Q&A Ask about Pikachu! Hosted by Axe and N64! feat. dkuo!

[N64]

The nair-grab was legit. It looks like Wes was DIing in, but it honestly doesn't really matter at that percent (Axe's grab positioning would have caught everything except maybe smash DI left/right). Wes miiiiight have been able to shine just before the nair connected (it looks to me like there wasn't enough time, but it's close), but anything else (jump, an aerial, etc.) would have been beaten by nair. Axe's grab landed before Wes touched the platform. It mainly worked because Falco was at such low percent, the nair barely sent him anywhere, and Axe connected it on the way down and slightly below Wes, ensuring that Pikachu would land on the platform with enough time to dash->jcgrab.

Edit: I'll think about reviving the Pikonferences, but honestly I don't play this game as much any more, so not as motivated as I used to be. Will mull it over.

 

[soju]

How about a Facebook group to begin with because that's easier to post more consistently and topics are easier to discuss via comments. Also melee players tend to use fb more now. *Then we can use Skype or another IM source if we have a big topic

https://www.facebook.com/groups/380670908779850/
I went ahead and made it anyways

 

[dkuo]

yeah i barely play pika nowadays but im up for some pikadiscussion

 

[The Jets]

I'm Spenser I just requested to join

 

[Icyo]

How about a Facebook group to begin with because that's easier to post more consistently and topics are easier to discuss via comments. Also melee players tend to use fb more now. *Then we can use Skype or another IM source if we have a big topic

https://www.facebook.com/groups/380670908779850/
I went ahead and made it anyways

Facebook groups doesn't serve as a good archive for information. You have to sift through comments to find something you find in the past since, as far as I'm aware, there's no good search function.

 

[soju]

It's still a lot better for quick discussions since it has ease of access and a better notification system. If there is anything we go super in depth I'll be sure to post it here. I'm about to make a new thread listing a lot of the good info here that I missed during my inactivity like my previous thread.

I was just trying trying to breathe new life into the pika discussion brotha

 

[Phez_]

I was just trying trying to breathe new life into the pika discussion brotha

Preach my brotha

anyway I think Skype is better for any in-depth discussion about match ups or whatever but Facebook is good for smaller topics

 

[TheTron99]

I'm thinking about useing Pikachu as a main and I'm switching from link is this a good idea

 

[TheTron99]

And how do I approach ganondorf with the Chu

 

[Aquachu]

What can i do against fsmash spamming Marths? It seems like everytime i try to read the fsmash and run in afterwards, the opponent is able to roll away. If i try to read a roll, i get hit by either a ftilt or dtilt instead. It just seems like there is a big wall in front of him that hits me everytime and i feel helpless

Also, i struggle to escape the fsmash when i try to get onstage from the ledge. It just seems like it gets me wherever i go. Even if i try to flip him over the edge with uair, the fsmash hits because of the ridiculous hitbox it has. Any tips on that?

 

[soju]

@ TheTron99 You either wait for him to approach and punish or you go in before he can do anything, he's pretty laggy in his moves

@ A Aquachu you can wdash OoS to punish or wdash backwards when he f smash. Rolling Is also always underestimated

 

[CannaSwiss]

Need tips vs. ICs. Anything you can give me helps, I cannot win this match up

 

[Phez_]

If you havent done so already, watch all the Axe vs Fly Amanita / Wobbles vids that are out there. In general, avoid the ground because ICs have good ground options and an amazing wavedash. try to make the most of your aerial speed and ability to gimp nana. id also suggest learning a bit of ICs because it will really help you understand the character (I mained ICs for about 6 months)


My tips;
Dsmash can seperate them pretty well (dont spam it though)
stay aerial so its difficult for them to grab
watch out for crouch cancel dsmash/grab
always cross-up aerial approaches
Uair them if they are in the air
tail-spike nana when she is seperated and recovering
dont fall for desynchs
edgeguard sopo with Usmash (after side-b) or uair (during side-b)
watch out for their bair oos and wavedash dsmash oos
sometimes you can dtilt them and only popo will shield in time (because there is 6 frames difference between popo and nanas actions) and nana will get hit, thus seperating them. this is just a tiny gimmick ive found and its very situational but try it out

DON'T GET GRABBED!!!!!!!

also, if they are doing dthrow dairs, SDI the dair away as hard as you can and then buffer a roll or spotdodge or something. and if youre getting wobbled, take time to think how you got grabbed, take deep breaths and dont get frustrated.

 

[Jim Jam Flim Flam]

What can i do against fsmash spamming Marths? It seems like everytime i try to read the fsmash and run in afterwards, the opponent is able to roll away. If i try to read a roll, i get hit by either a ftilt or dtilt instead. It just seems like there is a big wall in front of him that hits me everytime and i feel helpless

Also, i struggle to escape the fsmash when i try to get onstage from the ledge. It just seems like it gets me wherever i go. Even if i try to flip him over the edge with uair, the fsmash hits because of the ridiculous hitbox it has. Any tips on that?

If you can, get an overshot shffld nair in, because you can at least hit him and run away without taking damage. If you have the time, you could shoot an electric ball (is that what it's called?) right after he smashes and chase right behind it. He'll have to shield or jump to avoid it, and if he shields you can obviously grab him but if he jumps you can hit him with a nair, bair, or whatever kind of aerial you please, so long as he doesn't throw out a shffld fair.

 

[Cubelarooso]

electric ball (is that what it's called?)

Pika Bolt.

 

[Phez_]

Spike you very much Jim Jam

 

[soju]

It's a slinky!
You can use bthrow as a good way to separate them because ICs actually have less grab range than you and you are simply faster. SoPo is a ton easier to handle even if he still has his solo cg so think about that. Try to never approach straight on against an ICs and punish everything they do

 

[Phez_]

Whoops completely forgot about bthrow thanks soju

 

[CannaSwiss]

id also suggest learning a bit of ICs because it will really help you understand the character (I mained ICs for about 6 months)

Hmm, might consider giving this a try, my ICs hate is so strong I never even considered picking them up.

It's a slinky!
You can use bthrow as a good way to separate them because ICs actually have less grab range than you and you are simply faster.

Ok this is something I was trying (usually I would DD around til I saw popo move back leaving nana in front of him, then wavedash -> grab -> backthrow) and I can deal with the desync pretty ok, but I find that half the time I try to approach like this I get grabbed and possibly wobbled before I can get to nana. Is this just me approaching poorly?

 

[CannaSwiss]

Also thanks for the replies homies I really wanna beat this local ICs player haha

 

[The Jets]

You can do it!

 

[soju]

Find moments where you can actually punish. When against IC's try not to take risks, only go for guaranteed options. Everything in this game has some sort of lag, see what they are doing, you can punish them almost always if they go in the air, you can space out their approach with ftilt/dtilt, there are so many basic things that you don't even need to know the mind games or baits or hard reads. Learn what will beat out what, what to do when he does a move, find a reason for all the moves you do while knowing what you can do after you do the move, know what position is good for you or good for him, know the ways they can approach and force them to do the one that will benefit you the most. There are so many little things that you can work on, but the good thing is that you can work on them one at a time, if you can work on everything at once then more power to you but never overwhelm yourself as you tend to learn little if you think too much, try to improve something you lack every game you play.

Focus on mastering your basic fundamentals and you will beat that IC guy.

PS try not to double post I dont know how strict the mods are nowadays but they used to get people for it pretty fast. Just edit your first post man :]

@ N64 can you post the pika FB group on the front page, it'll be easier to answer little questions for people from there

 

[N64]

Added. good work

 

[CannaSwiss]

Ok it sounds like I need to put some time into getting to know ICs more closely.

PS try not to double post I dont know how strict the mods are nowadays but they used to get people for it pretty fast. Just edit your first post man :]

@ N64 can you post the pika FB group on the front page, it'll be easier to answer little questions for people from there

Thanks, i just started posting here so I need people to tell me about little stuff like this

 

[The Jets]

Does anyone SH Uair with up on stick and A? I only realized how to do it about a month ago, you slightly hold up as if using a tilt, I've always used Cstick. Any shortcomings to using Cstick? These are the things that haunt me

 

[soju]

It depends on you its generally easier to use cstick but the a button is a lot faster to press

 

[Defile]

Which of Pikachu's aerials has the most knockback: neutral air, back air, or down air? Each does 12% damage, so it seems like they should have the same amount of knockback. But from what I've heard, each of them has different knockback.

I just want to know which move to use as a combo finisher.

 

[soju]

% and knock back are different dair is what you want in terms of knock back though

 

[Jim Jam Flim Flam]

Which of Pikachu's aerials has the most knockback: neutral air, back air, or down air? Each does 12% damage, so it seems like they should have the same amount of knockback. But from what I've heard, each of them has different knockback.

I just want to know which move to use as a combo finisher.

Nair is the most used aerial because it's good for most everything, but as a combo finisher use an Uair spike if the enemy is off stage (spacing is tricky on that one though). If fox or falco are off stage and doing a firefox you can really use anything, all you want to do is stop the firefox animation. If you're in neutral and you wanna hit them off stage nair is the best option becuase it's less laggy than dair or bair and has more knockback than fair. If you can't decide, just use nair. It's quick, has decent knockback, and 30 frames of an active hitbox

 

[Defile]

Nair is the most used aerial because it's good for most everything, but as a combo finisher use an Uair spike if the enemy is off stage (spacing is tricky on that one though). If fox or falco are off stage and doing a firefox you can really use anything, all you want to do is stop the firefox animation. If you're in neutral and you wanna hit them off stage nair is the best option becuase it's less laggy than dair or bair and has more knockback than fair. If you can't decide, just use nair. It's quick, has decent knockback, and 30 frames of an active hitbox

I know all that. I was asking (from a strictly technical standpoint) what the difference in knockback between those three moves is.

 

[Defile]

% and knock back are different dair is what you want in terms of knock back though

So d-air has greater knockback than n-air and b-air? Also, isn't knockback determined by the percent damage a move causes?

 

[soju]

% damage and move knockback work differently try it out. There is also move hitstun and knockback direction. Think how fox usmash does 18% but is weaker than pika usmash that does 17 there are other examples but that's what I can think of

 

[Kuralesache]

I almost never use bair, but really as good a case as any for using it is that it is less likely to be stale. I use dair as a finisher when I can, but I think that whenever you don't have time for one, you should use bair. It lasts pretty long, but comes out nearly as fast as nair (1 frame slower), has better range and priority, and even has a decent landing hitbox that can stab shields or whatever you need it to. nair is better in its safety and combo potential, but if you're guaranteed a hit and you want to get someone off the stage, I would use bair, or dair if you have enough time. dair has an especially good disjointed hitbox, and tons of knockback

 

[soju]

It's all dependent though initial nair has more knockback and has more combo potential

dair has the best kill potential

bair lasts long has ok knock back and a good hitbox

 

[Jim Jam Flim Flam]

I know all that. I was asking (from a strictly technical standpoint) what the difference in knockback between those three moves is.

Dair has the most knockback, nair has the least knockback. Bair is in between dair and nair, but hitting someone with a nair at startup causes more knockback than hitting them with a nair already in progress

 

[Cubelarooso]

Early Nair does 12%, 18 Base knockback, 100 Knocback growth
Early Bair does 12%, 20 Base knocback, 100 Knockback growth
Dair does 12%, 20 Base knocback, 100 Knockback growth

Basically the difference is negligible; the frames are what really make the distinction. Nair is probably pretty stale, though, and knockback is calculated using the after-hit damage.

 

[soju]

Thanks cube, so i guess i was wrong about early nair doing more knockback, my bad yo!

 

[Kuralesache]

really interesting to know the data... it somewhat supports what we intuitively understand about the character, but it's strange that really they're so close in damage and knockback. I can't help but wonder why the developers gave pika 3 moves with nearly identical purpose. as I understand it, dair does not get any weaker if it hits later, while the other two do. maybe that is why it feels like it does more knockback, since I don't always hit nairs and bairs on frame 1

 

[N64]

My rule of thumb is:
Nair is default. It's easiest to land normally and follow up normally.
Dair is used practically whenever I can assure it will land (i.e. uthrow -> dair on mid-floaties at low percent). The slight windup time is the main detraction on it, but it recovers pretty quick and has more hitstun than nair, so for situations like my example I could potentially still get a followup (regrab, nair, or uair most likely) where nair might allow them to jump out or contest me with an aerial.
Bair is for when I want knockback or need the very slight hitbox range it has over nair.

 

[CannaSwiss]

Bair feels like a good switch up option. Just between them expecting a nair approach and that bair lasts for so long you can sometimes catch them out. You're screwed if you miss your L cancel on the bair tho the animation lasts for ages.

My rule of thumb is:

Bair is for when I want knockback or need the very slight hitbox range it has over nair.

How often is it that you need the slightly longer range? The range is definitely longer than nair but I don't feel like it's that much longer, are there certain characters that the difference in range is particularly useful for?