Alola's Arboreal Archer - The Decidueye for Smash Thread (RIP the dream)

HenryZusa

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I really wanted Decidueye in Smash before Incineroar.
A Ghost Grass Archer Owl is 1000 times more interesting than freakin' Tony the Tiger.

Being that Sakurai has revealed this, we can discard the idea of an "almost made it in base game" character pack
 

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So the full translation of the interview came out, and as a tl;dr, Decidueye was VERY close to being chosen. The entire time it was solely between Incineroar and Decidueye, and Sakurai even thought Decidueye would be a great fighter, noting its potential for a projectile-heavy moveset. In the end, despite both being strong choices, Sakurai's love of pro-wrestling won out in the end.

Honestly you can't even be mad at that. If anything I think it's a testament to how good Alola's starters were this time around. Owl's well that ends well, you know?
Why, because he wears a hood and is edgy ?

Decidueye would have been sick but you gotta let it go, man.
I never got the belief that Decidueye was edgy, considering how dorky it is.
 

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Obviously Sakurai knew that Incineroar was gonna be a questionable choice, so he'll make up for it with Decidueye, Lycanroc, AND Primarina DLC! Everyone wins! Except for Mimikyu fans, gen 3/5 fans, edgy gen 2 fans, people who like any of the Pokemon gen 8 introduces, and people who don't want another Pokemon.
 

Super10ZX

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Welp, this threads been dead for quite sometime. With Lampy being gone for awhile now, would it be possible for me to takeover the thread? Or has someone already claimed this?

Anyway, to get discussion going through here again, here’s 2 things:

1. Finally, after such a long time coming, Hau will be using a Decidueye for the upcoming Alola League. This is finally the first major Decidueye in the anime, since the only one before was used by a nameless trainer that appeared in 2 episodes.

2. NinN on Twitter true in amazing commission for Decidueye in Smash awhile ago.
 
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Lionel_B

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Obviously, Decidueye is hated by the license. Because what happened with the fight Ash VS Hau... It's not possible...

The problem does not come from the victory of Ash, but from how it is staged...

We are shown a victorious Decidueye... To remove him directly after. And that makes me suffer. Ok, it's for the troll, but it just gives the impression that Decidueye is the laughingstock of the license. To see him ridicule in this way, like it must be the anti-Greninja, give him everything to make him the Pokémon the most popular Pokémon of the license (as much as I do not like it), Decidueye, on prevents him.

I have never accepted the choice of Incineroar at the expense of Decidueye, even today, I can not play the game because of that and since I have no more waiting for a character (I would like to be happy for the Hero and Banjo-Kazooie, but today they don't make any effect to me... I would even say that their announcement at E3 was so predictable that there was no reason to be surprised). Well, the problem is deeper, but I do not want to bother you with that.

What I mean is that I have the impression that people want to give me wrong to love Decidueye. And this is one of the elements that will even challenge my love for Pokémon. For what good to love the license if it is for the wrong reasons and if I have only unpopular opinions...
 

fogbadge

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Obviously, Decidueye is hated by the license. Because what happened with the fight Ash VS Hau... It's not possible...

The problem does not come from the victory of Ash, but from how it is staged...

We are shown a victorious Decidueye... To remove him directly after. And that makes me suffer. Ok, it's for the troll, but it just gives the impression that Decidueye is the laughingstock of the license. To see him ridicule in this way, like it must be the anti-Greninja, give him everything to make him the Pokémon the most popular Pokémon of the license (as much as I do not like it), Decidueye, on prevents him.

I have never accepted the choice of Incineroar at the expense of Decidueye, even today, I can not play the game because of that and since I have no more waiting for a character (I would like to be happy for the Hero and Banjo-Kazooie, but today they don't make any effect to me... I would even say that their announcement at E3 was so predictable that there was no reason to be surprised). Well, the problem is deeper, but I do not want to bother you with that.

What I mean is that I have the impression that people want to give me wrong to love Decidueye. And this is one of the elements that will even challenge my love for Pokémon. For what good to love the license if it is for the wrong reasons and if I have only unpopular opinions...
i think you may be reading a little too much into that, of course ash beat hau, he may never win a pokemon league but he always beats his rivals and stuff that shouldnt be possible happens in the anime all the time

as for inceroar getting into smash, sakurai just wanted a wrestler character, he plays more like a genric wrestler than inceroar
 

Cosmic77

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Obviously, Decidueye is hated by the license. Because what happened with the fight Ash VS Hau... It's not possible...

The problem does not come from the victory of Ash, but from how it is staged...

We are shown a victorious Decidueye... To remove him directly after. And that makes me suffer. Ok, it's for the troll, but it just gives the impression that Decidueye is the laughingstock of the license. To see him ridicule in this way, like it must be the anti-Greninja, give him everything to make him the Pokémon the most popular Pokémon of the license (as much as I do not like it), Decidueye, on prevents him.

I have never accepted the choice of Incineroar at the expense of Decidueye, even today, I can not play the game because of that and since I have no more waiting for a character (I would like to be happy for the Hero and Banjo-Kazooie, but today they don't make any effect to me... I would even say that their announcement at E3 was so predictable that there was no reason to be surprised). Well, the problem is deeper, but I do not want to bother you with that.

What I mean is that I have the impression that people want to give me wrong to love Decidueye. And this is one of the elements that will even challenge my love for Pokémon. For what good to love the license if it is for the wrong reasons and if I have only unpopular opinions...
If you think Decidueye had it rough, you should've seen Primarina in the next episode.

Look, I get that you're disappointed, but there was nothing that ever guaranteed Decidueye a spot. Pokemon newcomers have always been a luck of the draw, and Decidueye is far from the only Pokemon that's been burned in Smash.
 

Lionel_B

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At least, Primaria has been showcased in the anime, and has been shown in a winning position, and his defeat against Guzma is not portrayed as a humiliation for Primaria.

Decidueye him, is just nil... Yes! He beat a Zubat once, it changes everything!

And sorry, but the counter arguments, it does not work. Decidueye was the most requested Pokémon in Ultimate, even in Japan, and I was happy because for once, all the fans agreed with me, I'm used to death threats because I say Pearl and Diamond are the worst games or that Scizor is a bad evolution, for once everyone agreed...

Except an Incineroar fanboy... Who for him, Decidueye is a ****ty Pokémon that does not deserve its popularity among fans unlike Incineroar. So, as I was the one who wanted Decidueye the most, I was his scapegoat, he did not stop making fun of me when he had the opportunity, and it lasted for months. And then comes the horrible day of November 1, 2018, when Incineroar was announced in Smash bros, I felt destroyed, because not only was it not Decidueye, but also it meant that karma had rewarded my stalker for what he had done, result, he passed for a hero while me, I was the laughing stock.

I cried for several nights, and I'm still crying.

And in the end, I realized that the problem, sorry if you take it personally, came from the mentality of the community. I do not hate Incineroar before, and I may have accepted it without it. And next door, I have to be happy for characters I do not care about like Isabelle and Joker, while the overwhelming majority consider characters I loved as WiiFit Trainer and Corrin as the worst choices they need remove from Smash bros.

I just have enough... Not to have compensation... Decidueye it became the character that I wanted more, more than Bandana Dee or Sora ... And now, any newcomer will seem bland to me , while he has no chance... And if we had a Pokémon 8G, it would fall on Grookey, which is by chance, the starters 8G I like the least, just like Greninja and Incineroar .

Now, when I imagine what new character will be announced in Smash bros, I only made logic. That's how I was 100% sure that Hero and Banjo Kazooie would be announced at E3, because it was the most logical choice, more by personal desire...

But you know... Even if miraculously, Decidueye joined the roster by DLC... I think it will not cure my misfortune, because in the meantime, I suffered from this situation...
 
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Obviously, Decidueye is hated by the license. Because what happened with the fight Ash VS Hau... It's not possible...

The problem does not come from the victory of Ash, but from how it is staged...

We are shown a victorious Decidueye... To remove him directly after. And that makes me suffer. Ok, it's for the troll, but it just gives the impression that Decidueye is the laughingstock of the license. To see him ridicule in this way, like it must be the anti-Greninja, give him everything to make him the Pokémon the most popular Pokémon of the license (as much as I do not like it), Decidueye, on prevents him.

I have never accepted the choice of Incineroar at the expense of Decidueye, even today, I can not play the game because of that and since I have no more waiting for a character (I would like to be happy for the Hero and Banjo-Kazooie, but today they don't make any effect to me... I would even say that their announcement at E3 was so predictable that there was no reason to be surprised). Well, the problem is deeper, but I do not want to bother you with that.

What I mean is that I have the impression that people want to give me wrong to love Decidueye. And this is one of the elements that will even challenge my love for Pokémon. For what good to love the license if it is for the wrong reasons and if I have only unpopular opinions...
I don't see why the anime should put you off the franchise honestly.
Decidueye was chosen for Pokken after all which puts it above 90% of all other Pokémon. Pokémon company rarely pushes a Pokémon post their gen. To date Lucario and Greninja are the only ones I can think of as stand outs aside from Gen 1 which constantly gets attention by virtue of it being the most famous.

I can sympathize with you to an extent about your disappointment in not getting your Smash dreams come true(Toad and Meowth fan since Smash 64 over here) but absolutely nothing or no-one should actively effect you so personally that you should feel you're wrong for liking the characters you do.

I applaud you to take a breather from speculation if it's bringing you to tears, and maybe try to look at Decidueye's treatment in the anime with objective eyes.
It's far from the first time a pre-evolved Pokémon has defeated it's fully evolved version for plot contrivance and it's not like Ash doesn't go from having his Pikachu be able to tangle with legendary Pokémon to suddenly getting beat up by a level 5 Oshawott.

The anime is honestly pretty dumb and the only thing you can guarantee is the wins will be down to how prominent the character is.
Ash will always have the advantage over his peers but taken down by an unknown in the league, the female companion of the day will always manage to beat everyone bar Ash, Brock/Tracey/Cilan/male friend etc will be the least likely to win unless the episode specifically aims to showcase their development and Team Rocket will always lose against Ash but will win if they team up with the twerps.

Please don't take Decidueye's anime treatment personally, I'm a Meowth fan and he's the permanent whipping boy of the series.

As for the asshole Incineroar fan. Well, he got lucky. Pokémon picks are a crapshoot. That Decidueye is still in the dedicated Pokémon game and Incineroar isn't despite literally being a more obvious choice than the undead archer will hopefully at least provide some small comfort.
 

Lionel_B

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So, Pokkén, everybody does not care. It will never have more consideration than Smash bros.

As for the anime, obviously it is important to take into account, since it is the Pokémon media most easily accessible to the general public.

And it's terrifying to see how much fans can trust it, see when they idenlatre the series XY (they fall easily in the trap of Ash serious ... Except that it is not credible since retcon all the time).

And the anime has a lot to contribute to the popularity of Greninja, it is the anime that has created this horrible mega-evolution of substitution that is Ash-Greninja (it is especially horrible, because under the pretext that it is the one that the license puts forward, he has the right to a new form and not the other 2 starters ...).

So yes, the anime has a significant impact on the vision of the license, even if it is not always in his image.

So, I am very affected by what the anime does of Decidueye. He looks cool, "like Greninja", and Rowlet was Ash's first Pokémon, so we could hope it was used well...

But no, instead, we're told clearly that Rowlet is better without evolving.

And in the end, Decidueye does not appear until the end, he just had a cameo before he gets screwed by Incineroar.

The only time we see it in action is to be ridiculed. We declare him the winner of his fight against Rowlet Ash, but twist, Rowlet was not knocked out, just asleep, and suddenly, we were made to believe that Decidueye had won while not... And it reminds the unpleasant remember to know that there was a chance on 2 to be chosen in Smash...

And when we see the reaction of the fans, we see that a good part loved this fight for this side troll.

So, after a while, I think it's normal for me to crack... And I hate everyone, Smash bros, the fanbase, Sakurai, The Pokémon Company, the writers of the anime (from less from Diamond & Pearl).

I can not bear to see my Pokémon put forward to be ridiculed. But worse, I've the impression that I am told that having liked Decidueye was a mistake.

I understand that for you, I look silly to give all this importance, after all, it's just a game.

This situation makes me sick, but as I can not change anything, I have to push myself to move on... But as the news Smash bros and Pokémon are very strong and always ends up being in front of my eyes, I 'can not do it...

All I can do is externalize what I feel. I am a little ashamed because I impose my bad mood, but I do not know how to get better.
 
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Well, I do hope you feel better with time. However please also do bear in mind Decidueye isn't the only one to get such treatment.

Raichu gets a bum wrap all the time. The games constantly crap on it by either preventing certain Pikachu from being able to evolve like in Yellow, Let's Go Pikachu and even some of the Event Pikachu in Pokemon Go and giving Pikachu exclusive hold items that render Raichu's existence pointless.
They also don't promote Raichu at all despite it being so closely related to Pikachu. Whenever we see a group of fully evolved Kanto starters they are nearly always alongside Pikachu. Whenever we see the non-evolved Kanto Starters they are also alongside Pikachu. Raichu is very much ignore entirely, even though both Pikachu and Pichu get to make heavy advertisement appearances.
In the anime Raichu's entire existence seems to be to lose to Pikachu thanks to Lt. Surge's famous gym battle where it made a point of being able to overcome evolution. The only other time Raichu appears in the anime in any major role is as Tierno's Pokemon and she loses every single battle she's in. Every. Single. One.

So hey; at least Decidueye isn't poor Raichu, doomed to be forever overshadowed by every other member of it's family and ignored by Game Freak.

Or Blastoise. Imagine losing to a Charizard when you have the clear type advantage due to protagonist plot armour.

Or Venusaur who didn't even get that much only appearing to lose to a common bird Pokemon and to be briefly shown competing under May's command in a contest. At least there's slight hope Rowlet may eventually evolve like Ash's Cyndaquil. Bulbasaur has flat out refused to evolve.

Or Meowth, whom is the whipping boy of the anime forever more. Okay there's Meowth in Boots I guess, but hardly anyone remembers him compared to Team Rocket's one.

Also even if nobody cares about Pokken compared to Smash, so what? You can still play Pokken, you can still play AS Decidueye and take down some Charizards or Blazikens as the archer owl. You can still enjoy Sun and Moon and hopefully if Game Freak sort their nonsense out, Sword and Shield with the grass bird.
Smash isn't everything at the end of the day, as ridiculous as that may sound on Smashboards. Other games exist and your character choices are valid regardless if Sakurai agrees with them or not. I mean he thought Dr. Mario was worth including. The man ain't perfect, he makes questionable additions a lot.
 

fogbadge

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to be fair ash's rowlet not evolving is probably due to the fact that rowlet is the popular one in the line

also i think smash contributed to greninja's popularity before the anime did
 

UserKev

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Decidueye could've been neat I guess. Its legacy with Smash speculation has definitely been cemented, its one of and will always be one of the most believable Pokémon contenders for Smash. He's anonymously apart of the roster.

Decidueye could seriously be a staple for DLC and can easily mirror Ridley, K. Rool's victories.
 

Lionel_B

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how can you be anonymously part of the roster?
I think what he meant was that Decidueye became a special character among all those who are asked.

It was the most desired Pokémon for Smash Bros, but his problem is that it's a character from a series that can only be in Smash Bros for the current game. So if he is not chosen, he will never be. But we can not prevent people from continuing to hope for it, given all the interest it has to bear.
 

fogbadge

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I think what he meant was that Decidueye became a special character among all those who are asked.

It was the most desired Pokémon for Smash Bros, but his problem is that it's a character from a series that can only be in Smash Bros for the current game. So if he is not chosen, he will never be. But we can not prevent people from continuing to hope for it, given all the interest it has to bear.
ok but thats not what anonymously means, it doesnt really work for that explanation
 

StormC

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So, after a while, I think it's normal for me to crack... And I hate everyone, Smash bros, the fanbase, Sakurai, The Pokémon Company, the writers of the anime (from less from Diamond & Pearl).
It's just a video game, mate. An electronic toy that you drop $60 to play and have fun with. Hating all these random people because Decidueye didn't get in is... well, you can fill in the adjectives I was thinking about putting here.

Pokemon is always a crapshoot for Smash. Character inclusion is up to the whims of Sakurai and TPC, this is just crying over spilled milk. I say that as a Decidueye supporter. One should have realized that if he missed out now, he was never getting in and made peace with that.

If a video game is affecting you this much, I suggest seeking outside help. I mean that seriously.
 
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Lionel_B

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I noticed that the topic on Lycanroc is more active. It must be believed that Decidueye was only a fad, a character who was only speculated because it was a Grass Starter.

And when I see Rillaboom... Serious, even if we treated Decidueye Grass Pit, at least he had a unique design and an interesting movepool, while Rillaboom is literally Grass Donkey Kong...
 
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Minik

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I noticed that the topic on Lycanroc is more active. It must be believed that Decidueye was only a fad, a character who was only speculated because it was a Grass Starter.

And when I see Rillaboom... Serious, even if we treated Decidueye Grass Pit, at least he had a unique design and an interesting movepool, while Rillaboom is literally Grass Donkey Kong...
Any pokemon is a fad pokemon, people are only humoring the idea of Rillaboom because it is grass type, to complete the "elemental trio" ocd people have. A lot of people did for Decidueye too but also genuinely loved and even recognised by Sakurai so it wasn't just an "elemental trio" pick that people think Sakurai is shallow enough for. If anything the fire type evo will be chosen for its basic humanoid shape and clear kick based fighter, all modern pokemon picks in smash have been very basic tropes.
 

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I noticed that the topic on Lycanroc is more active. It must be believed that Decidueye was only a fad, a character who was only speculated because it was a Grass Starter.

And when I see Rillaboom... Serious, even if we treated Decidueye Grass Pit, at least he had a unique design and an interesting movepool, while Rillaboom is literally Grass Donkey Kong...
The Lycanroc thread is more active because its OP contributes more to the thread, combined with the belief that the Pokemon Company supports it more.

And yes, I think Rillaboom is a bad idea. Not because he's grass DK but because I can't imagine that drum in Smash in a way that isn't awkward.
 

Kremling Man

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I love this thread and yes Lycanroc might have been pushed more anime wise but Decidueye is an amazing Pokemon with a unique look and design and great moves.


So I'll always love the owl archer.
 

UserKev

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I noticed that the topic on Lycanroc is more active. It must be believed that Decidueye was only a fad, a character who was only speculated because it was a Grass Starter.

And when I see Rillaboom... Serious, even if we treated Decidueye Grass Pit, at least he had a unique design and an interesting movepool, while Rillaboom is literally Grass Donkey Kong...
Decidueye wasn't a fad pick. It was phenomenon and cultural to Smash speculation like Geno. Its a classic Pokémon, especially in comparison with the current Starters.
 

fogbadge

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I noticed that the topic on Lycanroc is more active. It must be believed that Decidueye was only a fad, a character who was only speculated because it was a Grass Starter.

And when I see Rillaboom... Serious, even if we treated Decidueye Grass Pit, at least he had a unique design and an interesting movepool, while Rillaboom is literally Grass Donkey Kong...
well hes the fully evolved form of japan's favourite gen 7 pokemon i imagine his popularity will stick around, also i really dont see how he would end up anything like pit, people love decidueye and thats not ever changing

same with rillaboom, with the drum shield i just dont see why hed be like dk
 

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well hes the fully evolved form of japan's favourite gen 7 pokemon i imagine his popularity will stick around
Japan's love of Piplup doesn't necessarily transfer over to Empoleon.
i just dont see why hed be like dk
Yeah, he'd be a much more awkward character.
 

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bit early to bury him surely
No it isn't, considering that all of SSBU's DLC newcomers, even Piranha Plant, are more fanservicey than picking another new starter over an established favorite could be.
 
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fogbadge

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No it isn't, considering that all of SSBU's DLC newcomers, even Piranha Plant, are more fanservicey than picking another new starter over an established favorite could be.
might not take long for it to become an established fan favourite didnt take long for others to do so, we haves 9 out of 10 fan favourites to be fair
 

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might not take long for it to become an established fan favourite didnt take long for others to do so, we haves 9 out of 10 fan favourites to be fair
Even then, Nintendo/Sakurai might want to do something other than "pick whatever new starter has an obvious fighter archetype". With mobile games not getting the new batch of Pokemon for a while, there's a good reason to do this.
 
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fogbadge

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Even then, Nintendo/Sakurai might want to do something other than "pick whatever new starter has an obvious fighter archetype". With mobile games not getting the new batch of Pokemon for a while, there's a good reason to do this.
Well the only reason they usually need is sakurai wants it and nobody seems to know what’s going on in his head
 

Lionel_B

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And yes, I think Rillaboom is a bad idea. Not because he's grass DK but because I can't imagine that drum in Smash in a way that isn't awkward.
As well. But I have the impression that the drum could also serve as a shield.

But despite this, he is physically too similar to Donkey Kong and that, I think it could influence the desire to buy it.

And besides that... It's the one I like the least of 3. Between a spy and a footballer, if Sakurai chooses the gorilla drum player...

Well, that said, it would not surprise me, Sakurai represented Gen 6 and Gen 7 with the rare Pokémon of recent generations that I absolutely dont like. So, with my bad luck, I dont have much hope.

But deep in me, I still hope that Intelleon will integrate the game as an echo in Greninja, which will allow Decidueye to join the roster as a playable character, but it's a waste.
 
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Lionel_B

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Water Starter
Infiltration specialist (ninja/spy)
Amphibian and lizard

We just replace Water Shuriken with Snipe Shot, change pose and Final Smash.
 

fogbadge

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Water Starter
Infiltration specialist (ninja/spy)
Amphibian and lizard

We just replace Water Shuriken with Snipe Shot, change pose and Final Smash.
but their body types dont really match, and the theres the moves that use the tongue, the water kunai wouldnt make sense, the change is stance would likely affect the moveset, i dont really think hed work as an echo hed be better off being unique
 
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