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Any tricks in beating All-Star VERY HARD with no continues?

Zorrioh

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Ok so me and my brother have been working on completing everything in SSBM but there is one hurdle that we can't seem to overcome. We are trying to beat All-Star mode, on Very Hard, with no continues. We have tried and tried but can't seem to beat it without a continue. I am wondering, are there any hints or tricks we could use to accomplish this? Is there a certain character we should use? Any info on this would be a great help. We want to beat it before SSBB comes out!
 

~Tac~

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Jiggs is a good one. But risk getting Usmash'd in he midst of a 3 opponent match.

Fox's laser spamming. CF Knee spam. Run away with Bowser and catch em with Fsmashes.

Also, save one Heart Container till the final G&W onslaught. Too deadly.
 

A_Mammoth_rib

Smash Rookie
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Sep 2, 2006
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Lombard, IL
This stuff works with Marth, don't know about anyone else.

Doc will suicide if you grab the lefternmost edge on MKII and do a high ledgehop(so, don't try to sweetspot the edge). If timed right he will try to fair you and the invincibility frames will protect you and he will fall. He will try to recover to the high ledge where you are for some reason and you can edgehog him.

You can make Mario suicide by ledgehopping on the front of the boat in RC. He will try to fair and should eventually ^B underneath the ledge.

Vs. Pichu, try to get him to the left of you and hang on the left side of the building farthest to the right. He will try to fair/dair you and fall in so just roll back onstage when he does. If you just stand there he will ^B past the building you're standing on.

Yoshi sometimes will use >B on you, just jump over the edge and he will roll off. I can't figure out how exactly to make him do that though.

Ganon on Brinstar Depths. Roll to the edge near you and wait. When Ganon tries to dair you spot dodge, grab and dthrow. You will probably need to spike him twice.

You should be able to dthrow->spike Samus early on the left platform if you hog the edge below afterward.

Against Mewtwo on Battlefield, immediately dash just far enough right so that a dthrow will send him over the edge. He should land right behind you so turn left, grab, and dthrow. If you spike him at the right time he will ^B under the stage.

Most characters will end up dying on Icicle Mountain if the screen scrolls up very quickly. Hope this ends up as one of your 1v3 stages.

Most of Marth's attacks go through the high part of Peach's castle so you can camp there easily.

You can utilt/usmash through the upper platform on Great Bay, then jump to the other side when someone reaches you.

Abuse laggy grabbers like the Links and Samus.

Against the G&W team try to stay under platforms so they will drop down peacefully and not swoop in with a dair(:(). Fsmash/utilt are the winners here.

Gimp the 1v1s, Try to gimp whoever you can after that but mostly the 1v2s and 1v3s will be grouping the CPUs to hit them all at once and hopefully gimping one if you can. Most characters can be spiked relatively easily so try it all out.

Oh yeah, hopefully you won't have to use a heart 'till the first 1v3 or last 1v2, but it doesn't have to be that way and if you think you're really in danger then use a heart. You'll probably go farther using it than not using it.
 

Zorrioh

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Thank you very much for the help, I will try some of those things you mentioned. I can't remember was gimp is though, I'm rusty on my Melee terminology.
 

Yoshistar64

Smash Journeyman
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I use Marth, go to the edge, and spam U-tilts and D-tilts. Or the occasional D-throw, because of his top notch edge-guarding, or an instant kill in a place like Mushroom Kingdom II.
 

Eternal Yoshi

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Good thing I saw this. I did this with 18 out of the 25 characters and I can help. Here is some general advice.

#1 Ration your hearts
Don't use a heart once every 2 matches. I reccommend saving it for the 1 vs. 3 matches and 1 for the Game & Watches so you can feasibly survive. For example, I recommend grabing the first heart after the end of the last 2 vs. 1 matches, the second one for the end of the 2nd 3 vs. 1 match, and the last one for the G&Ws.

#2 Monitor your damage
Avoid getting hit. If it means being repetitive, so be it. Note how much damage you take at the end of each match especially the early matches. Try to limit it so the later matches are feasible. For starters, make sure the single matches do not add up to over 40% damage. If it does, start over because that makes the 2 vs. 1 matches border on insane sometimes.

#3 Do NOT let them surround you
This is so important to remember. CPU's are dim witted, but that doesn't mean they will be lazy. They will pummel you in unorthodox combos if they surround you. This also means that your damage meter will notably increase. At one second you can have 30%. But if 3 CPU's surround you, they can pummel you to about 99% in only 7 seconds. Keep them on one side or a long distance away to avoid having this problem.

#4 Acknowledge their reflexes
The CPU's have superhuman reflexes. Scrap any combo involvong projectiles because they will deflect it. They will also dodge certain moves like the Bowser Bomb. You can use to your adantage though.

#5 Know the stage you will fight on next
You may not think you will need to know, but you do. To know which stage is coming up next, look at the top left side of the screen and look at whose characters face is at the top left. That determines where you battle next despite teams. Don't look at the images where the hearts are because they will trick you in the later matches.
Dr. Mario: MKII
Mario: Rainbow Cruise
Luigi: Mushroom Kingdom
Bowser: Yoshi's Island
Peach: Peach's Castle
Yoshi: Yoshi's Story
DK: Kongo Jungle
Falcon: Mute City
Ganondorf: Brinstar Depths
Falco: Venom
Fox: Corneria
Ness: Onett
IC: Icicle Mountain
Kirby: Green Greens
Samus: Brinsstar
Zelda: Hyrule Temple
Link: Great Bay
Young Link: Jungle Japes
Pichu: Fourside
Pikachu: Pokemon Stadium
Jigglypuff: Poke Floats
Mr. Game & Watch: Flat Zone
Marth: Fountain of Dreams
Roy: Final Destination
Now that you know where you will be fighting, you will be prepared and may be able to use the board to your advantage.

#6 Learn to DI effectively
DI is very important to your survival. You can DI to save yourself, escape from combos, and avoid traps from items. Remember that C Stick DI isn't permitted because you cannot use the C Stick here.

#7 Be cautious of items
The ratio here isn't pefect, so item attacks do more knockback than usual. You have to watch out for explosive carrier items. They are capable of low percentage kills here. :( This means you should not destroy carrier items. Instead, use you judgement on wether you should throw them at your enemy or jump and throw it on the ground below you. The CPU may shield it, but it can deplete it notably if the item explodes. Be sure to grab any Pokeball the appears unless you know it's a trap. Pokemon are also stronger here.
One more thing. Beware of slanted floors. When Barrels and Crates Appear here, they will break on anyone who collides with them until they stop. Items appear approximately every 15 seconds in a match, so count in your head when they will appear and you will be prepared.

#8 Out smart the AI
As is it said in various places around here, computers suck. They are flawed and there are many oppurtunities to make them SD and leave them vunerable. I don't have room to list them all, but here are a few.
In Rainbow Cruise, you can lure the CPU's to the top right part of the screen at the beginning if your character can jump high enough and can go around the opposition. After the CPUs use their midair jumps to catch you, return to the ship and they will die trying to reach the now unreachable platform you were on. Don't know what I'm talking about? Run to the right, Pause the game, and angle the camera to let you see the top right. This sometimes fails thogh. Positioning is viital to this trick, so you need to position yourself where the CPU will have to use their recovery means to catch you. Timing your reeturn is also imporant.
In Mushroom Kingdom, you may not have to fight Luigi at all. He may SD in many ways. He might use a fireball at the start of the match just before he falls into the pit and green missle his way to death. If you step backwards a few steps, he will use the Green Missle if he is high in the air. If it misfires, he dead, end of match. If he doesnt, you are in a position to strike and he won't attack until he lands. You can do a fully charged Bowser FSmash him or even Warlock Punch him.

I can help you with the Game & Watches, but I need you to name a charaacter or 2 that you are trying to do it with for this part of my advice to be effective. Over and out.
 

Juke

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just figure out how the AI works. They always grab when you shield and they don't do crap about you attacking from above.
 

The Star King

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Messages
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Eternal Yoshi, I'm trying to beat All-Star very hard with every character like I did with adventure and classic, but I'm usually screwed at the G&W match. The characters i DID beat i with are:
Yoshi
Falco
Fox
Kirby
Pichu
Pikachu
Roy

I can probably beat it with a few other characters I haven't tried that many. But can you give advice on how to beat the G&W match with other characters?

Ryuto all-star very hard vids:

Pichu: Part 1- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3x21xboy458
Part 2- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4iWpwHOE-48

Kirby: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTZeyZnbQn0

Roy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ihb2phIwOM0

Yoshi: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAgQYEBBFHo
 

Eternal Yoshi

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Gotcha. I'm here now.
Universal: Not all the Game & Watches pursue and fight. Some only fight when you go in their space. IF there is only 1 or 2 after you, it's best to focus your attacks on those two or one and take them down a little at a time rather than have an army pursue and pummel you.
Some Game & Watches DO NOT have superhuman reflexes.
Learn their patterns. It isn't hard to lure them above you.
If you notice the tools falling, stop fighting and relocate yourself under the house. The tools will KO the complacent G&W. Be ready to strike or sheild grab the offensive G&W to KO them or set them up for a tool KO. Trust me, it wrapped up many matches for me qquite nicely.
If you find yourself geting pummeled. Use your chharacter's quickest attack to escape(i.e., the shine) or roll out their way. Don't wavedash in this situation because you won't get the invincibility frames you need to escape.
Take note of the items that appear. The G&W won't always go after good items but use them efffectively. Don't touch hammers. They may seem powerful, but if the head breaks, you are in for it. Screw attack is a good item to use. When you jump with it, they get KO'd. Be sure to have a special move to use if there are some below you. Seek the help of Pokemon. Some of them are useless, but others like the Unown, can be a great help, so grab any Pokeball, but keep your plan going or sheild yourself under the Pokemon. Unless you are Marth and Roy, the fan is the best weapon here. Use the Fan's smash attack to KO G&Ws. As for other clobbering items, they are too slow so throw them at the G&Ws. Grab any cloaking device you see and DO NOT stand under the edge of the house. That's whene crates and barrels can roll on top of you and end your game.
Dr. Mario: Your Super Jump punch is a very lethal waeapon here. Stand under the G&Ws and spam it. Try not to miss, as that would be detrimental. If there are some below you or if you get flung a little bit above them, use you best judgement to decide wether to fair them or just move away. Not all of the Game & Watches fight. if there is only 1 bothering you, focus on that one and back throw him.
Mario: Basically the same as Doc. Be advised that your fair won't knock them as far.
Luigi: This is a little difficult with him. I find it better to move under and charge his up smash. Like I said, back throw when you have room. this should apply to a lot of characters. It's not perfect, but it is the most sucessfuul strat I developed for him.
Bowser: With his slow speed, you would think he would be out of luck, you are wrong. Bowser has a few tricks for the G&Ws. He can charge his up smash to KO them if he is below them, spam the whirling fortress to escape and dispatch those who are next to them, and Koopa Klaw them if there are not a lot after him. Don't Bowser Bomb them if you are above them. Just move away.
Peach: Your parasol is all you need. Seriously, practice your aim.
Falcon: A little tricky, but it can be done. It's not always going to KO them but ust your up smash if you are below them. IF they are running after you, use your Falcon punch, but try to hit them before their disjointed hitboxes hit you. Use the knee only if there are 3 or less in this situation.
Ganondorf: Your up smash can be used to KO a lot of them if they are above you. If they are beside you on the floor, use your Wizard's Foot. Doesn't always work, but it'll KO most of them. IF you are above them, dair them.
Ness: This is a little hard. Your bat can be of good use here and can KO G&Ws. You can also sweet spot your dash attack to KO G&Ws as well, and maybe fair a few to get them out of your space. HIs other attacks are of little or no use here, so good luck.
Ice Climbers: Spam you up and forward smashes. Don't forget to charge them up whenever possible.
Samus: Not too hard. Your down tilt can KO G&Ws who are in front of you. IF you use this, stand under a platform so the won't attack you before yopu can do so. Her down smash can do the same as well as well as hit those who are behind you. If you are getting pummeled, use the screw attack to escape.
Zelda: This won't be easy. Use your up tilt on those who are above you when you are on the ground. Use your nair when you are in the air and they are above you. You can use her forward smash or lightning kicks when they are beside you.
Sheik: Not any easier. use the tip of your up smash if they are above you to KO them. Use your bair if they are beside you. Try to lure them above you. You have 2 options here. If you need to transform, do so when there are no G&Ws after you under the house.
Jigglypuff: It may seem like rest is a good idea, but it's not. You will be at the mercy of the next wave of G&Ws. Use you up smash and forward smash how you see fit and use the tip of your bair to hit them when you are in the air.
Mr. Game & Watch: Stand under a platform and use your down tilt. use your nair if you are in the air, althogh it won't KO them.
Marth
Against the G&W team try to stay under platforms so they will drop down peacefully and not swoop in with a dair(:(). Fsmash/utilt are the winners here.
I quoted this for being correct. I want to add to use Counter when trying to escape instead of the Dolphin Slash. Counter is a few frames faster and will KO any G&W who gets hit by it.
Yes there are characters missing. I have not tested my theories with them yet, so I excluded them from this post.
 

lex.aut

Smash Apprentice
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Jan 3, 2007
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you just have to find the cpu glitches of every character on every map. that way you can easily make it to the 1vs3 matches without using 1 heart. from there on, just run away from the cpu, let him jump at you and hit him with up-smashes.
link is the only char with whom i can beat allstar-mode on very hard without using continues, because he's my main, but i would recommend yoshi or kirby if you know every character good enough.
 

Nintendude

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lol, why are you all making this so complicated.

Be Luigi, go to the edge, repeatedly drop down and up-B. This makes the CPU always air-dodge off the edge after a few tries. It was fixed in the PAL version though.

Then you can get to the GWs with 0% likely, and you can run around waiting for the good items to spawn. You might even be able to just up-smash from the top platform.
 

pika-power

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Feb 12, 2006
Messages
114
Nintendude, he can get to G&W with a heart container. Yours is a good strategy, but he still needs a way to beat Game and watch.
 

SW-1988

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it takes very long, but for the G&W's you can generally just go as far left as possible. The G&W's will stay in the middle and will be beaten by the flying tools...
 

Cort

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Uh, listen to Nintendude and SW1988. They know what they're talking about and the Luigi strategy is one of the only viable strategies for completing this task without extreme luck.

Lol @ extremely long drawn out posts that don't really help >_<
 

Eternal Yoshi

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it takes very long, but for the G&W's you can generally just go as far left as possible. The G&W's will stay in the middle and will be beaten by the flying tools...
I've tried that and it doesn't always work for me. A few of them DID pursue me even when as far left as possible, which is why I hardly use this strat.
 

Nintendude

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I've tried that and it doesn't always work for me. A few of them DID pursue me even when as far left as possible, which is why I hardly use this strat.
Well, just kill the ones that pursue you until you are left with passive ones. When you are being approached by a computer, just shield and spot-dodge when he tries to grab you. Then just grab and back-throw him. CPUs will always attempt a grab if you shield near them.
 

Eternal Yoshi

I've covered ban wars, you know
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Uh, listen to Nintendude and SW1988. They know what they're talking about and the Luigi strategy is one of the only viable strategies for completing this task without extreme luck.

Lol @ extremely long drawn out posts that don't really help >_<
To be honest, THERE IS NO PERFECT STRATEGY FOR THIS MODE.
The Luigi strat does not work for me after several attempts. Also, you will be out of luck if your harder fights occur on a stage with no viable edge to grab or no pit(i.e. Mute City, Onett, Brinstar Depths, Poke Floats).

THe reason I created the G&W strats is because my luck is terrible. The ratio of Offensive to Defensive varies. On average for me, 4 out of 5 G&W pursue me, making the wait to the left strat a bad idea for me. You must be luckier than me, or it may be because I play All-Star mode too much.

My CPU's anted up. My CPU Bowser can Bowser Bomb Cancel persistently, Marth has gotten more precise with tipping, Ganondorf occasionaly wavedashes, Samus can occasionally SWD to recover, Peach uses her vegetables more often
(and got 3 Bob-Ombs in a row), Fox short hops more frequently, and they don't fall for the Luigi strat.
To close: Due to the characters you fight being random except for the last match, you will need luck whether you like it or not.
 
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