Another Critique Thread

[The Good Doctor]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXPGgU9F268&feature=results_video&lr=1&ob=0
Any and all advice would be awesome

 

[gm jack]

First game - not many grabs until the very end. Being very platform happy let Fox get under you too much.

Second game - a lot of full hops seemed to give the fox the ability to get under you (again). Fox has lots of priority above him, while you have very little below you. Admitedly, Kels really wasn't punishing it, but I'm not sure why. If there is a reason you are doing it, I'd like to know.

Third game - there were quite a few times I felt a Nair OoS would have done well to mix it up with the rolls out of shield (which you did a bit towards the end but there were also times where you could have done more, such as WD OoS, than roll). While you seemed to have a good knowledge of the match up, your punishments just didn't seem strong enough to keep up with Falco's, and so despite a decent neutral game, you didn't convert enough times.

 

[The Good Doctor]

I full hop a lot for a weird reason. People tend to approach me more, and as Sheik I want them to do all the approaching.

 

[gm jack]

But surely, you want to make them approach when you are actually quite safe, as opposed to putting yourself is an actually bad spot.

 

[Jolteon]

you need to move more on the ground, you jump too much and also attack in that situation when it's bad (i.e. poorly spaced bairs getting cc'd)

 

[Hopland]

Perhaps more comment than advice, but good tech chasing and use of the upper fair hitboxes. I'm definitely going to steal the "wavedash where they DI" bit. Usually I just "dashdance until I figure out wtf is happening".

I've taken to throwing needles to clear the edge when I'm offstage/high and they are trying to edgeguard. It tends to throw people off if it hits, but I dunno if it's as useful when you're at higher levels.

 

[gm jack]

Good players tend to just stand up to get invincibility, then WD back to the ledge before you get there. It's a good trick to know, but isn't reliable for even clearing the ledge properly.

 

[Hopland]

I guess that's true. I figure, if you have the opportunity, go for it. Especially with the proximity to the edge, people are more likely to suicide trying to WD back, or get hit with the needle, or perhaps even forget that they're over 100% and do the slow getup.

So maybe it should be one of those things you throw out just to test every once in a while.

 

[bubbaking]

I guess that's true. I figure, if you have the opportunity, go for it. Especially with the proximity to the edge, people are more likely to suicide trying to WD back, or get hit with the needle, or perhaps even forget that they're over 100% and do the slow getup.

So maybe it should be one of those things you throw out just to test every once in a while.

If they are likely to suicide when WDing back, then they probably weren't that good in the first place. I just don't like the needles that much cuz they go at a somewhat specific angle which requires good, high DI as a prerequisite, it can be avoided/recovered from fairly easily, and Sheik falls quite a bit while throwing the needles, even if it's just one. Also, opponents can avoid the needles by quickly refreshing their invincibility.

Edit: Personally, I like reverse needle cancelled bairs and fairs much more for trying to keep the ledge clear.

 

[stelzig]

I just throw the needle whenever I see the opponent being open to it. Pretty much like hitting them with anything else while recovering. Just hitting them when they are sleeping (hanging on the edge) or make a mistake.

At least I don't remember ever missing with my needle(s) when I do throw it.

 

[Hopland]

If they are likely to suicide when WDing back, then they probably weren't that good in the first place. I just don't like the needles that much cuz they go at a somewhat specific angle which requires good, high DI as a prerequisite, it can be avoided/recovered from fairly easily, and Sheik falls quite a bit while throwing the needles, even if it's just one. Also, opponents can avoid the needles by quickly refreshing their invincibility.

Edit: Personally, I like reverse needle cancelled bairs and fairs much more for trying to keep the ledge clear.

I find that (in my limited experience) if you DI high and are coming in, they tend to wait a fair distance from the edge while you're up, so if you needle them right when they're WDing, you'll stop them closer to the edge. From there, if they're holding the same angle down-left/right, then they will *sometimes* airdodge off or be confused for a long enough time for you to grab the edge.
I'm looking at the game on Yoshi's, and if you're high up and going for the ledge anyway, might as well throw a few needles to rack up some damage or mess with them.

I prefer it because most people aren't expecting it, and I like to abuse that downward projectile angle (SNIPE). Also, still working on the reverse needle cancels, so I can't talk too much about their relative effectiveness (aside from my frequent SDing while trying). I feel like the reverse would work best if you recover from below the stage?

OH, as more of a commentary on general Sheik play, more uptilts would be cool to juggle opponents into position.

 

[bubbaking]

Well, it's certainly true that Yoshi's slopes at the ends of the stage can sometimes cause problems with WDing off to grab the ledge, but this probably shouldn't be much of an issue on other stages. About RNC's (Reverse Needle Cancels), they're pretty good if you want to bring out a bair while trying to recover. It can be alright if you're above the stage, as well, especially if you're just trying to land/DJ onto the stage with bair.

 

[The Good Doctor]

A match from this weekend
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPjoGrXXd90&feature=youtu.be
Again, any advice would be awesome

 

[joejoe22802]

Hey man so on FD you can't just stand neutrally and spam backjump fairs and full hop needle charges, If a fox is moving well enough he can easily punish this. It just makes you a one trick thing meaning fox has only one thing to over come. You are also controlling almost no space by doing this since it is purely defense and does not push
- Other options,
DD
Run up WD Back
Push and control space with Full hop, short hop, double jump Back Airs.

Also you barely follow through after a slap. gotta go for some kind of dash attack or grab.
That being said you need to grab more.

Around 2:20 you get back from the ledge and then fox is pressuring you to the ledge again cover ground and air options. So you move back onto the edge. I think you could have easily just gone through him or shielded and the WD left. It cost you that stock.

2:50 this edge guard was pretty sloppy once he was on the edge. You spaced really far and it seems like the only think you could have covered was an illusion. Probably play it slightly closer and figure out how to cover more.

Overall impression first match. I think you should learn to play closer. not saying you always should but its valuable at certain parts of matches. sheik has many fast/long last moves that put characters in awkward shield positions. Back air, tilts, jabs which will ultimately lead to punishes out of shields. Right now you mainly punish approaches and then kinda follow up.

Ok in the second match you do a bunch of random full hop slaps. But sheiks horizontal movement is terrible in the air and she's floaty so its so easy for fox to just hit you with his quick jump.

Also you try to shield grab like 7 times when you're at the edge. It's pretty obvious and you get punished a lot.

hope this helps.

 

[Hopland]

/regression
The needle thing was bugging me because I knew it was from somewhere.
PPU vs. Vanz at the link, when Vanz gets knocked off, needles PPU when he tries to WD back to not so much clear the ledge as stop the edgehog.
http://youtu.be/RMsu6O87KDw?t=12m45s

 

[KirbyKaze]

The Good Doctor vs Chexr - FD 1

0:15 - After you hit a fair like that, it's okay to put pressure on him with more fairs or go for grabs, etc. Low fair --> grab requires some finesse by the space animal to get out of and if they can do it, you can counter their covers by outspacing them. He was also at the correct percent to f-tilt, so that was an option.

0:20 - How come you guessed with a down smash here?

In general - why are you full jumping so much?

0:50 - Those were really good. See how you swing as he entered your space and committed to an action that you could swing at him for? That's the ideal for Sheik's fair. You jump back and sort of watch for them entering your space with a punishable thing and then swing if they do something. If not, you just move around and go about your business.

0:54 - I'm not sure if this is you being anxious and trying to call a jump or if you messed up a SH fair to initiate pressure.

0:57 - You ledgehopped a fair, missed, and then went into an immediate shield grab on a spaced bair (which also obviously missed). Who is attacking who? You followed up with another ledgehop fair, that he dash dance grabbed.

You, my friend, are not playing Sheik right now ;(

This guy's edge game seems kind of meh so far so you pressure him once you reverse the situation somehow (I think it's mostly because you had a percent advantage and he didn't go for the up air [or follow up on his bair with any real pressure]). Then you space bair for a bit and kill him with another SH back fair (it's good you outspaced the dair, although be careful about doing that sort of thing against Foxes near the edge; a lot of his options involve invulnerable wavedashes and such that make thing sort of pressure play very, very dangerous... I recommend more stuff revolving around WD back; you can still f-tilt on the bad ledgehopped aerials but you can also block, WD back, crouch, or roll away if the comes at with an invulnerable waveland, or randomly invincible illusions at you, etc).

1:16 - Not sure why you threw the needles at the ground. You didn't return to that area to try and bait a bad SHFFL. You just backed up further. I don't really like using the full set for stuff like that, since it's so powerful as a grab setup or just for raw damage but if you're gonna do stuff like that, then at least use it ;-)

You really don't need to full jump so much. A lot of these covers for high approaches are fine as up tilts and SH fairs (yes, fair can counter high approaches if you time the swing as they come in and don't just swing - this requires watching your opponent or the space around you though [rather than your character]).

1:21 - This is kind of an example of why I felt throwing the needles was a waste. If you managed to link those needles into literally anything then this kind of up air starts a combo. You could have actually just SHed this and it probably would have worked better, btw.

1:23 - Not sure why you're shield grabbing here.

1:26 - This is like the 6th time I think I've seen you come down with an attack. Pay attention to how he's positioning his dash dance and watch how you attack in bad positions (I've time-stamped a few). He's clearly waiting for you to swing; you don't have to swing. When they do behaviours like this, FF WL away from them. Or something. FD is kind of lame because getting down from the top tiers is severely limited (no platform waveland, edgecancel, etc) but you have reasonable range on her so you're often good for a 50/50 in a lot of these situations.

As a side note, it's not a sin to just back up and grab the edge if you can't afford a waveland. Grabbing the edge is preferrable to being grabbed by Fox. Obviously this has other risks, but if you see them getting close enough to swing at you falling to the edge you can swing back. Force him to break his patterns.

To recap: You lost this stock because you shield grabbed in a panic (1) and swung coming down (2). Panic attacks are bad. Everyone does them, but they are still bad.

1:47 - Do something better than down smash after landing a clean, non-DIed up smash. I recommend SHFFL dair, uair, and/or up tilt. SH uair going forward covers DI away and leads to such good follows at lower percents.

1:48 - I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish with this down smash (well, I know why you did it, but the decision doesn't stand up to logical processes). If he continues to shield, you will get punished 100%. If he jumps (which he did) then you will get punished 100%. The only way this can work is if he tries to roll or WD into you, but he's already shown that he's a pretty patient player. Most of his hits are on bad swings by you (such is Fox).

1:54 - I think you would benefit a lot from paying attention to what the opponent is doing when you're moving towards him. You run up to him and he blocks. But you've already committed yourself to the down smash. Don't treat dash cancel > down smash as a single action. You can respond to the big bubble and change that d-smash into a dash grab. Or dash cancel > dash grab / JC grab (if you want). Respond to your opponent's behavior. If that's too much, then be safer.

1:58 - Do you do your aerials with A?

I think you should work on your tech chasing timing. I think you could improve your consistency by going for easier things sometimes. WDing with their DI (when they DI away) makes down smashing the tech stand really easy and it's not hard to learn at all. You just need to learn how to WD really fast out fo the d-throw. You could also learn to walk forward a bit and max-range your grab. Or f-tilt. People really underrate f-tilt.

I suggest these things because you're guessing an awful lot on these tech chases and you can hit a lot of these with decent timing. Sheik's moves are fast and big. Good for tech chasing.

I dunno. People get upset when I say "practice your tech chasing by paying attention to vulnerabilities in the tech animations" and "move faster out of your grabs so you can position yourself better to do the follow ups more easily" but it cuts down heavily on the guesswork and you'll get way better for it.

1:59 - You probably could have nair'd him here instead of the fair.

2:09 - Nice dash underneath his nair approach. That was good.

2:11 - Had you timed the grab better, you could have linked the needles into that and done a punish. Nice attempt though.

The next sequence looks like a big mess so I'm not touching it.

2:25ish - You actually could have slapped (or up aired) him for a bunch of these bairs. If you see them missing moves like that, you can just forgo the stall and hit their lag to make them back off. Obviously doesn't work vs better spacing, but he was way too close.

2:42 - This is solid play. The way you went about getting your f-tilt was good. Sucks you messed up the follow but whatever.

Kind of sloppy on the ledge pressure thing but his edge habits are kind of meh defensively. Not gonna comment on it aside from what I said earlier because no point.

3:17 - It's dangerous to full jump near the edge. You could have very feasibly died for that, had he followed up and grabbed the edge properly.

3:33 - Not a bad effort, but he picked a counter to it. I think you could have been a bit tighter with your movement but that style of nair is generally good vs WD back and I have trouble with it myself. Only remedy that's really worked so far is SH fair, various forms of bair, and up tilt.

3:45 - More down smashing of the shield. Worked out because the Fox failed but... that's a really risky play for such a low reward (you're at shine > up smash KO percent).

3:55 - You once again land the up smash. And he doesn't DI it. At this point you can literally do anything you want to him. You name it, it can be hit. I don't know why you naired. Dair autocombos to dash attack in this position if he DIs away. You had a huge punish opportunity (again). Shoot higher.

4:00 - I'm kind of sad the game ended this way.

I think you had some good moments but you have a lot of areas that could improve.

tl;dr version:

1) Learning how to control your impulse to attack so you can work on attacking at opportune moments, when the opponent commits or presents a similar vulnerability (you're attacking a Fox who has all his options & hasn't committed). This will involve you also requiring to learn how to cross up opponents with dashes and such (which you do a few times) so you don't get trapped at the edge all the time if you back up too much.

2) Work out the kinks in your FJ game. You're using a lot of time you could be doing more productive things on FJs. I feel it controls an area that this opponent is not going into.

3) Move selection in combos and general combo stuff. You need to punish harder.

4) I think you used the same gimp attempt like 4 times or something. Some directional throw > needle. I think you need to think about what exactly you're covering. Not saying the needles can't work, but I think you only hit follow on the b-throw.

5) Combo escape habits need a lot of work. And general habits when you're pressured. Or want to hit them. This is kind of like point 1 but it has more to do with when you're at a disadvantage. It looks like you panic a lot or don't know what kind of gaps you're looking for.

Remember that Sheik is strongest when the opponent is to the side, to the side and slightly above, or to the side and slightly below. Her best attacks in the neutral are f-tilt, bair, and fair. Her movement should revolve around keeping her positioned so those moves do work. Against Fox, your good moves against his high stuff are uair, fair, and up tilt (in no particular order).

Keep that in mind when you're full jumping. Think about what it's accomplishing. It can be used to accomplish that sort of positioning goal, but her SH is already high.

 

[The Good Doctor]

I tend to panic a lot and try to shield grab. That's a habit I just can't seem to get out of. Thanks a lot for your advice guys.