Artificial Intelligence?

[Deleted member]

I can but he won't use it correctly, i don't have a way to get him to know he has a super. He would only be using it randomly which would be pointless.

I just downloaded the recent update onto my Wii, and I noticed that Lucario now does perform his Ultra. It's a little bit random like you said, but at least it works now.

 

[KingClubber]

Yes, i added the input while working on him and Mewtwo. I found it was better that he does it rather than not. I forgot that a lot of new players really don't bother checking character notes, and post. This way they will either figure it out how to do it themselves or ask someone about it after seeing it done by the Cpu.

 

[Kankato]

Yes, i added the input while working on him and Mewtwo. I found it was better that he does it rather than not. I forgot that a lot of new players really don't bother checking character notes, and post. This way they will either figure it out how to do it themselves or ask someone about it after seeing it done by the Cpu.

Teaching through example? That's a really clever idea!
Have you considered/already implemented stuff like Waddledashing(D3), SHL (Falco & Fox), Hovering (M2), and perhaps Sheik's & Yoshi's ledge stall? A lot of these techniques could really intrigue any stray casuals who download Project M one day and never bothered looking up the new tech.

Also, if it's not too much trouble, could you could add a Moonwalking CPU Falcon taunt between stocks (think Falco's Rapid Shine following a kill)?

 

[Mr.Random]

Luigi has good AI too. Play against him as Fox and he'll rock your world. I was thinking of entering a doubles tournament with an AI as a partner LOL. Lv. 9 Luigi.

 

[KingClubber]

@ Kankato

Yes, Done, Yes, Yes, and Yes.

 

[Bent 00]

KingClubber, I sent you a message about this already, but it still says "Never Read", so I'll try posting it here:

First of all, really great work so far on improving the CPU AI in Project M. I don't get to play it against other people often, so the more difficult AI adds a lot to the game for me.

I actually play the "Brawl Minus" mod a bit more than Project M, though, and I'd like to ask: Would you please help improve the CPU AI for that mod as well, if you ever have the time? I don't think anyone on the Minus Team has the experience or time necessary to do the job, unfortunately. Even if you only do a few fixes, like making the AI use DI and recover properly, that would be a big help. Perhaps you could just port over cross-compatible fixes from Project M?

Thanks for your time, and please keep up the great work.

http://www.smashmods.com/forum/thread-6589.html

 

[KingClubber]

@ B Bent 00

 

[Bent 00]

@ B Bent 00

Uh... I'm not quite sure what you're saying with that .gif there. Care to spell it out for me?

 

[KingClubber]

I tried being nice...by not answering.

No.

I worked with the Minus Dev's before, if they wanted my help they would have contacted me a long time ago.

 

[Bent 00]

I tried being nice...by not answering.

No.

I worked with the Minus Dev's before, if they wanted my help they would have contacted me a long time ago.

If the Minus devs were to ask you to help improve the Minus CPU AI now, would you? They just don't want to borrow anything directly from Project M.

Better AI is something Minus fans want a lot - it just hasn't been a priority for the developers.

 

[KingClubber]

If they were to come and ask me themselves sure, i'll do some stuff for them but working on Project M's AI is MY priority.

 

[Bent 00]

If they were to come and ask me themselves sure, i'll do some stuff for them but working on Project M's AI is MY priority.

Awesome, I'll let them know.

 

[MewtwoX825]

Yo the ai is really cheap now. Not complainig about higher difficulty but some characters like luigi are able to input moves really fast that i cant even land a hit on them. It also seems like they can also read imputs like ai from other fighting games do which is both cheap and a dumb thing to put in.

 

[DKMikey]

Yo the ai is really cheap now. Not complainig about higher difficulty but some characters like luigi are able to input moves really fast that i cant even land a hit on them. It also seems like they can also read imputs like ai from other fighting games do which is both cheap and a dumb thing to put in.

The harder the AI is, the better. I'm tired of wailing on these sandbags.

 

[Sashimi]

People complaining about the AI being difficult is probably a good sign that KingClubber is doing a great job.

 

[Tryst]

Yo the ai is really cheap now. Not complainig about higher difficulty but some characters like luigi are able to input moves really fast that i cant even land a hit on them. It also seems like they can also read imputs like ai from other fighting games do which is both cheap and a dumb thing to put in.

I am pretty sure that they aren't doing things faster than it is possible for us to do.

 

[SixSaw]

The fact that the CPU reads your inputs is noticeable occasionally. Especially if you try playing on a flatscreen with lag. Sometimes it feels like you're fighting ****ing Neo lol

 

[MewtwoX825]

The Mario bros Ai needs a nerf but whatever I can tolerate level 9s playing extreme but i dont think lower level cpus should have play on the same level.

 

[HyperrCrow]

The Mario bros Ai needs a nerf but whatever I can tolerate level 9s playing extreme but i dont think lower level cpus should have play on the same level.

This is the first time I've heard anyone complain about AI in this manner and it sounds ridiculous.
Since when is AI being smarter and implementing useful techniques a bad thing? If it's that hard for you to beat a CPU that will literally run into all of your attacks, I don't know what to tell you bud.

 

[C_Mill24]

While I do praise the AI for being more aggressive and able to DI excessively, the AI is too aggressive. They SD way too often.

 

[MewtwoX825]

I cant even get close to them sometime as they execute the moves right after i press the damn button and they still land the hit first wtf! Just because one person thinks its stupid that they play like lv 9 one lower levels doesn't mean they need to change them to play like babies but they should least balance them for people who cant perform tekken level skills

 

[HyperrCrow]

I cant even get close to them sometime as they execute the moves right after i press the damn button and they still land the hit first wtf! Just because one person thinks its stupid that they play like lv 9 one lower levels doesn't mean they need to change them to play like babies but they should least balance them for people who cant perform tekken level skills

You literally only have to use smash attacks to beat the CPU's still. You don't need "tekken level skills" to beat them, they're as easy as ever. You can literally hang on the ledge and win the game.

 

[MewtwoX825]

Lol did that and I don't see how cause they edge guard and counter smash attacks unless its stage specific. Plus I actually want to fight them rather then me or the ai have to cheat to win. Dont know a lot of people who plays this and i dont play online cause dont have the time to get at a competitive level

 

[HyperrCrow]

This'll probably end up being my last post because I don't want to derail this thread, but you don't play on a competitive level because you don't have the time, but want the AI to be downgraded or "nerfed" to the level of a dead cow so you can steamroll through them? Seems legit.
If you want to fight them in a fair manner and not resort to "cheating" or cheap tricks, then you better learn how to play bud, the new AI may be over-aggressive but they are most certainly not the hardest ever to play against. Learn their tricks and you'll have an easier time.
If not, you better learn to code AI so you can downgrade them yourself

 

[Zeallyx]

I just want to say that you (KingClubber) have done an amazing job with the AI so far: it makes playing alone A LOT more fun.

I can't wait to see the possible future AI improvements that you have in store for us.

Amazing stuff man!

 

[Bero]

@MewtwoX825
I can agree with you partially.
It is annoying that cpus act inhumanly such as powershielding jabs, revenging against your attacks by faster attacks.
Such moves are indeed "cheap" and should be fixed(we didn't implement such cheap moves but Brawl developers did it).
However, since the main targets of Project M are competitive players, the cpus will be stronger and stronger.
Stuffs like combo routine wouldn't be removed in future release.

 

[KingClubber]

thx for the support, but i really wish you guys would thank the others as well. I would not have gotten this far with AI without their help. So Thank the PMBR, not just me.

 

[Zeallyx]

thx for the support, but i really wish you guys would thank the others as well. I would not have gotten this far with AI without their help. So Thank the PMBR, not just me.

Of course, my apologies: I mean to convey my gratitude to everyone who made PM possible. It's my favorite Smash game atm and that's saying a lot: I've been a fan since 64.

My thanks goes to everyone involved with PM for making PM possible and the updated AI is an amazing extra.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

If you care about beating the AI, then get better.

If you don't want to get better/don't have time/whatever, stop caring about beating the AI.

Don't know what else to tell you, it's still hard for good players to get practice out of CPUs. At least chaingrabs are (somewhat) practice-able due to better DI.

 

[Bent 00]

thx for the support, but i really wish you guys would thank the others as well. I would not have gotten this far with AI without their help. So Thank the PMBR, not just me.

There are others working on the CPU AI? I thought it was just you. Who else is there? I guess you do need input on how a character's AI should act from someone who knows that character very well; you probably don't know every character inside and out.

BTW, KingClubber, heard anything from the Minus developers? I told them what you said, but they haven't said anything back yet.

 

[KingClubber]

@ Bero & @Dantarion also does AI coding. Bero coded most of the DI stuff, and pretty all the Combo Routine. He was the first to Break Hardcode AI stuff. He created the AiScriptPad 2.0 program that i use to do most of my coding. He shows different ways of getting results, also helps me get things done when he's not bust work on the Japan Version, or his own projects. Dantarion does AI code from time to time but none of his work is in PM as he far more busy getting things done like the Clone Engine. He broke down a major part of AI to help us understand how things work. They are both the reason why AI coding can be done. Their work begins a year and a half before i even joined the PMBR.

@Magus, @Strong Bad , @standardtoaster , and @MonkUnit are the ones i turn to if i need raw data, or even just stuff i need to know about the game's mechanics. Magus with the help of Bero Created new Code for AI which makes coding them even easier now.

@Calabrel, @GMaster171 , and @Juushichi are my main playtesters, they help a bunch, and get to try all the weird and cool stuff that doesn't make it into releases due to bugs. They aren't the only playtesters who have helped but they give me the most input.

@Shell, and @shanus are great theorist, both can do AI coding but have more important things to do, together they helped get Cpu's tech'ing as well as they do today.

---

@ B Bent 00 - Nope.

 

[Bent 00]

Wow, I had no idea it took that many people to improve the CPU AI to the point it's at now. What a team!

Thanks to everyone involved so far.

Just thought of a question: Are all of the CPU AI improvements made so far contained in the FitCharEtc.pac and Fighter.pac files only, or are some of the unidentified codes in the Project M codeset responsible for AI behavior too?

 

[burntfish44]

so i just came to ask - are they gonna be doing any work on the AI in upcoming versions of PM?
For those of us that dont have someone to practice for the time being, and want to learn the falco matchup - just to have him fail his up b every time he gets knocked off stage

 

[UltimateWario]

So...

Anyone else notice that thing Lucario does where he'll just...

...keeeeeeep on chargin' that Aura Sphere? Like, forever? Until you get close or hit him?

I haven't noticed it with Mewtwo and Shadow Ball, but that doesn't mean it's not there. Lucario, though, will stand there and charge Aura Sphere forever, regardless of you charging up some kill-potential projectile just a few yards out of his range. Approaching will generally cause him to do something, although I don't think this is always the case. Can't tell you how many times he's started charging that Aura Sphere and I've been able to back off, charge Shadow Ball or the Charge Shot, then kill him with it.

Might be something to look into; though I have to commend the entire team on their amazing skill with making the AI much scarier than before, especially as I have no one above casual level to play with.