Alternate Costumes CONFIRMED

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

Of course not newbie. But I feel that you haven't been around when specific conversations have occurred. The TL example, in which the TL in the Spirit Tracks stage was considered to have confirmed that he won't be playable, but Sakurai surprised ppl by bringing him back was the best example I could think of bout Sakurai's surprises as far as character-related stuff goes without mentioning the obvious WFT thing. And before you say something like I was part of the ppl being tricked to that... No, just no, as I just watched the topic from the sidelines.

Occam's Razor - the principle in philosophy and science that assumptions introduced to explain a thing must not be multiplied beyond necessity, and hence the simplest of several hypotheses is always the best in accounting for unexplained facts.

 

[Jumpman84]

They need to bring back Nana as the lead Ice Climber costume from Melee.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

They need to bring back Nana as the lead Ice Climber costume from Melee.

Couldn't you do that in Brawl too?

 

[StupendousMike]

Couldn't you do that in Brawl too?

You could. Female characters you can control in Brawl are Peach, Zelda/Sheik, Samus, Nana and, if you're being generous, Jigglypuff. I mentioned a few pages ago that it genuinely concerns me that Smash finally added another girl but will give you the option to make he NOT a girl. I hope now more than ever that Dixie and Palutena are in this game.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

Indeed you could have Nana as the lead Ice Climber in Brawl as well, but the images for their palettes in Brawl do not swap the places of Popo and Nana, unlike their palette images in Melee. You can only tell which Ice Climber leads in Brawl by trying the palette swap out and see for yourself.

 

[PlayerOneTyler]

Dry bowser is not a seperate character from bowser, be IS bowser but just dead. and technically male fit trainer is a seperate character from female, because they are not the same person

That's like saying male and female Villager aren't the same person. What I'm saying is their entity is the same, but their gender can be influenced by the player. As for Dry Bowser, I just assumed because I've never played any of his games, and he's separate from Bowser in Mario Kart Wii.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

You could. Female characters you can control in Brawl are Peach, Zelda/Sheik, Samus, Nana and, if you're being generous, Jigglypuff.

Ivysaur is considered Female as well.

 

[8-peacock-8]

That's like saying male and female Villager aren't the same person. What I'm saying is their entity is the same, but their gender can be influenced by the player. As for Dry Bowser, I just assumed because I've never played any of his games, and he's separate from Bowser in Mario Kart Wii.

The birth of Dry Bowser and Death of Bowser: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=C2QfKpWaVR4#t=209

 

[SonicMario]

I'm not saying that all the characters will have one. But I put up a hypothetical list if every character that's currently confirmed got a Alternate Costume

Pit: Dark Pit
Bowser: Dry Bowser
Pikachu: Raichu? Shiny Pikachu?
Fox: Star Fox Assault Costume
Kirby: I got nothing xP The Multiple Kirby colors are already there. Only possibility is possibly Waddle/Bandana Dee but then you'd have to have the Copy powers also on a Waddle Dee model. Wouldn't that kinda mean twice the work it is normally for copy powers?
Samus: Metroid Prime and/or Super Metroid suits
Link: Ocarina of Time Link?
DK: Funky Kong
Mario: Dr. Mario
Mega Man: Proto Man
Villager: Female Villager
Olimar: Louie and/or any of the new Pikmin 3 characters
Luigi: Mr. L I guess?
Peach: Daisy and/or Rosalina (As in more then just color swap)
Toon Link: Recolored to look like classic link. The Link from games like A Link to the Past
Sonic: Classic Sonic and/or Metal Sonic and/or Shadow recolors

There's some that are alot more likely then others. But this is all just hypothetical

 

[KingofPhantoms]

Eh? Why is Brawl's Ivysaur considered to be a female?

 

[Curious Villager]

Eh? Why is Brawl's Ivysaur considered to be a female?

I believe it has something to do with the Japanese version having Ivysaur with a female voice instead of the male voice it has in other versions.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

I believe it has something to do with the Japanese version having Ivysaur with a female voice instead of the male voice it has in other versions.

Thanks for the info.

So Brawl technically has 6 female playable characters then. (not counting ZSS and Sheik)

 

[Vintage Creep]

Eh? Why is Brawl's Ivysaur considered to be a female?

Because people want girls in Smash Bros. so badly that they're willing to count a green quadruped lizard with a giant flower on its back as such.

 

[NitrusVirus]

The pessimist in me says its another special "Wario" case of which the other avatar-esque characters might benefit from as well. The optimist in me is currently tied up in my pessismist's basement.

 

[NitrusVirus]

I believe it has something to do with the Japanese version having Ivysaur with a female voice instead of the male voice it has in other versions.

If thats the case then Mewtwo would be female too. ****ing japanese VAs.

 

[Terrazi Terrajin]

Inb4 this is the /only/ alt costume in the entire game.

 

[Altais]

Until more alternate costumes are revealed, I am going to assume this is just a special case.

 

[fogbadge]

If thats the case then Mewtwo would be female too. ****ing japanese VAs.

mewtwo is genderless

 

[PikaJew]

Damn people sure like to get carried away fast.

Still don't understand the point of changing the costume is still keeping the entity of that character.
Wii Fit Trainer is still Wii Fit Trainer if there is or isn't a **** involved.
Pokemon Trainer and Villager are the same.
Everyone else are iconic characters.
Wario was still Wario.

These costumes only work for the iconic characters if it's literally a costume change.
As soon as the models change and voices change they become new characters.

Pikachu into Raichu is ********.
Peach into Daisy is ******** if they change the jewels and the voice. (she already had a Daisy colour scheme in Brawl. why the **** would anyone want to play as Daisy anyways?)
Kirby as Yarn Kirby is ********.
Sonic into Shadow is ********.
Donkey Kong as Donkey Kong Jr. or Funky Kong is ********.

These aren't simple costume changes.
They are god damn character changes.
And if you wanted to add a new character why the **** would you put it in a god damned colour swap inside another character?

 

[Sarki Soliloquy]

I believe it has something to do with the Japanese version having Ivysaur with a female voice instead of the male voice it has in other versions.

Toon Link, Pikachu, Jigglypuff, the Pokemon Trainer, Squirtle, Kirby, both Ice Climbers, Pit, Ness, and Lucas all have female voice actors in either English or Japanese. Suppose that takes all them as females for the count.

Anyways, I'm loving how Male Wii Fit Trainer looks. I'm guessing since the Wii Fit Trainer and the Villager are both characters of indiscriminate identity, we'll be seeing interchangeable genders for them. Also, for Villager, I hope we get face, clothing, and hair changes and not just recolors. Anyone who's played Animal Crossing knows that you can't just have a No. 1 shirt and recolor it.

 

[Curious Villager]

Toon Link, Pikachu, Jigglypuff, the Pokemon Trainer, Squirtle, Kirby, both Ice Climbers, Pit, Ness, and Lucas all have female voice actors in either English or Japanese. Suppose that takes all them as females for the count.

Thank you for completely missing the point good sir.

Not that I was even trying to justify Ivysaur in being a female character in the first place, but why others think it is.

 

[Aurora Jenny]

I'm not saying that all the characters will have one. But I put up a hypothetical list if every character that's currently confirmed got a Alternate Costume

Pit: Dark Pit
Bowser: Dry Bowser
Pikachu: Raichu? Shiny Pikachu?
Fox: Star Fox Assault Costume
Kirby: I got nothing xP The Multiple Kirby colors are already there. Only possibility is possibly Waddle/Bandana Dee but then you'd have to have the Copy powers also on a Waddle Dee model. Wouldn't that kinda mean twice the work it is normally for copy powers?
Samus: Metroid Prime and/or Super Metroid suits
Link: Ocarina of Time Link?
DK: Funky Kong
Mario: Dr. Mario
Mega Man: Proto Man
Villager: Female Villager
Olimar: Louie and/or any of the new Pikmin 3 characters
Luigi: Mr. L I guess?
Peach: Daisy and/or Rosalina (As in more then just color swap)
Toon Link: Recolored to look like classic link. The Link from games like A Link to the Past
Sonic: Classic Sonic and/or Metal Sonic and/or Shadow recolors

There's some that are alot more likely then others. But this is all just hypothetical

Wow. Hypothetical? Mind if I cut in here and point out flaws? I'll go with the ones I have disagreements with to keep it short.

Pit: I unfortunately don't know enough about Uprising due to being a Southpaw which makes it hard for me to play this game effectively, but it seems to me that he would have stats that make him become a Falco. I.E. Hitting harder, shorter but more powerful combos, so I don't know. This one is opinion based on what I hear so feel free to discount this.
Samus: Yeah, I can see this. If they can go so far as to make a male WFT this time, they can make each of the suits rather than just recolors in the themes of said suits.
Link: Oh this one I have trouble with. I would say they can't really use the different outfits because of the specialized tool appearances in each design from game to game. That may just be me overthinking it though. So can't discount this completely.
DK: Funky Kong? Yeah, I can buy this and he's got plenty of outfits over the games with a similar build.. though given his personality and interests, I would think this guy would have a completely different repertoire. Dude is a surfer and tinkerer, considering his planes and homemade weaponry.
Mario: Not a chance. Reducing Dr. Mario to the same stats as regular Mario would cheapen things too much and you'd have way too many players trying to play him like they're used to and getting messed up over it.
Mega Man: Proto Man I see more as support, honestly.
Peach: I'd have to disagree. They have different styles completely and themes no less. Daisy is a tomboy through and through, and it would show in her movements and attacks, with a completely different rhythm, and far less grace. Rosalina, for the same reason. She'd be more magic-heavy. This pains me to say so though as it keeps her a color swap. <<;
Toon Link: I'd have to say for the same reason as Link this might not be possible.
Sonic: Shadow would be a good possibility perhaps, or Metal, but not Classic.

Well, there's my piece. Feel free to counterpoint, people if I'm overthinking it.

 

[mimgrim]

Peach into Daisy is ******** if they change the jewels and the voice. (she already had a Daisy colour scheme in Brawl. why the **** would anyone want to play as Daisy anyways?)
Sonic into Shadow is ********.


These aren't simple costume changes.
They are god damn character changes.
And if you wanted to add a new character why the **** would you put it in a god damned colour swap inside another character?

I took away the ones I agreed with.

Anyways, your argument for daisy is actually very weak. And your argument for Shadow is even weaker. There are, imo, 2 main things to alternate costumes, the first is obviously the original character in a different outfit and the second is the alternate costume being that of a different character who could work EXACTLY like that character without the build or moves being altered, at all, basically a exact replica, a true clone if you will, that doesn't take up as much time as in the end it is just simply a palette swap and nothing more. Even Roy in Melee has a few different properties from Marth making him not a full palette swap becase he had different properties. You reasoning for why these characters wouldn't work as an alternate costume is pure BS, this goes for the ones I agree with to. At least their are more legitimate reasons however for Pikachu -> Raichu however because of different build, Kirby -> Yarn Kirby because they work differently, and Donkey Kong -> Funky Kong or DK Jr as again different builds.

Wow. Hypothetical? Mind if I cut in here and point out flaws? I'll go with the ones I have disagreements with to keep it short.

Pit: I unfortunately don't know enough about Uprising due to being a Southpaw which makes it hard for me to play this game effectively, but it seems to me that he would have stats that make him become a Falco. I.E. Hitting harder, shorter but more powerful combos, so I don't know. This one is opinion based on what I hear so feel free to discount this.
Link: Oh this one I have trouble with. I would say they can't really use the different outfits because of the specialized tool appearances in each design from game to game. That may just be me overthinking it though. So can't discount this completely.
Mario: Not a chance. Reducing Dr. Mario to the same stats as regular Mario would cheapen things too much and you'd have way too many players trying to play him like they're used to and getting messed up over it.
Peach: I'd have to disagree. They have different styles completely and themes no less. Daisy is a tomboy through and through, and it would show in her movements and attacks, with a completely different rhythm, and far less grace. Rosalina, for the same reason. She'd be more magic-heavy. This pains me to say so though as it keeps her a color swap. <<;
Toon Link: I'd have to say for the same reason as Link this might not be possible.

Well, there's my piece. Feel free to counterpoint, people if I'm overthinking it.

Dark Pit was basically a alt already in Brawl. And in KIU he isn't slower or anything like, he is literally the same as pit in terms of everything basically, even the same moves.
Smash never cared about canon in all honesty so them using items not from that game isn't a biggie.
Just give Mario the stats of DR. Mario. Problem solved .
Again Smash never cared about canon and both Daisy and Rosalina have practically the same build as Pech and Peach's moveset wouldn't look odd on them and would make their supporters, hopefully, happy.

 

[PikaJew]

I took away the ones I agreed with.

Anyways, your argument for daisy is actually very weak. And your argument for Shadow is even weaker. There are, imo, 2 main things to alternate costumes, the first is obviously the original character in a different outfit and the second is the alternate costume being that of a different character who could work EXACTLY like that character without the build or moves being altered, at all, basically a exact replica, a true clone if you will, that doesn't take up as much time as in the end it is just simply a palette swap and nothing more. Even Roy in Melee has a few different properties from Marth making him not a full palette swap becase he had different properties. You reasoning for why these characters wouldn't work as an alternate costume is pure BS, this goes for the ones I agree with to. At least their are more legitimate reasons however for Pikachu -> Raichu however because of different build, Kirby -> Yarn Kirby because they work differently, and Donkey Kong -> Funky Kong or DK Jr as again different builds.



Dark Pit was basically a alt already in Brawl. And in KIU he isn't slower or anything like, he is literally the same as pit in terms of everything basically, even the same moves.
Smash never cared about canon in all honesty so them using items not from that game isn't a biggie.
Just give Mario the stats of DR. Mario. Problem solved .
Again Smash never cared about canon and both Daisy and Rosalina have practically the same build as Pech and Peach's moveset wouldn't look odd on them and would make their supporters, hopefully, happy.

I don't care if it's JUST A COSTUME CHANGE
Go ahead and put the Shadow colours on Sonic, bring back the Daisy colours again

My beef is that you are taking away from the individuality of that character.
And you do that once the voice changes.
The Daisy colour swap for Peach has been fine for the past 2 games and doesn't need anything different.
A Shadow COLOUR SCHEME for Sonic would be fine.

But as soon as you change them enough that they are no longer the main characters (like voices) it doesn't work
Peach is the character, not Daisy.
Peach is still the character when she gets the Daisy colour swap.
That makes it an alternate costume.
But change the hearts to flowers, rework the facial structure and change the voice?
That is no longer simply a costume.
It's a whole new god damn character.

I am so ****ing tired of arguing this subject.
I feel like I am beating a dead horse.

They must remain the same character.
Simple as that.

What happens if the voice changes to Shadow?
Announcer says Shadow?
It says Shadow on the character selection screen?
Do you then get vs. stats for Shadow?
Can you get different trophies for Shadow?
Or is it still lumped under Sonic?

I know people are getting way too carried away thinking this means they can have 5 different Star Fox characters in one character selection box.
But this is ridiculous.
You are making a new character so why not give them their own slot?
They still take up space on the game.
So why make a completely new character hidden with a colour palette?

If you're going to go the extra mile and start making changes to a character besides simply a costume, then that makes it a completely new character.

Why can't people understand this?

 

[mimgrim]

I don't care if it's JUST A COSTUME CHANGE
Go ahead and put the Shadow colours on Sonic, bring back the Daisy colours again

While i personally would be fine with this, there are other people who just want more.

My beef is that you are taking away from the individuality of that character.
And you do that once the voice changes.
The Daisy colour swap for Peach has been fine for the past 2 games and doesn't need anything different.
A Shadow COLOUR SCHEME for Sonic would be fine.

For your voice argument, then I guess Mr. Fit should have Mrs. Fit's voice? As obviously having a different voice makes them a different character. And don't try that different case crap as it is BS reasoning.

But as soon as you change them enough that they are no longer the main characters (like voices) it doesn't work
Peach is the character, not Daisy.
Peach is still the character when she gets the Daisy colour swap.
That makes it an alternate costume.
But change the hearts to flowers, rework the facial structure and change the voice?
That is no longer simply a costume.
It's a whole new god damn character.

I never said anything about changing the moves. In fact I even implied that changing the moves up in anyway would take away from the alternate costume idea. Look who can't read.

What happens if the voice changes to Shadow?
Announcer says Shadow?
It says Shadow on the character selection screen?
Do you then get vs. stats for Shadow?
Can you get different trophies for Shadow?
Or is it still lumped under Sonic?

Voice argument again. Not valid. Try again :/
It could, it really just depends on how Sakurai would want to do it.
See above.
Obviously no.
I would assume yes.

I know people are getting way too carried away thinking this means they can have 5 different Star Fox characters in one character selection box.
But this is ridiculous.
You are making a new character so why not give them their own slot?
They still take up space on the game.
So why make a completely new character hidden with a colour palette?

The one who is getting carried away is you. Plain and simple.
And again you obviously didn't read what I posted. Like really is it that hard?

If you're going to go the extra mile and start making changes to a character besides simply a costume, then that makes it a completely new character.

Why can't people understand this?

Still haven't read anything I typed. If you hate reading so much why are you on an internet forum?

 

[NitrusVirus]

Good god look at all the TL;DR's

 

[Jumpman84]

It's not that hard to understand PikaJew's point. Making Daisy or Shadow a costume for Peach or Sonic cheapens their character. It doesn't matter that they have a "similar build". They are completely unique and distinct characters. Male Wii Fit Trainer may have a different build and voice, but both trainers are similar in their personalities that the difference isn't jarring (of course, we still have no confirmation that he is an alternate costume). With Daisy, it would be and I would be disgusted that such a great character was cheapened into a Peach clone.

 

[RODO]

While i personally would be fine with this, there are other people who just want more.




For your voice argument, then I guess Mr. Fit should have Mrs. Fit's voice? As obviously having a different voice makes them a different character. And don't try that different case crap as it is BS reasoning.



I never said anything about changing the moves. In fact I even implied that changing the moves up in anyway would take away from the alternate costume idea. Look who can't read.





Voice argument again. Not valid. Try again :/
It could, it really just depends on how Sakurai would want to do it.
See above.
Obviously no.
I would assume yes.



The one who is getting carried away is you. Plain and simple.
And again you obviously didn't read what I posted. Like really is it that hard?



Still haven't read anything I typed. If you hate reading so much why are you on an internet forum?

The thing about pikajew's points though, is that they coincide perfectly with what Sakurai has been telling us this whole time.

 

[Sarki Soliloquy]

Thank you for completely missing the point good sir.

Not that I was even trying to justify Ivysaur in being a female character in the first place, but why others think it is.

And thank you for reading my post as if I were presenting an insult towards you.

Anyways, swapping characters independent from others such as Daisy or Shadow would be different than the Wii Fit Trainer(s) and possibly the Villager(s) because those aren't characters with a distinct, solid identity. Only variants. This would be further induced if they were to give different voices, animations, or even models. Peach's Daisy recolor seems more allusive than literal, almost as if she was cosplaying her.

Also, I doubt Sakurai would make a clone for one character solely over gender.

 

[Curious Villager]

Lol whut? When was I ever insulted?

Just because I make a remark or argue doesn't necessarily mean I'm offended or anything.

 

[SmashBro99]

Sakurai giff pls

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I believe it has something to do with the Japanese version having Ivysaur with a female voice instead of the male voice it has in other versions.

Wouldn't that make Ash a female?

 

[Curious Villager]

Wouldn't that make Ash a female?

Young boy's tend to be voiced by females due to the fact that their voices have a softer tone compared to grown males. That's why Ash has a female voice actress doing the voicing for him, so I don't think that's quite the same thing.

To be honest I haven't heard Ivysaur's Japanese voice actress yet so I wouldn't really know whether she is actually blatantly meant to sound like a girl or if the voice actress was attempting to make it sound like a boy.

So I honestly don't know. But seeing as how Ivysaur's don't really have any specific gender features and that both genders look the same, I'm not very sure that it matters too much wether the Japanese one is male or female or whether the western one is male or female. :/

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Venusaur does. Maybe we should evolve it and see

 

[Curious Villager]

Venusaur does. Maybe we should evolve it and see

Lol perhaps yeah.

 

[Sarki Soliloquy]

I always consider the Pokemon in Smash to be 'its' because they can be either male, female, or asexual. Although Lucario seems to take from his incarnation from his movie.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I always consider the Pokemon in Smash to be 'its' because they can be either male, female, or asexual. Although Lucario seems to take from his incarnation from his movie.

So does Mewtwo, and the Mewtwo in the anime was male

I say that because the Mewtwo in the new anime is obviously female.

 

[Sarki Soliloquy]

Mewtwo is a genderless Pokemon in the games. The only real male indication going for it in the anime was his voice and maybe its gender address from other characters. I haven't seen the new movie, so I wouldn't know if their a clear female distinction. It seems as if though Mega Mewtwo X is male and Mega Mewtwo Y is female.

 

[The Revolutionary Cafe]

They should put a Marth costume with the FE:A mask (even though it TECHNICALLY WASN'T Marth it would be cool)

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

Mewtwo is a genderless Pokemon in the games. The only real male indication going for it in the anime was his voice and maybe its gender address from other characters. I haven't seen the new movie, so I wouldn't know if their a clear female distinction. It seems as if though Mega Mewtwo X is male and Mega Mewtwo Y is female.

Crapbaskets. He is a guy in book, Ninty hasn't confirmed that yet