All Purpose Donkey Kong Thread

[LiveStudioAudience]

It is hard to escape a sense that the Switch, like the DS, might be seen as a console that could have really been big for the DKC brand had it really put out an original game in the system's prime. Even if they were the second ports both games would be getting, something like re-releases of Jungle Beat and DKC Returns could have been something to at least keep the IP active. An HD version of the latter with the 3DS's content and the choice of waggle or traditional controls (thus making it the definitive version) could have at least satiated appeitites for a while.

 

[Diddy Kong]

To be fair, we did get the DKC SNES trilogy yet again, so that makes the Switch a console that probably has all the most critically acclaimed titles of DKC on the system, with Tropical Freeze. DK64 and Returns would also be really welcome yes, but I'd settle for any kind of spin-off as Barrel Blast, Jungle Climber or yes, Jungle Beat. Those where good quality games , and with this drought am missing them more.

 

[Quillion]

To be fair, we did get the DKC SNES trilogy yet again, so that makes the Switch a console that probably has all the most critically acclaimed titles of DKC on the system, with Tropical Freeze. DK64 and Returns would also be really welcome yes, but I'd settle for any kind of spin-off as Barrel Blast, Jungle Climber or yes, Jungle Beat. Those where good quality games , and with this drought am missing them more.

Spin-offs would be nice, but with how scrawny the recent Mario spin-offs feel now, I can't imagine how anemic a DK spin-off would be.

Given how solid the GCN and Wii Mario spin-offs are, is it possible that the development cost surge of HD's advent threw a wrench into the usual development of Mario spin-offs?

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Spin-offs would be nice, but with how scrawny the recent Mario spin-offs feel now, I can't imagine how anemic a DK spin-off would be.

Given how solid the GCN and Wii Mario spin-offs are, is it possible that the development cost surge of HD's advent threw a wrench into the usual development of Mario spin-offs?

It pretty much threw a wrench in the spin-off quality and quantity of many franchises.

The shift to HD development ended up being a struggle for a lot of companies, particularly Japanese ones. The 7th and early 8th gens are filled with fairly competent developers going through a bit of a low point as the cost of HD titles (and in some Eastern cases ill advised attempt to Westernize) let to a few disappointing outings. Simply getting titles out on time and under budget was much more of a challenge and in some ways the constant "real is brown" phenomenon was the result of companies going for the popular safe aesthetic because flops were now much more devastating due to the involved resources. Even the Wii-U's eventual failure was arguably somewhat rooted in Nintendo not having the same ability and speed to get out major games with any real frequency to the point where the market simply didn't see a real future for the system.

The eventual loss of non-mobile portable games hasn't helped. A lot of creative experiments were possible because general development on the GBA/DS/3DS/PSP/Vita was generally cheaper and (especially for Nintendo) often had a bigger install base than home consoles. Its when you could see interesting side games from Mario, Sonic, Mega Man, Bomberman, Zelda, Final Fantasy, Fire Emblem, Metal Gear, etc. They were means of utilizing the brand name in interesting ways without necessarily being too damaging if the game failed. Its why I lamented DKC not getting an original DS platformer because it was the perfect console to take a small risk on with a new game. If it had worked out, who knows how many new fans it could have created?

Both of these factors help explain why AA games are only just now starting to come back with any real consistency (and as noted, the Mario sports ones are hardly the most complete releases at launch). There's no portable only option where a major franchise can put out modestly budgeted games for decent returns, so mid-level titles (now after 15 or so years of learning the ins and outs of HD development costs) are the most practical means for that unless you're just willing to do mobile stuff.

 

[Quillion]

Both of these factors help explain why AA games are only just now starting to come back with any real consistency

Apparently Valheim is one of the higher-profile examples of that, but what other examples of single A or AA games have been getting good press?

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Apparently Valheim is one of the higher-profile examples of that, but what other examples of single A or AA games have been getting good press?

I'd say that Square Enix has finally fully transitioned into effectively taking advantage of more modest stuff for home consoles (especially for Switch) with some regularity. Octopath, Triangle Strategy, Harvestella; all clearly worlds away from the big budgets of the Final Fantasy entries or Kingdom Hearts, but becoming quietly performing titles that are finding their audiences. Or for another example It Takes Two had clear work put into it, but its also a less expensive title that essentially overperformed in critical and commercial success.

My personal suspicion is that one of the reasons the Switch is thriving in the Japanese market is that certain third parties are in a position to release budgeted games on the system and still be profitable because of the install base. Heck, Momotaro Dentetsu (depending on how you define the level) may barely even qualify as AA, yet its the second best selling third party Switch title in Japan behind MH Rise.

Other people more familar with the PC gaming scene than I could also likely point to the loads of AA releases on Steam that have become very consistent hits for different developers.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

The news of Kirby & the Forgotten Land's big sales has me considering something I'd been fairly neutral about before; is a three dimensional DK game a bit of a necessity for the series to have its big comeback?

For the longest time, I never really believed that 2D vs. 3D was that critical a question, given that the game's strong core identity as a kinetic and challenging platformer was the most important factor. But seeing the how big Forgotten Land is and the fact that I've seen so many people saying they either didn't play much Kirby or didn't really get into until this newest game now has me increasingly wondering if a 3D DKC title would the kind of release that would both do big numbers and effectively sell the concept of the series to so many new fans. With the lingering mixed feelings about DK64 now largely a distant memory and loads of games since demonstrating that challenging 3D platformers can find an audience, it does have me finally thinking that a fantastic 2D title, no matter how well done, just won't have the same impact on a mass audience like a Forgotten Land equivalent to DKC would.

 

[Quillion]

The news of Kirby & the Forgotten Land's big sales has me considering something I'd been fairly neutral about before; is a three dimensional DK game a bit of a necessity for the series to have its big comeback?

For the longest time, I never really believed that 2D vs. 3D was that critical a question, given that the game's strong core identity as a kinetic and challenging platformer was the most important factor. But seeing the how big Forgotten Land is and the fact that I've seen so many people saying they either didn't play much Kirby or didn't really get into until this newest game now has me increasingly wondering if a 3D DKC title would the kind of release that would both do big numbers and effectively sell the concept of the series to so many new fans. With the lingering mixed feelings about DK64 now largely a distant memory and loads of games since demonstrating that challenging 3D platformers can find an audience, it does have me finally thinking that a fantastic 2D title, no matter how well done, just won't have the same impact on a mass audience like a Forgotten Land equivalent to DKC would.

I've been advocating for a 3D Donkey Kong game that takes after Crash Bandicoot-style "corridor platformer" gameplay as opposed to the mini-sandbox design of Banjo-Kazooie.

I think the former would fit DK a lot better than the latter. Heck, the two DKCR games even have a time trial mode almost completely ripped from Crash.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I think DK can sustain a 3D and 2D franchise. Much like I presume Kirby will and Mario does.

Will a new 3D game garner a lot of attention? Definitely. But the right kind of 2D game will too. 3D is probably the easier to accomplish though. It's hard to dismiss a title as "another DKC" game when it's nothing like the rest.

Also DK64 is good, fight me.

 

[Diddy Kong]

The news of Kirby & the Forgotten Land's big sales has me considering something I'd been fairly neutral about before; is a three dimensional DK game a bit of a necessity for the series to have its big comeback?

For the longest time, I never really believed that 2D vs. 3D was that critical a question, given that the game's strong core identity as a kinetic and challenging platformer was the most important factor. But seeing the how big Forgotten Land is and the fact that I've seen so many people saying they either didn't play much Kirby or didn't really get into until this newest game now has me increasingly wondering if a 3D DKC title would the kind of release that would both do big numbers and effectively sell the concept of the series to so many new fans. With the lingering mixed feelings about DK64 now largely a distant memory and loads of games since demonstrating that challenging 3D platformers can find an audience, it does have me finally thinking that a fantastic 2D title, no matter how well done, just won't have the same impact on a mass audience like a Forgotten Land equivalent to DKC would.

Excellent take, maybe it's just that, and Kirby and Zelda have been obstacles for DK to release, or releasing then stimulaniously would be bad for marketing.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

I'm not one to post reviews of titles in the series without a good reason, and I think this look at DK64 by SomeCallMeJohnny feels warranted. Is on the long side and doesn't quite go into as much background detail about the game as I'd prefer, but its an effective look at the game from a relative outsider while illustrating both the games strengths, and why the exact execution of the collectables is so divisive. If nothing else its a fair estimation of DK64 and I'd recommend anyone not familar with the game to potentially watch to get a feel for it before playing.

 

[InASnowBoundLand]

Nov 21, which is today in Japan, marks DKC2's 27th and Diddy Kong Racing's 25th anniversaries in that country.
Check out these artworks by Bluefrog9090 and zakura78.

スーパードンキーコング2発売27周年おめでとう🐊🌋ようがんクロコジャンプは名曲！大好きだー！！#スーパードンキーコング2 #スパドン2 #ディディーコング #ディクシーコング pic.twitter.com/Gnkr8ymsk6

— あおがえる (@Bluefrog9090) November 20, 2022

ディディーコングレーシング25周年✨️🎈🐒🚗💨
レアな仲間たちがいっぱいだ#DiddyKongRacing25th#RareRacers #FANART pic.twitter.com/Pk726BZFHr

— 𝓡•𝓚 (@RarewareRrrrr) November 20, 2022

 

[BirthNote]

SnowBound has done an EXCELLENT job keeping Dixie's Twitter page alive! Whatever happens to that site, I have to point out that SnowBound REALLY took the reigns even during the DK droughts.

Thank you very much InASnowBoundLand you've been great for years.

 

[Ridley_Prime]

The Kongsequences of Stamper saying "No, more things!" and overall one of the best game retrospective videos in awhile.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

It is amazing to realize how much DK64's identity was tied to its specific era. It couldn't just be a buddy Kong system because Banjo-Kazooie had effectively done that, the hype of 3D platformers necessitated going bigger to outdo the competition, and recent expectation of new Kongs meant not just new characters, but one's effectively replaced to boot. There's a very fascinating what if scenario of the 2.5D game coming out then and a 3D Donkey not happening until the mid aughts when so many of the aforementioned contexts were not longer relevant to the gaming scene.

 

[BirthNote]

The Kongsequences of Stamper saying "No, more things!" and overall one of the best game retrospective videos in awhile.

I'm glad they touched on the "DK64 killed 3D platformers" myth. To pretend it did ignores the 3D platformers that came out all the way up to 2007 and the GROUNDBREAKING success of Halo, GTA3 and eventually CoD. Those games proved to developers there was more money in those genres than platforming could ever give.

 

[BirthNote]

We got DK, Cranky, and Luigi's debut in the Mario movie! I like DK's design but I wish he had a slightly larger brow. Otherwise it looks good, movie seems to be slapstick primarily which can be fun. Luigi seems to be more of a damsel than Peach.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Apparently a bunch of Kongs are being spotted in the background of the Kart scene; including Funky and Kiddy.

Provided Dixie also shows up, I completely approve.

 

[InASnowBoundLand]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fixqht2UYAAOXNG?format=png&name=360x360

Dixie, Diddy, and Swanky kongfirmed!!!

 

[Laniv]

Good news, everyone: Diddy Kong, Dixie Kong, and Swanky Kong(!!!) have been spotted on DK's poster!

 

[BirthNote]

Great news! I wonder if they'll have their movie wardrobes going forward

 

[Diddy Kong]

The wait makes sense now !!! Am so relieved, and I believe again! Never would have dreamed that DK and the Kongs all would make such appearances.

Good is coming !

 

[InASnowBoundLand]

To be honest, I'm not liking the wardrobe changes that much, particularly Dixie looks a little Dora the Explorerfied. To be fair, that's just a blurry pic, so we'll see.

I notice that the overall effect is that they all look more "clothed" and less "naked". I wonder if that was the intent? Like maybe there is something weird about them being aggressively pantsless in the movie. Maybe it's more noticeable. Or maybe they just wanted to have fun with a unique opportunity.

Donkey Kong's design I feel is fun and I think looks better in motion. I think I would have made the brow closer to the DKC model personally, but it works in the context.

Cranky being king or something is interesting. That there are so many Kongs is interesting. There's a Kongsona FOR EVERYONE.

 

[Quillion]

Putting the DK crew in the Mario Movie seems a little premature if you ask me.

Now it just seems overstuffed.

 

[fogbadge]

Putting the DK crew in the Mario Movie seems a little premature if you ask me.

Now it just seems overstuffed.

Just wait til wario and co turn up

 

[Quillion]

Just wait til wario and co turn up

I don't recall; is Wario confirmed to appear?

 

[fogbadge]

I don't recall; is Wario confirmed to appear?

No but with this many cameos it’s a dead cert

 

[Quillion]

No but with this many cameos it’s a dead cert

Hopefully they'll just be cameos.

Don't want an Eternals situation where there's too many important characters. There's only so much you can do in feature runtime.

 

[Lenidem]

Hopefully they'll just be cameos.

Don't want an Eternals situation where there's too many important characters. There's only so much you can do in feature runtime.

I'm with you on that.

Do I want to see Wario and Waluigi on the big screen? Heck yeah! But there is only so much you can squeeze in a movie without it going in all directions and feel disconnected. It's already incredible to see all those Kongs and Mario Kart on top of the power-ups and stage elements from the mainline Mario games. So maybe we'll see them at the very end, or in a mid/post-credit scene to tease a sequel, or they will just be aluded to so their first apparition will have that much more impact later.

I'm really interested in this movie anyway, and I am usually super cautious, especially about video games adaptations.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Mario and DK share the same origin. And there hasn't been anything worthwhile for DK in a long time. I don't see anything wrong with it, and it has been long confirmed DK and Cranky would make an appearance. Well here they are, and every other Kong too. And am happy for it cause outside of this we had nothing.

 

[Lenidem]

Mario and DK share the same origin. And there hasn't been anything worthwhile for DK in a long time. I don't see anything wrong with it, and it has been long confirmed DK and Cranky would make an appearance. Well here they are, and every other Kong too. And am happy for it cause outside of this we had nothing.

Don't someone said something negative about the DK Crew showing up? All I could read about it was very enthousiastic.

 

[fogbadge]

Don't someone said something negative about the DK Crew showing up? All I could read about it was very enthousiastic.

It was probably me I’m always negative

 

[Quillion]

Mario and DK share the same origin. And there hasn't been anything worthwhile for DK in a long time. I don't see anything wrong with it, and it has been long confirmed DK and Cranky would make an appearance. Well here they are, and every other Kong too. And am happy for it cause outside of this we had nothing.

I'm just hoping the DK crew's role won't take up too much of the movie.

I don't mind DK stuff showing up in Mario stuff; I actually embrace it. But DK is a lot stronger as a franchise when he stands on his own like Wario and unlike Luigi's Mansion and Yoshi.

 

[Diddy Kong]

If it takes DK to be absorbed into the Mario franchise to get it's proper respect, am for it. If this is a sign of things to come, it's better than having nothing. And we had plenty of nothings already. Being absorbed into the Mario franchise which gets all the love and attention from Nintendo might actually be a good thing, cause we know at least we're getting stuff, and good quality stuff even. I mean, Kiddy and Swanky are back! Cranky has a wicked redesign, we had it way worse before.

 

[fogbadge]

If it takes DK to be absorbed into the Mario franchise to get it's proper respect, am for it. If this is a sign of things to come, it's better than having nothing. And we had plenty of nothings already. Being absorbed into the Mario franchise which gets all the love and attention from Nintendo might actually be a good thing, cause we know at least we're getting stuff, and good quality stuff even. I mean, Kiddy and Swanky are back! Cranky has a wicked redesign, we had it way worse before.

what do you mean absorbed into? it already is

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

DK and Wario both crossover with Mario in the spin-offs but their mainline games largely operate outside what's seen in any non-sports/party/kart title. When's the last time the Rambi popped up in NSMB or the Koopa Troopas doing in a cameo in a DKC release?

As far as the Kongs in the Mario movie, I think their inclusion makes complete sense, because they fulfill a lot of necessary elements for the story and setting. Its likely that film is about Mario gradually rising to the challenge of becoming the Mushroom Kingdom hero, and a battle against the likes of DK can easily be a part of that especially given the outside narrative context.

Donkey Kong (and the extended family/cast) are distinct in identity to casuals, well known to hardcore fans, and if they're set up as having their own particular setting, then a story can easily move on from them without much fuss (because they may not be part of the actual Mushroom Kingdom forces) while also potentially bring them back in the climax (with them as the cavalry against Bowser's forces) or in sequels/spin-offs now that they're established.

Moreover for the purposes of using Mario connected uiniverses they're simply an easier sell to mass audiences than Wario/Wario Ware characters (which are fantastic but need a bit more set--up to explain their odd characteristics) or Yoshi ones (which share so many elements to Mario that they lack the same kind of uniqueness DK and company offer). Their entire nature allows a Mario movie to drop into their world for a bit and be effective while hopefully leaving enough of an impression to make a Donkey Kong oriented spin-off (or at the very least a return in the sequel) appealing.

 

[Quillion]

DK and Wario both crossover with Mario in the spin-offs but their mainline games largely operate outside what's seen in any non-sports/party/kart title. When's the last time the Rambi popped up in NSMB or the Koopa Troopas doing in a cameo in a DKC release?

As far as the Kongs in the Mario movie, I think their inclusion makes complete sense, because they fulfill a lot of necessary elements for the story and setting. Its likely that film is about Mario gradually rising to the challenge of becoming the Mushroom Kingdom hero, and a battle against the likes of DK can easily be a part of that especially given the outside narrative context.

Donkey Kong (and the extended family/cast) are distinct in identity to casuals, well known to hardcore fans, and if they're set up as having their own particular setting, then a story can easily move on from them without much fuss (because they may not be part of the actual Mushroom Kingdom forces) while also potentially bring them back in the climax (with them as the cavalry against Bowser's forces) or in sequels/spin-offs now that they're established.

Moreover for the purposes of using Mario connected uiniverses they're simply an easier sell to mass audiences than Wario/Wario Ware characters (which are fantastic but need a bit more set--up to explain their odd characteristics) or Yoshi ones (which share so many elements to Mario that they lack the same kind of uniqueness DK and company offer). Their entire nature allows a Mario movie to drop into their world for a bit and be effective while hopefully leaving enough of an impression to make a Donkey Kong oriented spin-off (or at the very least a return in the sequel) appealing.

That's the thing. I hope that only DK and maybe Cranky play anything resembling important roles, and even then just some kind of "threshold guardian" kind of deal where they need to train Mario. I don't want DK Island to be a Cantonica.

 

[Diddy Kong]

DK Island is confirmed to be a neighbouring island to the Mushroom Kingdom. You see it on the part where Peach formulates a battle plan.

Anyway, said it before and I'll say it again, this appearance of Cranky especially with this wicked redesign means he's currently the front runner for new DK characters in Smash.

 

[BirthNote]

DK Island is confirmed to be a neighbouring island to the Mushroom Kingdom. You see it on the part where Peach formulates a battle plan.

Anyway, said it before and I'll say it again, this appearance of Cranky especially with this wicked redesign means he's currently the front runner for new DK characters in Smash.

That's jumping the gun. Unless he gets heavy marketing focus leading up to release we can't call who's the frontrunner until the movie comes out and we see audience responses. As a disclaimer I'm not holding out hope for Dixie and trying to discredit Cranky. It's simply too early to call it and Funky can just as easily steal the show.

 

[fogbadge]

That's jumping the gun. Unless he gets heavy marketing focus leading up to release we can't call who's the frontrunner until the movie comes out and we see audience responses. As a disclaimer I'm not holding out hope for Dixie and trying to discredit Cranky. It's simply too early to call it and Funky can just as easily steal the show.

If it helps I’m inclined to agree with you and I support cranky the most. I just don’t see the movie having much influence on the next smash unless they’re making it right now. Otherwise the film is likely to be old news by then, either cause of a sequel or cause nintendo pictures collapses