An Open Letter To The Smash 4 Player

[Tito Maas]

The OP seems to criticize a lot of stuff. I think this thread would be enhanced if OP offered alternatives or the "proper" way to do the things he tells you not to do.

 

[Senko Zero]

Sometimes the truth is the hardest pill to swallow. It might be overbearing and maybe even a bit offensive, but it can also be the best way to be told something flat out.

The people who really want to get better and are stuck might come across this thread and be initially mad but reading it again might find the advice and post holds true and will go on to better.

The people who don't and think they got everything will just pass on and remain going 0-2 at their local tournament.

I remember way back in my early Melee days (I want to say early '06), me and two friends went to a big smash fest at a local player's house. One of them played Peach at the time and upon playing him other guys would say "you play really weird", as he focused more on spacing and zoning as opposed to the adrenaline filled rushdown that they were doing.

Most of those guys went 0-2. My friend ended up winning the tournament in a Peach ditto.

That might not really apply for smash 4, but it just made me think of it.

The opening post is pretty solid and well written. Kudos.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

The play for show applies to every Falcon player in every smash game.

Wizzrobe is the only Falcon who actually plays to win unstead of trying to style all the time.

 

[Big-Cat]

The OP seems to criticize a lot of stuff. I think this thread would be enhanced if OP offered alternatives or the "proper" way to do the things he tells you not to do.

Except I did.

 

[Baby_Sneak]

How to practice?
Lvl 3 CPU on x time. Bang.

 

[|RK|]

Great advice; thanks!

I'm still going to try for flash, though

 

[Big-Cat]

NO FLASH!

This post should be very helpful for all of us.
http://www.dustloop.com/forums/inde.../philosophy-of-analyzing-losses-by-nage-r526/

 

[Gawain]

lol, you just told people to take more risks and not play so safe (and to not pick sheik) and then you criticized people for trying to play showy and not playing to win? You're contradicting yourself with those statements.

People don't just pick sheik cause she's safe. She gets some of the best rewards off of confirms and has the most meaningful confirm moves in the game. These things along with safety are what make her the best, not just one of them. Whether people start throwing out strong moves randomly or not is not going to change the amount of sheik players there are. Only changes in patches will.

I'll be honest, I very much dislike these "meta" talks. The whole concept of "meta" just drives me up the wall. I'm sick of hearing about it, people just play differently, there is no all encompassing concept that controls how people are playing.

 

[Nobie]

lol, you just told people to take more risks and not play so safe (and to not pick sheik) and then you criticized people for trying to play showy and not playing to win? You're contradicting yourself with those statements.

People don't just pick sheik cause she's safe. She gets some of the best rewards off of confirms and has the most meaningful confirm moves in the game. These things along with safety are what make her the best, not just one of them. Whether people start throwing out strong moves randomly or not is not going to change the amount of sheik players there are. Only changes in patches will.

I'll be honest, I very much dislike these "meta" talks. The whole concept of "meta" just drives me up the wall. I'm sick of hearing about it, people just play differently, there is no all encompassing concept that controls how people are playing.

You've actually inadvertently supported @ Big-Cat 's point. You just set up a dichotomy where playing safe = playing to win, and playing risky = playing showy. What Kuma is arguing I think is that part of playing to win is knowing when to take risks, especially when your character is high risk/high reward. Sometimes the smartest thing to do in a competition is the "dumbest" thing possible if it isn't expected.

In other words, not enough Smashers be throwin out Ume Shoryus.

 

[Big-Cat]

The most dangerous opponent for a master to fight is a beginner. You don't know what he's going to do.

 

[ChaikaBestGirl]

Most of the people who fit all of those I'd say don't really visit Smashboards, although there are many people like this that I know, I met a Ganondorf main who tries to gimp people way off the stage. He throws away stocks like dollar bills at the strip club doing that.

 

[Powerman293]

I really need to play much better. I run in and use shield a lot, so I fit into both of your archetypes lol.

 

[Big-Cat]

Most of the people who fit all of those I'd say don't really visit Smashboards, although there are many people like this that I know, I met a Ganondorf main who tries to gimp people way off the stage. He throws away stocks like dollar bills at the strip club doing that.

I wouldn't have made this post if it were not for all the self defeating posters I see on here.

 

[ChaikaBestGirl]

I wouldn't have made this post if it were not for all the self defeating posters I see on here.

that's true also, I can name a few people here who fit that description perfectly

 

[WavEfighting]

As a competitive Mewtwo main, I've gotten a lot of flak just for playing him at tourneys. However I believe what the Op saying about how players don't take enough risks is completely true. If people don't start taking on harder challenges (like picking up a main or even alt that isn't well respected) we'll see a very slow evolution on our meta as players just won't know the potential that can be reached by such a wide cast of characters.

 

[Wintropy]

Yeah, I can definitely respect that I fall prey to a few of these criteria. Good post, very valuable service for the community!

 

[LightLV]

You don't take risks.
This is mostly aimed at the mid level. A lot of players at this level and below will think the only approaching option in Smash 4 is jump ins, but then you own't do that because it's unsafe on shield. There's a reason why, there's a lot of rewards and spacing options with it, so there naturally has to be a balance with the risk. That aside, it doesn't hurt to take the risk sometimes to toss out a powerful attack as a hard read. It's high risk, high reward. You have to learn how to manage risks and just go “here goes nothing”.

If you don't take risks, we're just going to have 90% of our matches on Smashville STILL and everyone picks Sheik because she's the safest character in the game.

Haha, nope.

This is not only the difference between a good/bad player, but a viable/unviable character. You don't take risks because risky players get baited and punished. Smash 4's slanted preference for defense only make this exponentially worse.

The meta isn't leaning towards risky characters because they don't win matches.

You don't know how to practice.
This isn't quite anyone's fault. In other fighting games, practice is not that hard to set up. Things like random block, working on combos, resets, etc. aren't options we have available in Smash. Smash is very bare bones with its training mode, but you can still practice.

You can study up on how DI works (it's a lot less complex than you think), what is a character's strength and weaknesses, and more. One thing I found extremely helpful was seeing that every character is designed to be proficient in two out of three ranges – close, mid, and long. Exceptions may exist here and there, but this is generally the case. With that in mind, you can try to exploit that hole in their range options. This is where CPU's can be helpful, but their capacity is limited.

True, this one really isn't the fault of the players. Smash's training mode is probably the worst in gaming, hands down. It omits mecahnics, lies to you, and gives you no control over the CPU opponent. It's good for movement tech, and that's about it. Without another human you really can't practice well, and even then the extent of your training will only be as good as your opponent's skill level.

There ARE ways to practice and get better at this game without other humans, but matchup experience is pretty much impossible to obtain while fighting CPUs, in any game.

You care more about execution than strategy.
This is human nature really. You gravitate to the flashy stuff sooner than the boring and practical. Things like perfect pivot are very limited in their practical usage. You can get cool combos with them, but the chance of pulling them off at high level is unlikely. It's not about who can do the coolest stuff, it's about who uses their stuff the best.

Nobody cares about perfect pivot. It would have practical use if its execution barrier wasn't so ridiculously high, even for fighting game standards. Nothing in Melee was as difficult to consistently pull off as PPivot.

You play for show, not to win.
Maybe it's the whole talk of eSports and sponsors, and maybe a little bit of Melee's influence, but for the love of God do what you have to win. This is a game, not a show. If you don't need to win using a bunch of rushdown then don't do it. If you need to, go ahead. Don't go for style. If you get style, that's great and is definitely a crowd pleaser, but don't go looking for it.

This sounds like a point in defense of campy players, yet seems to be at odds with your first point, which seems to encourage people to take risks.

Rushdown is not a matter of style, it's just exactly what it sounds like. In games that don't trivialize defense like this one does, keeping heavy pressure on your opponent is a great way to break them down and keep the match in your favor.

 

[Illuminose]

Nobody cares about perfect pivot. It would have practical use if its execution barrier wasn't so ridiculously high, even for fighting game standards. Nothing in Melee was as difficult to consistently pull off as PPivot.

No, people just don't care enough to practice it. Perfect pivoting isn't even hard if you have practice, and you have got to be kidding if you think it's harder than doing things like invincible ledge dash or even like consistently wavelanding on platforms, multishines, chaining waveshines, etc.

 

[LightLV]

No, people just don't care enough to practice it. Perfect pivoting isn't even hard if you have practice, and you have got to be kidding if you think it's harder than doing things like invincible ledge dash or even like consistently wavelanding on platforms, multishines, chaining waveshines, etc.

I do think it's harder than wavedashing. Wavedash is a simple set of digital inputs, you jump, then you airdodge, the difficult part is timing. And to anyone who's played a fighting game with combos/links before, even the most precise timings can be made easier with muscle memory. OFC this counts for perfect pivot as well but the reason I say it's harder is because we're no longer talking digital inputs anymore.

Most importantly though, PP isn't new, and does not quite provide the level of utility that wavedashing does for its execution, which is why i doubt it's ever going to catch on outside of a few specific maneuvers. It even requires extra input to control the direction you end at. I could be wrong about it though, but i doubt it.

 

[David Viran]

Haha, nope.

This is not only the difference between a good/bad player, but a viable/unviable character. You don't take risks because risky players get baited and punished. Smash 4's slanted preference for defense only make this exponentially worse.

The meta isn't leaning towards risky characters because they don't win matches.

Zss is by far the riskiest, in terms of how she plays, perceived top tier and she has a good amount of representation at high level.

 

[LightLV]

Zss is by far the riskiest, in terms of how she plays, perceived top tier and she has a good amount of representation at high level.

ZSS is a completely different type of risky. She's still one of the safest characters in the game, wiffing an UpB (that kills at absurdly low % mind you) doesn't make her risky when she has kill moves and Zair with like, no landing lag at all.

 

[David Viran]

ZSS is a completely different type of risky. She's still one of the safest characters in the game, wiffing an UpB (that kills at absurdly low % mind you) doesn't make her risky when she has kill moves and Zair with like, no landing lag at all.

All those moves don't beat sheild. Grab does and is risky as hell. She's a high risk high reward character.

 

[LightLV]

...what moves DO beat shield, if i may ask? Shield Breaker doesn't even beat shields on this game...

Her grab and UpB make her a risky character, when all her other moves are super fast, essentially lagless, with great range, and she has other kill moves at her disposal?

 

[David Viran]

Screwing up flip jump will get you a hard punish or just straight kill you. She's a risk based character because she HAS to go for grabs or you can just hold sheild.

 

[CptPuff]

This is so true it hurts. Two days ago at a weekly, we had two GREAT players show, and I got the honor to play one of them. With Sm4sh, I do aspire to be the best, but it's a little disheartening realizing that I have all those problems you mentioned - lack of patience, going for the rush-down when I shouldn't, not waiting for momentum - and I only realized that when playing those top-tier players. I suppose next I just have to learn how to mixup and learn the opponent, as those guys are just on another level, due to being apart from all the problems mentioned here.

 

[DavemanCozy]

The biggest problem I have found at the tournaments I've been to in Toronto has been whiny children. They come to tournaments expecting to win when the reality is they put little to no time practicing beyond playing For Glory, and the salt coming from them is usually just excuses on why they lost.

I am one of the few players in Ontario who skipped over Brawl and came straight from playing Melee, which is a damn hard game, you need tons of time to just move properly with your character. And the fact is Smash4 is an easier game to play and get into, yet it's the one game where I find the most impatient people to start winning money.

Thanks on the post, you really hit the nail in the head: if you all want to be good, you need to put time into learning and practicing, discuss the game with your fellow peers and listen, have an attitude to grow and learn, and most of all realize that getting good doesn't happen overnight.

 

[PerryEllis]

They play to win, not to be honorable.

Mega Man players spam projectiles all day; as does Link, Robin, Samus, etc.

Counter move characters will finish with a B which is lame.

Characters like Mario, Ness, DK will use vanilla spam moves like till an auto percentage is met.

These lame players are awful to play against. There isn't excitement. Just a slow monotonous grind for those brainless players desperately trying to get a win.

 

[FallenHero]

The play for show applies to every Falcon player in every smash game.

Wizzrobe is the only Falcon who actually plays to win unstead of trying to style all the time.

Not really, it is just that some of the things Captain Falcon does that is considered stylish is actually a legit way to play and win with Falcon. Getting a hard read to get a kill with a knee is as stylish as it is a smart move to do. Besides, sometimes you just gotta play for the people

 

[Avokha]

They play to win, not to be honorable.

Mega Man players spam projectiles all day; as does Link, Robin, Samus, etc.

Counter move characters will finish with a B which is lame.

Characters like Mario, Ness, DK will use vanilla spam moves like till an auto percentage is met.

These lame players are awful to play against. There isn't excitement. Just a slow monotonous grind for those brainless players desperately trying to get a win.

If someone spams an attack and wins against you, it's 100% your own fault.
Spamming projectiles? Jump over them. Afterall, that player is so brainless they wont know what to do, right?
Spamming counters? Charge smash attacks or to be safe grab and throw them, they wont know what to do since their strategy is brainless.
Up-B moves on said characters aren't even all that powerful or accurate (except maybe Ness when he is actually trying to hit YOU with the PK Thunder whilst your offstage) so frankly those moves should be the least of your concerns.

Everyone wants to improve with their character and play them optimally. Thus, every single battle, whether it be casually on For Glory or at a high stakes national tournament, ought to be treated as a learning experience to improve and as a means to connect to other players. Holding such negative opinions about certain characters is well within your rights, but those opinions aren't going to make your game more enjoyable nor will it help you improve. And people who play the characters you dislike are much less likely to enjoy playing you either (unless they enjoy indulging in the salt of others (which is totally fine IMO ))

 

[Gnarkill Evan]

Smash 4 some how has both an truly amazing community and at the same time an absolutely toxic community.

 

[Big-Cat]

Wow, where did that bump come from?

They play to win, not to be honorable.

Mega Man players spam projectiles all day; as does Link, Robin, Samus, etc.

Counter move characters will finish with a B which is lame.

Characters like Mario, Ness, DK will use vanilla spam moves like till an auto percentage is met.

These lame players are awful to play against. There isn't excitement. Just a slow monotonous grind for those brainless players desperately trying to get a win.

Zoning requires more strategy than you think. One thing is that the rhythm for projectile spamming must always change if you want to win.

Everything in this game has a way out. By that I mean every option in this game has a weakness. Counters are left open on whiff and can be grabbed. Projectiles can be dodged or perfect shield'd.

It's no one's fault but your own if you don't adapt.

 

[DunnoBro]

Smash 4 some how has both an truly amazing community and at the same time an absolutely toxic community.

"I'll take the human race for 7.3 billion, Alex."

 

[x45x]

I just shared this with my communities FB page. A lot of my players are struggling with their character choices and how to get past the mid-level. And it can be hard but i think this letter does a great job at getting what players need to hear out there. Remember Smash 4 is big. Soooo many people are getting into it and want to be good. For those of us that have been in smash and or the FGC for a while now, we know this stuff (always good to look it over again =D). But Not enough players hear what they need to hear, and even if they do they don't always download it. So thanks for the great read. I'll let you know what my players think of it <3.

 

[Peppermint1201]

I'd rather watch an esport than Sheik dittos.

What's the difference?

 

[Raijinken]

What's the difference?

Prize pool and variety, mostly.

At this point, I've lost spectator interest in the bigger Smash 4 scenes that I'm presently aware of, since my favored ruleset isn't run and the top skill are (quite understandably) playing a handful of characters that give them the perceived edge. Since I can't count on the community to swap to Customs, I'm banking on a balance patch to make things interesting to watch again. I see very little innovation in default Smash right now.

 

[Peppermint1201]

Prize pool and variety, mostly.

At this point, I've lost spectator interest in the bigger Smash 4 scenes that I'm presently aware of, since my favored ruleset isn't run and the top skill are (quite understandably) playing a handful of characters that give them the perceived edge. Since I can't count on the community to swap to Customs, I'm banking on a balance patch to make things interesting to watch again. I see very little innovation in default Smash right now.

For starters, to address what you said at the beginning, variety of play and the amount of money awarded to the winners doesn't define whether or not something is an eSport. Like it or not, Smash 4 is just as much of an esport as Dota, League, etc. As for the rest, I don't really understand where you're coming from. Sheik dittos are pretty fast-paced, and besides, how fast something is doesn't automatically decide how fun it is to watch. I'd rather watch a high-level Sheik ditto than a low-tier matchup between two lower-level players. Furthermore, customs aren't an automatic way to make Smash 4 more interesting. In fact, they raise more/other problems such as the way Villager can get almost absolute stage control for free for 15(?) seconds with Counter Timber, not to mention the fact that they throw the accessbility of Smash 4 out the window, basically squandering all hopes of it becoming a much larger eSport. Also, why are you acting like the top players are in the wrong for picking good characters? They aren't "perceiving" an edge, they HAVE an edge because they are using viable characters. When money is on the line or even when it isn't, playing to win is a necessity in any competitive setting.

 

[Speed Boost]

@ Big-Cat , How is any of this unique to Smash 4? In any competitive game the average players are average for a reason. They don't have as full an understanding of the game, techniques and strategies as the above average players and so on until you reach the highest level.

Posting a "get off my porch Smash 4 noobs" thread isn't going to change that. People will only get better if they have the drive and obsession to get better. When you have that drive you will seek out the knowledge you need to get better. That is why most of us are on Smashboards. To get that information.

If you have something to offer to help others get better, why cloak it in this superior toned rant? It's really off putting. There are plenty of threads on Smashboards where people are asking for help in specific ways that you could have responded to instead of this BS.

 

[FallenHero]

Prize pool and variety, mostly.

At this point, I've lost spectator interest in the bigger Smash 4 scenes that I'm presently aware of, since my favored ruleset isn't run and the top skill are (quite understandably) playing a handful of characters that give them the perceived edge. Since I can't count on the community to swap to Customs, I'm banking on a balance patch to make things interesting to watch again. I see very little innovation in default Smash right now.

Look man, I get that you like customs and all, but do you really have to bring it up all the time? Lately I've seen you in a lot of threads completely unrelated to customs and you bring it up anyways.

 

[PerryEllis]

It's no one's fault but your own if you don't adapt.

I'm not talking about putting fault on player's ability to adapt. I'm talking about those who manage to win through the means I had listed and how displeasing, shameful, and sad it is for players to resort to those methods to get a win.

 

[Big-Cat]

More like how sad it is they're able to get away with that while the other person is too stupid to figure out how to counter it.