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Advice for a Shiek Player

ReoZeo

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 23, 2008
Messages
211
Location
Clarksville, MD
Hey guys, I am trying to make Shiek a main character of mine.
I watch videos of some combos she has, but does anyone else have anything they could say that would help?
 

Tristan_win

Not dead.
Joined
Aug 7, 2006
Messages
3,845
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Currently Japan
...Here's what I'm giving to like everyone now a days.

~Needles are you friends and can cause people to approach you even if they are able to shoot back such as Zelda or Snake(there are more then just these two).
You can cause snakes grenades to explode in mid air right in front of him with a well timed needle.
When someone lands they will always have a few frames of helplessness. A well time needle storm can cause a lot of problems for people who like to jump a lot. ^.^ It’s also fairly easy to time and use
~Throwing a single needle in close range will sometimes cause someone to turn around this isn’t very useful outside of shield pressure as if you follow this up with say a dash attack or a dacus even if they shield it they cannot shield grab you.
~Never use needle storm close to your opponent unless your really disparate as there is faintly less hit stun on the needle storm then the cool down time you have for throwing them.
~ After a needle storm it’s always a good idea (unless your fighting a opponent with a very strong long range b move like samus neutral B) to follow it up with another needle or even a dacus.
~Learn the percentages of setting people into a tilt lock or when you are unable to go beyond a 2nd hit on some characters.(Mario being the first one to come to mind. You should never go beyond a 2nd ftilt on Mario or he will interrupt you with a ^B unless you know he doesn’t know he can.
~The Bair, Nair, and Uair can all be used to combo if you hit someone after the original strong beginning.
~ Full hop nair can be used not only defensively against shield pressures but also good for offensive means as the full hop doesn’t allow you to get shield grabbed. This can also be done with the fair but it’s not as effective or useful as it has much shorter range
~ Sheik fair hits above and little bit below her, however the hit box you want is the more below as this sends your opponents more downward instead of horizontal. This can also be used to combo if done close to the ground. Fair, dtilt, (maybe two or even none depending on the character and percentage) , ftilt lock(if possible) to umsmash. It’s also good to be followed up with a dash grab or dash attack. …It’s also a good idea for edge guarding since it sends them downward.
~Sheik ftilt and dtilt has a sweet spot on the foot which if connect will give your opponents more hit stun and shoot them to a more combo able angle. The ftilt sends them more towards you then usual and the dtilt sends them completely vertical.
~The first part of the utilt hit’s a little behind her, I think it’s like a step to two step behind her but it helps since the utilt has fantastic priority
~The utilt is very useful if someone is standing near the edge of the platform above you shielding as the first and 2nd kick can be used to push people off which will make them go into a tumbling animations
until they hit the stage floor. I’ve started tilt locks or followed this up with fsmash quite often when the chance presents it’s self.
~The utilt can combo into another utilt in the very low percents it can also be used to set up a tilt lock
~When using the fsmash it is always best to try to hit someone with the inner
thigh of the first kick then hitting someone with the foot. Hit someone
at the knee area will almost guaranteed you to miss with the 2nd kick.
~The 2nd kick of the fsmash has more priority then the first
~The chain is Jesus on ice if used correctly. Short hopping into a chain will cause it to do more damage and hit stun with each hit then if you just pull it out normally on the ground.
~In the low percents (like around 10% or below) the downsmash can hit someone twice if you hit them with the back part. (The extra 10% damage is very nice and usually means you can put your opponent in a tilt lock now)
~ If used probably the chain can stop ledge attacks up to 99% on all characters.
~ After the first spin around the down smash start to hit higher and it can be used to stop aerials attacks at times because of it’s good priority.
~Since the downsmash comes out in only four frames (that’s in front of you btw) it’s a better option then grabbing if your not sure you can land the grab since it’s almost twice as fast as a grab (3 frame difference)
~ Sadly sheik can get grabbed out of her downsmash from behind.
~The dtilt sweet spot can be used to link into another dtilt and then into a ftilt if they DI poorly
after the 2nd dtilt in the low percents. This only works on the fast fallers but can be used against middle falling speed people if they are not expecting it.
~The utilt can poke between burst of Lucario dair and has enough priority to beat De3 falling ^B or any dair that doesn‘t have large amount of disjointed hits boxes (people with swords).
~Sheik dtilt and ftilt can hit people shields and not be shield grabbed if
space correctly. However this doesn’t stop people from grabbing your
leg so don’t expect to be able to pressure people with it at least for long
~Sheik ^B is a great mind game tool and does great damage(15%?) plus good
knock back. It’s never too early to start using the ^B to rack out
damage if your opponent lets you unless you have a better option such
as a tilt lock.
~Sheik can beat meta knight shuttle loop by placing yourself about short hop distance directly above meta knight and use a strong bair
~Sheik AAA combo can beat select characters AAA combos even when in the middle of getting combo, best example Captain Falcons you can interrupt him at any given point after the third punch with a well timed jab.
~Sheik ftilt will cancel out snakes ground attack, although in most cases he will be able to come out with a AAA combo before you (more likely he out ranges you)
~Sheik dtilt will also cancel out on snakes dtilt.
~Sheik ftilt and the first part of the utilt will cancel out a marth uncharged fsmash.
~Sheik usmash hits twice once where the hands connect and on the way down, however if your close enough to a standing opponent you can get both hits in.
~If sheik first usmash hit’s a opponent off the edge of a stage then the 2nd will be a guaranteed hit on characters such as pit and Samus. I believe there are more
~ Sheik dtilt is not only good for starting low percentage combos but also can be used for spacing, if you hit someone with the inner thigh part of the attack it can push people out of shield grab distance.
~This can also happen with the usmash if you get both hits but has a much smaller use since they can just fsmash you before the cool down finishes.
~ The dash attack cancel has two different timings one for while running the other is from standing still. Mastering both is extremely important.
~Sheik can grab release both wario and meta knight into a double hit usmash if immediately after the break you do a dacus.
~ A double hit up smash does around 30% when fresh and can kill meta knight at 80% on FD.
 

-Mars-

Smash Hero
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To add to that, dsmash clanks with a lot of attacks, I consistently clash with Marth and Links fsmashes.
 

choknater

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Dec 25, 2002
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choknater
lol wow

it's very unorganized but quite a post tristan

good info for newcomer sheiks

i didn't read all of it

but i saw "jesus on ice" and i laughed
 

Tristan_win

Not dead.
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lol wow

it's very unorganized but quite a post tristan

good info for newcomer sheiks

i didn't read all of it

but i saw "jesus on ice" and i laughed

haha, yeah well I first wrote that for shadofiend like two months. He said he was picking up sheik as a 2nd and I've know him for a while so I decide to puke up some info.

I literately just sat down and wrote whatever came to mind about Sheik that I knew for like 30 minutes. Since then I've added a few things to it but nothing big really.

What's funny though is that for about a month and a half now whenever someone asks me for sheik help and I don't really care to play friendlies with them or any more friendlies (too many friendlies @.@) I just shove that text down their throat and I never hear from then again.
 

ss118

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 30, 2006
Messages
3,127
Location
Savannah, Georgia
Tristan I hereby officially announce you as SWF's new "Shiek newcomer personal introduction-er"

That helped me a lot also
 

choknater

Smash Obsessed
Joined
Dec 25, 2002
Messages
27,296
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Modesto, CA
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choknater
LMAO wow

sheik may just become easier to pick up with metaknight

all they have to do is read tristan's copy+paste
 

SinkingHigher

Smash Lord
Joined
May 4, 2008
Messages
1,886
Location
Canada
~Never use needle storm close to your opponent unless your really disparate as there is faintly less hit stun on the needle storm then the cool down time you have for throwing them.

I *believe* if you use a full needlestorm just before touching the ground, or, actually maybe even on the ground, you can attack before them.

Just today I did a full needlestorm to f-tilt lock.
 

Tristan_win

Not dead.
Joined
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Messages
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Currently Japan
LMAO wow

sheik may just become easier to pick up with metaknight

all they have to do is read tristan's copy+paste
haha, well god if you are going to say **** like that I'm going to organize it.

~Never use needle storm close to your opponent unless your really disparate as there is faintly less hit stun on the needle storm then the cool down time you have for throwing them.

I *believe* if you use a full needlestorm just before touching the ground, or, actually maybe even on the ground, you can attack before them.

Just today I did a full needlestorm to f-tilt lock.
I'm pretty sure if you do a needle storm right next to someone odds are if they are quick enough they can hit you before the cool down of the needles end. Then again there's all theses things like decay and character characteristics of their move set but it's better safe then sorry.
 

ReoZeo

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 23, 2008
Messages
211
Location
Clarksville, MD
Good grief that's a lot of info, well I started with Shiek on Thursday and played like 20 hours from Thursday night - Sunday with her haha. If I read your comment, I think I would've gotten better faster :p But w/e, I'd say she's a main of mine now :)
 

ReoZeo

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 23, 2008
Messages
211
Location
Clarksville, MD
O choknater says different, lol it's okay Im not really into verbal advice anyway. I'm more of a watch and learn type :)
 

East

Crappy Imitation
Joined
Feb 11, 2008
Messages
763
Location
Doing Tricks in a Mansion Location: Tokyo, JP
Guide

I had some time after class, look it over, tell me changes that need to be made. Answer my question.

Oh yeah, main points in color, supplementary info in white.

Tristan's Quick Guide to Sheik
What Learning Curve?

Needles


  • Needles are your friends and can cause people to approach you even if they are able to shoot back such as Zelda or Snake[there are more then just these two].
  • Never use needle storm close to your opponent unless your really disparate as there is faintly less hit stun on the needle storm then the cool down time you have for throwing them.
  • After a needle storm it’s always a good idea [unless your fighting a opponent with a very strong long range b move like samus neutral B] to follow it up with another needle or even a DACUS.

    • You can cause snakes grenades to explode in mid air right in front of him with a well timed needle.
    • When someone lands they will always have a few frames of helplessness. A well time needle storm can cause a lot of problems for people who like to jump a lot. ^.^ It’s also fairly easy to time and use.
    • Throwing a single needle in close range will sometimes cause someone to turn around. This isn’t very useful outside of shield pressure as if you follow this up with say a dash attack or a dacus even if they shield it they cannot shield grab you.

Tilts


  • Forward Tilt is one of Sheik's best friends and can be used repeatedly in a lock.
  • Learn the percentages of setting people into a forward tilt lock or when you are unable to go beyond a 2nd hit on some characters. [Mario being the first one to come to mind. You should never go beyond a 2nd ftilt on Mario or he will interrupt you with a ^B unless you know he doesn’t know he can.]
  • The utilt is very useful if someone is standing near the edge of the platform above you shielding as the first and 2nd kick can be used to push people off which will make them go into a tumbling animations until they hit the stage floor. I’ve started tilt locks or followed this up with fsmash quite often when the chance presents it’s self.
  • Sheik dtilt and ftilt can hit people shields and not be shield grabbed if spaced correctly; however, this doesn’t stop people from grabbing your leg so don’t expect to be able to pressure people with it at least for long.
  • Sheik dtilt is not only good for starting low percentage combos but also can be used for spacing, if you hit someone with the inner thigh part of the attack it can push people out of shield grab distance.

    • Sheik ftilt and dtilt has a sweet spot on the foot which if connect will give your opponents more hit stun and shoot them to a more combo-able angle. The ftilt sends them more towards you then usual and the dtilt sends them completely vertical.
    • The first part of the utilt hit’s a little behind her, I think it’s like a step to two step behind her but it helps since the utilt has fantastic priority.
    • The utilt can combo into another utilt in the very low percents it can also be used to set up a tilt lock
    • The dtilt sweet spot can be used to link into another dtilt and then into a ftilt if they DI poorly after the 2nd dtilt in the low percents. This only works on the fast fallers but can be used against middle falling speed people if they are not expecting it.
    • The utilt can poke between burst of Lucario dair and has enough priority to beat De3 falling ^B or any dair that doesn‘t have large amount of disjointed hits boxes [people with swords.]
    • Sheik ftilt will cancel out snakes ground attack, although in most cases he will be able to come out with a AAA combo before you [more likely he out ranges you].
    • Sheik dtilt will also cancel out on snakes dtilt.
    • Sheik ftilt and the first part of the utilt will cancel out a marth uncharged fsmash.

Smashes


  • When using the fsmash it is always best to try to hit someone with the inner thigh of the first kick then hitting someone with the foot. Hit someone at the knee area will almost guaranteed you to miss with the 2nd kick.
  • The 2nd kick of the fsmash has more priority then the first.
  • Sheik's usmash hits twice once where the hands connect and on the way down, however if your close enough to a standing opponent you can get both hits in.
  • Since the downsmash comes out in only four frames [that’s in front of you btw] it’s a better option then grabbing if your not sure you can land the grab since it’s almost twice as fast as a grab [3 frame difference].

    • If Sheik first usmash hit’s a opponent off the edge of a stage then the 2nd will be a guaranteed hit on characters such as pit and Samus. There may be more. This can also happen with the usmash if you get both hits but has a much smaller use since they can just fsmash you before the cool down finishes.
    • Sadly sheik can get grabbed out of her downsmash from behind.
    • A double hit up smash does around 30% when fresh and can kill meta knight at 80% on FD.
    • After the first spin around the down smash start to hit higher and it can be used to stop aerials attacks at times because of it’s good priority.
    • In the low percents [(like around 10% or below] the downsmash can hit someone twice if you hit them with the back part. [The extra 10% damage is very nice and usually means you can put your opponent in a tilt lock now.]

Airs


  • A Full hop nair can be used not only defensively against shield pressures but also good for offensive means as the full hop doesn’t allow you to get shield grabbed. This can also be done with the fair but it’s not as effective or useful as it has much shorter range.
  • Sheik fair hits above and little bit below her, however the hit box you want is the more below as this sends your opponents more downward instead of horizontal. This can also be used to combo if done close to the ground. Fair, dtilt, [maybe two or even none depending on the character and percentage] , ftilt lock[if possible] to usmash. It’s also good to be followed up with a dash grab or dash attack. …It’s also a good idea for edge guarding since it sends them downward.
  • The Bair, Nair, and Uair can all be used to combo if you hit someone after the original strong beginning.

    • Sheik can beat meta knight shuttle loop by placing yourself about short hop distance directly above meta knight and use a strong bair.

Everything Else


  • Sheik AAA combo can beat select characters AAA combos even when in the middle of getting combo-ed, best example Captain Falcon's you can interrupt him at any given point after the third punch with a well timed jab.
  • Sheik ^B is a great mind game tool and does great damage [15%?] plus good knock back. It’s never too early to start using the ^B to rack out damage if your opponent lets you unless you have a better option such as a tilt lock.
  • The chain is Jesus on ice if used correctly. Short hopping into a chain will cause it to do more damage and hit stun with each hit then if you just pull it out normally on the ground.
  • The dash attack cancel has two different timings one for while running the other is from standing still. Mastering both is extremely important.

    • If used properly the chain can stop ledge attacks up to 99% on all characters.
    • Sheik can grab release both wario and meta knight into a double hit usmash if immediately after the break you do a DACUS.

In regard to the double-hit up smash doing around 30%, where is the person getting hit? Standing on the ground or in the air. I've tested it multiple times against a bowser in Training, standing next to sheik, and he takes exactly 40% meaning the double hit would have to be fresh, but are you taking this or the fact that the attack may have decayed into consideration?
 

sniperworm

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 2, 2008
Messages
520
Location
Pearl City, HI
In regard to the double-hit up smash doing around 30%, where is the person getting hit? Standing on the ground or in the air. I've tested it multiple times against a bowser in Training, standing next to sheik, and he takes exactly 40% meaning the double hit would have to be fresh, but are you taking this or the fact that the attack may have decayed into consideration?
40% sounds like it's fully charged. Sheik's Usmash does 17% (tipper) and 12% (non-tipper) for a total of 29% if you hit with both (uncharged and fresh). Try C-sticking the smash, I'm pretty sure you get 29% (it could be 30% in training, maybe the non-tipper does 12% because the Usmash hit once before (so it counts for stale moves)).

Has anyone tried grab-releasing Pikachu into a DACUS (it hit with only the non-tipper when I tried it)? The Pikachu wasn't doing inputs so I don't know if it'd work on a person, but I just thought I'd ask.
 

Tristan_win

Not dead.
Joined
Aug 7, 2006
Messages
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lol, I think I just cough up a bit of blood from my own amazingness

>_<'

I had plan in like a week or two from now after this thread died to post that in it's own thread organized to help breath life into the sheik forum again with it but now I wont have to ^^

Edit: Sorry, I decide to reread it and forgot to mention something

THANK YOU EAST, it's really nice of you to of done that.
 

-Mars-

Smash Hero
Joined
Jul 26, 2007
Messages
6,515
Location
UTAH
These boards are kinda dying and it's pretty sad. Most of the other boards are full of life and they seem to have a strong community..........we don't even have a matchup thread anymore.
 

Squidster

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 3, 2008
Messages
798
Location
Southern California
Yeh the match up thread thing is lame... Ankoku responded to pointless poster

We should be more like sonic boards and talk about steak so we have community
(weshouldalsowintournamentslikethem)
 

choknater

Smash Obsessed
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choknater
anyoen can read that guide and instantly be better than gimpyfish with sheik

BELIEVE IT!!
 

East

Crappy Imitation
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763
Location
Doing Tricks in a Mansion Location: Tokyo, JP
Go ahead SinkingHigher, I don't mind.

No Problem Tristan, I had a bit of free time, so I figured I'd do some good.

yeahimworkingonthatwinningtournamentslikethemthingtoobutitshardbecausetherearelittletonotournamentsthatdontrequireacarnearme.

that' s a mouthful...
 

holla at yo marth

Smash Cadet
Joined
Aug 18, 2008
Messages
25
Location
East Coast
Sheik is a really good character. Try not to Use her smash attacks as much as her tilts and airs. She has good f-tilt combos and up-tilt combos.
 

choknater

Smash Obsessed
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Dec 25, 2002
Messages
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Modesto, CA
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choknater
i do really like tristan's guide, i was just joking about the better than gimpyfish part lol
 

ReoZeo

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 23, 2008
Messages
211
Location
Clarksville, MD
Haha you guys are having fun :p
To tell the truth Im not into this "smash vocab" so I have no idea what tilt and the other stuff are (even though I probably do it) Just tell me incase :)
 

Semmick

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 19, 2008
Messages
358
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Mukilteo, WA
Haha you guys are having fun :p
To tell the truth Im not into this "smash vocab" so I have no idea what tilt and the other stuff are (even though I probably do it) Just tell me incase :)
A tilt is when you move the control stick up, down, or forward and press the attack button. This website might help
 
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