Andross for Brawl! Starfox needs a cool enemy

[kaid]

I'll say it again. Andross is Cranky Kong.

 

[Bowserlick]

No. He is actually Andross.

 

[yoshiherder]

Andross?! *Chuckles* If we need the bad guy, we'll add Wolf. Andross:
1) Is far too large.
2) Is unpopular
3) Cannot grab, run, etc.
4) Is essentially a giant head. :\

 

[Vasilicus]

Last time I checked Andross was a huge floating head/brain/robot thing about 100 times bigger than Arwings which are about 5 times bigger than Fox.

I know you say "Yeah but Bowser and Kirby" but come on.,...

 

[The Basement Dweller]

See the Wolf thread it is so much better Andross please. Yeah right.

 

[zombie7775]

Wolf > Andross enough said.

 

[yoshiherder]

Star Wolf is a bore. All the posted movelists are still too similar to Fox and Falco. Do we really need three characters with moves that look the same?

Oh ho ho, NO. Check these out.

"Wolf for Brawl... I will edit in pics soon, and I have a petition running, and am gathering names.
Petition: http://www.petitiononline.com/225963/petition.html (Does not include most of my support)
Nsider, full O'Donnell Fortress: http://forums.nintendo.com/nintendo/...cending&page=1

Table of Contents

1) A barebones description

2) Movesets

3) "Wolf is NOT a Fox clone" essay

4) A Tribute to the Wolf... a pic gallery.

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1)

Wolf is a "Quasi-evil" character. He seems dark at first glance, but there is more there. Him saving Fox and helping the team in SFA gave his personality more ... "dynamicness". Wolf keeps only a few close friends, does not care what the critics say, and is willing to do anything for what he believes in. "Anything" can be limited; I've not seen him on a killing rampage yet. People say he's an evil mercenary, murderer, etc. Where'd you get that from? Show me. No example has ever been provided that he does those things. Wolf is confident, clever, a good leader, and protective of the few he's close to. His personality almost exactly matches mine (I'm not quite an evil mercenary, or w/e). Also, I've identified w/ this personality again. Another character that finds fraternity w/ Wolf in terms of personality is Magneto. For that, I'm also enthralled with him. Wolf would not be anything like a Fox clone, as Star Fox Assualt opened up many Wolf possibilities for moves. Wolf would add to both the Star Fox Characters, and to the Villains(although I don't consider him a villain). SSBM was VERY short on both of those categories. Wolf is the ideal addition for Star Fox, he deserves a spot.


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2a) Wolf O'Donnell - By YoshiRancher.

Stats:

Movement Speed: ****(A little slower than Marth)
Attack Speed: ****( A little slower than Falco)
Weight: ***(? Not sure. W/ armor and equipment, slightly heavier than Mario, but lighter than Link.)
Jumping: ***(~60-70% height of highest jumper)
Damage Resistance: Slight physical. He is wearing armor, and if the armor is going to slow him down, there should be a reason for wearing it.
Addendum: I will add to this later.(extra notes)
Damage: ***.5 (3.5) (Wolf is meant to be a fair amount stronger than Fox)

Advantage: Fair speed, high speed attacks, good traction, almost a fastfaller.
Disadvantage: Good traction and almost a fastfaller can be disadvantages.

A - Punch.
A,A,A - Punch, elbow, knee.
Right A - Elbow
Running A - Slide tackle.

Smash A: Punch/elbow alternation.
Smash Right - Heavy Kick.
Smash Up - Bazooka bludgeon.(Sounds stupid, but can you imagine getting beaten by a bazooka? Ouch)
Alt Smash up: Flip. Does a back flip. First hit is the first foot, which stuns and knocks up slightly. The second foot does less of both than the first, and the tail is the heavy blow, w/ significant knockback. A three-hit combo. Think of Link's if you can't picture it.
Smash Down - Tail swipe(multiple spins depending on charge).


Ground:
Jump - Standard.
Double jump - Front tuck or backflip, depending on which way he's headed.
A - Punch
Forward A - elbow
Back A - tail bludgeon
Up A - Kick up.(Not like Fox's, does a flip in place to hit w/ both feet)
Down A - Tail trip. (Like Yoshi's, but not as powerful.)
B - Slug thrower. Charge move. More bullets as charge increases. If the max charge(7 secs) is reached, Wolf's hands will glow until you unleash it. The machinegun w/ be a gattling gun when fully charged, which means energized bullets. (standard do 1% per hit, energized... 3%?) Energized also have a much more significant knockback.
Up B - Missile launcher. Similair to PK thunder, you can control the trajectory. Strike yourself w/ the missile to become a flaming projectile. You can detonate the missle w/ B. The missile explodes on contact, or on attempt to block/reflect.
Alt Up B - Jet pack. Wolf himself becomes a projectile, and has temporary movement freedom. The flames are severely devastating.
Down B - Trickery. This is one of my best. Wolf counters a hit for 1.5 times the damage. The target, if close enough, is stunned(As if their shield was broken) for a time based on how far Wolf would have been sent flying by the countered blow. Stun time cannot exceed 6 seconds, and the stunned recovers upon being struck. The move blocks projectiles, but does not reflect them. Wolf stays in the countering position for ~1.5 seconds, after which there is a ~.5 sec lag time. If grabbed while in countering mode, the grab is broken and both characters slightly knocked back. Neither takes damage nor is stunned. Can be used on recovering(getting back to stage) characters. Will interrupt the recovery and knock downward at a medium rate, depending on damage. The target can still use another recovery move. Also, recovery grabs are broken, and the grabber is knocked down at twice the normal rate.
Alt Down B: Pulse Mine. Wolf sets a mine. Any character walking near it is stunned by the pulse, and then nailed by the explosion. Wolf cannot place more than 3 mines at any time. If he attempts another, there is an 85% chance of him successfully placing it, but the oldest of the 4 current mines despawns, and there is a 15% chance of Wolf bending over/crouching to place the mine, realizing he doesn't have one, and looking silly. This will cause about 1.5 secs of vulnerability.
Smash B - Homing Launcher. Just holding the control stick sends a homing shell after the nearest opponent. A smash to the control stick sends a powerful non-guided shell.
Alt side B - Grenade. Aimed like Yoshi's egg. Explodes on contact w/ character, or rolls along ground if no contact is achieved. Can be detonated w/ B. Cannot be picked up, and does not cook.
Aerials:
Neutral: Standard kick. Like Link's.
Back air: Tail Strike(Like Mewtwo's, but stronger.)
Alt Back air: Double back kick.
Foward air: Kicks in an arc foward, then hits w/ tail as second strike while spinning... Similair to Link's, but not as strong and different knockback.
Down air: Stomp(spike).
Up air: Spin kick. Does a flip. Feet and tail will have damaging effect.

Throw
Grab - Just reaches out and grabs... medium-long range. Can grab someone behind using tail(if in range.) Wolf will automatically grab a person behind if grab is used and no ppl are in front.
A - Knee to guts or elbow to face... 3% dmg.
Right - Tosses up a little, catches on knee w/ breaking force, smacks off w/ elbow and kicks foward.
Up - Tosses straight up, then nails w/ a zooker shell. Target is stunned until AFTER the shell hits, no reflecting/blocks/evading
Back - Tosses them over him, stuns w/ a tail thwack, then gives them a hefty kick to the rear.
Down - Shoves grabee into ground face down, and somersaults across his/her back, starting at the head and going all the way down, crushing the spine. Wolf then slides the person away w/ his tail to avoid recovery hits.

Dodge:
Air: Like the sidestep, but in air.
Sidestep - Creates 4-5 Wolves, but all are wraith-like and intangible. The real, colored Wolf is not among them, and comes back after the dodge.
Roll - Illusionary. Disappears, and can string up to 3 rolls(Slides, actually) in a row w/o having to reappear.

Recovery:
From fall into defensive - Handspring or roll, depending on DI.
Attack from hanging - Wolf tornado. Like Fox's dair, only w/ more knockback and horizontal.
Attack from lying face down - Does a flip, clearing legs over head, and damaging/knocking back anyone hit by legs. Does a tail hit after returning to a standing position to clear any "Clever" opportunists.
Attack from lying face up - Propeller kick.(Like CF)
Ground to Roll - Illusionary slide/ roll to standing.

Kirby Outfit - Grey ears, one violet eye, and the cyborg eye. Maybe the unruly center patch of white b/w ears?

Arena- Sargasso Hideout. Moving elevators, machinegun turrets, wandering robots, and henchmen.

Taunt - 1) Leans on knee opposite of direction originally facing and says" I'll take care of everything."
2) Wags finger warningly...and says "Don't mess w/ me."
3) After dealing damage, says "What's the matter? You done already?".

Shield - Standard, but violet(Like his eye)

Symbol - Probably the StarFox emblem. In the next SSB, more SW ppl should be added, and SW will have its own emblem. I'm well aware that Wolf isn't a part of SF, but I'm not going to give him his very own symbol when there are (hopefully) 3 others w/ the SF emblem.

Claps - Crosses arms and is turned away. Does not applaud.
Victory pose 1 - Dual machine gun... fires in a frenzy. "Victory is MINE!"
Victory pose 2 - Evil chuckle while tossing a grenade b/w hands
Victory pose 3 - Hands on hips or crosses arms and says "Ha, is that all you got?"

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2b) Here’s Giftednsoccer’s move set Wolf. His A- attacks are similar but I put a lot of emphasis on his special and grab attacks

WOLF MOVESET:

Size ***
Weight **
Power ****
Speed ****
Jump ****


A BUTTONS ATTACKS:

A Button - Punch right

A Button (second)- punch left

A (while dashing)- Knockback

Left or Right + A- Wolfen Kick

Up + A- Flip Kick

Down + A- Wolf Tail

Smash Left or Right + A- Wolfen Uppercut

Smash Up+ A - Flip Kick

Smash Down+ A- Sweep Kick

A Button (in air)- Flying Punch

Forward+ A (in air)- Falling Kick

Backward+ A (in air)- Back kick

Up+ A (in air)- Wolfen Flip

Down+ A (in air)- Drill Kick



GRAB ATTACKS:


Z or (R + A)- Grab

A or Z (while holding)- Punch

Forward (while holding)- Rapid Fire- Opponent is thrown forward and hit with a burst of blaster shots.

Backward (while holding)- Bombing- Opponent is thrown backwards and explodes in air

Up (while holding)- Anti-Aircraft- Opponent is thrown up and met with a rocket

Down (while holding)- Hit and Run- Slams the target down and dashes to the side only to detonate a bomb planted on the target


B/SPECIAL ATTACKS:



B- Blind Fire- Slides back, throws a smoke-screen forward, and follows through with quick shots from his blaster (not able to chain like Fox and Falco's blaster but smoke screen has a disabling effect )

Left or Right + B- Rocket Launcher- Homes in on targets faster than Samus's but does less damage

Up + B- Arial Alliance- Cuts to a very quick animation of a plane swooping down, catching wolf and carrying him a short distance in the direction designated.

Down + B- Sniper Shot- Temporarily braces wolf to the ground (until button is released or until Wolf receives 20% damage.) During this time Wolf is granted the power to lock onto any target not obstructed by an obstacle. Crosshairs lock around a target to signify lock on. Crosshairs can be toggled between opponents with the C-stick. Wolf is allowed to continue firing until he is moved from the location. Attack does light to medium damage depending on how close the target is hit.

Ultimate Attack- Allied Assault- Signals Leon and Panther who appear in their Wolfens and move across the arena in opposite directions showering the arena with laser fire.

Guilwolf proposed this set on another thread:
"I really don't care WHAT moves he has as long as they arn't a Fox/Falcon rip-off. This is the first time Wolf himself may ever be playable, let along have MOVES.. he should at least do different things. I think he should fight with both a Blaster and some sort of energy weapon.. a dagger or energy sword.. ontop of that I think I'd like his moves to focus more on physical contact rather than long distance/stealthy moves like Fox and Falcon.. so maybe alot of combo kicks and punches.. moves that, when excuted, will actually cause the oponint to be knocked into the air and have Wolf auto leap up to finish the move by kicking them back down to the ground.. something like that.



Wolf O'Donnel
Medium Weight/Speed
Double Jump

Standard Moves:
A - Wolf Punch (Stand Punch, rapid tapping will allow rapid punching)
B - Blaster (Like Falcon's, causes the victim to flinch, hold it down to charge it for a stronger blast. Slash with his Energy Dagger.)
L/R - Energy Shield that will focus only in the direction that Wolf is facing plus above him. It will last much longer than the standard shield and protect against stronger attacks but leaves his back completely open for attacks.
L/R - Standard Grab

Special Moves:
B + Left/Right - Wolf Charge. (Doubles Wolf's speed and will let him Auto-attack anyone he rushes past with his claws or fists.)
B + Up - Wolf Leap. (A strong leap attack that works alot like his Wolf Charge. He'll auto-attack anyone he passes. This allows him perform a single jump that equals two normal jumps.)
B + Down - Weapon Switch. (Causes Wolf to exchange his blaster for a Energy Dagger that can shock another character when touched with it.)

Smash Attacks:
A + Left/Right - Wolf Rage. (Causes Wolf to go into a frenzy and attack the nearest foe. He'll start by knocking them into the air, then leaping up and kicking them back down into the ground in extremely rapid succession. Deals more damage the closer the foe is to Wolf when the attack is used.)
A + Up - Sneak Attack. (Wolf uses either his Dagger or Blaster to unleash several above head attacks in quick succession. Blaster will attack enemies farther above him but do less damage, where-as the Energy Dagger will attack enemies who are almost directly ontop of him but deals out more damage)
A + Down - Melee Storm. (Causes Wolf to stand in spot and attack in a feral rage with both fist and feet. Anyone nearby can be hit. The attack is strong, but leaves wolf standing in place for a second or so)"

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2c) This moveset is by GanonFanboy:
"Aha, late night motivation after exam studying has lead to... WOLF! I've taken a big liberty here, since it's unclear as to Star Wolf's fate after the whole Aparoid affair, I've decided that he's alive but he's got a nifty cybernetic claw (henceforth the claw used in electrified claw or cyborg claw moves) and a cyborg eye that can shoot a laserbeam.

Stats:

Movement Speed: Average
Attack Speed: Average-fast
Weight: Medium
Jumping: Average-good
Damage Resistance: Average
Addendum:
Damage: Average-high

Advantage: Close combat against tanks, all-around duels, medium-close distance combat, preventing running away
Disadvantage: Speedier fighters, distance fighters, huge melees,

A - Slash with claw
A,A,A - Slash, slash, kick
Right A - Slashes with electrified claw
Running A - Spinning slash
Up A - Stabs upward with electrified claw
Down A - Stomps down hard with boot
Back A - Spins and swipes with electrified claw

Smash A:
Smash Right - Charged electrified slash
Smash Up - Charged electrified stab upwards
Smash Down - Charged stomp

B - Wolf charges his electrified claw (short charge time) and then releases a short-ranged beam of energy
Up B - Jetpack boosts upwards
Down B - Wolf pulls one out one of three weapons
- Firebomb grenade (Throws like Link’s bomb, bigger radius but weaker)
- Bio-pistol (Three shots then dissapears, if shot the enemy's controls are scrambled. Short range, slow rate of fire)
- Gravity Bomb (Throw like a projectile, sticks to a surface and draws enemies towards it)
Smash B - Wolf gets a small boost from jetpack, rushes forward and deliver a powerful blow with the electrified claw

Midair:
Jump - Jumps
Double jump - Jumps again
Dodge - Leans to the side
A - Slashes with electrified claw
Back A - Kicks back
Up A - Overhead kick
Down A - Kick downwards
B - N/A
Up B - Jetpack boosts upwards
Down B - Pulls out one of three weapons...

Throw
Grab - Grabs with cyborg claw
A - Shocks
Right - Shocks and then blasts with laser from cyborg eye
Up - Throws upwards
Back - Tosses backwards, turns around, leaps onto the enemy and slashes with electrified claw
Down - Throws into the ground

Dodge:
Sidestep - Leans to the side
Roll - Rolls

Recovery:
From fall into defensive - Spins and lands on feet
Attack from hanging - Flips up to the platform with a sweeping kick
Attack from lying down - Launches *very* short range laser from eye as he gets up (AoE)
Ground to Roll - Leaps

Kirby Outfit - Kirby gets a cyborg eye and arm, as well as some silver fur

Arena - Andross. Located in the center of venom, the arena is a series of many floating debris such as rocks, destroyed ships and hunks of metal. Every now and then Andross and his hands will appear. His hands become platforms, but beware for they may close up on you. Andross might also stir up the debris or spit some random junk at the characters.

Taunt - Howls

Shield - Standard force field

Symbol - Star Fox symbol???

Claps - Yes



I hope he's different enough from Fox, that was my main goal here "

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3)
Wolf O'Donnell is NOT a Fox clone.- A rant essay by YoshiRancher

I have shown movesets and evidence MANY times, always being in the right and proving that Wolf has enormous potential to be far more than a Fox clone. Still, I get the SAME argument, every time. "Wolf would be a Fox clone." My reasoning is ignored, as are my movesets. Therefore, I have decided to make a special essay, which will also be featured in my 2 favorite macros.

Let's start w/ the basics, shall we? Species: Wolf is well, a wolf, whose anatomy is more similar to that of the domesticated dog. Fox is also HIS namesake, whose anatomy is more similar to a cat, or a dog/cat hybrid.(I still say cat more than dog). There is a fundamental difference. The species. Think about this... There is ONE main species in Melee: Humans. Look at how diverse they are. We have dark magic freaks to bomb-happy elf-wannabes to crazy samurais w/ flaming swords to bounty hunters in power suits to plumbers tossing fire to ladies floating w/ a dress and gardening. Now tell me, if ONE species can do SO much and be SO different, surely TWO DIFFERENT species can be at LEAST that diverse? Heck, the only thing denied to Wolf that is found in SSBM is magic, essentially. He actually wields an energy dagger, as well.

Next, some physical differences. Wolf is 6'1'', while Fox is 5'8''. Even height can make a difference. Tall characters probably won't use the same kind of sweeps as shorter ones. Wolf weighs 165 pounds, while Fox is only 140. Weight is also a factor. This can affect fall speed, and traction, both of which, as you know, are quite the factor as far as tiers are concerned.

Wolf is possessed of a cyborg eye. To my knowledge, the eye may have enhancements over just optical funtion. Infrared or X-ray are possibilities, which could also factor into Wolf's abilities. Wolf wears an armored jerkin, while Fox wears a jumpsuit, or his flight jacket. The armor is another key difference, as Wolf might be slower, but have damage resistances.

Next, personalities. As you probably know, Wolf is a darker sort... and his life is probably the reason, as I explain later. Fox is a mercenary, but he's, of course, the hero, and of a lighter alignment. Wolf uses trickery, cunning, illusions, relentlessness and brutality in his dialogue, and in his fights. Fox mainly relies on his speed, as his nature doesn't support trickery. Wolf, although his true species should not be, is far more clever than Fox. This is another major difference, which also factors into movesets.

I'll go to a new topic: Other clones. I get these arguments often. So, let me say the following. Ganondorf is the King of Darkness, and wields the Triforce of Power. Using dark magic, levitation, and even anatomatical transmuting, Ganondorf is a power to be feared and reckoned with. Captain Falcon is a bounty hunter who drives a hovercraft. His moves are based on his bounty hunting and fire. He is muscular, and quick, while Ganondorf is slow. They share almost nothing. Clone material? Far from it. But look how they ended up. As clones. You can't be certain where the clones will occur, now can you?

Now think about Mario and Luigi. Twins, and born only minutes from each other. Raised by the same parents the same way. Both are fire-tossing plumbers with an odd obsession for mushrooms. The are brothers, and far closer to identical. Clone material? Yes. Clones? No. Wow, once again I've proven that clones' placement is not certain.

Another example is found w/ Kirby and Jigglypuff. Both are pink puff balls, both are about the same height and weight, etc. Yet somehow they ended up w/ ENTIRELY different movesets. I rest my case.

Another rather stupid argument I get is "Wolf isn't major, he doesn't even have a backstory." You don't know how wrong you are. With help from his games and the veterans of the SF board, I have determined the following, so shut up and read.

Wolf was raised in a fairly happy environment, and lived on Corneria. He actually attended the same Cornerian Academy as Fox. They were BEST FRIENDS, capiche? From what we can tell, Fox made a BIG mistake, which cost Wolf his eye, and much of his possessions other than the eye. Wolf was furious, and couldn't believe Fox would do such a thing. In the war Andross currently waged, it appears that both Fox's and Wolf's parents perished. In Androsses' next assault, Wolf joined up to support himself, and his friend, Leon, who may have also attended the Academy. Pigma was hired, and Andrew assigned by Andross. After his dogfight with Fox, Wolf realized that he could not bring himself to kill his one-time friend, and vowed to watch out for him instead. Now, getting over a vendetta, forgiving, and especially vowing protection takes IMMENSE inner strength, and I doubt that I could do the same. In SFA, Fox attacked Wolf's home base in an ill-advised mission, assuming Pigma was still with Wolf. Pigma had been kicked out long ago, and the attack simply killed many of Wolf's soldiers and vessels. Wolf was not thrilled, and attacked Fox, attempting to drive him from the system. Wolf did not succeed, however.(Dang AI, I hate it). Wolf, however, knew that something was up, and followed Fox afterward. He was right to do so. He saved Fox from certain death on a wayward mission to Corneria where Fox managed to get himself surrounded by powerful aparoids. Wolf helped Fox escape. Wolf and his team also soon after assist Fox in protecting a space station developing a program to counter the aparoids. Wolf even makes the ultimate sacrifice in the final run against the aparoid queen so Team StarFox can deliver the program. Wolf's wingmen, Leon and Panther, were willing to die right alongside him, which to me suggests a strong, intelligent, fair leader. It was not the end, however. Wolf and his team survive their diversion, and actually appear in StarFox Command. The Wolf lives on. Wolf is fiercy loyal, and protective of those he's close to. He doesn't care what the critics say, and will do anything for a cause he supports. He's confident and a good leader. In this I find a bond to Wolf through personality... and almost consider him a brother. Now THAT is a very deep story, and a dynamic character. As you can see, he's nowhere near "unimportant."

I'll address another point. This is for those of you who have read the movesets and the essay and still remain stubbornly unyielding. So you think Wolf will be a clone. So? Is that necessarily a bad thing? No. If he's a clone, guess where he'll be? Top Tier. Right along side his franchise siblings. He'll be popular, and totally awesome. So to be honest, I might PREFER Wolf as a clone.

Wolf is a dark character from an underrepresented franchise, and he BELONGS in Brawl. His appearance there would forever
ensure his ultimate glory.

__________________________________________________ _____________

4)
__________________________________________________ _____________
My goal was to show you how valid and excellent a character Wolf is. I'm sure I succeeded.

So please:

If I didn't convince you, I'll review a few reasons that you should support Wolf:

1) Antagonist

2) Underrepresented franchise

3) Top-Tier potential

4) Huge moveset potential

5) A Nintendo All-Star if I've ever seen one.

I don't ask you to become a fan, I ask you to acknowledge Wolf's validity as a character and support him. That's not asking much."
"Clone? Too similar to Fox?" I don't think so.

 

[Bowserlick]

Nice essay with very good points. I am glad someone took the time to actually spell out an argument besides saying "Wolf iz kewl" or "Andross sux, wolf is more popular he will be in not a clone."

However, I still would rather have Andross in. Why? Because he has more potential to be different then fox. I know you have declared that there are many humans with different movesets and personalities. A wolf and fox start off more different because they are diffrent species. But the fact is both characters have the same appendages quickly a tail, both animals have a similar look, and most importantly both are leaders of spacecraft that are fundamentally very similar. Both use space weapons. Samus and Mario are both humans but they have different armour, are from different parts of space and time, and have different specialites, Wolf and Fox are both great pilots and leaders of a squad.

Gannondorf and C.F are very different, but they have similar body frames. Gannondorf's body looks like C.F's, just larger. Therefore, he would be slower and stronger. Wolf's body looks like Fox's so he might just be slower and stronger with the same moves.

But since you showed me how he could still be unique I don't think I would be too disappointed if he showed up in the game as long as he did have those more unquie movesets and was not a clone. Clones are boring.

The thing is Andross has so much more design potential. Before he was a giant head, he was a regular- human sized ape scientist. Perfect character model for smash brothers. But what about his moves? Well I just thought of some.

Andross's Moveset (Scientist version- average size)

The ape would wear a belt with gadgets, devices, and potions holstered and strapped on. He would have a leather vest with a V neck split to allow his furry chest hair to stick out. Also goggles would be mounted on his hair and he would have a black cloak. Andross would also have metal gloves with thrusters located on the palm. The thrusters would act kinda like jetpacks allowing Andross to jump high and float a little of the floor like Mewtwo. The thrusters would also allow him to propel his punches, making him stronger then he would be. He would be a floaty character unless you press down while he was in the air. Then the engines would shut off and the metal gloves would make him a fast faller.

Walk: His hands would be at his sides with the thrusters on. Blue fire would expel from his palms and he would slowly foot a few inches off the ground toward his oppenent.

Run: Andross holds his hands behind him and the thrusters shoot out longer flames propelling Andross forward at a high speed similar to Pichu's. Terrible at quick turns.

Running A: Andross would bring his hands forward to clap at the enemy. The movement of his thruster enabled gloves would make his jolt backwards a little distance as he clapped. Sends oppenent forward. Good for setting some distance between fighters.

A: Punch
AA: Punch and then extended palm
AAA: Punch, then extended palm, then another extended palm
AAAAunch, one extended palm plant, then another, then the thrusters would turn on really quick propelling Andross backwards a few feet.

>A: Andross hovers with hands at the side and kicks at the oppenent

^A: Andross uppercuts, thruster turns on, and Andross lifts a foot higher off the floor before thruster snaps off and he descends back into hovering position, when the thruster turns back on.

Duck: Thrusters turn off and Andross crouches on the floor.
Down A: Thrusters turn on quickly, making Andross to a quick spin while crouching with one foot stuck out. Accelerated Sweep kick.

Forward Smash: Swings one arm around in a full circle with thruster on leaving a trail of fire. Metal fist crashes to the floor. If A is pressed again, his other glove thruster will turn on and repeat the pattern going forward.

Down Smash: Andross clasps his gloves together and hammerfists the ground making the floor ripple in a set circumference around him. Sends oppenents upwards. Some rocks and debris might pop up and hover a foot in the air for a few seconds after for effect only.

Up Smash: Andross Machine gun punches upward, juggiling the oppenent

Down B: Andross's cape whirls outward. Flat Metal rectangles come flying out from the background and form steps for Andross to walk on. Five blocks come out. Andross can walk back and forth or just one way or even diagnol. This could be used to make a cieling so oppenents can't jump upward to get back on stage. Andross falls afterwards and can't use moves until he hits the ground.

B: Andross throws a Vortex Grenade from his belt. It explodes after three seconds. Could be picked up and thrown by others. Only one Grenade could be on the floor at a time. When it explodes it makes a blackish blue sphere which sucks in anyone nearby including Andross. Radius like Kirby's except all the way around the sphere. Does damage and keeps person in place like Young Link's Up B spin. Good way to trap oppenents.

Forward B: Andross extends both palms forward and a green grid shaped like a metal rectangle block shoots out. If B is pressed while the green grid is going forward it will solidify into a metal step rotating forward in the air. If it hits an oppenent it will smash and do damage to the enemy. If the oppenent has a high percentage it might carry the enemy with it for a few moments before cracking and exploding. Only one could be out at a time.

Up B: Andross does a backflip and disappears into a blue vortex. You could angle the direction of his reapperance like Zelda's Up B. Except it is about half as long.

Air Battle:

Nuetral A: Does a Midair flip similar to Captain Falcon's Up A. But much weaker.
Forward A: Midair slap with metal glove.
Backward A: Andross extends one arm backwards and his glove spews out a spout of fire to rack up damage on oppenent. Sends Andross forwards a little.
Down A: Does a split in the air with his legs and throws one heavy gloved hand downwards between open legs. Meteor Smash.
Up A: Andross reaches upward with a metal glove in a grabbing motion. If he hits an oppenent he throws them downward. Down throw is weak, oppenent goes underneath Andross setting him up for a down A move.

Andross Throws: Grabs oppenent with metal glove.
A: Burns oppenent with thrusters on glove.
Forward: Skids forward on feet briefly before swinging his arm in a full circle still clutching the enemy and finally releasing him forward in an arch. A little further then Mario's forward throw but due to arch harder to die from.
Backward: Quick throw backwards. Straight trajectory.
Downward: Throws oppenent to the ground and machine gun punches their body until they jolt upwards.
Upward: Andross teleports the oppenent a few feet above him. Oppenent disappears in a flash of blue and then a portal opens above Andross. At this point the oppenent could jump or attack once he or she exits telport.

 

[yoshiherder]

Nice essay with very good points. I am glad someone took the time to actually spell out an argument besides saying "Wolf iz kewl" or "Andross sux, wolf is more popular he will be in not a clone."

However, I still would rather have Andross in. Why? Because he has more potential to be different then fox. I know you have declared that there are many humans with different movesets and personalities. A wolf and fox start off more different because they are diffrent species. But the fact is both characters have the same appendages quickly a tail, both animals have a similar look, and most importantly both are leaders of spacecraft that are fundamentally very similar. Both use space weapons. Samus and Mario are both humans but they have different armour, are from different parts of space and time, and have different specialites, Wolf and Fox are both great pilots and leaders of a squad. Both Samus and Fox use space weapons, I suppose they are clones, too? A tail? Zelda and Peach wear a dress each, I guess they are clones. CF is a bounty hunter, and so is Samus... Clones, right? Right there I've shown you that sharing weapons, or professiong, or appearance isn't clone-sure.

Gannondorf and C.F are very different, but they have similar body frames. Gannondorf's body looks like C.F's, just larger. Therefore, he would be slower and stronger. Wolf's body looks like Fox's so he might just be slower and stronger with the same moves. 1) No clones in Brawl, says Sakurai. 2) Mario and Luigi appear similar, body wise... Oh wow, they aren't clones

But since you showed me how he could still be unique I don't think I would be too disappointed if he showed up in the game as long as he did have those more unquie movesets and was not a clone. Clones are boring.

The thing is Andross has so much more design potential. Before he was a giant head, he was a regular- human sized ape scientist. Perfect character model for smash brothers. But what about his moves? Well I just thought of some.

The moveset is... acceptable. Have we ever seen him as said scientist? No, so that ruins his chance. It cannot be a character model if you alone know of him in this form. All other people know him only as a giant head.

 

[HiddenTiger]

Andross is probably the last possible character I would pick for Brawl. I mean, take away the head, and what do you have left? Master and Crazy hands. He's the least workable character out of the entire Starfox series. Heck, I'd reather see Miyu Lynx or Faye Poodle before Andross. Sure, you can say that he could appear as he once was, but if you were a game programmer, what would you rather do:

A) Design a completely new character out of a face and hands, and then create a moveset based on what he might have possibly been like when he was in a time that nobody's ever heard about, or

B) Use an already existing character with an already developed personality and fanbase, and create moves around that framework.

It's the same thing as when a friend of mine tried to support Diglett as a playable character. You can talk on and on about all the complicated ways to make him work and what special exceptions could be made for him, but the fact of the matter is that it'll never happen.

 

[Bowserlick]

I honestly think he will get in. Sakurai is crazy. He likes challenges like this. He put in fox who had no moveset. Seems like no problem now, but when he pitched the idea it might of been weird. He also added the ice climbers who fight as a duo. He likes the weird ideas. And designers might want a challenge where they could be more creative.

 

[HiddenTiger]

True, Fox had no moveset, but he does have something that Andross doesn't: a torso. And yes, I know that Sakurai said that he doesn't want to add only popular characters, but I don't think that this is quite what he meant. I really can't see Andross being playable without him being either extremely broken or extremely cheap. He's definately the last SF character on my list.

 

[Link'sShadow]

I would rather have him in boss mode (AKA Slayer Mode) see thread, but I would like to see Andross in Humanoid form.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=74771&highlight=boss+mode

1. He could look like his nephew Andrew Onkinnay <sp> but larger build and older.

2. Nice movesets you could also combine weapons that were use by the enemies in Starfox 64 but shrunck down handheld style.

3. He is deffintatly an original character and would dare say he has better chances then Slippy or Peppy but not Krystal or Wolf.

 

[Bowserlick]

I wouldn't mind if Krystal got in over Andross. I have never played games with her in it, but she looks like she could have an original movset plus there should be more female characters. However, I do want the scientist humanoid version of Andross in the game over any other star fox character. I have been checking the wolf threads and even though there are some good ideas about wolf, he still comes off as fos-esque with some moves. Plus I think with the addition of Snake and with the possibility of Falco getting a new moveset, there will be alot of shooters and tech users already. Andross would definately have a cool moveset that would be unlike the others. Plus he is Star Fox's main villain. Star Fox wouldn't have a job if it wasn't for Andross.

 

[yoshiherder]

I honestly think he will get in. Sakurai is crazy. He likes challenges like this. He put in fox who had no moveset. Seems like no problem now, but when he pitched the idea it might of been weird. He also added the ice climbers who fight as a duo. He likes the weird ideas. And designers might want a challenge where they could be more creative.

Fox ACTUALLY HAD a basic moveset. He was able to move around and use the blaster in SF64. A giant floating head and two hands, or a demented scientist that no one has heard of = not Brawl material, and Sakurai knows the difference b/w a challenge and a poor choice.

 

[Bowserlick]

No one really heard of Game and Watch. In fact more people knew about Andross then Game and Watch. More people knew about Andross then Ness. People now know about them because they were featured in Melee. So yes Andorss would be a good choice as well as a nice challenge. I will make a friednly bet that Andross gets in over Wolf.

 

[Thrillhouse-vh.]

No one really heard of Game and Watch. In fact more people knew about Andross then Game and Watch. More people knew about Andross then Ness. People now know about them because they were featured in Melee. So yes Andorss would be a good choice as well as a nice challenge. I will make a friednly bet that Andross gets in over Wolf.

*source*?

I knew who Mr. Game adn Watch was from because my cousin had both the "Fire" and "Octopus" Game and watches, and I had "Game and watch Gallery", but no one was suspecting him to be in Brawl, so if Nintendo wants andross in Brawl, it's fine by me, but I'd rather see wolf or Krystal.

EDIT: I also knew Ness was from Earthbound in SSB64

 

[Xsyven]

Andross before he was a head and hands was nothing but an old fart who played with test tubes.

Wow. He REALLY fits in well.

And that Wolf with the menacing grin that's been a mercenary for years, and who's soul purpose in life is to rejoin Fox with his dead father... nah, he'd suck.


I hope you caught my sarcasm.

 

[Black Metal]

You say you want a cool SF enemy
But a rival is better than plain enmity
Andross is lame, not unlike an O'Connell
It twould be better to pick Wolf O'Donnell

 

[Bowserlick]

No. Rivals that are darker meaner versions of the other characters are usually lame. Yes lets have Wolf and also lets have Dark Link and Dark Samus as separate characters. And if they add Sonic, lets put Shadow in as well. Who needs variety when you could make a character a shade darker or a little bigger with an eye patch.

 

[Thrillhouse-vh.]

You say you want a cool SF enemy
But a rival is better than plain enmity
Andross is lame, not unlike an O'Connell
It twould be better to pick Wolf O'Donnell

That was pretty witty, + rep for you!

 

[Black Metal]

No. Rivals that are darker meaner versions of the other characters are usually lame. Yes lets have Wolf and also lets have Dark Link and Dark Samus as separate characters. And if they add Sonic, lets put Shadow in as well. Who needs variety when you could make a character a shade darker or a little bigger with an eye patch.

I would rather Dr. Eggman. Sylux/Weavel/Kanden, and keep Gdorf.

 

[Vulpine51]

That was pretty witty, + rep for you!

Aye it was!

I must say that would be deeply saddened if Andross took the place of Wolf or Krystal. Andross is just a poor character in general. Dont make me bring up another picture of him looking ********.

Oh and in case your wondering. Yes that is where I got this sig. Laughed my ** off the first time I saw it.

 

[Bowserlick]

Andross would bring more flavor and wackiness to Smash Brothers. He is an old orangutang with a gut and scientific tools to defeat his oppenents. We already have a pilot furry animal. In fact we have two. We don't need three.

I wouldn't mind Wolf so much if they took out Falco. But I think Falco could be made better then Wolf could.

 

[Iggy K]

No one really heard of Game and Watch. In fact more people knew about Andross then Game and Watch. More people knew about Andross then Ness. People now know about them because they were featured in Melee. So yes Andorss would be a good choice as well as a nice challenge. I will make a friednly bet that Andross gets in over Wolf.

I knew G&W before I knew about any Starfox characters, as well as quite a few of the Melee cast, and yes, I knew him before Melee, because I had a game called Game and Watch Gallery 2, and being more known than Melee characters is a good excuse to add someone? Tjen I guess Birdo, Waluigi, Goomba and Daisy are in.

 

[Bowserlick]

Nope. See they are not that interesting. Birdo is like Yoshi, Waluigi like Wario, Daisy like peach, and goombas are not on smash level. Wolf would be like Birdo, Waluigi and Daisy. Just like the better model. Andross would be different. Sakuria likes different. Lets just wait and see if Andross gets in over wolf. I bet he does.

 

[Xsyven]

Who wants to be an old crusty monkey?! ANSWER ME THIS! You're the only one in this WHOLE THREAD that thinks its a good idea, yet you're still persistent.

And I'm glad you brought up the point that Goomba's aren't on a smash level. You see... NEITHER IS ANDROSS. HE HAS NO BODY.

BUT YOU SAY WE CAN BUILD HIM ONE?

LET'S GIVE GOOMBAS ARMS AND A BODY TOO, ZOMG.

See how stupid your idea sounds. k thnx.


Sorry if that was a little too... harsh. >>

 

[Bowserlick]

No. That is a silly point. Goombas are not main characters. Andross is a main enemy. If that escapes your mind then I lost hope for you. Read a book or something.

 

[xianfeng]

No one really heard of Game and Watch. In fact more people knew about Andross then Game and Watch. More people knew about Andross then Ness. People now know about them because they were featured in Melee. So yes Andorss would be a good choice as well as a nice challenge. I will make a friednly bet that Andross gets in over Wolf.

Ok I'll take your bet, when I win you have to change your sig to a picture of Andross getting OWNED by wolf and it has to say "I am SUXXORZZ!!111!!!" or something like that

 

[Bowserlick]

Alright its a deal. And if Andross is in I am sure you can think of somethign humiliating and slap it in your post. Good luck though. I like your attitude.

 

[Xsyven]

Why should I read a book? You obviously read too many to think that Andross would be a 'super cool' character. What are you, homeschooled?

Anyway, Wolf has everything. Andross has nothing.

Wolf: Cool, Strong, Fast(er than a crusty monkey), and is overall, pleasing to look at.

Andross: Smart, ... ... bodyless? ... Hmm...

Wolf: 4
Andross: 1

 

[Bowserlick]

You are right, Andross is number one while Wolf is only.... number four. Wolf would turn out like Falco and Fox. That means unoriginal. Andross would have a body in the game. You should read the first post before rambiling on. Andross hired wolf. Wolf is Andross's prostitute. Andross is the pimp. Andross wins.

 

[Thrillhouse-vh.]

You are right, Andross is number one while Wolf is only.... number four. Wolf would turn out like Falco and Fox. That means unoriginal. Andross would have a body in the game. You should read the first post before rambiling on. Andross hired wolf. Wolf is Andross's prostitute. Andross is the pimp. Andross wins.

It;s been proven many times, even by yourself, that Wolf =/= Fox in terms of movesets and stats. Andross is no pimp, Hamtaro's pimp.

 

[Bowserlick]

That made no sense. Neither does Wolf for Brawl. But lets just wait. You will see that monkey and you will be like,"He was right. By Mary's collection of Mulberries he was right. God bless that man. Andross is great."

 

[FiErCe_oNi]

when i think of andross i see a really old chimp in a crusty labcoat *shivers*
listen, you noobs. there is no way wolf would be a clone. now
hey, you know fox, where did he get any of his moves from? o wait thats it, they made up every single move from him. in ssb during SF 64 he had no known moves.
falco? why is he a clone? you all know why he is a clone. because they ran outta time.
now if they made a completely unique moveset for fox, i wonder if they could do it for wolf. and falco.
andross should only ever be a boss character like master hand. he has never been seen as a normal chimp, so i doubt they would create a character and add it to the game when he never existed like that.

 

[Bowserlick]

You just messed up your own point. You said Fox was never seen out of his ship but they made a moveset for him anyways. Andross was never seen with a body. But he had one and they could make a moveset when he was a mad scientist. Thank you for helping my point.

 

[Xsyven]

If any monkey's getting in, it's Diddy Kong.

Sakurai's clever, he likes to add the last characters you'd ever think of-- Ice Climbers, Pit, G&W. But you know what? There's a difference. Those people are all 'cool'.

No one would ever like Andross. Why not? Because a small carniverous animal called a wolf is 30 times better.

If Wolf doesn't get in... oh well. If Andross doesn't get in... DUUUUHHH.

 

[Thrillhouse-vh.]

That made no sense. Neither does Wolf for Brawl.

Alright, THAT made no sense. Wolf > Andross. If Andross is so great, why isn't everyone saying "OH MAN! I CAN'T WAIT FOR ANDROSS TO BE IN BRAWL!" it's because he sucks as a villian. Now, let's see a Wolf fan. "OH MAN! I CAN'T WAIT FOR WOLF TO BE IN BRAWL!" Exactly my point. Now, let's get this straight: ANDROSS =/= PIMP! HAMTARO = PIMP

= :******:

=

 

[FiErCe_oNi]

You just messed up your own point. You said Fox was never seen out of his ship but they made a moveset for him anyways. Andross was never seen with a body. But he had one and they could make a moveset when he was a mad scientist. Thank you for helping my point.

what the heck are you on about? fox always had a body even though you could use if you got a high score in 1P mode for multiplayer. the only move he could use was a normal jump and shoot out of some sort of cannon. so he had one known move but he didnt even use it in ssb.
has anyone ever seen what androsses body even looks like? never. there is no way they will suddenly make up his body for a fighting game not based around him.

 

[Xsyven]

Heck, you even said it in the topic title:

Andross for Brawl! Starfox needs a cool enemy

Wolf = Cool

Unless you have some fetish with... old... monkeys... I'm done here. Sorry, this guy just makes me mad.