Assembly of Unfamiliar Information: Give Jeepy Something to Test!

[Jeepy Sol]

Good eye, NESSBOUNDER, you were right. I went double checked his Jab A, and the hitbox REALLY comes out on frame 5. My computer's stopwatch had a major flaw, so I got a new one. Thanks.

If you hit a projectile with the explosion of FP, it will stop them. Does anyone know if it stops all projectiles? I know it stops fireballs and aura spheres, but I've had a hard time getting arrows to work.

 

[Milln]

Hmm... and I thought dsmash was faster than fsmash...

 

[Nodrak]

What Force Palm will and wont hit. (at 0%)
I didn't do any of kirby's hats though, sorry =S

Will stop:
Mario's fireballs
Luigi's fireballs
Luigi's sideB "Green Rocket"
Luigi's sideB "Green Rocket" Missfire!!!
Peach's turnips
Yoshi's eggs
Link's Bomb (will blow it up, so try to hit it with the tip of the blue flames)
Toon Link's fully charged arrow
Toon Link's Boomerang
Samus' uncharged energy ball
Samus' homing rocket
Samus' green rocket (but be careful, the rocket is slightly higher then the blue flames on level ground, it's extremely hard to sweet-spot)
Pit's Arrows
Ice Climbers Ice (it will reflect them, not destroy them and will still belong to the ice climbers)
Ice Climbers frost (although it's continuous, so it's not that useful to parry this with FP)
Dedede's Waddle-De's
Dedede's Waddle-Do's
Olimar's Pikman (The purple will stop and fall, the rest of the colours will die)
Pikachu's jolt
Ivysaur's leaf attack
Jigglypuffs Rollout at low charge
Lucario's fully charged aura sphere until they're 100% above you
Lucario's baby aura sphere at any % and stock advantage
Ness' pk thunder
Ness' pk fire (it'll start burning though)
Lucas' pk thunder
Lucas' pk fire (it'll explode though)
Game and Watch's frying pan food (will freeze them, not destroy them right away)
Snake's missile (will not destroy it, it'll be directed up and snake will still be in control of it)

Wont stop:
Mario's fludd
Bowser's fire
Diddy's peanuts
Yoshi's downB stars (though if you can get the timing that you'd need to normally hit the stars, you can take a step closer and hit/grab yoshi before he hits the ground instead)
Wario's bike
Wario's bike tires (broken bike)
Link's arrows (it may slow them but even a non-charged arrow will have enough momentum to hit you)
Link's boomarang (even if the FP flames and the bow are even [the bow is normally slightly higher then the FP flames])
Zelda's SideB
Shiek's needles
Shiek's tether
Toon Link's bomb (it will slow down a bit but will still have enough momentum to keep going and explode)
Samus' fully charged ball
Samus' bomb
ROB's laser (low or high charge)
ROB's gyro
Kirby's upB cutter
Dedede's Gordo Throw (the spiky thing his sideB throws sometimes)
Dedede's upB stars
Fox's Laser
Falco's laser
Falco's reflector (I got hopeful)
Wolf's Laser
Pikachu's Thunder (not that it matters, it comes from above)
Squirtils watergun
Charizard's fire
Game and Watch's bucket
Charizard's rock smash
Jigglypuff's Rollout fully charged
Sonic's spring

 

[Jeepy Sol]

Hmm... and I thought dsmash was faster than fsmash...

No, it just looks that way because f-smash's start-up time is a lot more.

What Force Palm will and wont hit. (at 0%)
I didn't do any of kirby's hats though, sorry =S

Will stop:
Mario's fireballs
Luigi's fireballs
Luigi's sideB "Green Rocket"
Luigi's sideB "Green Rocket" Missfire!!!
Peach's turnips
Yoshi's eggs
Link's Bomb (will blow it up, so try to hit it with the tip of the blue flames)
Toon Link's fully charged arrow
Toon Link's Boomerang
Samus' uncharged energy ball
Samus' homing rocket
Samus' green rocket (but be careful, the rocket is slightly higher then the blue flames on level ground, it's extremely hard to sweet-spot)
Pit's Arrows
Ice Climbers Ice (it will reflect them, not destroy them and will still belong to the ice climbers)
Ice Climbers frost (although it's continuous, so it's not that useful to parry this with FP)
Dedede's Waddle-De's
Dedede's Waddle-Do's
Olimar's Pikman (The purple will stop and fall, the rest of the colours will die)
Pikachu's jolt
Ivysaur's leaf attack
Jigglypuffs Rollout at low charge
Lucario's fully charged aura sphere until they're 100% above you
Lucario's baby aura sphere at any % and stock advantage
Ness' pk thunder
Ness' pk fire (it'll start burning though)
Lucas' pk thunder
Lucas' pk fire (it'll explode though)
Game and Watch's frying pan food (will freeze them, not destroy them right away)
Snake's missile (will not destroy it, it'll be directed up and snake will still be in control of it)

Wont stop:
Mario's fludd
Bowser's fire
Diddy's peanuts
Yoshi's downB stars (though if you can get the timing that you'd need to normally hit the stars, you can take a step closer and hit/grab yoshi before he hits the ground instead)
Wario's bike
Wario's bike tires (broken bike)
Link's arrows (it may slow them but even a non-charged arrow will have enough momentum to hit you)
Link's boomarang (even if the FP flames and the bow are even [the bow is normally slightly higher then the FP flames])
Zelda's SideB
Shiek's needles
Shiek's tether
Toon Link's bomb (it will slow down a bit but will still have enough momentum to keep going and explode)
Samus' fully charged ball
Samus' bomb
ROB's laser (low or high charge)
ROB's gyro
Kirby's upB cutter
Dedede's Gordo Throw (the spiky thing his sideB throws sometimes)
Dedede's upB stars
Fox's Laser
Falco's laser
Falco's reflector (I got hopeful)
Wolf's Laser
Pikachu's Thunder (not that it matters, it comes from above)
Squirtils watergun
Charizard's fire
Game and Watch's bucket
Charizard's rock smash
Jigglypuff's Rollout fully charged
Sonic's spring

You, sir, are AMAZING! Mind if I add this (With due credit, of course)?

 

[Nodrak]

Go ahead, the whole point is to help people out =P

I also did Kirby's hats


Kirby Hats

Will Stop:
MarioKirby's fireball
LuigiKirby's fireball
BowserKirby's fire (all the fire it touches at least, kirby can still hold down B to keep producing fire)
ToonLinkKirby's arrow
SamusKirby's small energy ball
IceClimberKirby's ice (but like regular ice climbers, it'll belong to kirby)
LucarioKirby's baby aura sphere
LucarioKirby's fully charged aura sphere
PikaKirby's jolt
GameandWatchKirby's food (stops them from moving but they take a second to dissapear)


Wont stop:
DiddyKirby's peanut
ShiekKirby's needle
SamusKirby's large energy ball
PitKirby's arrow
ROBKirby's laser
OlimarKirby's pikmin (it wont even slow them down, any colour)
FoxKirby's laser
FalcoKirby's laser
WolfKirby's laser
JigglyKirby's rollout (charged or uncharged)
SquirtleKirby's watergun (only blocks one part of the entire spray)
CharizardKirby's Fire (same as squirtle)
SnakeKirby's gernade

Also i missed, it wont stop regular snake's gernade

 

[NESSBOUNDER]

Good eye, NESSBOUNDER, you were right. I went double checked his Jab A, and the hitbox REALLY comes out on frame 5. My computer's stopwatch had a major flaw, so I got a new one. Thanks.

If you hit a projectile with the explosion of FP, it will stop them. Does anyone know if it stops all projectiles? I know it stops fireballs and aura spheres, but I've had a hard time getting arrows to work.

Now that sounds more like it.

It's still slower than your average fighting game jab by 2 frames, but still a good 10 frames shorter than originally thought. whew!

 

[Elec Man EXE]

For the 17 damage Fsmash... is it possible the Ice Climbers bashed into each other as you sent them flying? I think that deals a certain amount of damage. I seem to remember it doing 3% damage just from noticing it during matches (never actually tested it), so maybe if both of them ran into each other it'd do 6% extra total?

I dunno, I'm just tossing ideas around. I don't know if the Climbers are even able to hit each other, or if Fsmash at 0% has enough power to throw them far enough to do it. Only thing that came to mind, though.

Nice info thread, BTW. Looking forward to more frame data. And I didn't even know about Force Palms cancel ability, need to play with that some. Going to take some practice to time it right, though. Not exactly a fast excecution time.

 

[Nodrak]

And I didn't even know about Force Palms cancel ability, need to play with that some. Going to take some practice to time it right, though. Not exactly a fast excecution time.

I've noticed that (depending on distance of course) you need to start the Force Palm just before or just as your opponent decides to shoot. May not be the most practical but it works well against predictable opponents

 

[CaliburChamp]

F-smash is a quicker attack than downsmash?

 

[CSTIK]

No, it just looks that way because f-smash's start-up time is a lot more.

What do you mean? Then d-smash would be faster....?

 

[Elec Man EXE]

Dsmash's attack comes out faster. Yes.

But going by the total frames it takes to complete the entire animation, Fsmash finishes slightly faster. Dsmash has a lot of winddown lag. As far as the opponent shielding / dodging, and which one will leave you less vulnerable, Fsmash is better. But of course Dsmash is a bit harder TO shield, since it comes out faster.

 

[Jeepy Sol]

Bump for new data!


And listen to Elec Man EXE. He knows what he is talking about.

 

[Korpocalypse]

OMG
has anyone tried doing a fair right after ledge-canceling his B-UP?
could have some practical uses

cuz i noticed he doesn't land immediately after the ledgecancel, he's in the air. And if you don't DI anywhere, he ends up grabbing the ledge, which could also have some practical uses

 

[Jeepy Sol]

Added Roll, Spot Dodge, and Aura Sphere, and some more frame data for D-tilt, F-tilt, and Force Palm.

And Infi, could the reason F-smash did 17% instead of 11% be because you were down a couple of stocks?

Korpocalypse, I can't seem to get that to work.

 

[Milln]

And Infi, could the reason F-smash did 17% instead of 11% be because you were down a couple of stocks?

I did it in training mode. T-T I'm just going to disregard it as a fluke/I wasn't payign attention and had hit them before.

 

[Elec Man EXE]

Hmm, Dtilt is nice. But with the removal of CC'ing in Brawl I've been rather bad about using any Dtilts in general, with any character. Need to force myself to use them despite that, some of my "mains" have really good ones.

Lucario especially, since you can even crawl to move yourself around to position better.

 

[Nodrak]

In most cases, Lucario's dtilt will send them slightly lower then the dthrow, lining the enemy up for a good aerial attack.

 

[Jeepy Sol]

Added U-Air and part of F-Air.

F-Air has a strange hitbox. It actually first comes out right below Lucario, not in front of him. Looks like D-Air is not our only option. . .

 

[PSYCHE]

D-air is still better in most situations. Usually when you hit someone with a f-air, it is the only time you can hit them.

U-air is actually a lot quicker than I thought it would be!

 

[Greenpoe]

Up air seems like it can be better than fair! Yay faster attacks. =)

 

[Trapt497]

Wow guys thanks so much for all of this information. I'm definetly going to start posting in this thread.

While we are on the topic of airials, does f-air have a better hit box then u-air? And how does b-air compare? Is it better or worse than, say, f-air?

 

[Jeepy Sol]

Well, I wouldn't say it's better, but I absolutely love f-air's hitbox. I just figured out a couple of days ago that it has an invisible hitbox in the beginning of the attack that comes out right below Lucario.

U-air has some interesting characteristics as well. If you jump, and do a u-air at the height of your jump and then fastfall, the hitbox will stay where it first came out.

 

[PSYCHE]

I would say right off the bat that Lucs best airial is d-air. Works in so many situations, out of sheild, as an approach. It has two hitboxes and ko's . There are no bad things about it.

 

[Browny]

lucarios d-air is the best aerial in the game as far as im concerned... and i main ness + zelda so i know a bit about powerful aerials

 

[Nodrak]

Dispite how good Luc's dair is, I'll always enjoy spikes more, no matter how painful it can be to pull them off (marth)

 

[GDX]

Well, I wouldn't say it's better, but I absolutely love f-air's hitbox. I just figured out a couple of days ago that it has an invisible hitbox in the beginning of the attack that comes out right below Lucario.

U-air has some interesting characteristics as well. If you jump, and do a u-air at the height of your jump and then fastfall, the hitbox will stay where it first came out.

thats weird...and good to know

 

[Jeepy Sol]

*Updated with f-air, n-air, b-air, and d-air.*

Obviously, f-air and d-air are the most used aerials. But people need to start using n-air more. Not just because it can effectively be used as a follow-up to most aerials, not just becuase there is no landing lag (if you land after Lucario does his little spin), not just because it has two hitboxes, but also becuase it has great knockback. I've KO'd with n-air.

A lot.

 

[Trapt497]

Thanks for updating the airials.

Dispite how good Luc's dair is, I'll always enjoy spikes more, no matter how painful it can be to pull them off (marth)

*sigh* This is true...I always thought Lucario would have some incredible spike but no...Lucario has no spike *sigh.* The spikes of Ness, Ganon, and Falco own...so does Lucario's!!!

Oh wait, he doesnt have a spike *sigh.* But anyways, on the topic of this, what other techniques do you other Lucario users do while attacking off the stage if you cant spike?

 

[Greenpoe]

Off the stage? I generally try and wall-of-pain as best as Lucario can, such as fair-nair or fair-dair with any follow up I can get (fast fall towards or fire an aura sphere, etc. depending on where they were hit to).

 

[Trapt497]

cool. I basically do the same thing, aura sphere or f-air occasionally, but most of the time i usually just anticipate where they are going to try to recover and start d-airing repeatedly and hovering on that spot.

 

[PSYCHE]

*Updated with f-air, n-air, b-air, and d-air.*

Obviously, f-air and d-air are the most used aerials. But people need to start using n-air more. Not just because it can effectively be used as a follow-up to most aerials, not just becuase there is no landing lag (if you land after Lucario does his little spin), not just because it has two hitboxes, but also becuase it has great knockback. I've KO'd with n-air.

A lot.

THATS why I was always landing with lag!

Anyways, even though n-airs are good and all, I find d-airs to be better in almost every situation.

Oh wait, he doesnt have a spike *sigh.* But anyways, on the topic of this, what other techniques do you other Lucario users do while attacking off the stage if you cant spike?

Actually, he does have a spike, although it involves the stage. If you d-air someone when they are right below the ledge, they will bounce off it and be spiked. Ive also done it with b-air

 

[Nodrak]

Actually, he does have a spike, although it involves the stage. If you d-air someone when they are right below the ledge, they will bounce off it and be spiked. Ive also done it with b-air

Lucario has no spike, that's just using the level to spike your opponent. Every character can do that but not every character can spike.

 

[Jeepy Sol]

Nodrak speaks the truth, PSYCHE.

And how can you say that d-air is better in most situations? Observe one of your Lucario matches, or next time we're playing, pay attention to our positions. You're usually above me, right? That's becuase most of Lucario's moves knock opponents upwards. N-air works beautifully while d-air will most likely get you hit.

For example, a great way to end u-tilt spam is to jump and n-air.

 

[O.d.L]

f-smash also does what side b does, stop proyectils and all that

 

[Jeepy Sol]

Ok, guys, I have a new topic of discussion:

You know the jab->jab-> force palm combo? Of course you do. Well, last night, I was playing against a level 9 Pit, and just out of randomness, I decided to try jab->jab-> double team, and it worked quite well. Pit f-aired me, double team activated, and Pit was punished.

I think that this will work quite well, since usually, while you are jabbing your opponent, they are desperately trying to escape it and retaliate.

This is probably more of a mindgame, now that I think about it. Let's say you pull this off, and double team them. Well, next time you jab them, they PROBABLY won't try to retaliate, thinking you are going to double team. Now you can force palm them much easier.

I'm sure this has been tried before, but I have't seen it discussed. The reason I am bringing it up here is because I haven't tried it against a human opponent yet. SO, try it, come back, and tell me how whether or not it works.

 

[Browny]

lol this would work very well against MK users...

especially since they are pretty much immune to the force palm beyond a certain % since they fly so far from the jabs at high %

 

[PSYCHE]

Ok, guys, I have a new topic of discussion:

You know the jab->jab-> force palm combo? Of course you do. Well, last night, I was playing against a level 9 Pit, and just out of randomness, I decided to try jab->jab-> double team, and it worked quite well. Pit f-aired me, double team activated, and Pit was punished.

I think that this will work quite well, since usually, while you are jabbing your opponent, they are desperately trying to escape it and retaliate.

This is probably more of a mindgame, now that I think about it. Let's say you pull this off, and double team them. Well, next time you jab them, they PROBABLY won't try to retaliate, thinking you are going to double team. Now you can force palm them much easier.

I'm sure this has been tried before, but I have't seen it discussed. The reason I am bringing it up here is because I haven't tried it against a human opponent yet. SO, try it, come back, and tell me how whether or not it works.

I just tried this on one of my buddies. It got him. It worked just like you said. After I got him, I went into the jab to fp combo and he didnt try to hit me out of it.

 

[Trapt497]

Ok, guys, I have a new topic of discussion:

You know the jab->jab-> force palm combo? Of course you do. Well, last night, I was playing against a level 9 Pit, and just out of randomness, I decided to try jab->jab-> double team, and it worked quite well. Pit f-aired me, double team activated, and Pit was punished.

I think that this will work quite well, since usually, while you are jabbing your opponent, they are desperately trying to escape it and retaliate.

This is probably more of a mindgame, now that I think about it. Let's say you pull this off, and double team them. Well, next time you jab them, they PROBABLY won't try to retaliate, thinking you are going to double team. Now you can force palm them much easier.

I'm sure this has been tried before, but I have't seen it discussed. The reason I am bringing it up here is because I haven't tried it against a human opponent yet. SO, try it, come back, and tell me how whether or not it works.

Hmm never thought about this. Of course it depends on if they are trying to attack or trying to jump away while getting jabbed. But this is awesome new info I havent thought about. And the mindgame you were talking about definetly not only messes with their minds but makes the jab jab fp combo easier to pull off if they are worried about a jab jab double team.

Nice job Jeepy. Oh, and beastly new sig :D.

 

[Jeepy Sol]

If someone would try this out against a human player, I would really appreciate it. I still haven't had the chance to battle any of my friends, so all I have to go on is cpus, which do not have minds to use mindgames on.

And I'm glad you like my sig, Trapt!

 

[Milln]

In all my matches when i've AA>FP'd, they've always tried to Smash DI away.