Advice on dealing with projectiles?

[Swordmaster102]

So It’s been several months since I started Ultimate and I’m still facing some issues that were prevalent from the beginning.

The main one though is that I struggle against projectile heavy characters which I had far less trouble with in Sm4sh, whether it be Olimar’s pickmans, Young Link’s arrows, or just Dr. Mario’s pills. Now I main a pretty slow character in general with pretty poor air drift speed (which happens to be Ryu), so that doesn’t help too much. I also want to add in that the whole parry mechanic has been quite troublesome to use and I honestly just prefer and miss powershielding. In 4 I was able to simply powershield instantly most projectiles if my timing was reasonable. Any tips you guys can give me with dealing with projectile oriented characters?

After putting in all the hours, the game just feels overall more clunky in my hands compared to Sm4sh. I’m not sure if it’s just a combination of the mechanics and the code of the game, but I prefer how Sm4sh felt over Ultimate.

 

[Haden]

Yes, 3 frames before it hits you, let go of shield. It's called a Parry

 

[Uffe]

Yes, 3 frames before it hits you, let go of shield. It's called a Parry

Parrying is almost impractical, even if you've practiced it in Training Mode. Some projectile isn't even worth parrying because it can be followed up immediately with another projectile. You run the risk of taking unnecessary damage if you don't parry right, either. Especially if you're fighting characters like Olimar or Young Link who will just run away regardless if your parrying works or not.

So It’s been several months since I started Ultimate and I’m still facing some issues that were prevalent from the beginning.

The main one though is that I struggle against projectile heavy characters which I had far less trouble with in Sm4sh, whether it be Olimar’s pickmans, Young Link’s arrows, or just Dr. Mario’s pills. Now I main a pretty slow character in general with pretty poor air drift speed (which happens to be Ryu), so that doesn’t help too much. I also want to add in that the whole parry mechanic has been quite troublesome to use and I honestly just prefer and miss powershielding. In 4 I was able to simply powershield instantly most projectiles if my timing was reasonable. Any tips you guys can give me with dealing with projectile oriented characters?

After putting in all the hours, the game just feels overall more clunky in my hands compared to Sm4sh. I’m not sure if it’s just a combination of the mechanics and the code of the game, but I prefer how Sm4sh felt over Ultimate.

Honestly, you're better off asking the Ryu forums. You might get some help here, but Ryu mains understand their character more than anybody else who doesn't main the character. Olimar is a match up nobody actually understands because he was a bad character in Sm4sh, therefore, not a common character, so it's like learning that match up all over again. Against Young Link, look out for a pattern. Most of them throw boomerang first and follow up with arrows. If they throw their boomerang in a V shape, they're going for anti-air. If there are platforms around, they might just run around them. However, if this is what happens, then all the Young Link can really do is throw a bomb downward, go for a dair, or just run away the whole time.

If any of these characters are constantly running to the other end of the stage, they're putting themselves in a bad position since they'll have no more ground to walk on unless they go through you. So if they have a habit of rolling, chances are they'll try to roll past you to reach center stage. If they like being in the air a lot, go for anti-aerial attacks. If they just want to attack you, go for a shield or dodge and punish. It's easier said than done, but I'm just trying to give you some options you may want to consider.

As for Doc, doesn't Ryu have any attacks that can challenge pills? With Ness, I've found myself hitting fireballs or pills with nair/fair and managing to follow up the same exact attack against Mario/Doc. Maybe Ryu has an attack he can use to nullify the pills?

 

[Haden]

Parrying is almost impractical, even if you've practiced it in Training Mode. Some projectile isn't even worth parrying because it can be followed up immediately with another projectile. You run the risk of taking unnecessary damage if you don't parry right, either. Especially if you're fighting characters like Olimar or Young Link who will just run away regardless if your parrying works or not.

False. The only projectile not worth parrying is Peach's Turnip. Outside of that, you can Parry, dash forward and parry again, if you're GOOD enough. I stress the word "good". Also, outside of Turnip's, Yink's fire arrows are an issue that can EASILY be solved with a jump or shield because the arrows do little to no shield damage and a well place jump can land into shield to cover the second arrow. Every other projectile is worth parrying,

 

[Uffe]

False. The only projectile not worth parrying is Peach's Turnip. Outside of that, you can Parry, dash forward and parry again, if you're GOOD enough. I stress the word "good". Also, outside of Turnip's, Yink's fire arrows are an issue that can EASILY be solved with a jump or shield because the arrows do little to no shield damage and a well place jump can land into shield to cover the second arrow. Every other projectile is worth parrying,

Jumping would be a better option. And projectiles that are charged like Dark/Samus' Charge Shot, Mewtwo's charged Shadow Ball, and/or Lucario's charged Aura Sphere are not worth parrying. You mess up, you take a ton of damage. You fail to drop your shield into a parry, and you're in danger of a shield break. Can you even parry Pikmin since they attach to their opponents? Most people would prefer perfect shielding from S4 to return because of parrying having that unsafe flaw of taking a chance of being hit by an attack.

 

[Crystanium]

Jump or use platforms. You can shield, but because perfect shielding isn't what it used to be, and because shields aren't as good in SSBU, you'll need to try going for the other two. Also, be on the look out for a pattern. Does the opponent use a projectile and then some other attack after? Does he or she use a projectile and continue spamming? Does he or she use a projectile and just wait? Think about why projectiles are used. Try having your opponent chase you.

 

[Swordmaster102]

Thanks to everyone’s advice.

As for Doc, doesn't Ryu have any attacks that can challenge pills? With Ness, I've found myself hitting fireballs or pills with nair/fair and managing to follow up the same exact attack against Mario/Doc. Maybe Ryu has an attack he can use to nullify the pills?

I’ve never really considered nullifying pills with an aerial, but yes, both his n-air and f-air work to do so. I could start doing so (and thanks for the advice), but with poor drift speed, it probably wouldn’t be too efficient if my goal is to bypass the pill and land a hit with the attack. Though, I probably will start using aerials to just swipe them out of the air.

 

[Uffe]

Thanks to everyone’s advice.



I’ve never really considered nullifying pills with an aerial, but yes, both his n-air and f-air work to do so. I could start doing so (and thanks for the advice), but with poor drift speed, it probably wouldn’t be too efficient if my goal is to bypass the pill and land a hit with the attack. Though, I probably will start using aerials to just swipe them out of the air.

I think if he's jumping and using the pills, then nair/fair might work. I seem to have trouble against Doc for some reason with Ness. I can fight Mario without too much of a problem, though. It doesn't make sense to me. I'd definitely ask the Ryu forums if you haven't already, just to see if you can get better responses. I've never used Ryu, so I'm just going off sort of general knowledge.

 

[Xelrog]

How aggressively do you play? I find the best way to deal with zoning is to doggedly stay on the opponent, right up in their face, and don't give them the space to set up any distance. Or maybe that goes without saying. I know some players who tend to struggle with situations that go against their natural tendencies, is all.

 

[Arrei]

The inherent problem with parrying a projectile is that many projectiles in the game have too little endlag to turn a parry into a punish unless you're at very close range, in which case your parry was more likely to be accidental anyway since a lot of them are also too fast to be reactable at that range, and you're also committing to putting up your shield at a distance where your opponent could opt for other attacks instead. Successfully parrying a projectile from farther away gets you a few more frames to close the distance between you and your opponent as opposed to blocking it, and you take no shield damage, so there's certainly a benefit there, but that seems like too little reward to attempt the risk instead of trying to evade it entirely or settling for blocking it.

It definitely seems like evasion is the way to go. As a slow character you have to keep in mind there are three stages to getting in on a zoner, though: long range, mid range, and close range aggression. From far away, projectiles are annoying to deal with and there's zero chance of counterattacking your foe, but you're not in danger from any other moves so it's all a game of evading them. Once you get to middle distance, projectiles become harder to deal with and you start to be at risk from your opponent's other moves... but you're also at a distance where projectiles are much less safe to throw out and if they throw out the wrong move at the wrong time, that's your opening to get in and mess them up. Don't just charge in from across the stage like a mad bull, stop and assess your opponent from a range where they have to think twice about using more projectiles.

 

[Swordmaster102]

How aggressively do you play? I find the best way to deal with zoning is to doggedly stay on the opponent, right up in their face, and don't give them the space to set up any distance. Or maybe that goes without saying. I know some players who tend to struggle with situations that go against their natural tendencies, is all.

Oh my man, do I play aggressively? I’m like a cat chasing a mouse. That’ll give you a hint on how I play. As a Ryu main, I definitely use Hadokens to space if the opponent lets me, but the majority of the time Hadokens get beat out by other more persistent/rapid used projectiles. So in machups where I have to be the aggressor (and I’ll just get chipped down if I don’t), I definitely chase my enemy to the point of it basically being a game of tag (since they usually run).

The inherent problem with parrying a projectile is that many projectiles in the game have too little endlag to turn a parry into a punish unless you're at very close range, in which case your parry was more likely to be accidental anyway since a lot of them are also too fast to be reactable at that range, and you're also committing to putting up your shield at a distance where your opponent could opt for other attacks instead. Successfully parrying a projectile from farther away gets you a few more frames to close the distance between you and your opponent as opposed to blocking it, and you take no shield damage, so there's certainly a benefit there, but that seems like too little reward to attempt the risk instead of trying to evade it entirely or settling for blocking it.

It definitely seems like evasion is the way to go. As a slow character you have to keep in mind there are three stages to getting in on a zoner, though: long range, mid range, and close range aggression. From far away, projectiles are annoying to deal with and there's zero chance of counterattacking your foe, but you're not in danger from any other moves so it's all a game of evading them. Once you get to middle distance, projectiles become harder to deal with and you start to be at risk from your opponent's other moves... but you're also at a distance where projectiles are much less safe to throw out and if they throw out the wrong move at the wrong time, that's your opening to get in and mess them up. Don't just charge in from across the stage like a mad bull, stop and assess your opponent from a range where they have to think twice about using more projectiles.

Thanks for the heads up. Great advice that I’ll keep in mind and apply more often. My problem in all honesty is just that I rush down against spacey characters if I feel helpless (which more than often worked in Sm4sh since I could simply powershield whatever is chucked at me). I need to more often step back, observe habits, and study the other player.

 

[soviet prince]

pk freeze makes me wish smash had fatalities

 

[Coolboy]

characters like Spamus and fire lover Ness can and will always be very annoying...just for that reason i can't stand any player who heavily spams with them, but so far i only fought 2 good Ness players who i don't consider spammy..while Spamus only had spammers

but tbh i find Ness easier to approach then Spamus

btw in matches with 3 to 4 players it's so simple to punish a spammy player with Toon Link's D-air, i see it often..they think they can safely spam until i punish them for it from above xD and funny enough some keep falling for it lol

 

[FartyParty]

Option 1: Use a character with a reflector

Option 2: Use a character with a special that can absorb projectiles (Kirby, DeDeDe, Ness)

Option 3: Get good