Ask a Question, Get an Answer Thread~[Read Before Asking a Question]

[MrMarbles]

I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure it's just strong and weak. It doesn't become weaker over time, it's

I could be wrong but this is just a clarification. It doesn't become weaker the longer it stays out, after a certain amount of time it changes from strong to weak. The length of time it stays out as weak does not change the knock back afaik. Only whether or not it is a strong or weak hitbox. Someone correct me if I'm wrong but that's my understanding of it.

yes i simply meant that it starts as strong and a a certain point in time becomes weak

 

[Quote720]

yes i simply meant that it starts as strong and a a certain point in time becomes weak

It looks like the other guy disagrees, but you seem more reputable than he does.

 

[MrMarbles]

It looks like the other guy disagrees, but you seem more reputable than he does.

we are actually in agreement, he just misunderstood what i was saying

 

[Quote720]

Ah I see what he meant. Knockback is not a function of time, but it is strong for one part of the attack and weak for the rest. I already assumed this, however, as this is N64, and there aren't enough resources to change knockback every frame. :D

 

[yOLORIN]

There is no spoon.

 

[Deleted member]

When I create a game, in client mode, I can't see the area to type at the bottom of the chat window. So, I can't even respond if someone talks to me. I've tried resizing the window, to make it smaller, but there's no option to do so. I'm wondering if it's some kind of compatibility issue with Windows 8.1. Anyone have any similar issues? Or know of a fix? Thanks.

 

[Madao]

When I create a game, in client mode, I can't see the area to type at the bottom of the chat window. So, I can't even respond if someone talks to me. I've tried resizing the window, to make it smaller, but there's no option to do so. I'm wondering if it's some kind of compatibility issue with Windows 8.1. Anyone have any similar issues? Or know of a fix? Thanks.

What happens when you try to make the window fullscreen?

 

[Deleted member]

What happens when you try to make the window fullscreen?

I cant even make it fullscreen. It's greyed out.

 

[Dulop]

Dumb question, but I have it since I was child

What the commentator says when the battle ends and announce the winner? I'm not english native, and I cant understand him.

"bla bla bla winner bla bla.. FOX"

 

[Capos]

"This game's winner is..."

 

[Gene]

What old tv/CTR do you recommend for playing Smash 64? I have an HDTV (50") but I heard N64 games look horrid on them. Even if I wanted to play my N64 on it the AV cord isn't compatable with my tv. Should I just buy a converter instead of a CTR?

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

What old tv/CTR do you recommend for playing Smash 64? I have an HDTV (50") but I heard N64 games look horrid on them. Even if I wanted to play my N64 on it the AV cord isn't compatable with my tv. Should I just buy a converter instead of a CTR?

I'd reccomend you not use an HD TV, mostly due to input lag/lag in general. In terms of CRTVs, I'll always recommend a Trinitron. Easy to find and inexpensive and good for 64/melee.

 

[Gene]

I'd reccomend you not use an HD TV, mostly due to input lag/lag in general. In terms of CRTVs, I'll always recommend a Trinitron. Easy to find and inexpensive and good for 64/melee.

I see, someone mentioned Trinitron on a different site that I was looking at. I searched Trinitron TV's on Amazon and the one's I've seen were a bit expensive. And the cheapest CRTV I saw was 80 bucks. At the moment my cheapest option would just be setting up netplay, which I was planning on doing 2 months ago but I doubt my laptop could handle N64 emulation. I guess it's time to start saving so I can build that PC.

I appreciate the help KoRoBeNiKi.

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

I see, someone mentioned Trinitron on a different site that I was looking at. I searched Trinitron TV's on Amazon and the one's I've seen were a bit expensive. And the cheapest CRTV I saw was 80 bucks. At the moment my cheapest option would just be setting up netplay, which I was planning on doing 2 months ago but I doubt my laptop could handle N64 emulation. I guess it's time to start saving so I can build that PC.
I appreciate the help KoRoBeNiKi.

you are in long island? Contact Jesse Hertz, ask him where he gets all of his crts/etc. I know there are places in NYC as I go to a 80 person or so weekly local and all tvs are CRYVs

 

[Annex]

Go to any thrift store. CRTs are a pain to dispose of, so a lot of people donate them, and few people buy them
I've never seen one for more than $5

 

[Gene]

Go to any thrift store. CRTs are a pain to dispose of, so a lot of people donate them, and few people buy them
I've never seen one for more than $5

I was thinking about checking out a couple of thrift stores in my area.

you are in long island? Contact Jesse Hertz, ask him where he gets all of his crts/etc. I know there are places in NYC as I go to a 80 person or so weekly local and all tvs are CRYVs

I'm from Long Island in the middle of nowhere, Middle Island. I'll message Jesse Hertz sometime this week.

Is the weekly that you go to only Smash 64?

 

[Madao]

I cant even make it fullscreen. It's greyed out.

I'm going to have to assume it's an OS related issue because I have win 7 and don't have that problem.

@ S Studstill , do you think you could help out? Iirc you have win 8.

 

[Quote720]

How many frames of lag is there during online play on average? How is it compared to an LED TV with the settings which cause extra lag turned off but no game mode?

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

I was thinking about checking out a couple of thrift stores in my area.

I'm from Long Island in the middle of nowhere, Middle Island. I'll message Jesse Hertz sometime this week.

Is the weekly that you go to only Smash 64?

It's melee but they use the same type of CRTV. He also knows way too many people. His name on here is HectoHertz

How many frames of lag is there during online play on average? How is it compared to an LED TV with the settings which cause extra lag turned off but no game mode?

1-7, depending on how close you are to the server. Most non p2p games I play are 3 frames, as I live pretty close to the server being in NYC. I think I know someone from Cali who gets 5 or 6 on smashfu or something similar.

In p2p, I'd probably get 4-5 with someone from San Fran

 

[Quote720]

I've heard that if you don't z cancel an aerial, there is extra hit stun on the opponent; is this true? If so, how exactly does it work?

 

[BananaBolts]

I've heard that if you don't z cancel an aerial, there is extra hit stun on the opponent; is this true? If so, how exactly does it work?

No, this is not true. Although, some aerials have another hitbox upon landing when they're not z cancelled.

 

[Quote720]

No, this is not true. Although, some aerials have another hitbox upon landing when they're not z cancelled.

I actually found someone talking about this this morning. I think they said it was push back or something, not hit stun, and that seems to match with what you're saying. Could someone please explain this in a little more detail?

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

I actually found someone talking about this this morning. I think they said it was push back or something, not hit stun, and that seems to match with what you're saying. Could someone please explain this in a little more detail?

Kirby's down air is a great example, there is an extra hitbox at the end that sends the opponent to the side. I think Jigglypuff also has an extra hit with d-air.

 

[Quote720]

Kirby's down air is a great example, there is an extra hitbox at the end that sends the opponent to the side. I think Jigglypuff also has an extra hit with d-air.

Yeah I found that on the Jiggly thread. So is there a special hit box that occurs when you land, or is it just the next hit box in the drill?

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

Yeah I found that on the Jiggly thread. So is there a special hit box that occurs when you land, or is it just the next hit box in the drill?

it occurs when you land with said move, as in you would have that htibox but the z-cancel prevents you from having ending lag...which in turn prevents that move from showing up.

 

[Quote720]

it occurs when you land with said move, as in you would have that htibox but the z-cancel prevents you from having ending lag...which in turn prevents that move from showing up.

So its the next hit box in the down air. Cool. Would it be safe to say that this effect applies to aerials with multiple hits?

 

[Tom Bombadil]

So its the next hit box in the down air. Cool. Would it be safe to say that this effect applies to aerials with multiple hits?

Generalizations like that are never "safe".

Pika Fair has an extra hitbox when not z-cancelled near the ground so that seems to support what you say.

However, as far as I remember (not at home right now to test) Yoshi Dair at the ground acts the same whether or not it's z-cancelled. So that would say that your generalization is wrong. Also, Mario and Luigi Dairs don't change when z-cancelled so yeah, definitely not a good generalization.

Here's a question: now that Sangoku and Mixa are banned, who do ask about frame specific stuff or bribe to TAS things for me?

 

[Shears]

Mixa got banned? These mods really dropped the hammer.

 

[BananaBolts]

I found out yesterday that Kirby's uair has another hitbox when not z cancelled. I was quite surprised. (it's NOT a multi-hit move)

 

[Studstill]

Banana clarify what you mean; that could just be an effect of hitting the ground with the move out, is it really a new hitbox, @ Madao ?

For @cuddlytoys :
So depending on Win7/8
You need to go hover over the taskbar where it has the PJ.
Hover until the little square preview window pops up, then rightclick that.
This should give you a variety of greyed or not options: Max, Min, Move etc.
Try maximize first. Then repeat for each step.
If this fails, you are in invisible move territory and I would google for hotkeys for your particular OS, but jsut hitting move, nothing else, and arrow keys might do it if the maximize trick doesnt.
Good luck.
@ Tom Bombadil :
Madao, myself, Star King are usually pretty helpful. Framedisplay is superuseful, but not so much for the janky ground cancelled interactions, as those are movement dependent and can be really 'close'. I did get stumped the other day, but got to the bottom of this one, check it out:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JpfNN2vtOO4#t=273

 

[Shears]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JpfNN2vtOO4#t=273

I didn't even notice that. What happens there exactly? Being asleep is ledge canceled, but how does this happen since the canceling requires the character to go off the ledge? Kirby is in roll when being put to sleep and rolling won't go off the ledge. Does this mean being put to sleep has a bit of knockback that pushes kirby off the ledge? Or is there momentum caused by the roll that is carried over when being put to sleep that pushed kirby off the ledge?

 

[Studstill]

yes i simply meant that it starts as strong and a a certain point in time becomes weak

This is one of those things where they are trying to make the fake video game reality (where Falcon isn`t actually exerting any 'effort') more like actual reality where a kick is strong at the beginning and weaker at the end, naturally.
One of my major points about SSB physics is the non-existence of priority, as a 'strong/weak' hitbox mechanic would seem to imply exists.
Move to move, all hitboxes are different. Even within a move there can be different hitboxes; different sizes, different damages, but no coded life-cycle of strong to weak.

Basically, Marbles is correct above, but in lay speak rather than technically, but if you want to be general:
The 'main' or 'primary' hit box of most moves will have more damage and knockback (these are still separately boosted/nerfed for the strong/weak illusion even if more damage will result in more KB regardless of if KB is increased or not) at the beginning of the move than at the middle or end. I`d still stress this is an illusion and a gross generalization (some moves are weaker at beginning, or middle, etc) , but could be a handy tool for explaining game concepts to a beginning player; you have to be careful to remain correct when referring to strong/weak in a technical sense.

I didn't even notice that. What happens there exactly? Being asleep is ledge canceled, but how does this happen since the canceling requires the character to go off the ledge? Kirby is in roll when being put to sleep and rolling won't go off the ledge. Does this mean being put to sleep has a bit of knockback that pushes kirby off the ledge? Or is there momentum caused by the roll that is carried over when being put to sleep that pushed kirby off the ledge?

Not sure what you mean by ledge cancelled, as its either irelevant or didnt happen here? Try just hovering over pause while the vid advances, clickclick.
So, a few things, actually, but yeah this is janky as hell:
https://imgur.com/cP6xEod
So let`s start from that picture, right before that, Jiggs jumps from under the main plat and sleeps, while I roll from somewhere on the main plat to the 'ledge' area. I am rolling to the maximum edge of that plat, the teeter area. This is where pushing can get janky, because as soon as you leave the ground, you are in a different state. Think wind+shieldbreak/rest.
1. Sleep does have a hitbox and knockback (120 Scaling and 60 Base, but 0 Fixed).
2. The blue point in the pic Iinked, I call it a 'contact point', is evidence of a hit, also there is a hit sound.
3. Sleep needs the target player state to be grounded (opponent must be on the ground), but Jiggles is under no such requirements to connect.
4. Sleep has its hitbox INSIDE of Jiggles body/hurbox.
5. When you roll, you just appear in a place. This sometimes causes interesting interactions because you have 'cheated' reality and thus are avoiding some of the programmed ways to help game 'physics' be more like real physics.

So, IMO, janky, lots of stuff going on, but it`s just what it looks like plus some ledge/push magic.

I come out of the roll, vulnerable, and the sleep hitbox is waiting for me.
I get 'hit/put to sleep' by the hitbox and pushed off stage by the hurtbox (Jiggles himself).
I can`t be sleeping because I`m not on the ground, thus I merely coast off the platform with the gentlest of knockbacks.
Oh wow. So yeah, even better description:
This is Darkhorse and me showing you the naked knockback power of a sleep. Behold, lol!

 

[MrMarbles]

Not sure what you mean by ledge cancelled, as its either irelevant or didnt happen here? Try just hovering over pause while the vid advances, clickclick.
So, a few things, actually, but yeah this is janky as hell:
https://imgur.com/cP6xEod
So let`s start from that picture, right before that, Jiggs jumps from under the main plat and sleeps, while I roll from somewhere on the main plat to the 'ledge' area. I am rolling to the maximum edge of that plat, the teeter area. This is where pushing can get janky, because as soon as you leave the ground, you are in a different state. Think wind+shieldbreak/rest.
1. Sleep does have a hitbox and knockback (120 Scaling and 60 Base, but 0 Fixed).
2. The blue point in the pic Iinked, I call it a 'contact point', is evidence of a hit, also there is a hit sound.
3. Sleep needs the target player state to be grounded (opponent must be on the ground), but Jiggles is under no such requirements to connect.
4. Sleep has its hitbox INSIDE of Jiggles body/hurbox.
5. When you roll, you just appear in a place. This sometimes causes interesting interactions because you have 'cheated' reality and thus are avoiding some of the programmed ways to help game 'physics' be more like real physics.

So, IMO, janky, lots of stuff going on, but it`s just what it looks like plus some ledge/push magic.

I come out of the roll, vulnerable, and the sleep hitbox is waiting for me.
I get 'hit/put to sleep' by the hitbox and pushed off stage by the hurtbox (Jiggles himself).
I can`t be sleeping because I`m not on the ground, thus I merely coast off the platform with the gentlest of knockbacks.
Oh wow. So yeah, even better description:
This is Darkhorse and me showing you the naked knockback power of a sleep. Behold, lol!

wow that was one of the strangest things ive seen in this game but yeah i think you are correct in your analysis after watching it over a few times

 

[Sedda]

Mixa got banned? These mods really dropped the hammer.

mixa didnt get banned

he sangoku'd himself

 

[BananaBolts]

Banana clarify what you mean; that could just be an effect of hitting the ground with the move out, is it really a new hitbox, @ Madao ?

I'm 100% certain, Studstill. I was hit by Kirby's uair and immediately hit again when Kirby landed. So I was hit twice by the uair. For the sake of further explanation, normal hits that make contact make two basic sounds: a strong hit sound and a weak hit sound. I'm leaving it in simple terms to make it understandable. Kirby's non z cancelled uair makes the strong sound upon contact whereas the aerial hitbox of his uair makes the weak hit sound.

 

[Fireblaster]

I thought it was common knowledge that kirby's uair, nair, fair, and dair had extra hitboxes when landing without cancelling

 

[Studstill]

I'm 100% certain, Studstill. [1] I was hit by Kirby's uair [2] and immediately hit again when Kirby landed.[3] So I was hit twice by the uair.[4] For the sake of further explanation,[5] normal hits that make contact make two basic sounds: a strong hit sound and a weak hit sound.[6] I'm leaving it in simple terms to make it understandable.[7] Kirby's non z cancelled uair makes the strong sound upon contact whereas the aerial hitbox of his uair makes the weak hit sound.[8]

extra hitboxes [9]when landing without cancelling[10]

1. Me too, this all sounds legit.
2. Ok!
3. Ok, again! *Yet* why do you think a hit box strike shouldn`t strike you twice? You can kick through a box or another character and sitll hit another character.
4. Yep! Sounds legit! ^^
5. This isn`t further explanation, it an explanation of sounds, which is the only time the words strong/weak technically apply to moves, I mean to say: Other than for sound, the game has no class of strong/weak moves, and sound is irrelevant to physics analysis.
6. This is absolutely correct.
7. Ok! Everything terminology-wise should be understandable and as simple as possible.
8. Not sure about this, I mean, probably true but idk sounds. I would like to say it seems that you make a distinction between "move" and "z-cancelled move" (actually, I don`t like Z-cancel, who cancels a Z, lets use lag-cancel)... so
A move has hitboxes. Of many knockbacks, damages, sizes and lifespans. These all behave in more or less the same way, in the air, but when aerial hitboxes interact with the a static or unmovable object, be that another hitbox, invulnerable hurtbox, or environment/stage/ground, then
things get janky.
This is a 2.5D game. The animations are in 3D and the game takes the active 2D plane in 17ms chunks.
Becuase of this, exactly when (in this 3D animation) the character 'hits' the ground is variable; exactly where the hit/hurtboxes are varies accordingly. When you lag-cancel, you literally end the move. It ends as soon as you touch the ground, as opposed to the 'natural' landing process of the move.
Hitboxes are 'attached' to hurtboxes. When Kirby gets 'big' his hitboxes don`t grow, but they move further away as his limbsa and body have grown. They do not break or detach. So when you touch the ground, the move`s hitboxes remain for a frame* and when your character`s body is forced to change from whatever exact contorted position it was in to simply standing, the htiboxes become warped in this janky interaction. You can see it clearly on Kirby Nair in hitbox mode.They stay attached exactly where they were, and warp to where Kirby`s feet went when 'standing'.
[9] These aren`t 'extra' hitboxes, they are simply the ones that were already there. There is no code to create new ones, they are still being governed by their normal rules as I stated above.
[10] Not being lag cancelled is unnatural, even if preferred. The natural physics play out without using Z, using Z abruptly modifies the normal process via ending the move (and thus the hitboxes) instantly.

 

[Madao]

This is a 2.5D game. The animations are in 3D and the game takes the active 2D plane in 17ms chunks.
Becuase of this, exactly when (in this 3D animation) the character 'hits' the ground is variable; exactly where the hit/hurtboxes are varies accordingly.

The game is 3D dude... There's X, Y, and Z. How else could you dodge lasers with attacks like Falcon's fsmash? Let's not make strong assumptions here.

 

[The Star King]

link's up B is pretty cool

This post is supposed to show Link upb hitboxes going out on the Z axis

**** Photobucket

but yeah it's why this happens

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iC93dniTO4M

cuz DK moves his head hurtbox a bit outwards

 

[ganas]

I've SD'd way too many times (mostly with Falcon) trying to do spikes off the edge that I accidentally do as a fast fall dair, which I intend to do as a normal dair. It takes me too far down to recover fast enough with the upb. It's rather embarrassing, is there anything I can read up on fast fall aerials or just fast fall in general?