Analyzing Mewtwo's Changes (Now with a Buffs and Nerfs list)

[ansossy]

vs

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

vs

... *sniff*

 

[meleebrawler]

Could Mewtwo's F-Tilt always be angled?

Because it can in Sm4sh!

Edit: Apparently, yes, he can angle it in Melee . My bad.

I think it also deals cutting damage now for some reason. Look at the pic where he uses it on Greninja.

The fact that both his hands ooze darkness with a fully charged Shadow Ball coincides nicely with
the fact that he can throw it with either hand now.

It depends on which side you're facing:

How strong do you think Lucario's Aura Sphere was when Shadow Ball out-prioritized it?
(And wouldn't it be hilarious if Mewtwo had an Aura Sphere custom that was identical to Lucario's,
getting more powerful with damage included?).

 

[godogod]

It depends on which side you're facing:

he looks like he is using infusion to reflect Lucario's AS..

 

[A-money2121]

Darn, I wish he would be revamped. I'm a little disappointed that he's like melee.

I don't think that's really a valid excuse. The best thing that could happen with Mewtwo at this point is a buff for his moves. A good example of this is Mario. Mario was low tier in Super Smash Bros. Brawl. Mario didn't have the combo's he did now, and he would get some start-up and landing lag with some moves he used. Now, in this recreation of smash, Mario's A LOT stronger than he was back in Brawl. He's got sweet combos and most of his moves barely have any end or startup-lag. I should also mention that not a SINGLE move was changed from Mario's moveset from Brawl. So, just because Mewtwo still has his Melee moveset, it doesn't mean that Mewtwo is still bad. Who knows, maybe Mewtwo got the Mario treatment.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

Hmmm

This may help for the range of foward aerial.

 

[A-money2121]

Hmmm

This may help for the range of foward aerial.

To be fair, it does look like they're air dodging. Well, at least the one with the Majora's Mask.

 

[RadianB]

he looks like he is using infusion to reflect Lucario's AS..

The purple ball is Shadow Ball so he can't be using confusion.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

To be fair, it does look like they're air dodging. Well, at least the one with the Majora's Mask.

True but if the majora mask mii diden't dodge we are looking at a hit.


Oh another one for the boards

By how far mewtwo was from wii fit trainer with side smash, thats farther range as well.

 

[Dexmaster]

I wanna bring up the clip where he hits luigi into the cannon. He still has a lot of upward momentom after using his aerial. Is that special for him? Or can Ness do that?

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

So apparently Mewtwo now has his own Hoo Hah! because I saw him combo from Dthrwo to Usmash.

 

[U-Throw]

I wanna bring up the clip where he hits luigi into the cannon. He still has a lot of upward momentom after using his aerial. Is that special for him? Or can Ness do that?

I'm pretty sure Ness can do that, too. I've fought several on For Glory who have used their double jump and F-Air as an admittedly effective edge-guard breaking technique.

 

[---]

Hmmm

This may help for the range of foward aerial.

It's definitely a different animation than in Melee.

Reminds me of Charizard's new F-Air.

So apparently Mewtwo now has his own Hoo Hah! because I saw him combo from Dthrwo to Usmash.

We'll see, to be honest that in particular looked like something that would be very easy to SD/Air Dodge out of, even for CPUs.

D-Throw -> Up-Air hopefully has a lot of potential.

 

[WingedKnight]

Can't wait to see some frame data for these moves. The trailer and images make it look like basically everything in Mewtwo's moveset has seen improvements in some combination of speed, range, power, or usefulness of effect. It will be great when we can start confirming priority, knockback scaling, potential strings and combos, and tricks to do with the special moves. Gonna lab hard once the 15th rolls around.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

Can't wait to see some frame data for these moves. The trailer and images make it look like basically everything in Mewtwo's moveset has seen improvements in some combination of speed, range, power, or usefulness of effect. It will be great when we can start confirming priority, knockback scaling, potential strings and combos, and tricks to do with the special moves. Gonna lab hard once the 15th rolls around.

Makes 2 of us going to see how much MORE reliable mewtwo is.

 

[meleebrawler]

Anyone think Dair has more active frames? The foot he uses to stomp stays in that position for a while.

 

[Chiroz]

It's definitely a different animation than in Melee.

Reminds me of Charizard's new F-Air.



We'll see, to be honest that in particular looked like something that would be very easy to SD/Air Dodge out of, even for CPUs.

D-Throw -> Up-Air hopefully has a lot of potential.

Na it's the same animation, he is just stretching his arm out a little longer. So I think it now has more range by the looks of it. Buff? That move always had very little range. Wonder if its still really good for combos on fast fallers at low % and if it still has good KO power.

he looks like he is using infusion to reflect Lucario's AS..

Lucario's AS is blue and does not have a black energy ring sorrounding it. This is definitely Shadow Ball.

 

[anas abou]

I dont have a very sharp eye for this, but I think it´s between Samus and Ganondorf height.

that profil pic is so perfect

 

[Chiroz]

Anyone think Dair has more active frames? The foot he uses to stomp stays in that position for a while.

I think the active frames just come out earlier and the move still has the same overall lag, which would make Mewtwo perform the first part of the animation much faster and the second part much slower (in order for the move to have the same amount of lag).

 

[---]

Na it's the same animation, he is just stretching his arm out a little longer. So I think it now has more range by the looks of it. Buff? That move always had very little range. Wonder if its still really good for combos on fast fallers at low % and if it still has good KO power.

Maybe it is the same move? lol http://www.serebii.net/picture.php?smash_bros_2/characters/Mewtwo/Mewtwo-012.jpg

Definitely looks a lot more awkward though.

 

[Blue Ninjakoopa]

Has this been covered yet? Mewtwo's Confusion is now a legitimate reflector. In Melee when it turned any projectile around, that projectile would remain under the opponent's ownership and thus wouldn't hurt said opponent.

In the trailer Mewtwo uses Confusion to redirect Roy's Clown Cannon ball back at him and the ball deals damage.

Also, as in Melee, it's a command grab, and having a command grab is a good thing in this game.

 

[Chiroz]

Maybe it is the same move? lol http://www.serebii.net/picture.php?smash_bros_2/characters/Mewtwo/Mewtwo-012.jpg

Definitely looks a lot more awkward though.

Yea, he has the arm much more outstretched, which could mean the move itself has better range. Judging by the many pictures though it seems like it's the same animation (He slashes from the bottom side towards the inside top of his body)

 

[godogod]

I know its pretty preliminary.. But taking account of all the buffs, what favorable character match ups do you guys think he would he have?

 

[Chiroz]

I know its pretty preliminary.. But taking account of all the buffs, what favorable character match ups do you guys think he would he have?

It's too early to tell honestly. But I think anyone with a predictable recovery is going to have a hard time fighting Mewtwo.

 

[Beach]

Does anyone know if we can float? That would help immensely with Nair landing lag if we could float and do it.

 

[Chiroz]

Does anyone know if we can float? That would help immensely with Nair landing lag if we could float and do it.

I doubt it. I wouldn't expect much things from PM.

 

[godogod]

to me, it seems like Mewtwo will be good against the slow and heavy fighters and fighters with bad recoveries.

I hope he stands a chance against the smaller faster ones.

random question: If you could only alter mewetwo's speed (make him faster) or weight(heavier), which one would you pick? Assume strength is the same. What would be more useful for him?

 

[Novice_Brave]

Hi there!

I'm no Mewtwo expert - played Melee mostly between the ages of 5 and 10 so most of my memory from seven and a half years ago is pretty dodgy, lol. But I recently popped it in again to refamiliarize myself with Mewtwo and his kit a bit, and I noticed that when paused at the right time, ftilt and dtilt look almost identical in the still.

With that in mind, I'm wondering if you guys are positive this move: http://i.imgur.com/pl3Xlig.jpg - is ftilt and not dtilt.

One reason I was questioning it (other than the fact that it's hard for me to tell them apart in melee when he's paused in that pose, may be perfectly easy for someone more used to mewtwo and his animations though!) was the fact that this move: http://i.imgur.com/AnzF2bB.jpg - is definitely an angled ftilt. That move's got a purple trail, and the tip of the tail is definitely curved.

The first move hitting Little Mac doesn't have the purple trail and (to me, could be wrong here for sure) looks like the tip is more straight. Of course, these differences could also just be the difference between a non-angled and an angled ftilt, but I'm pretty sure most angled tilts with trails have trails regardless of the direction they're tilted.

Just hoping I might be helping you guys out to identify one of the missing moves! Apologies if it's just my more inexperienced mind playing tricks on me

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

to me, it seems like Mewtwo will be good against the slow and heavy fighters and fighters with bad recoveries.

I hope he stands a chance against the smaller faster ones.

random question: If you could only alter mewetwo's speed (make him faster) or weight(heavier), which one would you pick? Assume strength is the same. What would be more useful for him?

One of the big problems Mewtwo had in Melee was how he was a powerhouse but he got rekt bad because of how light he was, so I would personally increase his weight a little bit

Hi there!

I'm no Mewtwo expert - played Melee mostly between the ages of 5 and 10 so most of my memory from seven and a half years ago is pretty dodgy, lol. But I recently popped it in again to refamiliarize myself with Mewtwo and his kit a bit, and I noticed that when paused at the right time, ftilt and dtilt look almost identical in the still.

With that in mind, I'm wondering if you guys are positive this move: http://i.imgur.com/pl3Xlig.jpg - is ftilt and not dtilt.

One reason I was questioning it (other than the fact that it's hard for me to tell them apart in melee when he's paused in that pose, may be perfectly easy for someone more used to mewtwo and his animations though!) was the fact that this move: http://i.imgur.com/AnzF2bB.jpg - is definitely an angled ftilt. That move's got a purple trail, and the tip of the tail is definitely curved.

The first move hitting Little Mac doesn't have the purple trail and (to me, could be wrong here for sure) looks like the tip is more straight. Of course, these differences could also just be the difference between a non-angled and an angled ftilt, but I'm pretty sure most angled tilts with trails have trails regardless of the direction they're tilted.

Just hoping I might be helping you guys out to identify one of the missing moves! Apologies if it's just my more inexperienced mind playing tricks on me

Definitely Forward tilt

 

[ReRaze]

@ Chiroz I think that what you assumed to be dthrow could possibly/actually be Mewtwo's utilt like captain falcon and samus's utilt? It didn't look like a grab/throw to me especially considering the way it hit both opponents at once. Just a thought, correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Chiroz]

@ Chiroz I think that what you assumed to be dthrow could possibly/actually be Mewtwo's utilt like captain falcon and samus's utilt? It didn't look like a grab/throw to me especially considering the way it hit both opponents at once. Just a thought, correct me if I'm wrong.

It's D-Throw, we know this because it's the exact same that it was in Melee. His U-Tilt is a very awkward backflip while outstretching his tail (the tail is the hitbox). I hope they at least change his animation a slight bit, it seemed really awkward in Melee.

 

[ReRaze]

It's D-Throw, we know this because it's the exact same that it was in Melee. His U-Tilt is a very awkward backflip while outstretching his tail (the tail is the hitbox). I hope they at least change his animation a slight bit, it seemed really awkward in Melee.

Thats great! I wonder if dthrow to usmash will work at kill percents like in the video or maybe if mewtwo had an uair that kills he can do the hoo ha

 

[Chiroz]

Hi there!

I'm no Mewtwo expert - played Melee mostly between the ages of 5 and 10 so most of my memory from seven and a half years ago is pretty dodgy, lol. But I recently popped it in again to refamiliarize myself with Mewtwo and his kit a bit, and I noticed that when paused at the right time, ftilt and dtilt look almost identical in the still.

With that in mind, I'm wondering if you guys are positive this move: http://i.imgur.com/pl3Xlig.jpg - is ftilt and not dtilt.

One reason I was questioning it (other than the fact that it's hard for me to tell them apart in melee when he's paused in that pose, may be perfectly easy for someone more used to mewtwo and his animations though!) was the fact that this move: http://i.imgur.com/AnzF2bB.jpg - is definitely an angled ftilt. That move's got a purple trail, and the tip of the tail is definitely curved.

The first move hitting Little Mac doesn't have the purple trail and (to me, could be wrong here for sure) looks like the tip is more straight. Of course, these differences could also just be the difference between a non-angled and an angled ftilt, but I'm pretty sure most angled tilts with trails have trails regardless of the direction they're tilted.

Just hoping I might be helping you guys out to identify one of the missing moves! Apologies if it's just my more inexperienced mind playing tricks on me

Mewtwo crouches while using D-Tilt, the tail also sweeps on the ground and not in the air. He isn't crouching and the tail isn't on the ground in that picture, definitely not D-Tilt.

Also if you look closely, you CAN see the purple trail behind Little Mac. Look close to where the tail is connecting to Little Mac, a little lower.

Thats great! I wonder if dthrow to usmash will work at kill percents like in the video or maybe if mewtwo had an uair that kills he can do the hoo ha

Well, Mewtwo's U-Air in Melee was quite weak, it was really good for combos (Think of Mario's U-Air) and the range on it was great for juggles (Think of Captain Falcon's U-Air), but not really a good kill move.

I also doubt that Down-Throw combos into U-Smash at kill %. Remember that they showed a lot of combos in previous trailers that weren't really combos. It can be used as a mix up and it will score a KO every now and then when you get a good read, but I doubt it's a true combo. (at least at Kill %, it might be a true combo at low %s).

 

[BugCatcherWill]

I have a question:
Say Mewtwo uses Confusion on DHD's can. Would that change the can's ownership, or would it just explode?

This will be, of course, speculation.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

I have a question:
Say Mewtwo uses Confusion on DHD's can. Would that change the can's ownership, or would it just explode?

This will be, of course, speculation.

Change the can's ownership probably.

 

[Chiroz]

I have a question:
Say Mewtwo uses Confusion on DHD's can. Would that change the can's ownership, or would it just explode?

This will be, of course, speculation.

The same thing that happens when you cape it.

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

Something that I see that people haven't been bringing a lot is that Mewtwo seems to be able to follow up Confusion with an attack as seen with Greninja; gone are the days when hitting with that move would cause the user to get punished instead.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

Something that I see that people haven't been bringing a lot is that Mewtwo seems to be able to follow up Confusion with an attack as seen with Greninja; gone are the days when hitting with that move would cause the user to get punished instead.

...If you mean in this thread then its because its already in the OP

But in general, I see people mention it here and there, but not much.

 

[Sonsa]

Something that I see that people haven't been bringing a lot is that Mewtwo seems to be able to follow up Confusion with an attack as seen with Greninja; gone are the days when hitting with that move would cause the user to get punished instead.

Huh? Couldn't you always follow that up with an up-smash in Melee? Maybe it was only at higher percents...? I just remember I would so often side-b, slide in there and up-smash. Maybe follow up with a nair or something, am I remembering this wrong?

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

Huh? Couldn't you always follow that up with an up-smash in Melee? Maybe it was only at higher percents...? I just remember I would so often side-b, slide in there and up-smash. Maybe follow up with a nair or something, am I remembering this wrong?

Nope, after Confusion, ANY character could simply Bair Mewtwo, even if the move connected >_>