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[Annex]

I don't think about it (or tilts either)
I think it just comes with practice

I always just tap it quickly with my thumb unless I want to hit a/b immediately after, then I'll slide my thumb across

 

[anonymouschris01]

Thanks guys, guess I'll keep practicing it till I get it down.

 

[Shears]

So I'm curious, and I probably sound like a noob, but whenever you guys short hop in a match is there any trick to it? I can short hop all day in training mode, but when I play an intense match I'm always mashing the buttons, is it something you really have to concentrate on doing like tilts, or can it be done easier?

You're button mashing because you're nerves are up and you're playing with instincts. Don't play with instincts, make everything a conscious thought out and observable action. You don't button mash in chess, poker, boxing so don't button mash in smash.

 

[Cobrevolution]

opposite school of thought to perfecting a technique being to forget about it

saw it in vic wooten's groove workshop - he said that, in order to perfect a technique, the best thing to do is not think about it. so if you want to practice 3 finger strums on bass (for instance), do so while trying to have a conversation about your day, one that requires you to just distance yourself from the task at hand.

i think the same can be done for smash. wanna practice ff uairs? put on some music and follow a concept album, or talk on the phone to someone while you do it, and focus on that conversation until it's second nature.

of course, this doesn't work for anyone, but it's a very interesting way to practice. worth a shot, too, if you're not seeing results with something. what've you got to lose?

 

[anonymouschris01]

Thanks again, I feel like I button mash because I want the attack or movement to come out as quickly as it can. I feel like CPUs pull out moves absolutely the soonest frame that they can, and can honestly prevent me from comboing them sometimes. So I mash the buttons so I can get out of combos. I'll try relaxing and having something in the background. Probably just something I need to practice and really concentrate on it.

 

[BananaBolts]

opposite school of thought to perfecting a technique being to forget about it

saw it in vic wooten's groove workshop - he said that, in order to perfect a technique, the best thing to do is not think about it. so if you want to practice 3 finger strums on bass (for instance), do so while trying to have a conversation about your day, one that requires you to just distance yourself from the task at hand.

i think the same can be done for smash. wanna practice ff uairs? put on some music and follow a concept album, or talk on the phone to someone while you do it, and focus on that conversation until it's second nature.

of course, this doesn't work for anyone, but it's a very interesting way to practice. worth a shot, too, if you're not seeing results with something. what've you got to lose?

I practice my tech while I'm on the phone with my girlfriend. At least 18 hours of practice has been done like that because we talk for roughly 30 minutes every other day. Time adds up quickly. It's also a good idea to do multitask while playing smash in a controlled, low-stress environment. Equating smash with low stress will yield good results when you play consciously with friend or foe. I'm not sure if the low-stress practice is good for tournaments or not. I've often heard, "Play with loud music or something when you practice to condition yourself for a crowd." I don't personally buy into that but it might work. I'll just stick with peaceful, second-nature smash.

 

[Shears]

Don't let your girlfriend know about that. I told a girlfriend I was playing smash instead of paying attention to her once. She gave me an ultimatum, take a wild guess what I picked.

 

[BananaBolts]

Don't let your girlfriend know about that. I told a girlfriend I was playing smash instead of paying attention to her once. She gave me an ultimatum, take a wild guess what I picked.

My girlfriend definitely knows because she'll ask what I'm doing and I'll tell her that I'm just playing smash. She always says, "as long as you can pay attention to me too, it's fine" or she'll say, "What if I want you to play with meeeee?". She's a keeper
I love her to death too. I'm going to ask her to marry me in the near future.

I'll probably be playing smash at my bachelor's party. lol

 

[Annex]

ssb > routine fanny

 

[BananaBolts]

I saw Madao's recent posts about landing lag after up-b and I noticed that Falcon is 4 frames(iirc) if he lands during the animation. I've been doing some thinking (not much testing 'cause Christmas) and I was curious to know if Falcon could recover to a platform and land mid-animation to get the 4 frames of lag.

@ Madao
I guess my question is:
How many frames is it possible to land mid-animation for Falcon's up-b?

I originally assumed that you forced Falcon to land on a vertically-moving platform but I've been wondering if you could land mid-animation on a stationary platform. (haven't tested because I can't play smash right now)
I also wanted to know if this is a viable tech to practice. It could open up interesting, however sub-optimal, movement options.

On the same note, is Falcon's up-b ledge cancel a real thing or am I getting 4 frames of landing lag that produce a similar effect?

 

[Cedricwa]

I heard to prepare for a tournament setting, film yourself playing smash, because it'll get you used to the feeling of people watching

 

[Cobrevolution]

you can ledge cancel falcon's upb

try to upb from the ledge on dl and ledgecancel the interior side of the side platforms

what i think is interesting is like, if you upb to peach's main plat from the moving plat with samus, your upb ends very early. i can't replicate it on dreamland. wonder why?

 

[Madao]

I saw Madao's recent posts about landing lag after up-b and I noticed that Falcon is 4 frames(iirc) if he lands during the animation. I've been doing some thinking (not much testing 'cause Christmas) and I was curious to know if Falcon could recover to a platform and land mid-animation to get the 4 frames of lag.

@ Madao
I guess my question is:
How many frames is it possible to land mid-animation for Falcon's up-b?

I originally assumed that you forced Falcon to land on a vertically-moving platform but I've been wondering if you could land mid-animation on a stationary platform. (haven't tested because I can't play smash right now)
I also wanted to know if this is a viable tech to practice. It could open up interesting, however sub-optimal, movement options.

On the same note, is Falcon's up-b ledge cancel a real thing or am I getting 4 frames of landing lag that produce a similar effect?

I'm 95% sure that the frame window exactly equals the length of the Up B's animation. Thanks to MCG, there's a convenient web-version of the frame display that me, Sangoku, and mixa did.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/88350135/webfd/framedisplay.html
If you look here, you'll see that Falcon's Up B is 64 frames. Sangoku and mixa did things differently than i did. For the 2 characters I recorded (Fox and Falcon), i recorded the exact length of Up B animation, while I think they recorded extra frames for the characters they did.

Anyway, a good way to know landing lag is to simply hold shield. If you want more in-depth knowledge, then cheat engine + mupen64-rr is good to use. It's quite convenient to use both of those, along with save states .

 

[BananaBolts]

I'm 95% sure that the frame window exactly equals the length of the Up B's animation. Thanks to MCG, there's a convenient web-version of the frame display that me, Sangoku, and mixa did.

I wasn't 100% clear, sorry. On a stationary platform, how many frames is Falcon able to land? I know that he can't land if he still has upwards momentum. I was curious about the frames where he can feasibly land without any platform movement.

This or something similar:
At X number of frames until he falls into the helpless animation on frame 64, Falcon can land on a platform.

 

[Chaostatic]

Hey dudes! Long time no talk!! How does one edge guard in Kirby dittos? Thanks!

 

[Madao]

Hey dudes! Long time no talk!!

Sup .

I wasn't 100% clear, sorry. On a stationary platform, how many frames is Falcon able to land? I know that he can't land if he still has upwards momentum. I was curious about the frames where he can feasibly land without any platform movement.

This or something similar:
At X number of frames until he falls into the helpless animation on frame 64, Falcon can land on a platform.

I'd have to look more closely to be able to answer that . What you could to is look at the frame display and see where his upwards momentum halts. I think that would be a simple way to figure out a rough estimate. It's been a while since I've done in-depth frame testing. Although some testing in Mupen64-rr may still be required to get perfect results, because I don't fully understand the landing collision mechanics. Maybe within a week, I'll do more frame testing and also finish up the characters I didn't do, for Up B landing.

In the meantime, you could simply try testing Falcon's Up B and holding shields. That alone will give you a good idea.

 

[Morin0]

I'll probably be playing smash at my bachelor's party. lol

 

[Geranimo]

Hi, will this replacement joystick do the job? http://www.ebay.ca/itm/BRAND-NEW-NI...g_Replacement_Parts_Tools&hash=item566e89fade

If not, what brand is the best or what can I buy one ebay?

 

[Studstill]

I'm fairly certain I just clanked a Kirby fair with a Falcon dtilt. Someone tell me what happened.

Standard game physics. I don`t feel like getting shouted down, so PM me if you want the answer.

 

[The Star King]

I don't see how that's standard game physics unless you have a different definition for clanking (since you're always so resistant to standard terms and all)

Han Solo was probably mistaken about what he was seeing

my guess is that you're interpreting it as trading, but that's probably not what Han Solo meant (aren't standard terms nice? I can tell what Han Solo meant probably)

Spoiler

sorry that you still got managed to get rebuffed

 

[Studstill]

Is that what counts for a rebuff in your neck of the woods? I kinda prefer when they have more solid ground than "I guess the both of you were confused but I`ll supply no answer otherwise."
I know exactly what happened, thank you; I don`t dislike non-"standard" terms, I prefer accuracy above all else and your 'standard' terms tend to be vague and plain wrong, so of course I wouldn`t use them.
Have a nice day!

 

[Cobrevolution]

you don't know "exactly" what happened.

aerials cannot clank with grounded moves unless they have a hitbox without z canceling...in which case it isn't even an aerial move anymore.

 

[The Star King]

Yes, missed z-cancel hitbox is a nice solution.

 

[Annex]

Kirby's fair has one?

 

[Han Solo]

I wouldn't have made the post if it didn't look so weird. Fox's up-b can clank with moves when he's on the ground, so I think it was something like that except with an aerial.

 

[The Star King]

Kirby's fair has one?

yep

I wouldn't have made the post if it didn't look so weird. Fox's up-b can clank with moves when he's on the ground, so I think it was something like that except with an aerial.

Are you saying you don't think it was the landing hit? Pretty sure that's the only possible way.

 

[Han Solo]

IIRC, Kirby was still in the air, but it's been almost two months.

 

[Studstill]

Of course Kirby was in the air, it`s a fair. And now you are saying that he can do aerials on the ground? Or that the "un-z-cancelled" hit is no longer an aerial? Man, it must be tough trying to reconcile all these flawed assumptions about game mechanics with reality. Solo, I totally believe you and sounds totally realistic. Not a glitch. Everyone have a nice day.

Standard game physics. I don`t feel like getting shouted down, so PM me if you want the answer.

I miss mixa.

 

[Madao]

IIRC, Kirby was still in the air, but it's been almost two months.

Was this on console? I've seen some really weird glitches, back when I used to play on console. Like reflecting samus's charge shot with a beam sword. I also found a glitch where I could steal a life for free if I time it right (press start right when teamate dies). I haven't been able to do that life steal glitch on emulator ;/ . Never tried the beamsword thing on emulator though.

Anyway, with all the weird stuff I've seen, I wouldn't be surprised if this actually happened.

 

[Han Solo]

Definitely on console.

 

[Horbie]

Of course Kirby was in the air, it`s a fair. And now you are saying that he can do aerials on the ground? Or that the "un-z-cancelled" hit is no longer an aerial? Man, it must be tough trying to reconcile all these flawed assumptions about game mechanics with reality.

If you don't Z-cancel Kirby's aerials, when he hits the ground there's a little puff of smoke that comes out, which has it's own hitbox. This puff of smoke is registered as a ground attack and can thus clank with another ground attack.
I find it most noticeable with his nair because his other attacks usually send the opponent too far away for the smoke to hit.

What they're saying makes perfect sense, though.

 

[Studstill]

The smoke has a hitbox. Can we get a visual confirmation on that?
You are the first person to mention a smoke hitbox. There were a few comments about the "un-z-cancelled" hitbox being some kind of ground aerial. All of this is wrong, just absolutely wrong, sorry! :D The fact that it makes sense is irrelevant, except at explaining the tenacity of unreasonable beliefs.
What is happening with the Kirbs Neutral Air is that the hitbox is simply still out, either the front or the back one, which due to the geography of that move combined with low damage quick recovery of say a Jiggs or a Yoshi makes the second (double hit) much more common.

At risk of being shouted down:
A hitbox must connect with a hurtbox for a hit. Two hitboxes can interact in a variety of ways and I am unaware of any aerial versus ground rule, what is that assumption based off of?
A quick look at http://FrameDisplay.SuperSmashBros64.com can show that the Kirbs Forward Air and the Falcon Down Tilt have ample room for the hitboxes to interact, harmlessly, without a hurtbox being involved. "Clank" is sloppy terminology because it then defines these things as needing the damage differential to happen, when in reality two hitboxes can interact easily without regard to what either of them is. This is why priority doesn`t exist, also, another chink in the move versus move analysis falling short.
To be as simple as possible:
If a hitbox does not hit a hurtbox, you will not get a hit.
This is most assuredly what happened to Solo, and without anyone needing to have a memory/observational lapse for it to make sense.
Please object to this with facts so I don`t regret posting it. Thanks! Have a nice day!
Edit: For better demonstration, and fun, try to land hits on Samus charge shot that produce this effect, like a non-fast falling Kirbs down air isn`t so hard to rig.

 

[KeroKeroppi]

who cares?????

 

[Morin0]

Does anyone know why when I try to set up a 2nd controller on pj64k the mapping automatically turns into "Keyboard:" ?

As soon as I click on a button to map it to something, it turns into "Keyboard:"

 

[caneut]

Does anyone know why when I try to set up a 2nd controller on pj64k the mapping automatically turns into "Keyboard:" ?

As soon as I click on a button to map it to something, it turns into "Keyboard:"

good Q

 

[Kimimaru]

Does anyone know why when I try to set up a 2nd controller on pj64k the mapping automatically turns into "Keyboard:" ?

As soon as I click on a button to map it to something, it turns into "Keyboard:"

I'm not sure why that happens, but what you can do is save your 1st controller settings and load them into the 2nd controller, then just adjust the Range and Deadzone of 2P. If you're using 2 different types of controllers you can save your current 1st controller settings, plug the other controller into the 1st port and save those, then load in both settings individually.

 

[Han Solo]

I just saw Fox uair clank with Kirby get-up-attack. I'm not sure if Fox received any sort of hitlag from the clank, but I definitely saw the "clank" animation.

So I guess aerial attacks CAN clank with ground moves, but maybe not each other?

 

[BananaBolts]

That's odd. Was Fox any significant height off of the ground? You're certain it wasn't a landing hitbox?

Edit:
For all of you falcon main's out there. Which hitbox is responsible for this trajectory?
I've seen it a few dozen times but I'm unsure of which hitbox causes this. It's obviously is a reverse hitbox of some sort but I don't know where the contact point is. I'm curious because I'm trying to use various uair tricks to extend combo potential.

 

[breakthrough]

I don't really feel like testing it myself so call me lazy if you wish, is it possible to sweetspot the right ledge of DL with Ness' upb?

 

[MrMarbles]

I don't really feel like testing it myself so call me lazy if you wish, is it possible to sweetspot the right ledge of DL with Ness' upb?

yes