Are you happy that Dark Pit made it in?

[Wintropy]

Is Duck Hunt really a highly popular and requested choice? I see people saying Sakurai picks characters based off popularity, but I have not once, ever, on any website by any person, see someone say "I wish the Duck Hunt dog got in the new Smash Bros.! He's my favorite Nintendo character ever!"

While being popular defintiely gets you a benefit, I think Sakurai just does whatever the hell he wants whether it's popular or not. Remember tripping, and how many people wanted tha in the game.

To be fair, the fanbase is there, though I think it's largely negligible with regards to how it influenced Sakurai's choices. I think it just so happened to be the character Sakurai wanted for the game and it coincidentally overlapped with the inherent fanbase's desires.

I think Dark Pit is much the same: he wasn't added because he's popular, but he does have his fans, whom are understandably very very happy to see him in the game. And good for them, y'know?

 

[LancerStaff]

Look back at my post, and look at the list of things I said I would have preferred.

Now come back and act like none of them would've been possible with the same people.

Yeah, they can't work on decloning veterans with the same people who work on clones, there's no overlap there
1. You need to be clearer about what you're responding to.
2. Then show it.
That's not an argument. That's an assertion. Look up the difference. And backing it up with more unsupported assertions doesn't turn it into a well-formed argument either. The facts are that 1. Sakurai has explicitly said that he doesn't just use popularity to make his decisions and 2. Sakurai has specifically solicited character requests in the past. But regardless of how he makes his choices, that doesn't make them automatically the correct choices anyway, so your argument doesn't even prove what you want it to.

As for the ZSS-Ridley thing... You'd need to, you know, actually show that Ridley is less popular than Zero-Suit Samus. Just saying Samus is more popular doesn't really show that. Not to mention the fact that adding a second version of the same character is not going to be equivalent to adding a first version.

Decloning veterans would likely alter the balance more then adding clones like what we got, and there's a perfectly good reason the big one, Ganondorf, hasn't changed. Besides, this is after all the other characters are finished.

"Try asking any level-headed character-that-didn't-make-the-cut fanbase what they think of the idea."

"Why don't you, instead of claiming to know what everyone thinks based on your own opinions."

"I have, smart guy."

Do I really need to go in-depth on how Pac-Man is ten-thousand times more well-known then Lyoid? And yes, Sakurai has mentioned that he's taken requests into account. Never that he bases his decisions solely on them.

ZSS is currently in two SSB games as a playable character, while Ridley is sitting at a big, fat zero. Considering they're from the same series and the only other way Metroid gets exposure is SSB, anybody can deduce that ZSS is more popular then Ridley. Proving popularity before the present is futile.

Is Duck Hunt really a highly popular and requested choice? I see people saying Sakurai picks characters based off popularity, but I have not once, ever, on any website by any person, see someone say "I wish the Duck Hunt dog got in the new Smash Bros.! He's my favorite Nintendo character ever!"

While being popular defintiely gets you a benefit, I think Sakurai just does whatever the hell he wants whether it's popular or not. Remember tripping, and how many people wanted tha in the game.

Again, it's not about requests. DHD is a popular character, but people didn't ever really think of him in the context of SSB. DHD got in on general popularity. Duck Hunt was one of the two big games that were packaged with the NES, usually together.

 

[Onett kid]

You know, I'm gonna feel sorry for sakauri if one of his characters gets top tier. So many people will just say it's because sakauri purposly made that character the best because of his "biasness".

 

[LancerStaff]

You know, I'm gonna feel sorry for sakauri if one of his characters gets top tier. So many people will just say it's because sakauri purposly made that character the best because of his "biasness".

So basically what happened last time.

 

[Onett kid]

So basically what happened last time.

Well, pretty much. But then again, I don't think that people were mad at sakauri at the time, though in relations to his character additions.

 

[LancerStaff]

Well, pretty much. But then again, I don't think that people were mad at sakauri at the time, though in relations to his character additions.

People always hate Sakurai, for one thing or another.

 

[NocturnalQuill]

Is Duck Hunt really a highly popular and requested choice? I see people saying Sakurai picks characters based off popularity, but I have not once, ever, on any website by any person, see someone say "I wish the Duck Hunt dog got in the new Smash Bros.! He's my favorite Nintendo character ever!"

While being popular defintiely gets you a benefit, I think Sakurai just does whatever the hell he wants whether it's popular or not. Remember tripping, and how many people wanted tha in the game.

Duck Hunt is an original character with what so far looks like a very interesting and unique playstyle. Dark Pit is a clone of Pit with no discernable differences. Hell, "Dark Pit" was already an alternate costume in Brawl. Sakurai may not necessarily do what people think they want*, but he does what he thinks they'll like. Duck Hunt is an unexpected but interesting addition. Dark Pit is a shameless clone that contributes nothing.

*(Except Sonic. Sonic was pure and shameless fanservice crammed in at the last second of Brawl's development, probably by higher ups. But that's a topic for another thread.)

 

[Erimir]

Decloning veterans would likely alter the balance more then adding clones like what we got, and there's a perfectly good reason the big one, Ganondorf, hasn't changed. Besides, this is after all the other characters are finished.

So you're saying they couldn't have possibly done anything differently, really?

I doubt that the amount of time spent to make three new characters requires less work than changing a couple moves here and there on various veterans. The balancing they have to do to change one of Ganondorf's moves is not going to be more than the amount of work to balance an entire new character while keeping it different enough to be worth making a clone rather than a costume, that's ridiculous.

Do I really need to go in-depth on how Pac-Man is ten-thousand times more well-known then Lyoid?

1. Who the **** is Lyoid? Do you mean Lloyd?

2. I doubt Lloyd was more requested than Pac-Man.

3. What does that have to do with anything?

ZSS is currently in two SSB games as a playable character, while Ridley is sitting at a big, fat zero. Considering they're from the same series and the only other way Metroid gets exposure is SSB, anybody can deduce that ZSS is more popular then Ridley. Proving popularity before the present is futile.

Repeating, yet again, that you're using Sakurai's decisions as evidence that Sakurai's decisions are correct and good doesn't make it suddenly a valid argument.

Not to mention that all this is just for you to argue that people are wrong to want something other than what Sakurai has given us. Which is a stupid reason to argue anyway. You can be happy with your lazy Pit clone if you want, but there's nothing wrong with different people wanting different things.

I'm overall pleased with the game, but that's not enough for you. You want me to lick Sakurai's balls and say that every decision he made was perfect. It's not going to happen.

There is not one perfect way to make the game, discoverable through pure logic. You'll never be able to prove that this is as close to perfect as possible or whatever your point is supposed to be, so why are you bothering?

And unless you're going to go set up some scientific surveys or focus groups to prove that this was the most crowd-pleasing decision, you're just throwing around your opinion like it's fact when it's really not. At all.

 

[LancerStaff]

So you're saying they couldn't have possibly done anything differently, really?

I doubt that the amount of time spent to make three new characters requires less work than changing a couple moves here and there on various veterans. The balancing they have to do to change one of Ganondorf's moves is not going to be more than the amount of work to balance an entire new character while keeping it different enough to be worth making a clone rather than a costume, that's ridiculous.
1. Who the **** is Lyoid? Do you mean Lloyd?

2. I doubt Lloyd was more requested than Pac-Man.

3. What does that have to do with anything?
Repeating, yet again, that you're using Sakurai's decisions as evidence that Sakurai's decisions are correct and good doesn't make it suddenly a valid argument.

Not to mention that all this is just for you to argue that people are wrong to want something other than what Sakurai has given us. Which is a stupid reason to argue anyway. You can be happy with your lazy Pit clone if you want, but there's nothing wrong with different people wanting different things.

I'm overall pleased with the game, but that's not enough for you. You want me to lick Sakurai's balls and say that every decision he made was perfect. It's not going to happen.

There is not one perfect way to make the game, discoverable through pure logic. You'll never be able to prove that this is as close to perfect as possible or whatever your point is supposed to be, so why are you bothering?

And unless you're going to go set up some scientific surveys or focus groups to prove that this was the most crowd-pleasing decision, you're just throwing around your opinion like it's fact when it's really not. At all.

No, they couldn't of. The other characters were finished and were being balanced by the moves they had. Changing the moves to different ones would disrupt the balance pretty bad, especially a Ganondorf rehaul. Said rehaul would also waste all that work on balancing him so far, too. Changing a few properties and numbers is easy, and easy enough to balance since they're working off the old character.

Lyoid, Lloyd, Loyd, all in my spellcheck apparently. Lyoid is a talking Gyroid from AC, and I clicked that by mistake. Doesn't help that I have AC on the mind.

Pac-Man was outright dreaded. What I'm pointing out is that requests/anti-requests mean diddly in the long run.

No, ZSS is more popular right now because of her appearances in SSB. You claimed that Ridley was more popular, remember?

It's just stupid that people are asking for more when it wasn't possible.

There's no perfect decision. I'm just explaining Sakurai's thought process to you. Rather then pleasing minorities with more obscure and genuinely unpopular characters, Sakurai adds characters that appeal to the average player, leading to more people satisfied with the roster.

I can prove Ridley or whoever was a bad choice or couldn't make it otherwise, though.

I've told you, the best time for something like this would be after SSBU's release.

 

[Erimir]

No, they couldn't of. The other characters were finished and were being balanced by the moves they had. Changing the moves to different ones would disrupt the balance pretty bad, especially a Ganondorf rehaul. Said rehaul would also waste all that work on balancing him so far, too. Changing a few properties and numbers is easy, and easy enough to balance since they're working off the old character.

Of course all this is based on your assumptions as to when work on the clones started. Considering that Lucina was shown a couple months ago and that animation would have had to be commissioned well before it was shown, it's not like they were all created last month or something.

Pac-Man was outright dreaded. What I'm pointing out is that requests/anti-requests mean diddly in the long run.

He had a significant hate-base here, but there was still a large number of people who wanted him. And I haven't heard anything about Japanese players hating the idea of Pac-Man. To the extent that requests matter, Japanese requests probably matter more.

No, ZSS is more popular right now because of her appearances in SSB. You claimed that Ridley was more popular, remember?

This is still just an assertion.

I never said Ridley was more popular, I said that it's not so obvious that he isn't that you can just assume so. I also pointed out that Samus fans are not necessarily going to prefer ZSS to Ridley, because while there are undoubtedly more Samus fans, they might still prefer Ridley to a second version of Samus.

It's just stupid that people are asking for more when it wasn't possible.

When you're assuming it wasn't possible, despite having no inside knowledge of how development went.

Yeah, if they want a full newcomer, or even Mewtwo who would've likely been almost the same amount of work as a newcomer, then they're wanting too much.

But the thing about nothing else being possible is just your unsupported assertions.

Rather then pleasing minorities with more obscure and genuinely unpopular characters

Except you're claiming that characters are "genuinely unpopular" based on no evidence and acting like they should accept your opinion as fact.

I mean, if people were asking for Prince of Sable, Poo, Dr. Kawashima, Eggplant Wizard, Birdo, Ricky Winterborn, or even Lip, then we could assume that. But you're not limiting your talk to such obvious cases.

I've told you, the best time for something like this would be after SSBU's release.

Then maybe quit acting like your opinions are fact until you get the evidence to back them up.

 

[Desert Croc]

I don't think Dark Pit deserves to be in the game. The third Kid Icarus rep (though it wasn't really needed) should have been someone with potential for an original and unique moveset such as Medusa or Magnus.

 

[Wintropy]

I don't think Dark Pit deserves to be in the game. The third Kid Icarus rep (though it wasn't really needed) should have been someone with potential for an original and unique moveset such as Medusa or Magnus.

I'd actually like to see Magnus's true potential. We only ever see him hitting things with his sword and kicking bad guys in the face - I bet Sakurai could work wonders with the guy's moveset.

I can also see Medusa as an alt for Palutena in the same way that I can see Dark Pit as an alt for Pit. Nice to see her somehow, though.

I think Viridi and Hades are the most likely candidates if there's ever going to be another Kid Icarus character. Dark Pit is just easier to make and not as stressful as brand new additions, so I can appreciate that Sakurai wouldn't want to spend too much time and effort on another Kid Icarus character right now.

 

[LancerStaff]

Of course all this is based on your assumptions as to when work on the clones started. Considering that Lucina was shown a couple months ago and that animation would have had to be commissioned well before it was shown, it's not like they were all created last month or something.
He had a significant hate-base here, but there was still a large number of people who wanted him. And I haven't heard anything about Japanese players hating the idea of Pac-Man. To the extent that requests matter, Japanese requests probably matter more.
This is still just an assertion.

I never said Ridley was more popular, I said that it's not so obvious that he isn't that you can just assume so. I also pointed out that Samus fans are not necessarily going to prefer ZSS to Ridley, because while there are undoubtedly more Samus fans, they might still prefer Ridley to a second version of Samus.
When you're assuming it wasn't possible, despite having no inside knowledge of how development went.

Yeah, if they want a full newcomer, or even Mewtwo who would've likely been almost the same amount of work as a newcomer, then they're wanting too much.

But the thing about nothing else being possible is just your unsupported assertions.
Except you're claiming that characters are "genuinely unpopular" based on no evidence and acting like they should accept your opinion as fact.

I mean, if people were asking for Prince of Sable, Poo, Dr. Kawashima, Eggplant Wizard, Birdo, Ricky Winterborn, or even Lip, then we could assume that. But you're not limiting your talk to such obvious cases.
Then maybe quit acting like your opinions are fact until you get the evidence to back them up.

*shakes head* Characters are one of the first things completed, because everything else uses them. Not necessarily balanced, but they all have to work. This means they had plenty of time to include Lucina and DP in the respective trailers.

Miiverse once again proves you wrong. Pac-Man was dreaded just about everywhere. No, I cannot prove he was disliked in Japan, but that boat has pretty much saled.

You'd be surprised how many people play characters without knowing a thing about the character's home series. The "casual" fans that like ZSS outnumber all Ridley fans ten ways to Sunday. Just compare the sales data of SSB to Metroid.

If something was possible, they would of made it. Simple as that. Sakurai himself has said that he hates cuts, so Wolf and Lucas most likely had higher priority then the three clones combined. Didn't happen, so there wasn't enough time.

I have my evidence, it's just not something you can share. I've asked many supporters of K. Rool and Ridley over the years what people think about the characters. K. Rool especially has a narrow fanbase, as evidenced b support topics/posts. I'm sorry that you haven't taken a look around beyond Smashboards, but I guess making a poll will prove this all to you.

Not all evidence is something you can just present at any given moment, yaknow.

 

[SonicMario]

Miiverse once again proves you wrong.

Uh, since when was Miiverse considered that valid of a place of gauging character want/dislike?

If the "Take a break from Debate, laugh at Miiverse posts" signifies anything there's want and dislike for every single character for Smash there. Including Smash veterans that were basically shoo-ins to return. And that's not even getting into all the ****posting/trolling that you usually get daily on the Smash Bros. community board that is on Miiverse, or even getting into the impossible character requests like Goku.

And even if it was well-known that a majority of Miiverse hated the idea of Pac-Man. I think a user here named Smashboar remembers more how there was an entire group saying "Pac-Man was in the clouds" ever since the Greninja trailer. Meaning there was also those who wanted Pac-Man on Miiverse. Cause only supporters of characters would discuss minor clues that might mean their character was hinted at being in the game (Even if it was basically straw gasping).

Also as far as I know, most of the Pac-Man dislike only was more so because of the "modern" Pac-Man design you see in the recent cartoon which most whether you supported, were neutral, or disliked the idea of Pac-Man's inclusion was usually the one thing people were most concerned about. But then when he does show up, he's in a much more classic looking design that instantly made him grow on most people. And after his reveal, it just became more so "Mario Vs. Sonic Vs. Megaman Vs. Pac-Man Hype Train!" for a while.

 

[Erimir]

*shakes head* Characters are one of the first things completed, because everything else uses them. Not necessarily balanced, but they all have to work. This means they had plenty of time to include Lucina and DP in the respective trailers.

You've lost the thread. How does this support the idea that they couldn't have spent more time revamping/refining veteran designs?

You'd be surprised how many people play characters without knowing a thing about the character's home series. The "casual" fans that like ZSS outnumber all Ridley fans ten ways to Sunday. Just compare the sales data of SSB to Metroid.

Sales of SSB vs. sales of Metroid don't tell you how many ZSS fans there. This argument is awful. There are 39 other playable characters in SSBB. ZSS doesn't have to have ANY fans, Smash would still sell. And even people who like playing as her aren't necessarily going to become such big fans that they prefer her over other choices.

Additionally, by that logic, how many Ridley fans were created by his inclusion in Melee's opening (when ZSS was absent) and as multiple bosses in Brawl?

You can't really know unless you assume ZSS is inherently more appealing, which would just be your opinion.

You don't really have anything here except assumptions.

If something was possible, they would of made it. Simple as that.

I was talking about content other than additional unique characters on the roster. You're saying nothing else was possible other than what he did. Which is BS.

Sakurai himself has said that he hates cuts, so Wolf and Lucas most likely had higher priority then the three clones combined. Didn't happen, so there wasn't enough time.

It's possible that had he prioritized one of them over the Ice Climbers, for example, that they would've had time. But that's neither here nor there, since that wasn't my argument anyway.

Not all evidence is something you can just present at any given moment, yaknow.

Yeah, but you ought to realize that evidence you can't present is not a basis for telling other people they should believe you and yelling about how wrong and stupid they are.

I mean, the fact that there WAS a poll of Smashboards that had Mewtwo, Ridley and K Rool all near the top doesn't mean anything to you. Why should you saying "actually, they're not that popular, I can't prove it, but I have the evidence and you're obviously wrong" mean anything to me or anyone else?

 

[Satoru Iwata]

How can this be?

 

[Mariohuge]

I'd like to just point out here that no one has absolute, factual proof that Dark Pit was a waste of resources. They also don't have factual proof that Dark Pit was NOT a waste of resources. But either way, he's just a clone. Sure, we would want more from him, but he's easier to add in as a clone. It's simple common knowledge. Think of him not as a waste of dev time, but as a little bonus.

And besides, Sakurai tweeted months before the release of Smash 3DS that the 3DS version was 100% complete. Save for the ZSS costumes, I presume. Maybe Dr Mario got in to appease to the melee fans, even though they didn't have time to get in Mewtwo. Maybe Dark Pit got in because of the fact that Sakurai made Uprising (which really doesn't matter either way-it's not gonna have a sequel for 25 or so years, so why not add a little extra from that game before it fades into obscurity again?). Maybe Lucina got in to laugh at the whole Gematsu thing, I dunno. Like I said-think of the clones as bonuses, not detriments.

If anything, we still have Megaman and Pac-Man.

 

[LancerStaff]

Uh, since when was Miiverse considered that valid of a place of gauging character want/dislike?

If the "Take a break from Debate, laugh at Miiverse posts" signifies anything there's want and dislike for every single character for Smash there. Including Smash veterans that were basically shoo-ins to return. And that's not even getting into all the ****posting/trolling that you usually get daily on the Smash Bros. community board that is on Miiverse, or even getting into the impossible character requests like Goku.

And even if it was well-known that a majority of Miiverse hated the idea of Pac-Man. I think a user here named Smashboar remembers more how there was an entire group saying "Pac-Man was in the clouds" ever since the Greninja trailer. Meaning there was also those who wanted Pac-Man on Miiverse. Cause only supporters of characters would discuss minor clues that might mean their character was hinted at being in the game (Even if it was basically straw gasping).

Also as far as I know, most of the Pac-Man dislike only was more so because of the "modern" Pac-Man design you see in the recent cartoon which most whether you supported, were neutral, or disliked the idea of Pac-Man's inclusion was usually the one thing people were most concerned about. But then when he does show up, he's in a much more classic looking design that instantly made him grow on most people. And after his reveal, it just became more so "Mario Vs. Sonic Vs. Megaman Vs. Pac-Man Hype Train!" for a while.

Since when was it not? You're just not understanding. I've been there for years, lurking the random communitys while talking with friends. It's pretty darned easy to pick out the legitimate hate from the trolling.

Yes, I'm aware of the Pac-man in the clouds and it's supporters. A few weren't fans and saw it as a conformation of a character they didn't want.

Nah, there's still plenty of people upset at his inclusion. Miiverse basically exploded when he was announced in the interview.

You've lost the thread. How does this support the idea that they couldn't have spent more time revamping/refining veteran designs?
Sales of SSB vs. sales of Metroid don't tell you how many ZSS fans there. This argument is awful. There are 39 other playable characters in SSBB. ZSS doesn't have to have ANY fans, Smash would still sell. And even people who like playing as her aren't necessarily going to become such big fans that they prefer her over other choices.

Additionally, by that logic, how many Ridley fans were created by his inclusion in Melee's opening (when ZSS was absent) and as multiple bosses in Brawl?

You can't really know unless you assume ZSS is inherently more appealing, which would just be your opinion.

You don't really have anything here except assumptions.
I was talking about content other than additional unique characters on the roster. You're saying nothing else was possible other than what he did. Which is BS.
It's possible that had he prioritized one of them over the Ice Climbers, for example, that they would've had time. But that's neither here nor there, since that wasn't my argument anyway.
Yeah, but you ought to realize that evidence you can't present is not a basis for telling other people they should believe you and yelling about how wrong and stupid they are.

I mean, the fact that there WAS a poll of Smashboards that had Mewtwo, Ridley and K Rool all near the top doesn't mean anything to you. Why should you saying "actually, they're not that popular, I can't prove it, but I have the evidence and you're obviously wrong" mean anything to me or anyone else?

The balance is an ongoing thing, and it's honestly not worth trying to do unless you have everybody. Furthermore, balancing and creating moves are done by the same people. Costumes are done by model designers while looking at hit/hurtboxes. DP wasn't created solely by the model team. Basically, adding more characters would cut into the overall balance. Clones? They really don't, being so similar to the originals.

Now you're losing the track. It's about overall popularity, and many SSB players would be able to name ZSS just by looking at her. The same players would not recognize Ridley as well, considering he's just a boss.

Nearly zero, as he wasn't playable.

Some monster, more appealing then an actual human character? We're talking about quick impressions here, and Ridley, not having any immediate appealing qualities, doesn't leave much of one besides "boss from game I've never played." (He doesn't even have redeeming qualities in his own games, I might add.)

So now you're just saying you wanted different content? This is getting pretty whiny.

Not so fast, you kept bringing up that the clones supposedly took a veteran's spot. They didn't.

I've been saying that I have little to present since the beginning, and I've explained why generic request polls wouldn't prove a thing here. Unless it was a rating of one-to-ten, you're wasting your breath bringing it up.

 

[Erimir]

Now you're losing the track. It's about overall popularity, and many SSB players would be able to name ZSS just by looking at her. The same players would not recognize Ridley as well, considering he's just a boss.

Familiarity is not the same as popularity. You literally just equated popularity with recognition. By that logic Hitler is way more popular than the Dalai Lama.

Come on dude, you can do better than that.

Nearly zero, as he wasn't playable.

Fans can't be created by non-playable appearances? That's a new one.

This is the level of straw-grasping you're going to?

Some monster, more appealing then an actual human character? We're talking about quick impressions here, and Ridley, not having any immediate appealing qualities, doesn't leave much of one besides "boss from game I've never played." (He doesn't even have redeeming qualities in his own games, I might add.)

You sure proved your point with that logical argument there. And nobody has ever found a dragon more appealing than a human character. Nobody thinks dragons look cool. There aren't millions of people who have played Metroid games.

It's not just your own opinion glossed over as if it were fact.

So now you're just saying you wanted different content? This is getting pretty whiny.

You're probably having trouble following things because of how you structure your replies and don't keep track of what I'm referring to.

I said I would've preferred the effort spent on Dark Pit (and Lucina and Dr. Mario) to be spent on improving the other characters on the roster. That's what I said way back when, but you seem to be having a hard time remembering what I said and keep on assuming I'm talking about other things.

Not so fast, you kept bringing up that the clones supposedly took a veteran's spot. They didn't.

I did not. I said it was maybe possible that they could've made a Brawl veteran with the effort spent on the three clones put together (since some of the data could be ported over from Brawl), but I wasn't hinging my argument on that.

You're confusing me with other people. Try to follow along better.

I've been saying that I have little to present since the beginning, and I've explained why generic request polls wouldn't prove a thing here. Unless it was a rating of one-to-ten, you're wasting your breath bringing it up.

And I've been saying that since you don't have any evidence you should stop acting like your opinion is fact.

Like when you pull out that bull**** about how Ridley isn't appealing at all. Based on ****ing what? The fact that he's not appealing to you? That's literally all you have! Your opinion, that you're ascribing to everyone else. And when you're asked for evidence, you say it doesn't exist. But never mind the fact that you don't have evidence, we should believe you anyway. Like the guy with the Dark Pit-related avatar is so objective and it's only everyone who disagrees with him who is biased.

Because why? Because Dark Pit is your boyfriend and you can't stand the fact that most people on this board don't like him and you think if you just state your opinion forcefully enough people will change their minds. The survey - right at the top of this page - says most people don't like him, and only a small minority like his inclusion. And this is in the Dark Pit subforum!

They don't like him. Get over it. And don't get too attached, because Dark Pit is going to be first on the chopping block come time for Smash 6.

 

[LancerStaff]

Familiarity is not the same as popularity. You literally just equated popularity with recognition. By that logic Hitler is way more popular than the Dalai Lama.

Come on dude, you can do better than that.
Fans can't be created by non-playable appearances? That's a new one.

This is the level of straw-grasping you're going to?
You sure proved your point with that logical argument there. And nobody has ever found a dragon more appealing than a human character. Nobody thinks dragons look cool. There aren't millions of people who have played Metroid games.

It's not just your own opinion glossed over as if it were fact.
You're probably having trouble following things because of how you structure your replies and don't keep track of what I'm referring to.

I said I would've preferred the effort spent on Dark Pit (and Lucina and Dr. Mario) to be spent on improving the other characters on the roster. That's what I said way back when, but you seem to be having a hard time remembering what I said and keep on assuming I'm talking about other things.
I did not. I said it was maybe possible that they could've made a Brawl veteran with the effort spent on the three clones put together (since some of the data could be ported over from Brawl), but I wasn't hinging my argument on that.

You're confusing me with other people. Try to follow along better.
And I've been saying that since you don't have any evidence you should stop acting like your opinion is fact.

Like when you pull out that bull**** about how Ridley isn't appealing at all. Based on ****ing what? The fact that he's not appealing to you? That's literally all you have! Your opinion, that you're ascribing to everyone else. And when you're asked for evidence, you say it doesn't exist. But never mind the fact that you don't have evidence, we should believe you anyway. Like the guy with the Dark Pit-related avatar is so objective and it's only everyone who disagrees with him who is biased.

Because why? Because Dark Pit is your boyfriend and you can't stand the fact that most people on this board don't like him and you think if you just state your opinion forcefully enough people will change their minds. Get over it.

And don't get too attached, because Dark Pit is going to be first on the chopping block come time for Smash 6.

You act like they're not related at all. A character cannot be popular without being known.

Nearly, firstly. And secondly, two seconds in a CGI trailer does not suddenly make people like him.

You just aren't understanding the natural human trait of association. People can associate with, yaknow, people much easier then personality devoid reptiles.

It would of went straight into balancing the roster. Which will also be done for at least a year now with patches. Yeah, more people care about the clones then balance adjustments that will be made anyway.

Not that you have anything better. It goes both ways. You have absolutely zero evidence that Ridley is more popular then ZSS, for example.

Based on what I've seen and heard. Every Metroid fan I personally know thinks Ridley is just a generic monster with no redeeming qualities besides regeneration from eating human flesh.

Don't you see? People have changed their minds. The rest just can't find a good reason to continue hating and quit. http://smashboards.com/threads/the-...n-thread-pittoo-edition.368197/#post-17604173 This is evidence that at least one has changed his mind. Oh, and this poll allows multiple answers and there's two no options. And I'll say it yet again, most DP fans don't even know he's in.

They said the same thing about G&W and ROB, didn't they? Toon Link too. It's also hypocritical of you to say that, since if Sakurai is as biased as you say, he'll be in the next game with a unique moveset on top of it. That's, like, the most hollow thing you've said.

 

[Unkown Hero]

Boy, you two really like fighting, huh Almost as much as Pit and Dark Pit

Anyway couldn't you just agree that you are both right and call it a day, please?

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

Boy, you two really like fighting, huh Almost as much as Pit and Dark Pit

Anyway couldn't you just agree that you are both right and call it a day, please?

Nope. I butted heads with CancerStaff myself. He's just as abominable to argue with as Erimir makes him out to be. Others might make legitimate points, but Staff will constantly make things up, create assumptions, dismiss evidence, and **** all over other series whenever he decides to just so that he can praise Dark Pit as a holy grail of an addition that is miles more merited than any other character that didn't make it into the game, ever.

Even if he was right about half of what he talks about, he would not accept the idea of Erimir being right at the same time. It's too morally objectionable to Dark Pit for him. I don't agree to Dark Pit, but literally anyone else making this argument would do the Kid Icarus fanbase a better service than CancerStaff. You can't reason with someone who doesn't use reason themselves, after all.

If you want to help the argument come to an end or a compromise at the very least, you're better off getting involved yourself.

 

[IsmaR]

That's enough of passive-aggressive hostility. This topic is accomplishing absolutely nothing.

If you don't like the character, good for you, don't come to his board.

If you like the character, good for you. Not everybody has to.

Lastly, speculation as to the reasoning for the roster has long since been over since the SSB4 Character Discussion forum closed. If you really want to keep wondering about what-ifs and debating what you KNOW (as in what you, not-Sakurai, can tell for certain is a FACT), take to Social Groups.