Alola's Arboreal Archer - The Decidueye for Smash Thread (RIP the dream)

[JaylonSonicSpeed]

Have you guys heard the speculation of Ash's Rowlet evolving in the anime? I don't actually keep up with it so this could be completely out of date or not a sound argument, but if Rowlet does evolve I feel as if that greatly increase his chances. Can someone compare Rowlet/Decidueye's situation in the anime to Froakie/Greninja's? All I know is that they were both Ash's starters in their region.

 

[False Sense]

Have you guys heard the speculation of Ash's Rowlet evolving in the anime? I don't actually keep up with it so this could be completely out of date or not a sound argument, but if Rowlet does evolve I feel as if that greatly increase his chances. Can someone compare Rowlet/Decidueye's situation in the anime to Froakie/Greninja's? All I know is that they were both Ash's starters in their region.

At this point it's pretty clear that if there is a counterpart to Greninja this time around, it's Ash's Lycanroc. Already evolved and already has unique form that got added into the games later on. If the anime is going to benefit anyone, it's Lycanroc. That being said I'm not sure how much the anime *would* impact Smash choices.

Also, I don't see myself on the supporters list. Might I be added? I'd love to see this birb on the roster.

 

[Teeb147]

So, interestingly enough, people really havent given up on Decidueye. Two somewhat big polls got him placed pretty high.

Here's the 20k(+) one that was on twitter (decidueye got 17th):

Spoiler

And here's 1 image of the one called 'unofficial' ballot that was shared on multiple forums and such. Our poke got 13th.
(Incineroar got like 34th or something like that, btw.)

 

[CleverDan]

I'm much more in favor of Decidueye over Incineroar. It's my personal favorite of any third-stage grass starters and seemed like the most popular choice until the Vergeben "leak" and that Ash has a Torracat in the anime. I don't know where his support went but I'd like to see it come back.

 

[keleyeemoh]

Decidueye is my number one pick. Add me to the support list, please.

 

[SJMistery]

That just shows you use "edgelord" as a meaningless buzzword instead of using an actual argument.


And dude, I've been a fan of Pokémon since I had the mental capability to be a fan of something lol. Incineroar is the best of the Alolan starters competitively by far thanks to Intimidate, which synergizes really well with its decent bulk and access to healing via Leech Life. Meanwhile Primarina's speed hampers it in its niche (though its typing definitely helps it) while Decidueye's stats are, admittedly, wonky, with many points wasted in Special Attack that could've gone elsewhere, with Spirit Shackle being the one thing keeping it out of total obscurity.

And that's coming from someone whose current second-most wanted Smash character is Decidueye.

HELL NO. There are so many things wrong there I'll have to split it in parts:

Primarina has a wallbreaking power that rips UU teams apart and can even cause some havoc in OU and BSS thanks to that monstruous SAttk and the great coverage he has available from his main STABs alone.

Decidueye is NU by usage since last month but still has great options on both UU, BSS and RU thanks to his Sinister Arrow Raid backed up by Swords Dance, and the potential threat of a suprise Curse set Mimikyu-style.

Incineroar instead has been stuck in NU since the very begginning and is essentially a worse version of Emboar, who is himself a worse version of Darmanitan.

Intimidate means nothing, there are a literal dozen of pokemon that also have it and unlike him, they pack the offensive and defensive stats and moves to back it up, the most prominent being, I hope you guessed it, Landorus and Gyarados.

Leech Life is a HORRIBLE option. Bug moves have bad coverage in general (ties for the most resisted type with Grass) and it does not even have STAB boost to justify using it. Just by saying that, I can tell you have actually no idea on how to play Pokémon, or at least, no idea how to play it against opponents that have some idea of what they are doing.

Look I don't really like Incineroar either but I don't think being competitively useless is a mark against any Pokémon in Smash. Pikachu is pretty terrible, Charizard is bad (mega evolution doesn't count because he doesn't have it anymore), I don't think Jigglypuff even has a single tier it's viable in since it's too strong for LC (I think), pretty much only Mewtwo and Lucario are good. And Mewtwo was powercrept by the Hoenn trio's new forms. And also Lucario isn't that good without Mega Evolution.

Consider that

Overused edgy looking design, on a pokemon that fares horribly on serious play? That is a recipe for disaster. For casuals it looks like an edgy Blaziken clone thus they don't like him.

For hardcore players, he is the second coming of Emboar: a useless pokemon completely outclassed at everything by older pokemon, that no one should seriously consider even in low tier teams.

And even in the anime he just appeared, he appears to be a Charizard replacement in personality and in battle, and no one is really too happy with that, not to mention everybody is getting sick of the anime after the sixth consecutive Diabolous ex Machina on the league, so he can't even pull some steam from the anime fanbase, either

And I forgot to mention, and thanks for reminding me; the seventh generation has been available for a while so he can't pull the "advertising placeholder character" like Lucario or Greninja did. He has nothing in his favor at all to justify a Smash inclusion.

 

[SJMistery]

Which is why a number of people used the HA Incineroar in VGC, including the two finalists in the Masters Division.
Just quit while you're behind.

If you've got nothing to say about Decidueye and only want to spout off driveling bull**** about Incineroar in the Decidueye thread, you're better off just not saying anything at all like that lackey of yours.

WTF are you talking? No one used him in the top 8 of the Masters Division in the last two years. Nor it will be used, by the time he got Intimidate, Landorus and company were legal again.

https://www.pokemon.com/us/play-pokemon/worlds/2016/teams/masters/
https://www.pokemon.com/us/play-pokemon/worlds/2017/vgc-masters/

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

WTF are you talking? No one used him in the top 8 of the Masters Division in the last two years. Nor it will be used, by the time he got Intimidate, Landorus and company were legal again.

https://www.pokemon.com/us/play-pokemon/worlds/2016/teams/masters/
https://www.pokemon.com/us/play-pokemon/worlds/2017/vgc-masters/

Wasn't HA Incineroar just released this year? Of course no one in 2016 or 2017 would use it if it wasn't available

 

[SJMistery]

Wasn't HA Incineroar just released this year? Of course no one in 2016 or 2017 would use it if it wasn't available

He just said the Masters finalists used him. I proved him wrong with those two records of the Gen VII VCG we got.
And he has basically zero chance of showing up even without Landorus and Manectric acting as 150% superior Intimidate users.
Hitmontop is still there, as are Gyarados and Staraptor if you need a more offensive one.
Plus, why would you use a pokemon weak to three of the most useful moves in VCG? Earthquake, Rock Slide and Surf.

 

[Opossum]

HELL NO. There are so many things wrong there I'll have to split it in parts:

Primarina has a wallbreaking power that rips UU teams apart and can even cause some havoc in OU and BSS thanks to that monstruous SAttk and the great coverage he has available from his main STABs alone.

Decidueye is NU by usage since last month but still has great options on both UU, BSS and RU thanks to his Sinister Arrow Raid backed up by Swords Dance, and the potential threat of a suprise Curse set Mimikyu-style.

Incineroar instead has been stuck in NU since the very begginning and is essentially a worse version of Emboar, who is himself a worse version of Darmanitan.

Intimidate means nothing, there are a literal dozen of pokemon that also have it and unlike him, they pack the offensive and defensive stats and moves to back it up, the most prominent being, I hope you guessed it, Landorus and Gyarados.

Leech Life is a HORRIBLE option. Bug moves have bad coverage in general (ties for the most resisted type with Grass) and it does not even have STAB boost to justify using it. Just by saying that, I can tell you have actually no idea on how to play Pokémon, or at least, no idea how to play it against opponents that have some idea of what they are doing.



Consider that

Overused edgy looking design, on a pokemon that fares horribly on serious play? That is a recipe for disaster. For casuals it looks like an edgy Blaziken clone thus they don't like him.

For hardcore players, he is the second coming of Emboar: a useless pokemon completely outclassed at everything by older pokemon, that no one should seriously consider even in low tier teams.

And even in the anime he just appeared, he appears to be a Charizard replacement in personality and in battle, and no one is really too happy with that, not to mention everybody is getting sick of the anime after the sixth consecutive Diabolous ex Machina on the league, so he can't even pull some steam from the anime fanbase, either

And I forgot to mention, and thanks for reminding me; the seventh generation has been available for a while so he can't pull the "advertising placeholder character" like Lucario or Greninja did. He has nothing in his favor at all to justify a Smash inclusion.

Whatever you say, kiddo.

 

[Standlord]

Edit: Given the circumstances, I now prefer to keep this to myself, sorry.

 

[Deleted member]

Gotta be honest, my confidence in Decidueye's chances is not what it's once was. Being a grass starter gave him a bid advantage but that advantage is gone now with Ivysaur being back. Plus, it's not looking like popularity for him kicked up quite as much as we were expecting.

Not to say Decidueye wouldn't still be a great addition. Ivysaur or not he offers some nice moveset potential and I still think he's a pretty cool Pokemon. Yeah the Vergeben leaks are saying he won't be playable. But there's no guarantee that he'll call everything correctly. It happened with Gematsu and it could happen with him too.

I am starting to doubt Decidueye being playable. But if he is, I'll happily eat my words. Consider me a supporter.

 

[Mayoman]

So the Smash character that was revealed was Isabelle, one of the characters Vergeben predicted. Should we be worried?

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/234547-super-smash-bros-ultimate/77008096

It’s over

Spoiler

It’s incineroar

 

[NintenRob]

Man I'd love Decidueye to leave Incineroar begging for a chance another day like Robin did to Chrom and Gematsu.


Any other Pokemon would be better, that thing might honestly be my least favourite Pokemon.

 

[Mayoman]

I'm simultaneously p'd off and depressed right now. Out of all the Pokemon from Gen 7 they choose, they choose the least interesting one. Not to mention there's going to be two Fire types and two Water types in Smash and only one Grass type in Smash. Lets just face it. Grass will forever be the laughing stock of Pokemon.

 

[Opossum]

Well, there it is. Goodnight, sweet prince.

At the very least, I'm glad they went with Incineroar over Lycanroc or Mimikyu.

 

[Coofle DeDoofle]

Well, if that's true, at least Decidueye has Pokken...

 

[xwingz900]

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/234547-super-smash-bros-ultimate/77008096

It’s over

Spoiler

It’s incineroar

2 fire starters? Interesting choice. Well that sucks for Decidueye................WAIT DID HE SAY KEN?!?!?! Suddenly i'm happy again!

 

[DerErlenkonig]

I'm gonna be heartbroken if Incineroar makes it over Decidueye. I can't stand the stupid thing.

Dark type or not, Incineroar is still a bipedal muscle-y Fire-Type. I have nothing against those that like him (I get the appeal of a "wrestler" persona... His excellent animations in SuMo are what carries him)... But we need at least *one* fully evolved Grass Starter. I'm so sick of Grass always getting shafted.

Still holding out hope honestly. I know Vergeben has been on a roll with his predictions, but it ain't over until it's over.

 

[Sari]

I've said this before but until we see Incineroar officially confirmed by Nintendo, I am still hoping Decidueye somehow makes it in. I know Vergeben's recent comments hurt Decidueye's chances even more, but I'm not gonna jump ship just yet.

 

[PrinceGal3n]

Even with Incineroar being preached as gospel by all of the leaks, I won't believe it till I see it. The Fire types have already had a shot at being a solo Pokemon rep (I'm looking at you you rebellious Charizard from Smash 4), its time for the Grass types to be represented properly with a fully evolved starter!

 

[RileyXY1]

This thread is almost dead. That's what Vergeben obsession does to threads.

 

[Ze Diglett]

Part of me is hoping Decidueye does turn out to be the new Pokemon rep and all the Incineroar talk turns out to be another "enjoy Shulk" type situation, but the rest of me has accepted that we're probably gonna have to settle for a cereal mascot as our Pokemon rep. Ah, well, there's always a chance, I guess.

 

[Ultinarok]

This thread is almost dead. That's what Vergeben obsession does to threads.

Yeah no kidding. It's part of the reason why I prefer to believe Vergeben is half-lucky and half-informed. People embrace his words as gospel to the point where speculation about anything else seldom exists. Vergeben said Incineroar, so that apparently means it's no longer worth it to speculate about Decidueye or anyone else.

Nevermind that his resources could be flat out wrong. Which is still possible. Being correct and well-informed a few times does not logically mean that you will always be correct and well-informed forever about everything no matter what. People make mistakes. Luck runs out. It's not rocket science. You don't become infallible because you were right a few times. That's not how reality works. All we know about Vergeben is that he has "sources", half of whom are full of ****.

 

[RileyXY1]

Yeah no kidding. It's part of the reason why I prefer to believe Vergeben is half-lucky and half-informed. People embrace his words as gospel to the point where speculation about anything else seldom exists. Vergeben said Incineroar, so that apparently means it's no longer worth it to speculate about Decidueye or anyone else.

Nevermind that his resources could be flat out wrong. Which is still possible. Being correct and well-informed a few times does not logically mean that you will always be correct and well-informed forever about everything no matter what. People make mistakes. Luck runs out. It's not rocket science. You don't become infallible because you were right a few times. That's not how reality works. All we know about Vergeben is that he has "sources", half of whom are full of ****.

Especially considering that Vergeben got info for other games wrong.

 

[Mayoman]

Guys, do you think Sakurai would find more moveset potential and a more striking design from Decidueye rather than Incineroar?

 

[RileyXY1]

Guys, do you think Sakurai would find more moveset potential and a more striking design from Decidueye rather than Incineroar?

He might. Having a full moveset based on archery would be nice and unique.

 

[Deleted member]

This will be my final post here. Given recent events and Decidueye being pretty much decomfirmed by Vergeben I guess it's time to hit the old dusty trail.

Really happy I was on here happy to have discussed Decidueye and it's potential inclusion in the game, you guys we're fans of the archer owl and I was too I truly beloved it would get in but alas, should have thought a bit more of it's chances. It's my favourite Pokemon from my favourite region and games, that will not stop. So happy it was created I have it on my team, and it's in Pokken good enough for me.

Happy I met you guys you're great and hope some Pokemon we want gets in.

I like Incineroar and Lycanroc so if they get in I'm content. So that said so long and farewell.

 

[RileyXY1]

This will be my final post here. Given recent events and Decidueye being pretty much decomfirmed by Vergeben I guess it's time to hit the old dusty trail.

Really happy I was on here happy to have discussed Decidueye and it's potential inclusion in the game, you guys we're fans of the archer owl and I was too I truly beloved it would get in but alas, should have thought a bit more of it's chances. It's my favourite Pokemon from my favourite region and games, that will not stop. So happy it was created I have it on my team, and it's in Pokken good enough for me.

Happy I met you guys you're great and hope some Pokemon we want gets in.

I like Incineroar and Lycanroc so if they get in I'm content. So that said so long and farewell.

Decidueye still has a chance. Vergeben might get something wrong.

 

[DerErlenkonig]

Decidueye still has a chance. Vergeben might get something wrong.

Lordy I hope so. I genuinely hate Incineroar.

 

[RileyXY1]

Lordy I hope so. I genuinely hate Incineroar.

Yeah. Vergeben's word is not gospel and something might happen that will completely kill his credibility like what Robin/Lucina did to Gematsu.

 

[Deleted member]

If there's anything that ruins Vergeben's credibility, wonderful. That'd mean Decidueye still has a chance. But I don't have much hope for that at all. Sorry guys.
And I fully expect Incineroar's supporters to raid this thread when their sacred tiger god gets confirmed, just like Robin's supporters did to Chrom's.

 

[Deleted member]

If there's anything that ruins Vergeben's credibility, wonderful. That'd mean Decidueye still has a chance. But I don't have much hope for that at all. Sorry guys.
And I fully expect Incineroar's supporters to raid this thread when their sacred tiger god gets confirmed, just like Robin's supporters did to Chrom's.

Please.
You and a majority of the people here would do the exact same if the opposite happened with your "sacred owl god".
We get **** on damn near every other thread including here. You have no right to play the victim card.

 

[Klimax]

And I fully expect Incineroar's supporters to raid this thread when their sacred tiger god gets confirmed, just like Robin's supporters did to Chrom's.

No, not at all. I really want Incineroar in the game, that's all. I don't care about "being right" about the inclusion of a character on a video game, that, my friend, is for kids. Coming here to say "i WaS rIgHt LOL" would be just dumb, childish and meaningless. Real fans enjoy their character's presence, they don't care about the rest.

 

[Deleted member]

Please.
You and a majority of the people here would do the exact same if the opposite happened with your "sacred owl god".
We get **** on damn near every other thread including here. You have no right to play the victim card.

You of all people should know me better than this, Golden. I don't remember picking on Incineroar fans ever and I was even open to the idea of his inclusion at one point.
I'm not playing the victim card, I just know it's gonna happen.

No, not at all. I really want Incineroar in the game, that's all. I don't care about "being right" about the inclusion of a character on a video game, that, my friend, is for kids. Coming here to say "i WaS rIgHt LOL" would be just dumb, childish and meaningless. Real fans enjoy their character's presence, they don't care about the rest.

I didn't say all of the Incineroar supporters will probably do it. I was a bit angry when I typed this so I apologize if I sounded like I was generalizing the fanbase.

 

[Deleted member]

No, not at all. I really want Incineroar in the game, that's all. I don't care about "being right" about the inclusion of a character on a video game, that, my friend, is for kids. Coming here to say "i WaS rIgHt LOL" would be just dumb, childish and meaningless. Real fans enjoy their character's presence, they don't care about the rest.

Agreed.

I've been fighting the good fight for years now. All I want to do once there is a reveal is to just celebrate the victory of an uphill battle in my own thread.

 

[Deleted member]

Enjoy your inevitable victory, then. I'll have you know that some Incineroar supporters aren't as "nice" as you though.

 

[Opossum]

Enjoy your inevitable victory, then. I'll have you know that some Incineroar supporters aren't as "nice" as you though.

Dude...Incineroar has been nothing but a punching bag to a good amount of the Smash fandom. Where are you looking where the Incineroar fans are the antagonists?

 

[Deleted member]

Dude...Incineroar has been nothing but a punching bag to a good amount of the Smash fandom. Where are you looking where the Incineroar fans are the antagonists?

I'll have you know that I've been harassed and insulted over politely disagreeing with the idea of Incineroar being included.
That's why I'm being antagonistic. I've accepted that my character isn't getting in, and I'm not gonna make a fuss about it. I'm not gonna make a fuss about Incineroar's inclusion either, but I just know some people aren't going to care and still torment me over "losing".