet
skyworld
pictochat
mario circuit (D)
onett (D)
green greens (D)
shadow moses island (D)
green hill zone (D)

--BANNED--
mushroomy kingdom
rumble falls
hyrule
big blue
port town
warioware
new pork city
the summit
75m
mario bros
flat zone 2
electroplankton

(D) signifies the stage is not selectable if someone is using dedede.

of course there are some stages where dedede can still hax you via walls and walk off edges, but on these stages they're either transitions or you should be able to avoid the grab with proper tactics, you also have the option to wait it out too.
for those curious, these stages are:
pokemon stadium (wall in rock and fire stages)
castle siege (second transition has walk off edge)
great sea (when the ship crashes onto the rock it becomes a wall)
frigate orpheon (a wall forms for about 3 seconds when the platform drops down)
rainbow ride (a wall exists on the ship in the first part, and later just before the falling blocks)
distant planet (walk off edge)
pictochat (the face and the hand is a wall, the 3D bricks are also a wall)

you'll notice i listed the other hax stages shaz didn't making a total of 8 dedede banned stages, and for discussion i listed the ones he can do it on that aren't as bad as the ones marked with a (D)
;3

 

[Scrubs]

So basically "It's unfair to disallow convicted pedophiles to work at childcare centers because it's disadvantaging them from other benefits of working there such as a wage"

DeDeDe

LOL not the same thing, that is a terrible example.

First of all a pedophile chooses to be that way, he is not born infatuated with kids...etc

I don't even know why I am rebutting this. It is a stupid argument.

It is more like. A situation of discrimination. Just because DeDeDe was born different he can't enjoy the benefits that 'normal' people can.

It is silly to make exceptions like that. It is unfair.

Stages

As for stages adding more depth. Nope. A stage is a stage. Everyone faces the same challenges on it.

Are you saying that reverse controls on sky pillar affects every single character differently. No it doesn't.

There are 6 unique stages. Not 6 x 32 characters.

Stage Bans

I'll use simple math to demonstrate why we should have 2 bans.

The whole point of banning stages is to remove stages that you think disadvantage you character. With the large amount of counter stages 19!!! 1 stage ban isn't enough. Your opponent will just pick a similar stage.... Okay

Melee:

1 ban / 8 counter stages

Ratio 1:8

Brawl

2 stage bans / 19 counter stages

Ratio 1:9.5

 

[Cronos_Rainbow]

Scrubs - With what argument you put up you're only encouraging Dedede to be totally banned, not stages. If thats what you want come out and say it.

The pedophile example is fine - you're just looking for loopholes in the analogy rather than the point behind it. The point being that things are regulated for a reason - not just to disappoint people but for the greater good.

You're saying a stage is a stage when you have just been arguing for pages of this thread about why Dedede on Eldin for instance is imbalanced. You also Mentioned the ability for some characters to do better on Corneria with low ceiling. Terrain advantage is a fundamental part of strategy - denying this is going against age old tried and true evidence.

Spear Pillars reverse controls benefits characters with multi-jumps and attacks that hit to both sides simultaneously. Think about it and you'll know it to be fact.

6x32 characters? I didn't say that. The equation is to show the number of different scenarios you would lock out banning stages before Dedede. The number is each character on each stage if 6 stages, and 37 characters then 6x37. This isn't to mention the variables added in with each opponent considered also - which makes for a very large number.

Now on stage bans. Melee was quite obviously an imbalanced tournament scheme we used. Any stage where the top tiers were slightly less awesome such as Flat Zone were instantly scrapped. A DK trying to earn a quick kill would then be forced to use something like Mushroom Kingdom 2 to beat a Sheik. Sheik player cancels out MK2 selection and proceeds to **** on say Corneria- DK goes home feeling robbed because he never put up the fight he could have. Stage bans are not to maintain a 'neutral' playing field. If that was what we wanted it would be best of one on neutral stages to begin with. Counter staging is to slim down the gap between your opponent and yourself to give you a second chance to prove superior - as obviously if you do manage the win in round two - you will be severely disadvantaged in round three as the original winner now chooses his counter. This is the premise behind the best of three counter picking system.
Said simply the ban is to get rid of the worst of all evils - so the amount of lesser evils is not to be factored in - therefore the ratio is unimportant providing the banned stages remain banned.

Lastly Scrubs - Please realise what we are doing is spending a lot of our time working hard to assess and deliver a tournament system to everyone that will please as many people as possible. You're welcome to join in - but if you're just going to sit there poking at what we say to find faults (generally a few steps behind our current point of thinking mind you) in a way so obnoxious as comments like
"Nope" or "I don't even know why I'm rebutting this it's a stupid argument" rather than actually typing useful words of contribution, perhaps you should just stop posting and save yourself some time, as well as us from having to type out these essays justifying what most other people seem to grasp or ask for clarification on first. Please don't take this as an attack on you - just as a request I'd appreciate you granting.

 

[Sloth]

SPOILER! MELEE REFERENCES INCOMING!! DODGE!!!!

Scrubs - With what argument you put up you're only encouraging Dedede to be totally banned, not stages. If thats what you want come out and say it..

I don't see how, at all? By your analogy - and view of melee, why don't we ban Peach on Dreamland and Marth on both Yoshi story and Battlefield at RAMBO. Its never to late

The pedophile example is fine

I can see what you were trying to do the analogy, but using a real-life example isn't best used in an argument about video game rules. As one could discuss the analogy itself about morality principles, rather then thinking about the argument.

You're saying a stage is a stage when you have just been arguing for pages of this thread about why Dedede on Eldin for instance is imbalanced.

Dedede was one of the glaring problems with Eldin. It was like a shining beacon to show the problem with walk-off stages. The fact they promote camping above all due to zero % kills off the side.
I can't say I look forward to Pit vrs Pit on Eldin just firing arrows at each other, scared of a b-throw for a 0% death. - note I know its an extreme example, it helps emphasis the problems.

EDLIN TALK OUT. I am willing to see how it goes at RAMBO seeing as I cannot change your mind. But I will ban it for any QLD hosted tournament, until some rule sets are put into cement stone, engraved and chucked in the bible for good measure.

You also Mentioned the ability for some characters to do better on Corneria with low ceiling. Terrain advantage is a fundamental part of strategy - denying this is going against age old tried and true evidence.

Scrubs raises a good point. The idea to ban a -character on a stage- due to one minuscule problem means the character misses out on the other aspects on which it can be used as a counter-stage. This is pointed towards the next-to-wall grabbing.

Equations are silly. :O :O As they directly assume a UNIQUE play between character on character with a certain stage. no.. every stage!

Now to address the problem at hand:
Removing a character's ability to play on a stage isn't the way to go .

I think we need to look at a new way changing characters after they want to change stages. Lets say you won IC vrs Dedede, they want Eldin, so I change to Pit. This negates the idea behind counters I KNOW I KNOW. But we should think of rules like this.

Or remove certain stages that have problems to begin with.. hint hint

Basically, I don't have my own solution yet, however I will continue to think about possible scenarios, but the path that the 'dedede rule' follows is one we shouldn't pursuit.

 

[Mic_128]

You say banning chain throwing would be hard to police, and I discussed this with Bringer earlier, but I have to ask, how was Wobbling dealt with? Since I haven't been to a tournie since wobbling was found, I don't know how it was dealt with.

 

[Sloth]

Wobbling was banned.
However wobbling isn't chain-throwing. Actually, you wouldn't really need to police dedede's CG (unless walk off stage) as eventually you can grab hold of a ledge. And thats only after a few actual CG's.. the stages are small, and it doesn't take long. So its only an issue with walk-off stages really.

 

[CAOTIC]

i never really banned it cus it was funny to watch

plus people were too **** to wobble their way to victory