Aura Breaks the Following Match-Ups: (Currently: Donkey Kong)

[Quickhero]

It's been a day, guys. Let's just avoid talking about characters that got changed until AT LEAST 2 weeks from now lol.

 

[Loota]

Any character that loses his guaranteed low% grab kill combos (and other kill moves nerfed too) will probably not 60:40 us. I doubt the matchup changed at it's core but it's just a bit easier all-around for us and we can expect to live a little longer in general. I don't want to throw any numbers out since I haven't actually played the patched version yet but 40:60 sounds out of question if you ask me.

 

[Eeveecario]

Any character that loses his guaranteed low% grab kill combos (and other kill moves nerfed too) will probably not 60:40 us. I doubt the matchup changed at it's core but it's just a bit easier all-around for us and we can expect to live a little longer in general. I don't want to throw any numbers out since I haven't actually played the patched version yet but 40:60 sounds out of question if you ask me.

I haven't found any Diddys since the patch so I can't tell you about the match-up post this patch. But after reading some nerfs he had, he is still a hard MU for us, and maybe he still has the advantage.
Now it's possible for us to face a Diddy and maybe have a chance to win, but as I said before, I haven't found any good Diddys since this patch.

 

[RT]

I've played with a Diddy (a real Diddy main who used him since day 1 and knows actually how to play him beyond hoohah) It's still not a good matchup imo. They took away one his strongest kill setups, but Diddy can still pressure Lucario and force bad choices. Still, the fact that Lucario won't die at sub 100-110% anymore does mean Aura can be abused more. It's probably closer to 45:55 or maybe 50:50 if extremely optimistic.

 

[BugCatcherWill]

Yeah, I just fought a Diddy player this Saturday and lost just barely (last stock both at 100%+). It's annoying, but waaaaay easier than before. Upair still kills at around 120% at the mid area of Battlefield when fresh. But other than that the Diddy player mainly relied on smashes and fairs. If the Monkey Flip is avoided, or a fair is blocked/whiffed with the massive landing lag, it's possible to try for the Force Palm. Although, if you miss that, you're wide open to punishment

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

To all Lucario players, Rosalina is now analyzing Lucario at her match-up analysis thread. If you have anything to contribute for the Rosalina vs. Lucario match-up, Lucario will be analyzed until the end of 4/23.

Keep note that while in Rosalina's sub-forum, the match-up will be under Rosalina's perspective.

Edit: Whoops, I goofed up while typing this post. I meant to say "now", but I accidentally said "not".

 

[Berserker.]

http://smashboards.com/threads/lucario-match-up-discussion-i-can-feel-the-aura.400086/

Shulk mains would like to discuss Lucario. READ THE OP BEFORE POSTING

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

Preventing discussion of scores is silly.

I wanted to throw this in here since this will help against Villager on a future date...

Aura Spheres (except maybe two stock down max Aura?) can be lobbed under the tree when the Villager uses his second chop. The Villager is still stuck in the attack animation, so once you get the timing down he's not that hard to hit.

Edit: Random Robin tip. You can Air dodge the explosive hit of Robin's Jab 3, but if you fail to air dodge lag cancel (use an air move to get that lag instead, you only have about a 4 frame window) you'll get hit again or grabbed.

Rysir and Kami say we can duck under Robin's Thunder/Elthunder/Arcthunder/Thoron o.O

 

[Eeveecario]

It's been a long while guys, and the development of the Match ups has been stopped for a long while now...

Isn't it time to continue developing the MU already?
Continuing the MU:

• His aerials attacks are fearsome, yet they now have a lot of landing lag and nerfing his neutral game considerably, enough to punish with an AS. Sorry, they were reduced in knock back, not in landing lag.
• Watch out for his aerial combos, if you're stuck in one: just cooperate, endure them and try to escape. If you find a gap or a mistake, punish.
• Diddy's DThrow has been nerfed, and they're switching to Up-Throw.
• Up-Air has been nerfed a lot too. They're now switching to horizontal kills (But be aware of the Up-Air, tho).
• If Diddy is trying to recover, don't hesitate to use some baby AS (BAS). Also, try to read when Diddy is going to try a Side-B.
• F-smash has more ening lag, but it's still hard to punish it.
• In spite of diddy being nerfed, you still need to respect when he has a banana in hand. Don't be afraid to throw AS or catch them if possible.

Finally, If I have to give a number, I should give 55:45. Just be patient and go all out if you find the gap.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Don't mind me but I am going to sticky this for now.

 

[Trunks159]

• His aerials attacks are fearsome, yet they now have a lot of landing lag

?

 

[Eeveecario]

?

Sorry, got confused a little, I edited my post.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Preventing discussion of scores is silly.

I wanted to throw this in here since this will help against Villager on a future date...

Aura Spheres (except maybe two stock down max Aura?) can be lobbed under the tree when the Villager uses his second chop. The Villager is still stuck in the attack animation, so once you get the timing down he's not that hard to hit.

Edit: Random Robin tip. You can Air dodge the explosive hit of Robin's Jab 3, but if you fail to air dodge lag cancel (use an air move to get that lag instead, you only have about a 4 frame window) you'll get hit again or grabbed.

Rysir and Kami say we can duck under Robin's Thunder/Elthunder/Arcthunder/Thoron o.O

Older post but, can we duck under it? I'll test this tonight.

 

[RT]

Duck under what?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Any of robin's thunder versions.

 

[Croi]

Any of robin's thunder versions.

Yes. Kind of a weird tangent, though.

I'll see if I can't update this later tonight.

 

[Croi]

I think two months is enough of a berth. Let's wrap up the Diddy discussion:

• Pre-patch, everyone was convinced the MU was 60-40 Diddy's favour. But he's been significantly nerfed since then, seeing lots of cooldown on some attacks and less kill power on others. But the MU hasn't changed at its core, so it's safe to say it's roughly 55-45 Diddy's favour.
• Diddy is scariest with a banana in hand. If he hits you on the ground with it, you're going to get smashed or grabbed. His mobility hasn't changed and he's one of the most erratic characters to fight, grounded or aerial. Every attack of his comes out in the single-digit frames, and a ton of his attacks have far reach and/or unfair disjoint, so he's very difficult to box. He has a command grab with Monkey Flip, so shielding on a platform isn't necessarily safe. Unfortunately, a moderately competent Diddy dictates the pace of this MU, no matter how well you space yourself.
• Diddy was scariest pre-patch because all that speed and mobility had kill power to back it up, but not so much anymore. Like any character with his general play style, he needs to rack up a ton of damage before he can kill us, and that's just fine with us. Aura Spheres and Force Palms will devour bananas (at 70%~ Aura) if they clash or are left on the ground, and if you don't sit still, Diddy will have a hard time catching you with all the range your Aura gives your specials. All of his smash attacks, while scary and devastating, have long cooldown, and if you can stay centre-stage, he has no kill throws.
• Lucario can't keep pace with Diddy, plain and simple, but without Diddy's earlier kill power, we don't need to to stay competitive. He's lightweight, so if you can keep him half as damaged as yourself, you'll be winning. You may need some luck to land the killing blow, though.
• See F2P w/ Gibus vs Denti for more.

Following the pattern, our next MU is

Donkey Kong got a few buffs since Brawl. Shield isn't very safe against him because not only is he not afraid to dash-grab anymore, but his sideB, the headbutt, will do something like 90% shield damage, and a broken shield against Donkey Kong is terrifying.

Heavies in general are a pain in the ass for Lucario because Lucario thrives on taking damage and surviving, but that's not a guarantee when his opponents can kill at 40%. Donkey Kong has a ton of range in his tilts and three of his four specials, so it's tough to get in on him to begin with. On paper, Lucario can't really match Donkey Kong in any category: he outranges us, he outspeeds us (although our frame data is roughly equal), he overpowers us. His recovery is difficult to gimp because none of Lucario's attacks can spike. If he had a projectile he might be one of our harder MUs, and don't even get me started on his customs.

Lucario can still win this MU for two reasons: like Bowser, Donkey Kong is so big and heavy that we can combo him for hours at a time with almost any amount of Aura. It's a little disheartening when six of our hits will do as much as two of his, but if we can get the stock first, this can hurt Donkey Kong hugely if he can't kill you back immediately. If you're not fighting on a small stage with platforms (avoid Lylat, Halberd, Delfino if you can), then, like most other MUs, you can keep him out with your godlike projectiles. Donkey Kong is also hugely susceptible to ASC-JCUS because of his massive body and his fastest aerial doesn't come out in time.

My opinions may be skewed because all my Donkey Kong practice is with Will Walsh, and you won't find a Donkey Kong as good as him (I rarely win). As always, Lucario struggles at low Aura but, if you can gain some momentum at high Aura, you'll be in charge of the match. I'd argue 50-50.

 

[Steam]

honestly I missed this but diddy IMO definitely wins 6-4 by virtue of completely destroying us at neutral. pre-nerf it was a solid 65-35 but it's not so bad now.

Donkey Kong is probably like 55-45 in our favor just due to the fact that he'll never land and doesn't have good kill setups. might be different with customs though.

 

[RT]

DK is one of those rare matchups I have a lot of practice against. I treat him as pretty much Brawl DK but new tricks and shenanigans.

He can break shields very easily, so watch out for DownB and SideB. He hits hard and can take hits very well, but projectiles can hamper him if done correctly. Needless to say, don't let him keep rage. His recovery options are not very varied compared to most characters, and you can gimp him, but it's not easy.

He has shenanigans on low stage ceilings of certain stages (Delfino...). Platforms are his friend, especially when he is below one.

Watch out for spike shenanigans, especially fair.

He has some blindspots on his moves and smashes, so it'd be good to learn them. Once you get a general feel of his range, he's not that bad at all to deal with.

50:50 or 55:45.

 

[Eeveecario]

You mean Green Ranger Will? That guy is a beast!

I agree, is a hard foe. He combines weight, attack speed and power pretty well (Why did most of the heavies get buffed with speed?).

His Up-Tilt comes out really fast, but has a semi-long cool-down. Trying to challenge him from above is complete suicide, on air or ground. His down-tilt is far ranged, can make you trip easily, and can jab lock. Gotta be careful with it. Finally, his Bair is too good, although it lacks in range in comparison with other moves, it has a lot of knockback, comes out fast and stays active for a long while.

As for our approach options, I agree with Croi statement that we shouldn't sit on our shield. We need to move as fast as possible. DK doesn't do well against fast characters, and moving around a lot is our best option (something we should consider an habit, BTW). And, although a risky way to approach, we can run to him, shield and react as soon as he moves. Soon or later we'll bait something and punish it.

As a final note: We can't challenge him on the ground, but we might have a chance on air. To have the upper hand in our favor, we need to out-run our foe this time. If you don't like to camp out, you can try being nimble.

 

[Hyjacked]

I feel like respect is the word of the day for this matchup. Playing with the general assumption that anything that hits you is going to kill you if you're above 50% is a good move, I feel. DK is pretty big so he's easily comboed, but as people have said, he's also pretty bloody dangerous. I'm on board with the 50:50.

 

[DomBadZZZ]

I main both lucario and DK so i know plenty about him. First off watch out for DK's bair, and up air, they will beat out most of lucario's aerials, also his up-tilt is godlike. DK can combo surprisingly well out of cargo-upthrow so make sure you mash out when possible its suprisingly easy. You will need to grab DK alot as he will be in shield often as most big characters are. AS destroys DK when landing.... actually always attack DKs landings as his options are awful besides bair. ASC is a must in this match-up since he will once again often be in shield and with that huge hurtbox its hard to miss. ASC DESTROYS DK. Like stated above dont sit in shield or his side-b will break it probably the best most unexpected sheild breakers in the game. DKs biggest advantage is that no one knows the match-up so if you dont respect his speed and power youre going to die early and be put in a terrible position without aura. I still think lucario wins 55-45 if you know the match-up, with customs its probably in DKs favor pretty heavily with the combo breaker godly up-B.

 

[Steam]

New matchup discussion hub can be found here: http://smashboards.com/threads/the-official-lucario-matchup-discussion-directory.404826/