Event - E3 Invitational 2014 Am I the only one truly disapointed?

[Phyr]

First before entering the post. I like the inclusions of the Mii (awesome types with cool movesets), and Pac-Man. I'm even ok with Smash 4 being a faster/more refined Brawl.

With what i'm not ok is with Sakurai being a Nintendotard even when the rest of the company has been doing an AWESOME E3 show with their new ideas for broadcasting news and awesome ideas for new titles. Let me explain.

Treehouse was REALLY AWESOME, constant live streaming of upcoming games. What other company has that? And with more and new anounces every day.

The digital event was brilliant, comical, and a bright idea. It looked like it was made by the fans, the stop motion mini films between anouncements were funny and everything was great.

Every Nintendo rep has gone down and talked with people, presented stuff, tried new stuff and tried to be with the crowd. Treehouse was a great aid for this.

The game featured more weakish rewarding play than in the tutorials. General feel being a new brawl. But even so i think it was good and they were fixing brawl issues. It might be a great game. In another good point, it would keep the melee scene/PM scene alive by still being 3 really diferent games.

Hell even the invitational idea was greatly done, and I hope they keep doing them in the future (but i don't have any hopes that these will be 1 v 1s or something like that, sadly. You can see the Pokemon tourneys with their odd ruleset (who has a standalone metagame on his own totally diferent from normal pokemon)). The show was refreshing, fun (although these final smashes, wow) and even the finals were great. There was a lot, and i mean a LOT of defensive playstyle, who got greatly rewarded. This is the bad news of being a Brawl like game again. And this is the first bad news, but there could be tweaking so i had hope. It was my most hyped event and it was not as expected, but ok. Really good objectively.

The problem i have is with sakurai handling of the situation. Not showing the new characters in the tourney when EVERYONE EXPECTED IT. Not making the game more bounds to combos when EVERYONE EXPECTED IT (even the trailers featuring chars have a few, cool, true combos in them). Not fixing Brawl /smash problems (char balance based in 1v1/FFA/items is varied, biased betatester power rankings, BAD ONLINE WHO IS NOT FIXED). Answering badly to people in the roundtable (omg, You are not a game designer? Your opinion means nothing -> THIS IS A FALACY COME ON) and still considering Smash a Party Game (what, seriously? after this?, he must be the kind who thinks that the one who plays better must win is bad cause the bad player can cry about they being bad... which idea is really stupid).

All in all i capted his message as: I'm the game creator, i'm the one who knows everything and i don't care about any of you at all. I know i am right and i'm not gonna do things like fans expect, EVEN WHEN THE REST OF NINTENDO DOES. Wtf.

Adding insult to injury, he is leaving tomorrow cause "he is busy". Seriously? Everyone is there at E3 attending people and working hard and you go cause "you are busy"?

I liked the Miis. I loved the figurines (yay pseudo pokemon for smash bro/assist system/team battles with NFC, lots of ideas). I loved everything, until half way the tourney. From there they just shatered my dreams and hopes. And it was almost all Sakurai's fault (and my own wishful inocence in false expectations).

You could say i'm almost depressed only from this. I have a big headache right now lol.

Is any one feeling like me?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I'll resay this again, these may have been pros, but they had no clue what the engine/moves etc. were like til they just picked it up. Combos aren't gonna show up on day 1 to a game people just picked up on the spot.

 

[Hong]

I liked everything but the Smash segment of e3.

A lot of GREAT reasons to be a Nintendo fan, and a lot of stuff I am looking forward to.

Smash 4 isn't a write off by any means. The game isn't in our hands, it's not the final build, etc. It is graphically beautiful. But mechanically, it is quite the bit of an upset. Hitstun and gravity need to be boosted at least 20% if I am going to buy this.

It's not like feedback will go unheard, so I say we give it some time.

 

[Searing_Sorrow]

After seeing the gameplay, you would be busy leaving immediately making serious tweaks to the game play too. More hit stun, increasing fox up smash kill power some( its been overnerfed and seems like his forward smash buffed, its weird unless no falco). Lowering Kirby's throw knock back. There were some moments where the combo finisher was activating in the first two hits. There is a reason the date was moved back, it was over ambitious to go for a summer release. I am OK with it as long as they acknowledge the mistake and try to fix it before release. Still have hope.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Usmash nerf for Fox was probably intentional.

He still had the best Usmash in Brawl by a long shot.

 

[GamerGuy09]

Why does everyone say "No Combos in Smash 4". When they are clearly still there. Just people need to know some chains and play in a more 1v1 setting where you can concentrate on timing.

The only thing I disliked was the delay, but that couldn't be avoided.

 

[Chibi-Chan]

Why does everyone say "No Combos in Smash 4". When they are clearly still there. Just people need to know some chains and play in a more 1v1 setting where you can concentrate on timing.

The only thing I disliked was the delay, but that couldn't be avoided.

I blame Hbox not being able to chain any aerial after Dthrow or Fthrow even at 0-10%. There's not a lot of dept to this... Too high knockback and too little hitstun- he tried his best to get that Uair/Nair and nothing.

That at least writes off Kirby's throw game (Couldn't see other matches perfectly). Granted, Uthrow was broken in Ring stage, killing at 60%.

 

[Searing_Sorrow]

I blame Hbox not being able to chain any aerial after Dthrow or Fthrow even at 0-10%. There's not a lot of dept to this... Too high knockback and too little hitstun- he tried his best to get that Uair/Nair and nothing.

That at least writes off Kirby's throw game (Couldn't see other matches perfectly). Granted, Uthrow was broken in Ring stage, killing at 60%.

Now that I think about it your right, and the up throw of Kirby's was also killing a lot sooner than seems it should. Maybe the knock back of it was messed up to where it was getting combo break knock back on his throws as well. It wasn't noticed for me till a Kirby up throw killed at 94% on zss once then didn't come close same match at 91%

 

[Ryuutakeshi]

And if he had stuck around you would be complaining that he was wasting time and not fixing the things that you feel need addressing. The man has time and again proven that he is dedicated to his craft. Lest we forget that Smash came about because Sakurai sacrificed his weekends for a game no one had high hopes for. Why is it such a bad thing that he wants to get back to work and get stuff done?

I have been increasingly frustrated with this fandom since the invitational ended and I saw the reactions. Yeah, I don't get the closed roundtable thing but that's hardly a nail in the coffin. But you interpretations of Sakurai's answers demonstrate, for lack of a better term, complete ignorance.

This is the man who is in charge of creating this game. He's the guy that knows the mechanics, the engine, and the plans for the future. Having random people challenge him that they in their infinite wisdom can help balance the game has got to be irritating. Did this random guy know anything about game design? Does he know the vision and the goals of the team? Sakurai has made it clear. This game that he is making is for a wide audience. Yes, he obviously wants to include us and seems to be bending over backwards to do so. This whole tournament proves that. But we are not the majority of smash players. Sakurai is not making this game just for us. He's making it for everyone.

Hell, we don't even have the final build. Sakurai made it quite clear that things could change. Why don't we, as tired as this line is, sit down, shut the **** up, and wait for the chance to put time and effort into the game before declaring it to be tripe. I'm shocked that after just one day some of these players are declaring the game a waste. Why? Because it's different? Because they changed things and now you have to learn the system over again? Give it a chance, for Arceus' sake.

Oh, and yeah, I think that the fact Sakurai puts in gimmicks, items, weird stages, and outright says all characters aren't balanced for 1v1 play PROVES that to him it's still a party game. Hasn't it been like that for... ever?

And don't get me started on the BS regarding the reaction to the grand finals...

Come on guys. Enough. Give the game a chance and see what happens. Give Sakurai a chance and see what happens. He's gone on record to say that people who post these kinds of threads are his least favorite gamers. Now how do you expect to get what you want if you're getting lumped into that group?

Oh, and before I forget, YES! If you don't know how game design works, then you have no business telling a game designer that he's doing his job wrong. I don't care how many hours you have in Melee. This isn't Melee, and Sakurai isn't going to stand there and have people tell him that they can do his job better.

End Rant

 

[GTZ]

I was very disappointed about the ending of the grand finals for the invitational for pros.. I though Hungrybox played a lot more like a pro, not running away like a little ***** with a faster character.. Yeah sure it's a skill to evade and the strategy that won, but running away from kirby to force a sudden death that is 75% in your favor just seems lame to me. I lost some respect for him as a player seeing that. I would've fought even if it meant losing, not run away jumping around like a scared child..

Sorry, I just think kirby was clearly at a speed disadvantage and still was played beuatifully by hungrybox, who should have won that last match.. I'm no fan of any pros, as I'd rather play and win myself, but it (the ending) just didn't sit right with me ..

also, where the bloody f**k is K.Rool.. C'mon people..

 

[Ryuutakeshi]

So... what about the 7.5 minutes before that bit where both played extremely well and were highly aggressive? It was a great match. And are we REALLY going to cheapen ZeRo's victory like this? He won, fair and square. As far as I can tell he was a good sport. He made a good impression on Nintendo. And he played a great game. Why must people try to cheapen that?

 

[Morbi]

I am actually having a perpetual headache myself; I was severely disappointed for the same reasons, albeit Sakurai was not the only disappointment. I thought the Digital Event was creative and cute, but it was certainly lackluster. I wasted the entire day, and I regret it. That was not supposed to happen. I was so very excited yesterday, I could not even sleep because I was so hyped. I suppose I will learn to never expect great things for no apparent reason.

 

[Aninymouse]

Usmash nerf for Fox was probably intentional.

He still had the best Usmash in Brawl by a long shot.

I agree. Fox's up smash is notoriously powerful. Only Pikachu and Peach seem to have such powerful uncharged smashes. But I didn't play Brawl much, so I don't know if those two were nerfed in Brawl or not.

 

[Interfere]

Initially, I must admit I am somewhat bummed that it isn't more like Melee as it is to Brawl, however, I am keeping in mind that this is not a polished build. Things can be improved and changed upon over time. The game isn't set to release for another 3 1/2+ months

While I do completely agree that Sakurai came off as ignorant during the roundtable, he does strike a point. The entire smash series was intended as a party game. While the competitive scene does make up for a portion of the game's playerbase, it is not it's entity. How he envisions the game is not the same as how a specific group envisions it.

Give the guy a chance to prove himself. He's shown to acknowledge the competitive scene with the 'For Glory' mode. I'm sure that that won't be the only thing he does to acknowledge the scene.

 

[Sobreviviente]

uh i love what i saw, for real.

 

[Minato Arisato]

So... what about the 7.5 minutes before that bit where both played extremely well and were highly aggressive? It was a great match. And are we REALLY going to cheapen ZeRo's victory like this? He won, fair and square. As far as I can tell he was a good sport. He made a good impression on Nintendo. And he played a great game. Why must people try to cheapen that?

My thoughts exactly.

 

[Scicky]

Well, I was disappointed in how Zero won, and how excessively he used the Final Smash, but his actual playing was skillful and intense, and I really enjoyed the invitational. I still like Brawl to a certain extent, so I can't really speak for Melee purists, but I'm looking forward to the game and can't wait to play it tomorrow, and it definitely looks like an improvement over brawl.

 

[Ryuutakeshi]

Well, I was disappointed in how Zero won, and how excessively he used the Final Smash,

If it wasn't him, it'd have been someone else. You use what you can. Besides, it allowed us to see just how Zamus' final smash works.

 

[insomniac19]

Yeah, I didn't think I would like the Mii at all but they look really interesting. Overall I don't feel very satisfied. I was expecting at least a few sure fire veterans like Captain Falcon, but all we got was a Mr. G&W cameo.

This E3 in general hasn't been terribly exciting. The best part for me was the invitational which was a lot of fun to watch. The newcomers look cool and all but at this point I haven't been truly excited to see any of them. I was honestly more excited to see Ike than I was any of the three newcomers revealed today. E3 would have been the perfect place to reveal characters like Mewtwo or Ridley, and I don't think everyone will be truly happy with Smash 4 until a character like them will be revealed. I.e a true fan favorite, worthy of being deemed a Nintendo all star within Smash.

Also yeah I agree with Sakurai's weirdness this E3. He should have revealed a character at the end of the tournament and the Pac Man reveal should have been a part of the Digital Event.

 

[nessokman]

Get the hell over yourself, sakurai is stressed bringing YOU a game that is worth playing.

He is busier than any of those developers, because he has one of nintendo's biggest an most prestigious series on his shoulders. You can't imagine the stress behind him working long hours trying please as many as possible while knowing at the same time you are disappointing others. Not to mention his trouble with His hands.

Him asking that stupid kid if he had designed a game was justified. That guy was arrogant, and thought that he could do sakurai's job better.He had his nose in the air acting superior to the developer! I almost wish sakurai could have played him and knocked him down about 30 notches.(no way he could beat sakurai with his 10 games max experience against a developer who plays every day)

Not everything can be perfect, we can't snap out fingers and have a perfect game. Wait can't complain, at least we're getting a new game.

People like you are the ones who make me doubt sakurai will make another smash.

 

[ChillerDuu]

Honestly, the kind of combos show in the character reveal was mostly for show and any real player wouldn't have let that happen.

I think what I was most disappointed about was were could see the best professional play as the players didn't have a lot of practice.
Honestly, I don't share these same issues. I'm not too worried about Sakurai's personal composure or the game itself probably because I expected a faster Brawl, which is all I need. And maybe some things are subject to change since it's not complete. Who knows. I don't hold the idea Brawl is synonymous with bad and Melee with good. I believe this will still be a great game.

But yeah, that's just my weigh on things.

 

[Mr.Showtime]

I'll resay this again, these may have been pros, but they had no clue what the engine/moves etc. were like til they just picked it up. Combos aren't gonna show up on day 1 to a game people just picked up on the spot.

You are definitely right for the most part and I thought the same thing. After watching the final match another 3-4 times I realized that it was not possible to follow-up after any grab. Many times HBox tried to follow up on a F-Throw, U-Throw, and D-Throw at low percentages. D1 even announced it at one point during a D-Throw that HBox couldn't follow up on an attack.

As for other combos, they might exist, but for grabs I absolutely could see no way anyone could follow up on them due to the knock-back. This also explains why people were dying from throws at really early percentages.

I feel like it is this way to prevent chain-grabbing and I could totally understand Sakurai's and other player's view on that. However, you could find a balance that prevents chain-grabbing and allows follow-ups.

 

[ToothiestAura]

The game is still a work in progress. There was some gameplay of the 3DS version (which should be further along in development) did it show more hitstun?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

You are definitely right for the most part and I thought the same thing. After watching the final match another 3-4 times I realized that it was not possible to follow-up after any grab. Many times HBox tried to follow up on a F-Throw, U-Throw, and D-Throw at low percentages. D1 even announced it at one point during a D-Throw that HBox couldn't follow up on an attack.

As for other combos, they might exist, but for grabs I absolutely could see no way anyone could follow up on them due to the knock-back. This also explains why people were dying from throws at really early percentages.

I feel like it is this way to prevent chain-grabbing and I could totally understand Sakurai's and other player's view on that. However, you could find a balance that prevents chain-grabbing and allows follow-ups.

I'm pretty sure the bolded is why the knockback was what it was.

Even then, Fox could still Dthrow to Fair, and some other hits off a grab did happen. Kirby though? I don't think he had a single follow-up fro that.

Which is fine, we've had characters with no combo potential off grabs before.

 

[GeNo-BreaKer]

I was extremely disappointed. This game removed a lot of mechanics, the knock back on grabs is way too much, and the reasoning behind it is the worst. Too make this game "for everyone", Sakurai takes away mobility options, doesn't let you follow up throws with attacks, and adds way too much knock back. Sakurai is clearly talking about casuals, but why does he need to lessen the game's competitive value? They didn't complain about Melee just like how the competitive players complained about Brawl. This was a real disappointment. And to think that I got a Wii U for Smash Bros... -_-

 

[Mr.Showtime]

I'm pretty sure the bolded is why the knockback was what it was.

Even then, Fox could still Dthrow to Fair, and some other hits off a grab did happen. Kirby though? I don't think he had a single follow-up fro that.

Which is fine, we've had characters with no combo potential off grabs before.

That is true, I had trouble seeing some actual grabs from other characters besides Zero Suit and Kirby. So far, those two characters were unable to pull anything off after a throw. I don't remember seeing when Fox was D-Throwing to F-Air. I'll try watching the tournament again tomorrow and going to play it on Saturday, so hopefully I'll be able to pull off some follow-ups after a grab. I also hope we can see more information on tomorrow from players who are at the events.

 

[TFerg]

I just cannot even remotely comprehend why Sakurai thinks adding ATs to the game will make it less fun for casual players.
Why not appeal to both styles of play?

I'm sorry, I really, really want to be excited for this game, but I just can't help but feel like it's Brawl 2.0. No ATs, extremely floaty, very low hitstun. Not my thing

 

[Weeman]

I honestly think that your stance against Sakurai is rather pretentious, like i can understand your dissapointment but in the grand scheme of things i feel that what he did was justified, i'll elaborate in the morning.

 

[chipz]

"EVERYONE EXPECTED IT" is not a valid criticism

 

[TFerg]

I honestly think that your stance against Sakurai is rather pretentious, like i can understand your dissapointment but in the grand scheme of things i feel that what he did was justified, i'll elaborate in the morning.

If you can give me one, just one situation where having advanced techniques in the game would make the game less fun for casual players, then I'll concede.

As it stands if someone doesn't care about competitive Smash, then it won't matter to them. The only thing that comes from removing ATs and fast gameplay is a very sad hardcore fan base (which, ultimately is what KEEPS your game growing year after year.)

 

[nessokman]

Bad post ignore

 

[Searing_Sorrow]

Lucas...nuff' said.

Lucas up smash was one of his worst moves, way to much lag. Could only be used on someone with bad air speed like snake or metaknight. Best up smashes were olimar, fox , pikachu, snake. Olimar's being essentially safe and highly spammable. Its also funny ganon's was in top as well.

 

[Scicky]

How can people complain about there being no AT's after a single days worth of gameplay? :/

 

[nessokman]

If you can give me one, just one situation where having advanced techniques in the game would make the game less fun for casual players, then I'll concede.

As it stands if someone doesn't care about competitive Smash, then it won't matter to them. The only thing that comes from removing ATs and fast gameplay is a very sad hardcore fan base (which, ultimately is what KEEPS your game growing year after year.)

How about other casuals learning the techniques on youtube and using them online, thus making online no fun for them.

What about if a competitive player gets bored like everyone does and gets online and clobbers the casuals. I have a few more if you'd like.

 

[Shroob]

So.... is it wrong to like what I've seen? Because I actually like how the game looks all around faster than Brawl.

 

[nessokman]

So.... is it wrong to like what I've seen? Because I actually like how the game looks all around faster than Brawl.

Yes, it is a complete act against god to like this new game.

You will be promptly be executed by a firing squad composed if melee's top players.Until then, you are guilty until proven innocent and have the right to scream and cry.

If you resist, you will be subjected to death by Wombo Combo

 

[Prince Longstrok]

Im not going to say I am hype, nor will I say I am unhyped.

But what I WILL say is this,

about 2/3rds of the way through I caught myself thinking "Man, id rather just skip ahead and see the possible character already"

I havent even seen real matches before, and after only n hour and a half-ish I was already naturally getting bored of watching it.
Maybe it was the f***fest of being 4 players and items, but.. I think its a sign of things to come if it took soo little time for me to be more curious about what was for dinner than seeing more gameplay.

Maybe ill be eating those words when I lose my job and friends from doing nothing but playing Smash 4 24/7 upon release, but, just giving my first impressions!

 

[Erimir]

As it stands if someone doesn't care about competitive Smash, then it won't matter to them. The only thing that comes from removing ATs and fast gameplay is a very sad hardcore fan base (which, ultimately is what KEEPS your game growing year after year.)

There are probably players who were good enough to be competitive players in Melee... but couldn't master the wavedash.

Some of the ATs that require a very fast, precise sequence of inputs over and over aren't likely to matter to completely casual players. But they may shut players out of the competitive scene.

Personally, the thing that appeals to me about Smash is that unlike a lot of games (Soul Calibur, Street Fighter, whatever), you don't have to master sequences of inputs to do the moves... you have to master when to use your moves and how to combine them. Except with wavedashing added to Melee, that's no longer true at all. Techniques like wavedashing might enable some things, but they also make it no longer a game of simple inputs.

Of course not all ATs require the same kinds of inputs.

Anyway, it's silly to complain about the lack of ATs so far, considering that wavedashing wasn't even discovered until long after Melee's release.

about 2/3rds of the way through I caught myself thinking "Man, id rather just skip ahead and see the possible character already"

I havent even seen real matches before, and after only n hour and a half-ish I was already naturally getting bored of watching it.
Maybe it was the f***fest of being 4 players and items, but.. I think its a sign of things to come if it took soo little time for me to be more curious about what was for dinner than seeing more gameplay.

I have to say that the final match with no items, on a neutral stage, was definitely the most exciting to watch.

The four player matches were too chaotic to be as interesting to watch.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

How can people complain about there being no AT's after a single days worth of gameplay? :/

They can't do old ATs, thats why.

 

[Toph_87]

The only thing I'm salty about is the lack of DK. Hes my fav character and got no love. I will main him in Smash 4 and wreck people out of spite. Other than that, I enjoyed everything from the conference including the Invitational