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Analyzing Mewtwo's Changes (Now with a Buffs and Nerfs list)

meleebrawler

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A minor tidbit, but in Super Smash Bros. 4, Mewtwo's irises glow green when using the Disable technique - whereas in Super Smash Bros. Melee, Mewtwo's irises glow yellow.


Source: http://www.ssbwiki.com/Disable
I love how ridiculously low he crouches when using Disable now, as if he was sick and tired of missing the likes
of Jigglypuff and Kirby and wanted to make damn sure he gets them this time (he'll probably still miss if they crouch, though).

Aesthetic things, Mewtwo actually smirks in one of the pictures (the one with Mew), and Mega Mewtwo Y
REALLY looks like he's trying to asplode the fighter's brains.
 

ORVO5

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I love how ridiculously low he crouches when using Disable now, as if he was sick and tired of missing the likes
of Jigglypuff and Kirby and wanted to make damn sure he gets them this time (he'll probably still miss if they crouch, though).

Aesthetic things, Mewtwo actually smirks in one of the pictures (the one with Mew), and Mega Mewtwo Y
REALLY looks like he's trying to asplode the fighter's brains.
To me his Disable animation is pretty scary. It's like "Hey, look into my eyes!!"
 
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Enoki

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Anyone notice how he slides real far when doing his running usmash (which had what seemed like very high vertical range, I hope there's a good horizontal hitbox), yet in another shot it looks like he stops very quickly out of dashing?

Also, I hope confusion acts as a command grab. Because if so, then mewtwo has a very fast, aerial-if-need-be command grab that allows for free followups. As a Yoshi main, I appreciate that very much.
 

kirby3021

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I noticed that running usmash, reminds me of what Greninja used to be capable of. I'm excited that confusion and disable seem more viable, I hate having specials that aren't really usable.
 

Chiroz

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Luigi looks to be more in the middle of the tail. It's tough to say, but there's definitely some hitbox visualization there similar to Marth.

http://www.ssbwiki.com/File:Marth_and_Link_dash_attack_SSB4.jpg

Mewtwo's back-air always had a sweetspot (the trunk) and sourspot (the tip), I expect it to be the same this game.






I'm sorry but where on Earth did it show his pummel?
I thought Mewtwo did a pummel in the video before one of the throws, let me recheck, I might have mistaken it.
 

Metros

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I love how ridiculously low he crouches when using Disable now, as if he was sick and tired of missing the likes
of Jigglypuff and Kirby and wanted to make damn sure he gets them this time (he'll probably still miss if they crouch, though).

Aesthetic things, Mewtwo actually smirks in one of the pictures (the one with Mew), and Mega Mewtwo Y
REALLY looks like he's trying to asplode the fighter's brains.
And on top of that, his humanoid stance and figure.

I noticed the aesthetic things as well. I said this in the other thread, but you can see his spine now when he comes out of teleport and does the twirl. You can also see the tendons on his wrist in the picture of him 'smirking' with Mew. I love how they've given him far more detail.

I saw him look up in one part of the trailer as well, his eye just glides up.

I'm also glad they gave him a slightly longer tail this time round, it always felt too short for him in Melee.
 

Oracle_Summon

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:4mewtwo: looks to be a copy of his Melee self, except that he has gotten buffed. Hopefully, that is the case.

I do notice that his moves are faster to pull off and his Side B attack looks as though it reflects projectiles as we can see in 0:50 on his gameplay video:

 

ORVO5

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Is it just me or is Mewtwo actually as big as Charizard? (Tail included.) Doesn't that seem big.. and just the right size? Or was he always that size? He didn't seem that big in Melee.. not that I looked at the size difference that close.. he looks heavier too.
 

Smog Frog

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what did you guys catch of his air speed? is it the same/similar? also it seems like he dashes faster, maybe uniform with the "floating" characters(meta knight, palutena, charizard, etc), who all happen to be top 10 in running speed.
 

Blatikin

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Is it me or does the part where he uses his shadow ball looks like he becomes the shadow ball?? Not shoot it.
 

incrediblej

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Well mewtwo's actually looks like he'll be competitively viable at the least I'm holding out for an olimar buff and tink buff but why and I watched the video for luigi misfire maybe he'll be top five from now on and win against anyone

Btw why isn't anyone talking about characters on this thread
 

Smog Frog

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He looks exactly the same as he did in Melee. Wasn't he terrible in that game?
yes, he was garbage. but that's because the offensive options of other characters preyed on mewtwo's suspect defensive game. now that there's a good balance and that confusion is actually functional, along with other miscellaneous improvements(usmash is a kill move now from what we have analyzed, he leans down for disable to hit smaller chars, jab having a finisher, double jump retaining momentum, and some other stuff) mewtwo actually has a good chance to be good. also, if disable and confusion wind up being terrible, there may be custom options to improve them.
 

Johnny Heart Gold

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I hope they made him an awesome character, keep in mind all characters look awesome on their trailers, I remember people calling :4palutena: OP just for the trailer, They screw Watch for me please don't screw Mewtwo, I want to use him a lot . BTW Why people say that mewtwo will beat Diddy Kong? His d-tilt is the key?? why?
 

deepseadiva

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Man, so some people aren't gonna get him for an additional two weeks?

That is going to be agonizing.
 

Jaguar360

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He looks exactly the same as he did in Melee. Wasn't he terrible in that game?
He retains everything from Melee's moveset, but a lot of the moves are buffed versions.

Up Smash has recieved a signficant buff with its bigger range and kill power and it seems that people don't just fall out of it anymore. D-throw --> hyphen U-smash was also shown as a kill combo in the trailer which is amazing if it ends up being a true combo.

Confusion actually reflects now and has more hitstun, so Mewtwo isn't vulnerable when he hits with it. It even seems that you can follow up after a Confusion reliably.

Disable's stun effect looks to be stronger this time around, but we can't be sure.

Mewtwo can apparently act out of F-throw a lot more quickly, which might be good for combos and/or setting up edguarding situations.

Teleport activates faster it seems and has less landing lag and/or endlag. This is great for both recovery and movement and possibly trickiness.

His jab combo has a finisher like most other multi-hit moves now, making it much safer to use since the finisher has knockback.

Runnning speed seems to be a tad faster.

Finally, the double jump is different and seems to move faster than his original dj. Can't see how far it goes though.

Then you have to consider the general Smash 4 mechanics compared to Melee like the ledge game, new air dodge and rage (Mewtwo's back throw and U-throw should be scary with rage if Melee is any indication). Mewtwo certainly seems like a good or great character this time around. All he needs now is a weight buff.
 
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HeavyLobster

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Mewtwo looks better than he did in Melee, but I'm not convinced he'll be high tier or anything. He at least doesn't look like he'll be garbage again. I don't see him as being a standout character, but he looks at least usable. Lucas on the other hand looks like a risk to fall into the broken DLC character category. A grounding Dthrow could be very scary if it means guaranteed Usmash setups, and his PK Thunder combos look scary too. He at least looks about as good as Ness if not a bit better.
 
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SmashBroski

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I hope Confusion doesn't suffer from the issue it did in Melee - where any character can just punish it with a B-air.

From the looks of it - or maybe it's just me - there's more hitstun to the move.
 

ILOVESMASH

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Mewtwo's tail is more upright, leading to his hit box being a bit smaller than it was previously.
 

SHiFT_

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I hope they made him an awesome character, keep in mind all characters look awesome on their trailers, I remember people calling :4palutena: OP just for the trailer, They screw Watch for me please don't screw Mewtwo, I want to use him a lot . BTW Why people say that mewtwo will beat Diddy Kong? His d-tilt is the key?? why?
D-tilt has always been incredible for spacing in previous games, which will help keep Diddy from getting those grabs.

If Mewtwo can keep itself faced toward Diddy, it can use a snappy d-tilt to quickly punish Diddy for attempting to grab.
 
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Chiroz

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Why people say that confusion doesnt had ownership on melee whats that?
Confusion would change the projectile's direction but the projectile would still belong to your opponent and thus wouldn't hit him (just go through him)



I hope they made him an awesome character, keep in mind all characters look awesome on their trailers, I remember people calling :4palutena: OP just for the trailer, They screw Watch for me please don't screw Mewtwo, I want to use him a lot . BTW Why people say that mewtwo will beat Diddy Kong? His d-tilt is the key?? why?
Down-Tilt was fast, had very good range, and started combos (I think it was also disjointed, I think the tip of Mewtwo's tail was disjointed on all tail attacks).
 

TheSMASHtyke

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I tried going through and analyzing the trailer myself in a post on reddit. It seems most of you all have picked up on what I caught as well, but I'll post it here for reference's sake:

----------

I'm far too caught up in Smash hype now to do anything but think about these videos, so I decided to look at the Mewtwo video more closely and catch any new information they offered. Here's everything I was able to pick up on throughout the trailer.

You can follow along by watching the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WvbwZYV7W0Q

0:17 The pose Mewtwo goes into here seems to be part of his idle animation from Melee

0:19 This appears to be a new taunt, followed by Teleport. Notice the effect that starts the Teleport off and the sound it makes.

0:21 Mewtwo's Jab from Melee returns, but now with an added finisher

0:23 Mewtwo's Dash attack returns as well, looking a bit more nicely animated

0:24 Mewtwo disappears, but due to lacking any sort of starting or ending effect, I reckon this is his air dodge ala Palutena and Rosalina. It might look like he double jumps into what seems to be his nair, but he actually lands. Previous jump height status unknown. Nair seems to have some nasty end lag to it.

0:28 Mewtwo's old hanging on the edge animation is back. Down Air is back and it's QUICK! This almost looks Brawl Falco Dair quick, though I might be a little over optimistic.

0:30 Mewtwo's Old Up Throw, Back Air, and previous ridiculous jump height are all back

0:34 Old Down Smash is back. No visual que that it hits behind mewtwo, though if this darkness effect is the moves's range, that's a much welcomed buff.

0:35 Shadow Ball still whirls and has a new fully charged sound effect. You can hear Mewtwo's voice as he throws the attack, so it looks like his Melee voice is back

0:36 Teleport is back with a new sound effect. Doesn't seem to have a hitbox

0:38 Confusion is back and is either very quick now or jump cancellable. I'm not sure what its previous capacity for interrupting attacks use to be but it stocks Charizards recovery and sends him into a tumble animation. IIRC, you can't tech a tumble, so this could lead to some jab lock style follow ups if you catch your opponent in midair

0:39 Disable is back and makes Mewtwo's eyes green for a second (ruined forever!)

0:42 Mewtwo's Confusion shows off its priority again stopping Greninja's counter. It does seem to just be much faster now since he can swipe with a beamsword right after

0:44 Old F-throw is back, Shadow Balls included.

0:46 This costume seems to be based off of the Shadow Lugia from Pokemon XD gale of darkness. D-Throw has a hitbox that hits other characters like Mario and Luigi's Back Throw. I doubt that the D-throw -> U Smash string featured here is a guaranteed combo, but it looks like at lower percents (since they were apparently at high percents here) can set up some basic combos and strings

0:51 Confusion reflects projectiles properly!

0:53 We get a quick glance at Mewtwo's run speed here. It seems to be somewhere from average to fast

0:54 Shiny coloration is back

0:55 Psystrike!

1:01 Another new taunt

So overall, what's been found is Mewtwo has his Melee moveset and recovery preserved almost completely with very likely some minor tweaks to attack speed, damage, and knockback. I know hearing that is going to concern a lot of you about how good Mewtwo will be in Smash 4, but this isn't terrible by any means. Ness has all of his moves from Melee and he's top tier in Smash 4. I think what will make or break Mewtwo will be some simple stuff like weight, frame data, whether or not his Dthrow leads into combos, and whether or not Uthrow keeps its outstanding kill potential from Melee.

Hope this made for an interesting read for some of you.
 
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Johnny Heart Gold

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Confusion would change the projectile's direction but the projectile would still belong to your opponent and thus wouldn't hit him (just go through him)





Down-Tilt was fast, had very good range, and started combos (I think it was also disjointed, I think the tip of Mewtwo's tail was disjointed on all tail attacks).
Oh yeah, I remember that didn't reflect it, I'm more used to PM mewtwo so I couldn't remember about his tail, in PM that tail is awesome for combos and spacing.
 

Bittersweet

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A Shadow Lugia based costume makes me so freaking happy. Here I was thinking Nintendo was pretending Colosseum and Gale of Darkness didn't exist.
 

C3CC

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Too bad Confusion doesn't give him that extra little jump anymore. I always used it to fool opponents who were waiting for me to touch the ground :troll:
 

Chiroz

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I tried going through and analyzing the trailer myself in a post on reddit. It seems most of you all have picked up on what I caught as well, but I'll post it here for reference's sake:

----------

I'm far too caught up in Smash hype now to do anything but think about these videos, so I decided to look at the Mewtwo video more closely and catch any new information they offered. Here's everything I was able to pick up on throughout the trailer.

You can follow along by watching the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WvbwZYV7W0Q

0:17 The pose Mewtwo goes into here seems to be part of his idle animation from Melee

0:19 This appears to be a new taunt, followed by Teleport. Notice the effect that starts the Teleport off and the sound it makes.

0:21 Mewtwo's Jab from Melee returns, but now with an added finisher

0:23 Mewtwo's Dash attack returns as well, looking a bit more nicely animated

0:24 Mewtwo disappears, but due to lacking any sort of starting or ending effect, I reckon this is his air dodge ala Palutena and Rosalina. It might look like he double jumps into what seems to be his nair, but he actually lands. Previous jump height status unknown. Nair seems to have some nasty end lag to it.

0:28 Mewtwo's old hanging on the edge animation is back. Down Air is back and it's QUICK! This almost looks Brawl Falco Dair quick, though I might be a little over optimistic.

0:30 Mewtwo's Old Up Throw, Back Air, and previous ridiculous jump height are all back

0:34 Old Down Smash is back. No visual que that it hits behind mewtwo, though if this darkness effect is the moves's range, that's a much welcomed buff.

0:35 Shadow Ball still whirls and has a new fully charged sound effect. You can hear Mewtwo's voice as he throws the attack, so it looks like his Melee voice is back

0:36 Teleport is back with a new sound effect. Doesn't seem to have a hitbox

0:38 Confusion is back and is either very quick now or jump cancellable. I'm not sure what its previous capacity for interrupting attacks use to be but it stocks Charizards recovery and sends him into a tumble animation. IIRC, you can't tech a tumble, so this could lead to some jab lock style follow ups if you catch your opponent in midair

0:39 Disable is back and makes Mewtwo's eyes green for a second (ruined forever!)

0:42 Mewtwo's Confusion shows off its priority again stopping Greninja's counter. It does seem to just be much faster now since he can swipe with a beamsword right after

0:44 Old F-throw is back, Shadow Balls included.

0:46 This costume seems to be based off of the Shadow Lugia from Pokemon XD gale of darkness. D-Throw has a hitbox that hits other characters like Mario and Luigi's Back Throw. I doubt that the D-throw -> U Smash string featured here is a guaranteed combo, but it looks like at lower percents (since they were apparently at high percents here) can set up some basic combos and strings

0:51 Confusion reflects projectiles properly!

0:53 We get a quick glance at Mewtwo's run speed here. It seems to be somewhere from average to fast

0:54 Shiny coloration is back

0:55 Psystrike!

1:01 Another new taunt

So overall, what's been found is Mewtwo has his Melee moveset and recovery preserved almost completely with very likely some minor tweaks to attack speed, damage, and knockback. I know hearing that is going to concern a lot of you about how good Mewtwo will be in Smash 4, but this isn't terrible by any means. Ness has all of his moves from Melee and he's top tier in Smash 4. I think what will make or break Mewtwo will be some simple stuff like weight, frame data, whether or not his Dthrow leads into combos, and whether or not Uthrow keeps its outstanding kill potential from Melee.

Hope this made for an interesting read for some of you.



One thing, I don't think Mewtwo lands after the Air Dodge, simply because at that height there would be Air Dodge landing lag. It does look like he lands in the video, but if that is so then Mewtwo has 0 Air Dodge landing lag which is incredibly OP.

Also the sound heard when he shoots the Shadow Ball isn't his voice, it's a sound effect from the ball itself.





Too bad Confusion doesn't give him that extra little jump anymore. I always used it to fool opponents who were waiting for me to touch the ground :troll:
It sort of does, if you notice in the video Mewtwo hovers while doing the move (he doesn't fall). So you can still use it to trick people in that same way.
 
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Aeon Lupin

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Is it just me or is Mewtwo actually as big as Charizard? (Tail included.) Doesn't that seem big.. and just the right size? Or was he always that size? He didn't seem that big in Melee.. not that I looked at the size difference that close.. he looks heavier too.
Well, according to the official game dex, Mewtwo is in fact taller and heavier than Charizard. It's the anime that perceived them differently.
 

godogod

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I have this weird feeling that Mewtwo will be higher tier. Seems like every other move has been buffed significantly. I don't like this.. Gonna be bandwagoners.. know what I"m saying?
 

Sonsa

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Catching Shiny Mewtwo.png

Green Mewtwo also confirmed, this is his shiny color. But yeah! Overall he looks awesome, glad they didn't change his awesome moveset much, they just powered it up like PM.

Here's a few things I noticed though:

-His spike (d-air) seems to come out a lot quicker.

-I think Down Smash has less endlag!

-Side-B seems like it has some pretty nice priority!

-I know they can manipulate the game to make the trailers pretty but Dr. Mario definitely wasn't steaming from high damage (I didnt see Lil Mac steam either, but he was so busy getting hit I dont think there was time to see) but Up Smash killed em both super quick and easy. Also opponents can't fall out of it as easily, once theyre caught theyre sucked in for the whole punishment pretty much which is great.
 
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Chiroz

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Green Mewtwo also confirmed, this is his shiny color. But yeah! Overall he looks awesome, glad they didn't change his awesome moveset much, they just powered it up like PM.

Here's a few things I noticed though:

-His spike (d-air) seems to come out a lot quicker.

-I think Down Smash has less endlag!

-Side-B seems like it has some pretty nice priority!

-I know they can manipulate the game to make the trailers pretty but Dr. Mario definitely wasn't steaming from high damage (I didnt see Lil Mac steam either, but he was so busy getting hit I dont think there was time to see) but Up Smash killed em both super quick and easy. Also opponents can't fall out of it as easily, once theyre caught theyre sucked in for the whole punishment pretty much which is great.

All of these are true. I doubt down-throw to Up-Smash actually combos but it's nice to see Up-Smash kill!

I think this "green" costume is more of a teal (which makes it look like it's shiny color). It's not Melee's Green palette, and to be honest this teal palette is most probably replacing the green palette from Melee. But still it isn't technically his green palette.
 

Sonsa

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All of these are true. I doubt down-throw to Up-Smash actually combos but it's nice to see Up-Smash kill!

I think this "green" costume is more of a teal (which makes it look like it's shiny color). It's not Melee's Green palette, and to be honest this teal palette is most probably replacing the green palette from Melee. But still it isn't technically his green palette.
Mhm! Well it probably works at lower percents at least, and I bet side-b into up-smash still works too. And hey, we actually havent seen up-tilt, but perhaps you could end a juggle with a strong up-smash!
As for the green costume, it may not be the exact same shade as it was in Melee, but I'm pretty sure it's green. Mewtwo's blue costume has changed to, actually having more of a contrast, while his orange is also a bit more contrasted, but only a little. I'm pretty sure this is Mewtwo's green/shiny color and would be surprised if he had another "greener" one.
 

Chiroz

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Mhm! Well it probably works at lower percents at least, and I bet side-b into up-smash still works too. And hey, we actually havent seen up-tilt, but perhaps you could end a juggle with a strong up-smash!
As for the green costume, it may not be the exact same shade as it was in Melee, but I'm pretty sure it's green. Mewtwo's blue costume has changed to, actually having more of a contrast, while his orange is also a bit more contrasted, but only a little. I'm pretty sure this is Mewtwo's green/shiny color and would be surprised if he had another "greener" one.
Yea, I'd be surprised too if he has another green palette, but this isn't his Melee green palette either (I mean not like the orange one which is pretty spot on Melee).

We now know 5 of the 8 Mewtwo colors (possible 6 if this Dark Blueish Purple color isn't his blue color) and it's an extremely safe bet that he will have a yellow palette as everyone in the game has a yellow palette. The only thing he is missing is a "light" palette, which about 80% of the cast has. I am betting he will have a sort of light grayish palette which will be his "light" palette.

So in conclusion if the dark blueish purple palette is his new blue palette then there's only space for 1 last color scheme in my opinion.
 
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KaptenFullkorn

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Didnt know if i wanted him to keep the old melleemoveset or get a revamped one, switched from mewtwo as a main in mellee pretty fast.. But dang this trailer really got my hype up, he looks hellafun to try out at least! Even lucas looked fun, even if its OT :)
 

Mikkelmann

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His move set looks pretty good I enjoyed the melee move set as a move set even if it was not as good hopefully it's buffed in knock back and damage wise. My only problem I have with it is that he looks pretty stiff and slow but I may be wrong.
 

Diddy Kong

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Mewtwo looking so stiff was a concern for me as well. He looks a little bit faster than in Melee, but he still won't be exactly a fast character. At the very least, am expecting him to be middle weight now, hopefully surpassing Lucario in weight, as he won't surpass Charizard most likely.

And I hope that both Disable and Confusion will be usable this time on. I'd much rather see them replaced however... There is hope for Customs doing that however, but I doubt it.
 

TaichiYaegashi

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His move set looks pretty good I enjoyed the melee move set as a move set even if it was not as good hopefully it's buffed in knock back and damage wise. My only problem I have with it is that he looks pretty stiff and slow but I may be wrong.
He doesn't look stiff at all to me but that's opinions for ya.


Anyways, I at first only wanted a few of Mewtwo's Melee moves to stick but after seeing that they seem to have gone a PM esque route with his Melee moveset...I'm completely ok with this.
 
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