Air Tripping - Now without video proof (yet again)...

[Evil E.]

Wut the hell is the debate?!?

if you can trip in the air you can trip in the air....

wow.

 

[Hitaku]

Wut the hell is the debate?!?

if you can trip in the air you can trip in the air....

wow.

The debate's no longer focusing on whether it exists, but rather what the trip is caused by.


I'm not calling anyone a liar with what I am about to say, it's just that many people in this thread have been mistaken about what they thought were air trips. I believe with the game just coming out in the US we are going to be flooded with what people think are air trips, when in reality they are not. If you think you air tripped and you would like to share your experience please do so in more ways than just "I air tripped today". Please try to explain what you were doing before the trip, what animation the trip caused caused, what you were able to do while in the trip, and what your opponent was doing at the time. More video footage would be really helpful with figuring out the cause of this. That being said, if you can record your matches try and do so. If you see anything that you think looks like an air trip throw it on Youtube.

Edit: Please make sure its not just a footstool hop first though, we already have way too many of those videos lol.

 

[MadSkillz0753]

I've experienced it several times as fox.

 

[Hitaku]

I've experienced it several times as fox.

Not trying to be mean when I say this, but this is a good example of what I was talking about above.

You say you have had it happen several times, even though I have only had it happen once and I have had the game for around a month. You also specify that it's with Fox, so I can't help but think your talking about Fox's Illusion which would cause you to just fall after use (using the illusion as an example of a move that would cause a new player confusion).

If you're sure about what you said then please feel free to repost giving a better example of what you experienced. The things I said could be very wrong, and if so I apologize, but as it stands from the post, thats how it looks. Again, please go into detail, guys.

 

[saud]

I think I air tripped by Kirby a few nights ago, I'm not 100% sure though. It might have been the situation where you simply can't attack after losing your jumps and beign attacked (or soemthing like that.) I remember I was in the air and was returning back to the stage; I was tryign to perform a B move (not sure if B up or Hammer.) And a while later after I was fallign I managed to perform the neutral A (I think, was in maginified view, so it migth have been kirby just rolling in the air,)

 

[Remian]

I was playing online with a friend using a fox. He was in the air and then he literally stopped in midair and plummeted to the ground. He didn't question it or anything, but I forgot to save the replay.

 

[Heppy]

I said that I wasn't sure the exact buttons pressed, however I do have a good idea. Like I said, at the time of trip I was going to recover towards Olimar with an Up+B. This tells me that I was probably pressing forward and I was inputting Up+B at some point very close to the trip.

Oh, well Im glad you remembered.
But if what Im suggesting is correct than what you did after the trip doesnt play any real significance. What I think happened to you in the sonic vid is:
When you were teetering on the edge of the platform you smashed over on the control stick to get off. That smash initiated a dash, which of course didnt really seem too apparent since you were on the platform for less than half a second after said smash. That dash just happened to be that 1% chance trip. So essentially you tripped regularly, but since you were teetering you didnt land on the platform because it was hardly underneath you. And as you probably know you cant input any moves after a trip until the invicibiliy frames have ended.

So in summary; you dashed from a teeter, the dash happened to be a trip, and because of your teeter the trip didnt land on ground.
At least that seems the most logical thing to me. But of course, I could be wrong. ^_^'

 

[Heppy]

As Hitaku later said, he has a pretty good idea.

Also, how many inputs can there possibly be?! Look at Sonic! He's clearly grounded, so aerials aren't even in the running. There are only so many attacks on the ground in Brawl. And Hitaku's tested them all out several times!

This isn't rocket science!

If you read the post above, it will explain that what Im suggesting doesnt involve any attacks. Just a simple dash.

 

[MysticKenji]

Luigi's FS can cause Air Trips.
Did it to a CPU 2 days ago.

 

[Yuna]

If you read the post above, it will explain that what Im suggesting doesnt involve any attacks. Just a simple dash.

What part of Hitaku has tried to replicate this are you not getting He's put Sonic at the ledge and done everything possible. That's also not Sonic tripping. When you trip, you do not trip in a direction, you trip downwards. It's like how if you're teethering when you fall asleep, you don't fall off the stage.

Also, there was absolutely no tripping animation whatsoever.

Luigi's FS can cause Air Trips.
Did it to a CPU 2 days ago.

No, they just go dizzy (what happens when your shield breaks). Only instead of flying up first, they just start falling downwards.

 

[Hitaku]

Oh, well Im glad you remembered.
But if what Im suggesting is correct than what you did after the trip doesnt play any real significance. What I think happened to you in the sonic vid is:
When you were teetering on the edge of the platform you smashed over on the control stick to get off. That smash initiated a dash, which of course didnt really seem too apparent since you were on the platform for less than half a second after said smash. That dash just happened to be that 1% chance trip. So essentially you tripped regularly, but since you were teetering you didnt land on the platform because it was hardly underneath you. And as you probably know you cant input any moves after a trip until the invicibiliy frames have ended.

So in summary; you dashed from a teeter, the dash happened to be a trip, and because of your teeter the trip didnt land on ground.
At least that seems the most logical thing to me. But of course, I could be wrong. ^_^'

I pressed down on the control stick to drop through the stage. I really don't think it has anything to do with me being on the platform. If you notice, after I drop through there is a good period of time where I am falling perfectly fine. Only when I get farther down do I do an air trip. Tripping on the ground is something that happens instantly, I don't see why air tripping would be any different.

Edit: Also, if you ground trip next to a ledge like that you would still do the tripping animation. I know if you ground trip next to a normal ledge that can be grabbed you just kinda roll in place. I'm not 100% sure about ledges that cannot be grabbed, but even if it wasn't the same I would assume you would just trip off.

 

[blizzard138]

If this is infact true, which I believe it is, this is stupid. Wtf is the point in tripping to begin with...

 

[Eggm]

The point is to add a random element to the game that equalizes skill level. This way everyone can compete and "Have fun".

 

[Hitaku]

The point is to add a random element to the game that equalizes skill level. This way everyone can compete and "Have fun".

Aka the worst idea ever brought to any smash game. =/

 

[JJBro1]

isn't he just doing an air dodge? That is the animation for sonics air dodge

 

[Yuna]

isn't he just doing an air dodge? That is the animation for sonics air dodge

No, he didn't. For one thing, he didn't flash.

 

[Metzger]

I think this was a fluke or something. That animation is the exact same one that happens if Sonic is footstool jumped in mid-air. I've not seen a single "air trip" and my game clock is about to tick over to three digits (sometime tomorrow afternoon I'd guess).

Since I do this for a living, maybe I can help you guys test this if you really believe there's anything more to it (I don't think there is). Curious about the video added to the OP - is it a WFC match or was it local? I ask because it kind of looks to me like a de-sync that occurred during online play; if you think about what happens right before he "air trips", you see him dash then cancel his dash before he moves off the platform. If the de-sync had occurred right at this time, Olimar's client probably could have received that data incorrectly. If it had been delayed even a fraction of a second, on the other client Sonic probably would have ended up right about where Olimar had jumped, as Sonic's dash would have carried him just off the platform and onto the main stage. Since the other client would have Sonic's position next to Olimar, when he jumped it probably triggered a footstool reaction on Sonic's client, sending him into a footstool freefall.

Obviously, all that wouldn't apply if it were being played locally and not over Wi-Fi.

 

[Heppy]

I pressed down on the control stick to drop through the stage. I really don't think it has anything to do with me being on the platform. If you notice, after I drop through there is a good period of time where I am falling perfectly fine. Only when I get farther down do I do an air trip. Tripping on the ground is something that happens instantly, I don't see why air tripping would be any different.

Edit: Also, if you ground trip next to a ledge like that you would still do the tripping animation. I know if you ground trip next to a normal ledge that can be grabbed you just kinda roll in place. I'm not 100% sure about ledges that cannot be grabbed, but even if it wasn't the same I would assume you would just trip off.

oh, well then disregard my theory. I didnt know that your air-trip was after you fell, I thought it was the reason you fell. Thanks for being patient with me though.

 

[Heppy]

I think this was a fluke or something. That animation is the exact same one that happens if Sonic is footstool jumped in mid-air. I've not seen a single "air trip" and my game clock is about to tick over to three digits (sometime tomorrow afternoon I'd guess).

Since I do this for a living, maybe I can help you guys test this if you really believe there's anything more to it (I don't think there is). Curious about the video added to the OP - is it a WFC match or was it local? I ask because it kind of looks to me like a de-sync that occurred during online play; if you think about what happens right before he "air trips", you see him dash then cancel his dash before he moves off the platform. If the de-sync had occurred right at this time, Olimar's client probably could have received that data incorrectly. If it had been delayed even a fraction of a second, on the other client Sonic probably would have ended up right about where Olimar had jumped, as Sonic's dash would have carried him just off the platform and onto the main stage. Since the other client would have Sonic's position next to Olimar, when he jumped it probably triggered a footstool reaction on Sonic's client, sending him into a footstool freefall.

Obviously, all that wouldn't apply if it were being played locally and not over Wi-Fi.

But would the de-sync also account for us not seeing olimars footstool jump animation?

 

[cmart]

I realize this seems to be a heated topic, and I don't have any video proof, but I believe I air-tripped with puff. My opponent was not near me (as in halfway across the stage and on a vastly different height level), I was midair attempting to jump, and I tumbled, fell to my butt, and had to roll up. This sounds similar to Yuna's experience. Since I didn't know what was happening, I didn't attempt to recover before landing (I was above ground anyway).

 

[Yuna]

I realize this seems to be a heated topic, and I don't have any video proof, but I believe I air-tripped with puff. My opponent was not near me (as in halfway across the stage and on a vastly different height level), I was midair attempting to jump, and I tumbled, fell to my butt, and had to roll up. This sounds similar to Yuna's experience. Since I didn't know what was happening, I didn't attempt to recover before landing (I was above ground anyway).

Thank you for substantiating what I've said. Now we're two who have experienced the exact same thing.

I guess someone's going to claim Jigglypuff's multiple jumps must somehow be a factor or claim that she's got a hidden glide sometime soon.

 

[Metzger]

But would the de-sync also account for us not seeing olimars footstool jump animation?

It's possible, yes. If it was a Wi-Fi match, it would be most useful to have seen what was occurring on the other player's client.

Given that there is no other real proof that this has ever occurred, I find it hard to believe this is anything intentional on part of the game engine. Especially considering how frequently ground tripping occurs in comparison.

 

[Yuna]

What kind of desynch would that be? The game assumed Olimar footstooled when he didn't? Why haven't people complained about it more if that's so common?

It wasn't over Wi-Fi. Hitaku would've said so if it was.

And who cares if it's intentional or not? The fact that it exists is stupid enough.

 

[Metzger]

What kind of desynch would that be? The game assumed Olimar footstooled when he didn't? Why haven't people complained about it more if that's so common?

It wasn't over Wi-Fi. Hitaku would've said so if it was.

And who cares if it's intentional or not? The fact that it exists is stupid enough.

Who said it was common? Obviously it's not considering we've just had a very long discussion about this one shred of evidence we have and the lack of other experiences with this phenomenon. The game itself actually has pretty sound de-synchronization techniques (it's part of the reason the game literally slows down when under heavy packet loss during Wi-Fi). However no system is perfect, and would make reproducing something like this almost impossible as we don't know what kind of interference would have caused it.

I'm not arguing that it's not stupid, only that it is likely not a mechanic of the game that characters trip in the air. Like I mentioned, I've already put almost 100 hours onto my file and have never seen this occur in any match, so it's not something I think is going to influence competitive play. There are bigger fish to fry when it comes to Brawl and random factors coming into play.

 

[buenob]

happened here too

Hi, just wanted to say that I've also experienced air tripping... I was practicing snakedashing with a friend and I hit him off the edge of the level, as falco I was walking back to the center when my friend started spamming air moves with peach, he then started to fall in the tumbling animation, and he could not UpB, I thought he was ******** but i watched him mash UpB until he died.

He did not even jump, I hit him up, he spammed some moves, he fell, couldn't UpB. Unfortunately he didn't try any other moves since he was mashing the recovery move.

 

[S2]

Wow, I hope we find out what causes this. Do you suppose that its unique to certain characters or situations?

 

[Foxy_Marth]

I have bad luck or something, I trip in the air on occasion, I trip at least once a match. Once I tripped twice in a 3 minute match.

And finally an explanatiion for what happens in the air. My bro was like `` WHAT THE HELL, I tripped in the air`` I didnt believe him at first, but now I do...

 

[kooky]

is there any video proof other than the one in the first post? I didn't read the whole thread so i'm sorry if this was asked already. If there isn't any other proof can someone please make another video of it happening? Like you Foxy, if it happens at least once in a match to you it shouldn't be hard for you to film it. Thanks in advance to anyone who makes another video.

 

[SAMaine]

Aka the worst idea ever brought to any smash game. =/

Yes, there should be no fun in Smash!

Either way, SOMEONE give us more videos than Hitaku's! Not to say Hitaku is a liar, but it would be more helpful if we have more examples of air-tripping! Geeze!

Either way, I'd say just allow a do-over if someone dies by tripping in the air. It's obvious that it is extremely rare from the lack of details so far.

 

[Scufo]

Just wanted to verify this. In my four days of owning Brawl I've experienced air tripping once. As Zelda, in an offline game on FD against the AI, I tried to recover starting with my double jump, but instead of jumping, Zelda decided it would be better to instead begin tumbling downwards, falling to her death. The controller rumbled when I tried to do my double jump and tripped. I don't know if I could have up B'd afterwards - I was too dumbfounded by the game not obeying my input.

 

[Hitaku]

Obviously, all that wouldn't apply if it were being played locally and not over Wi-Fi.

It was local.

Just wanted to verify this. In my four days of owning Brawl I've experienced air tripping once. As Zelda, in an offline game on FD against the AI, I tried to recover starting with my double jump, but instead of jumping, Zelda decided it would be better to instead begin tumbling downwards, falling to her death. The controller rumbled when I tried to do my double jump and tripped. I don't know if I could have up B'd afterwards - I was too dumbfounded by the game not obeying my input.

You know...I didn't think about the controller rumble. Its been a little while from when it happened, but I think mine rumbled for me as well (not something important, just more possible info). This event sounds similar to what happened to me.

When this happens to you guys, make sure and try different things. I know its very random, and there isn't much time. But try to do as much as you can while in the trip. We know it exists, the only thing left for us to discover is the cause and a way to deal with it.

 

[Yuna]

Wow, 3 people confirming they've air tripping in two days. Finally some fresh blood. Too bad it's so random and unexpected we never remember to save the replay >_<'.

 

[_X_]

I don't know why air tripping is such a shock. It happened to me one of the first times I played.

I was just like ... "Oh."

I though it was an air dodge at first.

 

[Heppy]

Thank you for substantiating what I've said. Now we're two who have experienced the exact same thing.

I guess someone's going to claim Jigglypuff's multiple jumps must somehow be a factor or claim that she's got a hidden glide sometime soon.

If that was a punch at me, I wasnt trying to start anything.
You dont know why it happened either and thats what we're all here trying to figuire out...

 

[Yuna]

If that was a punch at me, I wasnt trying to start anything.
You dont know why it happened either and thats what we're all here trying to figuire out...

But I know what didn't happen. But no matter how much I tried to tell you, you kept saying "You're wrong!" 'til Hitaku finally stepped in.

 

[Demi]

Well, I have seen this happen about 3 times. Only to sonic for some reason. >.> Once to myself when I was playing sonic for the hell of it, and it happened twice to my friend who plays as sonic a lot. His reaction was... freaking out because he couldn't do anything and died lol.

 

[Yuna]

Well, I have seen this happen about 3 times. Only to sonic for some reason. >.> Once to myself when I was playing sonic for the hell of it, and it happened twice to my friend who plays as sonic a lot. His reaction was... freaking out because he couldn't do anything and died lol.

Before anyone claims it's Sonic-specific, remember the other people who've said they've experienced it? Some guy experienced it as Jigglypuff, for example.

 

[Metzger]

I don't mean any offense, but I don't think we should just be taking peoples' claims at face value.

My concern here is that dedicated testing is not reproducing this at all. We aren't any closer to an answer than when we started after Hitaku's video.

Any other variables that people can offer - even things they don't think would affect the situation - would be appreciated. So far none of my tests have successfully reproduced what was shown.

If anyone experiences this in the future, please try to remember to save the replay of your match, and report here with as many details regarding your match as possible.

 

[Mama]

This seems interesting I suppose. At first I just thought "who cares" but if its even a remote possibility I'll keep an eye out for it and be sure to post if it happens. I didn't read every post though. Does air tripping totally gimp your recovery? If so thats pretty ********. Randomly dying for absolutely no reason. I hope this is just a string of odd coincidences.

 

[Yuna]

This seems interesting I suppose. At first I just thought "who cares" but if its even a remote possibility I'll keep an eye out for it and be sure to post if it happens. I didn't read every post though. Does air tripping totally gimp your recovery? If so thats pretty ********. Randomly dying for absolutely no reason. I hope this is just a string of odd coincidences.

The people who've actually managed to try to Up B (I've never air tripped without ground below me and without being close enough to the ground that I had the time to react and try to Up B) have all said that Up B:ing does not work.