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[NixxxoN]

In this case i would try to mindgame him using multi-fairs (while keeping a little bit far from him) and then a surprise falcon kick.

edit: if hes close to the pipe, use fair to sheidgrab, or use a simple ftilt if he tries to dashgrab and then you can punish him.

also you could try to short hop dair when he tries to grab you.

 

[dch111]

The pipe in the way makes it difficult to fake approaches properly...he's positioned so well, I must emphasize, that as soon as I touch ground on the other side, before I can even move, much less dashdance grab, I have been grabbed. His reaction time is crazy fast, and it doesn't help that Falcon's dashgrab is, too.

Edit: I'll think I'll try both your ideas the next time I play him and see how they work in any case. But I think with the fake approaches, I'll have to do many of them on the green pipe before finally going in since he isn't faked out by just a couple. Surprise Falcon kick usually doesn't work against him (crazy reaction time), but prolonged multi-fairs might wear out his patience. I'll play it patiently then, I guess, and see if I've figured him out.

edit: if hes close to the pipe, use fair to edgeshield, or use a simple ftilt if he tries to dashgrab and then you can punish him.

also you could try to short hop dair when he tries to grab you.

He won't approach me if I'm on the pipe, so tilts there won't work. He's just far away enough, to avoid attacks from the green pipe and just close enough to stop any landing attempt past the pipe.

Yeah, the short hop dair has actually been one of the most effective counters against him on most levels--just not here. It's time to sharpen up my mindgames.

 

[Blue Yoshi]

Here's another suggestion:

Use Fair just as you're about to land, so that as you land, your Fair hitbox is fully extended. If you hit him, grab him. If you miss, Z-cancel into a jab (one hit of the a button, not the multi jab). If the jab hits him, grab him.

So basically, Fair (miss) > Jab (hit) > Grab.

 

[asianaussie]

Um...has anyone said 'Don't play on Mushroom Kingdom'? That stage is deceptively small.

How the hell do you shdl with Fox? I haven't been able to get it once in normal speed, not even in 2/3 speed. Any tips on doing it? It's driving me insane.

For now I suppose I'll settle for shsl's...

In addition to everything else, DON'T MASH B. Watch some videos (I'd recommend the Sensei-Fox ones) and remember the timing for the 'pew-pew'. Then press the buttons with that timing.

I like SHSL better myself.

 

[dch111]

Here's another suggestion:

Use Fair just as you're about to land, so that as you land, your Fair hitbox is fully extended. If you hit him, grab him. If you miss, Z-cancel into a jab (one hit of the a button, not the multi jab). If the jab hits him, grab him.

So basically, Fair (miss) > Jab (hit) > Grab.

This might work...I just hope that jab comes out fast enough. If I lose a stock I will curse your name (jk)

Cheeseball: yeah, it was mentioned by Nybb. Won't work though, I can't convince them that it's not fun. Wish there was more of a competitive scene where I am.

 

[Blue Yoshi]

Nybb said not to play on Mushroom Kingdom already (post #393)

One thing you can do to force him from just staying on the side there is picking fox, and lazer spam from the other side of the stage. His projectile is probably the most effective. Characters with projectiles: Luigi, Mario, Link, Samus, Ness, Yoshi, Kirby (though his is not very effective and can easily be shield grabbed), Fox, Pikachu.

Here's two other options I can think of that does not involve projectile spam:

Use Kirby. Jump backwards into the area, use Bair as you're landing, Z-cancel it, then spam up-tilt. If he tries to grab you, you get 10 free uptilts, and you can follow it up with a back air to kill him.

Option 2: Use Jigglypuff and sing. Usually sing is a terrible move, but if all he does is dashgrab, sing will put him to sleep. Roll behind him, grab, and backthrow.

edit: beat me by one minute lol

 

[dch111]

Nybb said not to play on Mushroom Kingdom already (post #393)

One thing you can do to force him from just staying on the side there is picking fox, and lazer spam from the other side of the stage. His projectile is probably the most effective. Characters with projectiles: Luigi, Mario, Link, Samus, Ness, Yoshi, Kirby (though his is not very effective and can easily be shield grabbed), Fox, Pikachu.

I don't have a problem when I have projectiles. It's just Falcon vs. Falcon I'm concerned about. There's sort of a rivalry going on.

Here's two other options I can think of that does not involve projectile spam:

Use Kirby. Jump backwards into the area, use Bair as you're landing, Z-cancel it, then spam up-tilt. If he tries to grab you, you get 10 free uptilts, and you can follow it up with a back air to kill him.

This is really funny for some reason, and I like it. Actually, considering how fast he is he could probably grab me between uptilts...not even kidding (unless this is impossible)

Option 2: Use Jigglypuff and sing. Usually sing is a terrible move, but if all he does is dashgrab, sing will put him to sleep. Roll behind him, grab, and backthrow.

Naw, he's one of the smartest non(semi)-technical players I know, and wouldn't fall for that. He only dashgrabs when it's certain he can get it, and can change his mind when he sees danger in a single frame, and act accordingly. Now an extended teleport maybe...but again, that f'ing pipe

 

[Blue Yoshi]

Beat him at his own game. Choose player 2 or player 4, so you start on the right side. Then go to that side and do exactly what he does. If he does manage to prevent you from grabbing him, copy what he does to prevent you.

 

[dch111]

Naturally. Back to the basics I guess...learning from a level 3 lol. I'll try the other tactics you guys mentioned first. I have a feeling my reflexes won't be fast enough to do it as well as he does, but it's worth a shot.

 

[ballin4life]

Jump in like you're gonna approach, but instead double jump and then fast fall dair or bair. He will see you jumping in, start his dd grab, but you will double jump so he'll miss and be vulnerable to your attack

 

[Blue Yoshi]

Or another solution is play one of us online, and we can show you solutions to beating his strategy.

 

[dch111]

That's one of the things I've tried (maybe I didn't do it well), but it takes too long (since you can only fastfall after the apex of your double jump), and he can dodge and dashgrab the canceled air. As soon as the double jump is attempted, he already sees the ploy.

Edit: I'll get online someday...will find an adapter first. But I think I've got him figured out now...I'll see this weekend how I fare.

 

[SuPeRbOoM]

run past him then come back with sh dair and pwn him with w/e after

 

[dch111]

That's a pretty neat idea...I forgot about running into/through grabs to dodge them (never had the guts to, until now). Will try this out too. Thanks for the tips, guys!

 

[SSBPete]

go to the far left pipe, go in, pop up out of the other one and instantly falcon kick

edit: mabye i'm thinking of the wrong pipe

 

[DMoogle]

go to the far left pipe, go in, pop up out of the other one and instantly falcon kick

That's a good way to give your life to your opponent.

 

[Deleted member]

walk extremely slowly to your opponent and then f-tilt

 

[dch111]

Slowly would not be the answer to this fast-reacting guy (he even out-paces tilts, the sun of a gun).

I just played him today in a series of drunk smash with friends (take a shot for every KO you get, winner stays on and chooses settings aside from level being random). (I'm a bit drunk right now) The strategy of wait a bit longer with faked approaches over and over again worked perfectly (he just came to me after a bit). I'll test out the other ones if it becomes necessary. Actually I tested the one where you run into grabs a bit during some matches (not MK ones) and it works occasionally (but wonderfully)...I can definitely improve this to be very effective. I guess I was just being too aggressive before. Good tips, though, for the most part.

Edit: Actually we never played a falcon v falcon on MK that day

 

[Dajayman]

Holy sh*t! I did it!!! I shdl'd THREE times! Wow, thanks a lot for the advice guys. I must practice the hell out of this now since it's pretty tough to do. Thanks so much.

 

[ballin4life]

Once you can do it you get it like 90% of the time easily

 

[asianaussie]

Campy SHDL is %&*#@ for Link, Samus and Puff to face.

 

[Daedatheus]

SHDL is just like learning a hard riff on a guitar or some other instrument. You can't do it for **** at first but keep practicing and it becomes second nature.

There's really no difference, so just keep practicing and those 3 SHDL's will become an impossible-to-count-and-remember number.

 

[SuPeRbOoM]

I use downc for my shdl's lol, **** sliding

 

[dch111]

Sliding makes the second laser harder to shoot IMO whereas going from C to double-tap-B-in-one-swift-motion is more consistent..but might make your arm sore. Actually my left arm gets sore if I try the 270 degree method for teleport. So I use the "smash stick then jump"...but it's difficult to do extended teleport that way.

 

[LIVEFREEORDIEHARD]

Startnet

no comment

 

[P D]

whats the best TAS software and where can i get it and best way to record?

 

[Skrlx]

whats the best TAS software and where can i get it and best way to record?

there is no software it's a mupen plugin


now here's my question(s):

how do i deal with players who get out of DK's grab really quick.

like, i would grab and then they instantly get out.

What's a good way to continue attacking the person that gets out of the grab fast?

/inb4grabagain

 

[dch111]

Can they get out even before you can Fthrow? they must have near-TAS input, and there's nothing you can do about that. I would upB though, that's your best bet since I assume these guys also often get out behind you. other than that, grab again. Anything else is too slow. Maybe a SH Dair is fast enough, but I haven't tried it.

 

[Daedatheus]

Can they get out even before you can Fthrow? they must have near-TAS input, and there's nothing you can do about that.

He probably means before he can even move anywhere. If you instantly fthrow then I don't think anyone can escape that technically.

 

[Grahf]

Can anyone go indepth a bit and help me fully understand all the differences , pros and cons of Mupen and Project64?

 

[Lovage]

look in malva00's post history about it he did a write up once

 

[MattNF]

Mupen desyncs, crashes more, and uses more resources

but it has a good recorder for making videos and more games work on it

PJ64k is more popular and stable (for me at least) and uses less resources

 

[Dajayman]

So if sliding leftc to b is not the better option according to some people, then what do you guys recommend I do?

Sliding leftc to b is the quickest way I can fire a laser (I also now use it to perform quick shines), but I find getting the second laser off to be a bit difficult. I'll maybe get a successful shdl once per 10+ tries. But without sliding I can't fire the first laser quick enough.

 

[dch111]

Either method works...it's all about practice, like Daedatheus said.

 

[Blue Yoshi]

left c to b is probably the most convenient method unless you are used to something else (like boom using down c). It just takes practice. If you don't have the timing right, you won't have much success. Practice makes perfect.

 

[Daedatheus]

It just takes practice. If you don't have the timing right, you won't have much success. Practice makes perfect.

Exactly. I know a guy who SHDLs with Fox in Melee and uses the farthest jump button (X) to shorthop. Harder than 64 by far, but practice makes perfect

 

[remedys]

ty dmoogle.

 

[remedys]

when u shdl do u press b twice or mash it?

 

[rpotts]

Mashing works (for me) but it isn't as accurate and can sometimes make me do a SHDL then land and accidentally laser on ground or other mistakes. The trick is hitting the first b as soon as you jump (button sliding helps) then the second b as the first laser is firing. At least, that's how it was explained to me, but i mash cause it's easy and I'm decent at it.

 

[ballin4life]

Don't mash just get the timing down. Listen to someone else's shdl and you can hear the timing.