Air Dodge Appears to have an FAF that occurs prior to the Auto-Cancel Window

[reslived]

I didn't know this had already been discovered... Just made a new video about it today. I tried to show off some of the heavier implications of the tech.

Vote to change the name to "Dodge Cancelling?"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmDkNkNPWYY

 

[DeLux]

I didn't know this had already been discovered... Just made a new video about it today. I tried to show off some of the heavier implications of the tech.

Vote to change the name to "Dodge Cancelling?"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmDkNkNPWYY

You should probably attribute it to someone else besides me in your video. The earliest documentation that I've found of someone mentioning this was Kprime, but it may have been someone else. I thought it was a pretty interesting mechanic that not many people knew about.

The "name" is an ongoing tongue-in-cheek joke about certain smashers tendencies to name a "discovery" something nonsensical or worse after themselves. It's been an on-going joke of mine on smashboards for... almost 4 years now. So I don't think a name change vote is warranted since I don't think it needs a name.

 

[Thinkaman]

Nope, it's DeLux cancelling. GG, no takebacks.

inb4 Delux cancelling cancelling

 

[Blueye]

So instead of brawls landing with airdodges we now land with an airdodge followed up by an autocancelled aerial? intersting. nice find!

 

[reslived]

I'm only talking about the specific execution that I've mentioned. Using an autocancelled aerial to interrupt the airdodge and land with NO lag would be a dodge cancel. Landing with an aerial or aerial lag would just be missing a dodge cancel or just interrupting an airdodge or something basic like that.

 

[reslived]

Also, a friend of mine just discovered that Dodge Cancelling has a unique effect on Rosalina, wherein that while Rosalina will autocancel an aerial, Luma will still do the attack. This is the easiest way to tell if you did the technique correctly with her.

 

[Untouch]

This is really good, will help characters without a projectile.
I don't know how in any way this helps defensively because it lets characters approach easily.

 

[Pikabunz]

You should probably attribute it to someone else besides me in your video. The earliest documentation that I've found of someone mentioning this was Kprime, but it may have been someone else. I thought it was a pretty interesting mechanic that not many people knew about.

The "name" is an ongoing tongue-in-cheek joke about certain smashers tendencies to name a "discovery" something nonsensical or worse after themselves. It's been an on-going joke of mine on smashboards for... almost 4 years now. So I don't think a name change vote is warranted since I don't think it needs a name.

Yep, it was me.
http://smashboards.com/threads/canceling-air-dodge-landing-lag.368056/

Since I discovered this, it shall be called DeLux cancelling.

 

[Legend Vermillion]

Im having trouble doing this. Can someone give tips to perform this AT? Im trying with Falco but I think im not understanding how this works (and I watched the video). Would be great if someone provides me with the inputs which are required!

 

[infomon]

This video is a really excellent explanation, but @ Legend Vermillion let me try to state it simply:

This technique only applies to airdodges where they're going to end very close to the ground. Most of the airdodge needs to take place before you get close to the landing. All you have to do is use one of your aerial attacks (hit the a button) during the airdodge and right before you land on the ground. If you've timed/spaced it just right, the attack will just barely start to happen at the end of the airdodge and you won't suffer the airdodge-landing lag.

As Falco, try to follow the timing/spacing of the falco in the video. To do this from a short-hop, it looks like you need to start the airdodge just as soon as you start the jump. Then just hit A during a small frame window before you land. Even then you might need to hold shield right after that in order to see if you got it right or not -- if you've done the cancellation well, the shield will be able to come out sooner than it would if you hadn't started the aerial attack.

 

[icraq]

I'm not able to test it out yet but rosalina can still attack w/ luma on autocanceled aerials and suffer no landing lag, so she can probably get good use out of this, not as an approach but as a safe landing.

 

[icraq]

Yeah rosalina can sh airdodge into luma nair autocancel... And roll whilst luma is still attacking.. Edit: air dodge at the apex of her sh, then spam a

 

[DeLux]

If anyone actually calls it DeLux Cancelling, I will forever give up on assuming satire is obvious lol

Welp, I give up guys

http://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/2jpagi/new_sm4sh_advanced_tech_dodge_cancelling/cldt76g

 

[reslived]

lol i heard indirectly that you chose to call it delux cancelling. once i saw it was satire i was just like lol... awkward witch hunt is awkward. :3

 

[Untouch]

Again, not really seeing how this promotes defensive play, it makes dodges less punishable in a VERY specific time period.
If you can only make use of it in a 4 frame period, when you're close to the ground, and they all follow up offensively. So much would have to go right to do this defensively.

 

[B0NK]

Honestly people are saying **** before the metagame has even come closed to developing. Personally I don't believe it promotes either type of play, it's pretty character dependent on whether or not this helps them defensively and/or offensively.

There is very little reason not to cancel your airdodge into something though (even another airdodge). The only reason you wouldn't is because your character can do an autocancelled airdodge with a shorthop, and you want to land and do a grounded move.

Of course, then you're choosing to have a visual cue for your opponent to react to for more invincibility than an empty short hop.

 

[Aerros11]

Everyone seems to be grabbing thin air for advanced techniques. ..Just grab your latest version of Project M and u'll find what you need for that thirst >, ]

 

[B0NK]

^****post is ****

Like PLEASE, this is a Smash 3DS competitive discussion forum.

 

[MegaGuy]

Everyone seems to be grabbing thin air for advanced techniques. ..Just grab your latest version of Project M and u'll find what you need for that thirst >, ]

Project M is a travesty LOL

 

[M15t3R E]

Project M is a travesty LOL

Them's fightin' words, buddy.

 

[XakYm]

This looks extremely useful for Mega Man, since his Nair has 0 frames of landing lag.

It'll turn his MegaBuster into a machine gun.

 

[kataridragon]

Please tell me I'm not the only person who cringes when someone actually says "dair" instead of down air.

It sounds sooooo dumb.

 

[onionchowder]

Man, this was the first thing I tried after I realized air dodge landing lag was massive. I'm surprised nobody's mentioned it before. It's definitely pretty useful.

 

[Wavebird]

tutorial for captain falcon when you jump you get a jumping sound if you short hop and dodge quickly you wont get the jumping sound only the dodging sound right before you land you can dodge again then you just replace the second dodge for a normal and thats the timing

theres other characters that can short hop dodge with very little timing requirement like charizard or drmario one in perticular that might do really good is puff its all speculation but I feel this tech makes her really strong

 

[Big-Cat]

Do we really need another term for something like this? Don't get me wrong, this is a great find, but this is but one application of a SHAD - short hop air dodge. You can jump instead unless we want to go for yet another term as if we're taxonomists.

 

[Yikarur]

this is known since the demo but ok

 

[Drumma_Boi]

Why hasn't anyone suggested we call it an FADC.......

falling air dodge cancel ;p

 

[Terrazi Terrajin]

Let's call it butt fisting.

 

[Squii The Fish]

We should call it the "magooberbajiggydoobee" because its the sound the make when I forget to do it and suffer landing lag.

This has already been confirmed a while ago . But i do appreciate the youtube video and this thread.

Awareness is careness.

 

[BSL]

I mean I was a really big fan of Delux Cancelling. We can call it DC for short, which is the same abbreviation as Dodge Cancelling.

 

[Problem2]

So instead of cancelling attack lag with the shield button, we're now cancelling dodge lag with the attack button?

well, I didn't see this coming..

 

[Thinkaman]

So instead of cancelling attack lag with the shield button, we're not cancelling dodge lag with the attack button?

I appreciate the irony, but remember this is only avoiding post IASA-lag.

You're not actually "cancelling" anything here.

 

[infomon]

But that perspective is rather hilarious.

 

[Pee-Gcuatro20]

So basically use your least laggy aireal to cancel your air dodge?
Is theremore to this or is that it. When it comes to frames things get a bit confusing for me

 

[DeLux]

So basically use your least laggy aireal to cancel your air dodge?
Is theremore to this or is that it. When it comes to frames things get a bit confusing for me

It doesn't have to be an aerial. It could be Jump if you have it so you don't have to land. Could be a special if you want. But for the purposes of minimizing lag on landing, that's correct.

 

[infomon]

Basically that, but notably:
1. Only specifically some of the ending of the airdodge can be "cancelled" (you're not stopping the airdodge, just preventing it from having some lag after it's already basically done)
2. "Least laggy aerial" isnt' what it sounds like -- you care about the lag from the landing of the very beginning of the aerial, not the normal lag you get when you land with it after the attack happens.

HTH

 

[Problem2]

I appreciate the irony, but remember this is only avoiding post IASA-lag.

You're not actually "cancelling" anything here.

haha yes, yes. I know it is not exactly the reverse of L-cancelling. This is going to be very character dependent too.

 

[Dr. Tuen]

I'm curious. Is this fast enough to prevent counter-grabs? Grabs are often an effective way to punish air dodging to the ground, but maybe with this you can attack, jump, dash, or roll away fast enough to make that grab whiff. If so, that's pretty neat.

 

[DeLux]

I'm curious. Is this fast enough to prevent counter-grabs? Grabs are often an effective way to punish air dodging to the ground, but maybe with this you can attack, jump, dash, or roll away fast enough to make that grab whiff. If so, that's pretty neat.

I don't know what the invincibility frames are on various moves, but I've been using air dodge cancelled into Buusuto Kikku as a way to bait a kill situation.

So I don't know know if it'll be fast enough to make a grab whiff since you have to figure 4+ frames of lag (or whatever the fastest aerial landing lag is for various characters) plus spot dodge or roll startup on landing was a pretty grabbable window in Brawl. But jumping away for sure would work.

 

[YELLO]

because of this i have just decided to not air dodge, **** is not worth getting KOd to evade a damn sonic spring -.-