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They were. People wanted Lucina to not be a Marth clone but she ended up being designed as one. Total waste of potential by Nintendo, but there's nothing we can do.
Clones don't steal slots. They don't take up slots. They didn't ask themselves "should we add this character or this character", they probably wouldn't add Takamaru or Ashley regardless of whether Lucina or Dark Pit got their own slot or not. That's just not how characters work. If they wanted to add a character, they would, not because they had to pick and choose.
Clones take resources to make like any other character. For all that they're worth, the models could have been thrown into the alt costume group and the rest of the time and effort could be put into something interesting and worthwhile.
Wrong.
Fixed that for you.
Yes, they could of added something else. But why not add more characters? Why is it so bad a character got in over a costume?All this talking about how Dark Pit didn't take anyone's slot - I agree.
But he did take resources. He still took resources that could've been spent elsewhere.
Adding more characters just to increase the roster size, when they don't add much to the game (i.e. clones), doesn't necessarily make the roster better. It's better for every character to be considered a valuable addition rather than last minute filler. There's a reason movies have editing, and it's not because more is always better. Especially considering that there's custom moves and equipment in the game! That makes clones even less interesting. Yeah, they have features that aren't affected by that - Dr. Mario's Pills and especially Dr. Tornado, Lucina's different sword mechanic. Dark Pit... actually doesn't have anything really different except his Final Smash, which is basically the least important part of a move set.
You know what I would've preferred the resources for Dark Pit, Lucina and Dr. Mario be spent on?
- Bringing back a veteran (while clones are less work than newcomers, bringing back veterans is also less work)
- More significant decloning of Ganondorf, Falco and Toon Link
- Adding Battlefield forms to stages in addition to Final Destination forms (or instead of FD forms for some stages). Making them part of For Glory mode.
- Other tweaks to veterans along the lines of Link and DK's new dash attacks
- Additional alt costumes (possibilities include Impa, Mr. L, OoT Ganondorf, Proto Man, Skyward Sword Zelda, Outset Link...), possibly including changing certain palettes swaps into full costumes (Fierce Deity Link, SS Link, Light Suit Samus, Fusion Suit Samus, Daisy, etc.). Leaving the clones as alt costumes, of course.
- Improved game play balance
- Other content like ATs for underrepresented franchises such as DK
Thinking we could've gotten Ridley, K Rool, Isaac, unique Dixie Kong, or whoever instead of them, even all three of them, is likely incorrect. But there are definitely things we could've gotten instead. They weren't free, and some of those changes would've been possible.
Especially the decloning would've been good and definitely would've been possible with the same amount of resources (in case you think another veteran would be too much work). It would've made it seem like every character was lovingly crafted - instead of getting last-minute filler and clone veterans that are still clones. And in Ganondorf's case, still bear little resemblance to the actual character. Every roster slot being a winner is better than getting more slots, but several of them seeming like lazy/minimal effort additions. Better that people wish for more rather than better.
Fixed that for you.
Yeah, only Metroid fans are interested in playing as bad-*** purple space dragons. Ridley's not at all appealing to anyone else
And unique move sets interest people far less than clone move sets which might create an interestingly different play style.
So people are gonna grow to love Dark Pit, but nobody would play Ridley because reasons.
Ridley has no fans outside of Metroid die-hards, but Dark Pit will be beloved by the wider audience, because casuals love getting literally the same character* twice (because of how much they value slightly different game play over totally different flavor). Also we're going to ignore the fact that Metroid is a much larger series.
C'mon man, you could be a bit less blatantly biased.
*Yeah, he's not literally the same character. But outside of Kid Icarus fans, that's what he looks like. You wanna bring up casuals who don't know who Ridley are, then casuals who see Dark Pit as Palette Swap Pit who gets his own slot for some reason are just as relevant. I'm sure that Lucina and to a lesser extent Dr. Mario will be better received than Dark Pit among casuals because Lucina is actually a different character, and Dr. Mario actually looks different and has more significant move set differences.
that is simply incorrect.All this talking about how Dark Pit didn't take anyone's slot - I agree.
But he did take resources. He still took resources that could've been spent elsewhere.
Adding more characters just to increase the roster size, when they don't add much to the game (i.e. clones), doesn't necessarily make the roster better. It's better for every character to be considered a valuable addition rather than last minute filler. There's a reason movies have editing, and it's not because more is always better. Especially considering that there's custom moves and equipment in the game! That makes clones even less interesting. Yeah, they have features that aren't affected by that - Dr. Mario's Pills and especially Dr. Tornado, Lucina's different sword mechanic. Dark Pit... actually doesn't have anything really different except his Final Smash, which is basically the least important part of a move set.
You know what I would've preferred the resources for Dark Pit, Lucina and Dr. Mario be spent on?
- Bringing back a veteran (while clones are less work than newcomers, bringing back veterans is also less work)
- More significant decloning of Ganondorf, Falco and Toon Link
- Adding Battlefield forms to stages in addition to Final Destination forms (or instead of FD forms for some stages). Making them part of For Glory mode.
- Other tweaks to veterans along the lines of Link and DK's new dash attacks
- Additional alt costumes (possibilities include Impa, Mr. L, OoT Ganondorf, Proto Man, Skyward Sword Zelda, Outset Link...), possibly including changing certain palettes swaps into full costumes (Fierce Deity Link, SS Link, Light Suit Samus, Fusion Suit Samus, Daisy, etc.). Leaving the clones as alt costumes, of course.
- Improved game play balance
- Other content like ATs for underrepresented franchises such as DK
Thinking we could've gotten Ridley, K Rool, Isaac, unique Dixie Kong, or whoever instead of them, even all three of them, is likely incorrect. But there are definitely things we could've gotten instead. They weren't free, and some of those changes would've been possible.
Especially the decloning would've been good and definitely would've been possible with the same amount of resources (in case you think another veteran would be too much work). It would've made it seem like every character was lovingly crafted - instead of getting last-minute filler and clone veterans that are still clones. And in Ganondorf's case, still bear little resemblance to the actual character. Every roster slot being a winner is better than getting more slots, but several of them seeming like lazy/minimal effort additions. Better that people wish for more rather than better.
Fixed that for you.
Yeah, only Metroid fans are interested in playing as bad-*** purple space dragons. Ridley's not at all appealing to anyone else
And unique move sets interest people far less than clone move sets which might create an interestingly different play style.
So people are gonna grow to love Dark Pit, but nobody would play Ridley because reasons.
Ridley has no fans outside of Metroid die-hards, but Dark Pit will be beloved by the wider audience, because casuals love getting literally the same character* twice (because of how much they value slightly different game play over totally different flavor). Also we're going to ignore the fact that Metroid is a much larger series.
C'mon man, you could be a bit less blatantly biased.
*Yeah, he's not literally the same character. But outside of Kid Icarus fans, that's what he looks like. You wanna bring up casuals who don't know who Ridley are, then casuals who see Dark Pit as Palette Swap Pit who gets his own slot for some reason are just as relevant. I'm sure that Lucina and to a lesser extent Dr. Mario will be better received than Dark Pit among casuals because Lucina is actually a different character, and Dr. Mario actually looks different and has more significant move set differences.
I'm thinking that they'll just throw those characters in the Wii U version.
Final Smash huh?!
Read my post again, because I said why.
That's not evidence.
You quoted my whole post. You're going to have to be a bit more specific about what you think is incorrect.
Is Charizard a clone of Yoshi in general... No Dark Pit is a clone through and through at least the Doc (who has now somehow grown on meI'm so happy that he's in the game and I was disapointed that he's a clone but now I don't care!
And the guys who says "Dark Pit's final smash is the same as Zelda/Sheik ... What a shame" look at Charizard's Final Smash:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQmd_uaGNBw I love it but ...
It's pretty similar to
) has Mario's old move-set if Dark pit had the Brawl pit move-set I would main him in an instant.
should of had the Brawl Move-set if he did I would have loved him, but alas wasted potential.
So you basically just want to cut the clones because of some arbitrary feeling that they make the game incomplete? That's hardly something to argue. It's an opinion held by very few people.
It's not an arbitrary feeling. Clones do feel lazier than full characters. They were less effort. It's like if they put four more Mario Kart courses in - but they are just the same stages but with different colors and boosts in different places. I don't think that would make Mario Kart better, even though it would introduce more variety and pad the course list. Do you really think that would make people like Mario Kart more, or do you think they would be annoyed at how lazy the courses were instead? Do you think it would be "arbitrary" for people not to be enamored of these additional "bonus" courses? Or do you think their time would've been better spent improving other aspects of the game?
Why don't you, instead of claiming to know what everyone thinks based on your own opinions.
The problem is that you don't actually know whether it's that, you're just assuming that they're more popular because Sakurai picked them. Because your whole argument is that Sakurai doesn't make mistakes, therefore his choices are correct.
Gane development doesn't work like that. Separate people work on the different aspects of the game with minimal overlap. I've known this for years. Isn't this kinda just general knowledge? The point is that cutting the clones would do very little for other aspects of the game. If anything, I'd say the only reason you're attempting this angle is because you want to see some legitimate downside to adding clones when there really isn't.
Have fun playing Ice Climbers as your main.
It's not an arbitrary feeling.
And yeah, if you ask most people if they would prefer clones to nothing, that's what they'd pick. But if the question is improving specific other aspects of the game or getting clones to pad the roster, taking into account the fact that custom moves already fulfill a large part of the purpose of clones, the answer might be different.
Why don't you, instead of claiming to know what everyone thinks based on your own opinions.
The problem is that you don't actually know whether it's that, you're just assuming that they're more popular because Sakurai picked them. Because your whole argument is that Sakurai doesn't make mistakes, therefore his choices are correct.
What is your evidence for ZSS being more popular than Ridley... other than the fact Sakurai picked her? Cuz I haven't seen you actually use anything else as evidence.
Gee, that empty spot sure looks nice.
*55% of people who answered the poll.
14,000 + is a huge number to draw from, especially when the only characters he was compared to was newcomers.
It doesn't matter how huge the numbers are when there's an inherent bias. Serious question: Where was this poll held?
Look back at my post, and look at the list of things I said I would have preferred.
1. You need to be clearer about what you're responding to.
That's not an argument. That's an assertion. Look up the difference. And backing it up with more unsupported assertions doesn't turn it into a well-formed argument either. The facts are that 1. Sakurai has explicitly said that he doesn't just use popularity to make his decisions and 2. Sakurai has specifically solicited character requests in the past. But regardless of how he makes his choices, that doesn't make them automatically the correct choices anyway, so your argument doesn't even prove what you want it to.
