Another reason to hate brawl

[kupo15]

I think I found out launch angles are not interesting as melee or why moves just act boring as hell.

i think that while you are in hitstun, brawl does not take into account the launch angle from that move when calc the launch angle of next hit. I found this out through my study of ganons dsmash while trying to fix it. Melee ganon dsmash, if I just hit with tthe back foot they always get sucked inwards like the first hit but at low percents if both hits connect, the second hit knocks out NOT in. But , the higher the dmg is the more you are sucked in.

This is what i mean. The first kick is a set kb so it sets up the second kick. The first hit doesn't change but the second hit does scale with damage and gets stronger. It seems as if melee takes the launch angle of both moves and makes a brand new angle. At 0% the first kick is stronger than the second so it uses more of that launch angle than the second hence why the second sends away. But at higher percents, the back kick is stronger than the first kick which is why it sends inwards. I even tested at 999%. The solo back kick and the combined kicks sent the SAME way. This means that the game must have thrown out the first kicks kb angle because the second kick was far stronger that you only got launch angle from the second hit.

Brawl does not do this. I set the back foot at an inward angle and at 0%, it still hit in. This MUST mean that brawl doesn't even take the old launch angle into account at ALL and only uses the newest angled hit. So instead of using more influence from the stronger hit during hitstun, the weaker hit will still over ride the stronger hit and will apply its launch angle only.

However, there is one weird thing where if you hit someone with pits arrows right after a strong attack by another player, they will just take damage and keep the same trajectory they are sent. So I'm not sure the exact circumstances this works. It might be just multi hit moves

Yet another reason to hate brawl. If we can make a code to fix this, brawl+ will be a LOT more interesting.

 

[shanus]

Yeah thats old news. The better part is that knockbacksin the SAME DIRECTION get entirely overwritten as well.

Thats why i had to make charizard fair tip have a huge KBG

 

[goodoldganon]

I really fail to see how this is a reason to hate Brawl and is instead nitpicking at the most mundane of details...

 

[kupo15]

Yeah thats old news. The better part is that knockbacksin the SAME DIRECTION get entirely overwritten as well.

Thats why i had to make charizard fair tip have a huge KBG

Are we going to fix it? I mean, that could make matches more interesting when your DI changes depending on the percent and things are not so precise for the attacker. Instead of it being, ok I KNOW this move will hit them in this direction and the damage will make them go about this far, it will be more like, "I am not as sure exactly where they will go because the kb is different every time until it caps at a certain percent...but I know it will generally be around here"
It would add more diversity I think

I really fail to see how this is a reason to hate Brawl and is instead nitpicking at the most mundane of details...

You would

 

[Alopex]

Generally, GoG, weak knockback overwritting strong knockback is bad news.

Exhibit A - Charizard Fair.

A more ideal mechanic would be if the weak knockback move causes a trajectory adjustment to the high knockback instead of always completely overwriting it.

This kind of thing is even more important in team battles, where two-on-ones have to constantly watch out for it.

 

[Dark Sonic]

Well, melee had a kind of lower boundary of some sort when it came to overidding knockback. If a move had very little knockback it wouldn't override the knockback of the other move. But medium knockback moves did it all the time. I saved people from rests just by fairing them in teams.

That's the kind of thing we need in brawl. A lower boundary for overriding knockback, and anything under that just adjusts the angle instead.

 

[kupo15]

The thing is, I am not sure if this happens during hitstun or just the move. I only had time to notice it with ganon's dsmash. Also, I don't think it should be one or the other such as the powerful one always overriding. It should be a scale, so like in ganon's dsmash, in melee, it went from extreme away gradually to 15 deg inside ganon. It didn't jump from outside in, the outside angle became less and less as the second hit got stronger with more damage. This is what we should do and I believe it is possible. If you take ganon's wizkick for example, even single hit moves does this.

If you wizkick at 0, the angle is definitely not 45 deg. But once you reach a certain point, it becomes 45 degs but it gets there gradually. So there is a formula to tell the game how much to take off from the final kb of a move depending on damage. If we can have the game keep track of more than one move and combine them into working together...bingo!

That's the kind of thing we need in brawl. A lower boundary for overriding knockback, and anything under that just adjusts the angle instead.

The game already has a threshold where it doesn't affect kb if the move is too weak (see: pits arrows) We just need moves that are above that to alter the angle. But once again, is this only when you are in hitstun? From your description, it would seem so

 

[Yeroc]

Actually, this happened in Melee too, in a way, but it was different. In HRC, with Peach and Sheik, you could get right up to the bag and bat throw up followed by a jab, and the bag wouldn't go hardly anywhere. For strong hits, obviously the previous momentum was accounted for, but not weak hits for some reason. Not sure if there's a way we can reliably tell how much different Brawl is or not.