Advanced Olimar Discussion (Start of Big Update 5/6)

[knuttz45]

wow at smashboards...

 

[mmmmm_PIE]

Hey all;

Been lurking here for a couple o' months, and as I'll hopefully be taking my play online soon (been playing soley in a university dorm since the game's release), I decided to jump into the discussion.

My biggest problem with Oli right now is one opposite to that described in OP's discussion of camping: that is a situation when I'm at min percents and my ranged-attacking opponent is ready to be KO'd.
My usual opponents know my char well enough now to ignore latchers above 100%, and to sheild when I charge in with a purple but counter attack when I come with a blue. I try to switch things up (grab and Uthrow with purps, s-hop Fair blues) but it rarely confirms a kill, and the costs I take in Ice-blocks or Lasers or Falco Shines is depressing. Usually I only complete when I can mind-game them into a weak air posistion or nail a lucky Dsmash.

So I guess my question is pretty simple: knowing that your opponent is scared enough to allow you your organisation time, but smart enough to counter your basic offences, how do you approach 90%+s with Oli?

 

[Pyronic_Star]

Hey all;

Been lurking here for a couple o' months, and as I'll hopefully be taking my play online soon (been playing soley in a university dorm since the game's release), I decided to jump into the discussion.

My biggest problem with Oli right now is one opposite to that described in OP's discussion of camping: that is a situation when I'm at min percents and my ranged-attacking opponent is ready to be KO'd.
My usual opponents know my char well enough now to ignore latchers above 100%, and to sheild when I charge in with a purple but counter attack when I come with a blue. I try to switch things up (grab and Uthrow with purps, s-hop Fair blues) but it rarely confirms a kill, and the costs I take in Ice-blocks or Lasers or Falco Shines is depressing. Usually I only complete when I can mind-game them into a weak air posistion or nail a lucky Dsmash.

So I guess my question is pretty simple: knowing that your opponent is scared enough to allow you your organisation time, but smart enough to counter your basic offences, how do you approach 90%+s with Oli?

i can tell you my approach....i normally get rid of my white pikmin and whistle until i get to my yellow.... then i semi-fight as normal and if i see any pattern develop that will allow me to grab, i whistle and b-throw them with my blue pikmin, and if i miss i have the purple up-throw to follow up with, either kill at about 110% at least thats around the norm for me

 

[TrueRedemption]

Hmmm, a defensive adaptive opponent, sounds like fun =) Its the creativity and guessing games that keep things interesting. So first suggestion is pretty simple, slowly approach, blocking/dodging projectiles and the like, until you can get to your FSmash range. The FSmash i believe at least clinks with every other projectile, maybe not Ivysaur's leaf but I think so, and goes through a number of projectiles as well, and due to its range that means you can connect at least at first to mix things up and break through his initial defensive setup. Once you've done that a couple times, or even just threatened with it your opponent will look to prevent you from doing so, usually by rushing you as you start to get near that range. At that point expect it, and aim so that you approach a spacing that would normally be too far for FSmash range, but because your opponent will start to come at you, it'll leave you in a great spot to do an FSmash again, or since they are on the move and don't have all the options they normally would, you can often get a good grab in with this. This spacing takes time and practice, mines still not quite where I'd like it to be, frustrating because I was a SSBM Marth who thrived on the exact same thing, but it comes with time/practice, and you don't need absolute perfection for this to work in many cases.

You mentioned mixing it up with FAir, I understand it rarely gets a kill, but due to the currently somewhat stronger defensive metagame you need things like this to make a situation less neutral. Even by hitting him some you create opportunities to follow up and approach in less defensively set situations where you'll be able to work in a better killing move, or perhaps you'll get a ledge guard opportunity, while Olimar isn't awesome at getting kills straight from someone recovering from the ledge its still not a situation giving an advantage to your opponent, you'll find bigger holes to hit this way. Consider what works when someones approaching you, how they get inside your superior range and mess things up, then attempt to do the same in these situations. Honestly theres certainly no full proof method, I'd suggest tossing a purple pikmin and charging in at the same time, grabbing if they shield the pikmin punishing if they dodge it etc, but the point is to make either weird situations that are hard to avoid, or hitting smaller windows so to open up bigger ones to take advantage of. If grabs and latch are the only real options you use when approaching there was a thread recently listing all different types of approaches, I don't have the link at hand but searching for it should bring it up pretty easily, I'd suggest checking it out. Bumping it would be nice too cause I meant to get that into this first post soon, was letting discussion go on it for a while. Hope this helps,


-True

 

[OlimarFan]

Wow. An absolutely fantastic guide!

 

[Dr. Hyde]

I'm hopefully gonna get a feel of what the community feels about Olimar and how many play him in Tallahassee and just get a general consensus on what they do without ever playing him in the tournament tomorrow.

I hope to bring some useful information to the thread again.

 

[mmmmm_PIE]

Pyro:
I know Olimar can open up some fine oppertunities in regular-style battle, but here, against equally silled players, he's likely to take about as much damage as he gives. If the damage he's giving is just being sucked up by an opponent already in kill range, but the damage he's taking is pushing him up towards a hundred, I feel that he's at a net loss.
I Know that a "quick" and "perfect" kill is not nessasrily possibble, but I'm switchin from an SSBM Fox main (where it was pretty darn close) and would like to have something better than I currently do.

True:
Found the thread, thanks, but it seemed to be pretty DK based and I've had little problem with the Konmg.
Fshashes aren't a bad addition, but unfortunately, they have no advantages I can see over a running Usmash when your leading with purples and there's an unfortunate ammount of lag time when you charge in, stop, and smash with blues or reds. What I've turned to is coming in high with my reds: I jump forward and prepare to hit with a red Fair, if they don't sheild they get a red to the face and if they do I can land safely with great spacing and prepare to Fsmash, toss, or whatever. Even if they jump, my options increase... the only clear problem I face is with Falco's Fspeical.
Against the "illusion" (my main competition plays Falco, incase you were wondering) I've been trying the lead in with the purple toss. I find its espicially effective from the high ground, when he fills the level's bottom layer with lasers and I can snipe hiimm from a platform. There's really no set pattern to how I've used it so far, but whether it hits or he sheilds, I can usually pull some advantage from it.

So thanks alot guys, another question if you don't mind. I notice alot of peeps online discussing line-up control in terms of whistle use. I here "I set my whistle to blank and wait for blank to blow" or "I whistle to Yellow and then do this with my reds, this with my whites, and then this with my purps".
Well I do use my whistle for retreival (and WAC of course), my method of line-up control in almost all situations has become the toss. A needed pikman two spots down the line can be any number of slow-moving whistles away, but is always just two quick tosses (which are offences in themselves) from use. Sure you throw in a bit of randomness if you're not constantly whistling, but as long as your observant and ingenuitive this actually makes for more varried (read: harder to counter) play.
So... why whistle when you can toss?

 

[Raisinbran10488]

In dmauro's thread about pikmin order, i asked if anybody was sure that dying did/did not reset the pikmin order. At that time, nobody had an answer, so i tested it myself and put the results in that thread.
Long story short, dying does not effect pikmin rotation at all, it will continue where they left off. This didn't seem to be common knowledge at that point, so you may want to point that out in your first post, unless this is well known by now.

Very good work though, kinda like an all-in-one guide to olimar. Good work as usual.

 

[TrueRedemption]

Ah nice Raisinbran, I'm actually not sure if thats been said before, maybe in the original post but I'm not remembering..

@Pyronic Heres my current opinion/uses of whistling, because from what you described some people at least have been making or at least trying to make far more complicated use of it than I do. Learn to always know which WAC, obviously, but I do not make too frequent use of WAC, probably average around 2-3 times per match of 3 in competative scenarios where I'm not playing someone I play all the time. Theres only two different uses of WAC in my specific usage of it: either recovery desperation where an air dodge or aerial is simply not sure enough of an option, or very sparingly as a mix up move to create an opening, usually when looking for a solid early KO. The first use is survival based, couldn't care less what color I'm on my focus is staying alive. The second, for example if I've got a MK at 88% on Yoshi's Island (brawl) I may use it to eat an attack and hope the surprise factor stuns the player the fraction of a second I need to connect with the USmash and earn a very efficient kill. I have to stress how sparingly you should use this, especially against common opponents, because without that surprise human factor it loses nearly all of its advantage, your just eating damage to get in close and perhaps and a move, but if they aren't caught off guard the lag is enough to offer the faster characters a chance to respond. For these situations I want to be calling into a Red Purple or at least Blue, reasons to know what color was whistled last.

Apart from WAC my whistle use I consider fairly... standard. Any time you take a big hit that is throwing you off the stage, but too far away to be quickly hit again by your opponent is a good time to whistle, keep all your pikmin close in case you need to make use of your chain. The only time I don't suggest this is when you have a purple next in line that may be needed to handle ledge guarders and you'd be whistling up red or yellow, maybe even blue, because typically purples aren't easy to bring to the front just after calling those colors to the front. Additional whistles can be done at this time too in order to get purple to the front, you have to keep a clear head to make sure you whistle the right number of times and they respond right while still DIing back to the stage to make things easy. You want to do all this ASAP, you don't want to be trying to get whistles in last second as you get close to the stage and have more things to worry about. Apart from those 2 uses in recovery I use whistle if i have a lot of pikmin way spread out/returning, especially if I don't have but a couple following me and they can be killed off by the opponent. I like to whistle whenever my opponent is respawning, just kind of a reset putting the colors together knowing the order etc. You should always know your pikmin order unwhistled, but thats not always an easy or possible task so whistling allows you to know instantly what order they'll be in once you do a first move after. I never whistle prior to an attack just to get the right color though. So long as I know my order I use the as efficiently as i can, knowing which advantages each color has and responding to the order i have, rather than changing the order to find pikmin with the advantages I want to use. It just takes too much time to do that I feel, its an opening for your opponent and its silly, your opponent can learn what to expect every time you sit to the side and pull forward a certain color. I'm sure its got its advantages, I mean using pikmin strengths effectively is a HUGE part of improving basic olimar play, so whether its a respond to the order you have or force the order you want your playing stronger than someone who just uses moves with no idea what pikmin color is coming out. However I would agree with you, if I've got an opponent up near USmash KO range, rather than look to whistle a few times and get to red/blue/purp, I'll just throw the white, maybe throw or fsmash or whatever with the yellow and not go for the usmash then. Rarely do you get a simple run in and USmash for the kill, so honestly I usually want my 2nd 3rd 4th pikmin to be of the strong USmash color, so that i can create a situation where USmash is avaliable with the others. So while I can see the advantages of what your describing, I don't think they are that great so long as you know your pikmin order, but odds are this will be a matter of preference. If you have no trouble knowing your line and each advantage immediately, just respond to the line you have, if you lose count and end up playing without using pikmin color strengths, then try to find the time to whistle and set up.


-True

 

[shrinkray21]

Man True, you got an answer for everything, you make me feel like I don't explain myself - my question to you is I noticed how in my edgeguard it appears that when you do an fsmash to throw pikmin off the stage - they seem to do less damage with the distance they've been falling and at some point stop doing damage alltogether...have you had a chance to test this out at all and what are you opinions on it...i.e. do certain pikmin last longer with fmashes in midair? and such...p.s. keep being a man...oh and I noticed I saw NC Echo on the boards for the first time in a while - haven't been checking for him lately mind you - any idea if he's putting up new vids?

 

[Pyronic_Star]

@true
since you seem to be knowledgeable..... do you think its bad that i use this whistle? i use it a lot....i use it at least twice to start so that i know on the next whistle a blue will come up no matter wht, and i also use it when my damage is high so that my next whistle grants a purple pikmin. and outta curiosity, did u think i was whistling to super armor? or did you know i whistling so that i can know the next pikmin that will arise with the next whistle?


thanks all, but i think you all mis-interpreted me unfortunately lol............i am not whistleing to super armor...........i am whistling so that i know which pikmin is next so that i can go for the easy grab kill, an example would be this:

scenario:
stage: final destination
opponent's damage: 110%

in this situation, assuming u have saved your up throw and back throw.....a blue back throw at the edge or a purple up throw will kill. i think that everyone here knows this but i'll add it for clarification..... first whistle puts red in front, 2nd whistle puts yellow in front, next whistle is blue, then white, and finally purple. if a color is missing, the next one in line will appear, and this cycle repeats once it has gets to purple. NOTHING AFFECTS WHT COMES NEXT WITH THE NEXT WHISTLE (thought it was important for those that don't know whistle order) that basicly means, that as you continue fighting....you next whistle will follow this trend no matter what. now back to me explaining wht i said earlier... since people have a slight tendency to play more defensive, a grab is normally an easier opening. due to this, i get rid of my white pikmin, and whistle until i know that my blue pikmin will come up on my next whistle.... this way once i am reading my opponent i can whistle -> back throw for the kill. if for some reason this does not work, i'll have a purple lined up for my next whistle to attempt an up throw for the kill.

it could just be me, but does anyone else use the whistle to control the pikmin, because once i found out that the whistle has an order and allows one to fully control the next pikmin, i added it to my play and it increased my win percentage substantially due to the easier killing.


someone else mentioned "why whistle when you can toss?" with a toss, u must cycle through to get to a color....with the whistle i can set my (i like to call it count) count to 4 and know that once i go off the edge, one whistle will grant me the needed purple...opposed to the time consuming throwing to get to the puprle, or as i pointed out earlier, throwing would take to long to get to the needed color for a grab kill, however one whistle (assuming you have whistled to grant the next wanted color) can grant the easy grab kill

and well, if i wasn't misinterpreted....then i apologize for the wasted space haha and well.........i'll have a new post to make lol

 

[DanGR]

hey y'all. i mentioned this on my KO% thread, but no-one seems to be commenting. i've been testing olimar's upsmash % kills and realized about half way through testing on battlefield that upsmash has a sweet spot, normal spot, and low spot for doing damage and knockback. sweet spot is RIGHT next to olimar. normal is having a little space between the two, and low is far from olimar, but still within the hitbox. idk which to test. it's very tedious work to get the normal hit instead if a sweet spotted hit. Do i test both? or all three?

here's the damage i got w/ all three w/ a purple pikmen.

sweet spot- 29
normal- 16
low- 12
____

On topic:
i searched for this, but didn't find it:

when doing my testing i found out that if your opponent starts a smash attack and u interupt it w/ another faster smash attack, and u hit, then your opponents knockback will be greatky increased. Is this new or have i just been oblivious to the whole thing? I'm very sure it's not DI btw.

 

[shrinkray21]

For Pyronic - I'm with you - if you can keep track of your whistling, its very very very useful - however, I've used it over 20 times in one game...its get hard to keep track at that point - plus with tossing - you could just toss them at your opponent and still get to the pikmin you wanted. Lets take your same scenerio - 110% damage on fd - you are across stage from your opponent. Lets say you have 6 pikmin, a blue is 4th and purple is 5th. If you move forward while tossing pikmin you could bait your opponent into a grab, however, if that fails, a hyphen smash or fair are equally useful - especially if you hit your opponent with any of the pikmin. - Either way - whistling is useful most of the time, but there are times when chucking is just plain better - however, you have made great points on this topic over and over again, keep it up!

For Dangr - post a link to the thread and i'll post in there when I get a chance - but for now - I can imagine how incredibly tedious that it would be to test all three...but i'm assuming the point of the study is to check at what damage you can get a kill with on a clean usmash?...in that case, if someone misses the sweetspot then they have made the mistake, so I would go for sweetspot, b/c the goal would be to find the lowest damage possible to get a kill.

 

[DanGR]

For Dangr - post a link to the thread and i'll post in there when I get a chance - but for now - I can imagine how incredibly tedious that it would be to test all three...but i'm assuming the point of the study is to check at what damage you can get a kill with on a clean usmash?...in that case, if someone misses the sweetspot then they have made the mistake, so I would go for sweetspot, b/c the goal would be to find the lowest damage possible to get a kill.

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=164450
here it is, anyone else got suggestions?

i'm thinking i agree w/ shrink on this one so far, unless anyone else can give me a better reason to do the normal hit. the only other reason for doing the normal hit would be that it's a lot harder to get the sweetspot in a real game b/c u'd have to use it right up next to them, maybe after a shield into an upsmash.

 

[Jarri]

Whoa: just noticed something useful yesterday. If you're playing an Ike and he wants to fB you, just throw some Pikmin on him. Whenever he wants to start 'dashing' to you then, he will be held on his spot because he hasn't killed that one Pikmin yet. Saved me a lot of times already.

 

[Pyronic_Star]

don't ask me why i'm still up haha but.....

to shrinkray21

i see wht u mean........however with the chuck approach....you have to play and in a sense things have to fall into place or else your be on the wrong pikmin.... with the whistle approach, you can continue to play as you normally would and know that your just one whistle away from doing your throw, and then you can attempt your hyphen smash and know that if that fails.... you are one whistle away from attempting it again. although at the same time....i am an aggressive olimar player, so that could have something to do with me disliking the wait and chuck approach lol

 

[shrinkray21]

don't ask me why i'm still up haha but.....

to shrinkray21

i see wht u mean........however with the chuck approach....you have to play and in a sense things have to fall into place or else your be on the wrong pikmin.... with the whistle approach, you can continue to play as you normally would and know that your just one whistle away from doing your throw, and then you can attempt your hyphen smash and know that if that fails.... you are one whistle away from attempting it again. although at the same time....i am an aggressive olimar player, so that could have something to do with me disliking the wait and chuck approach lol

This is probably shameless self-promotion, but at my core, I'm a very very aggressive player - the marth forums have people hating me b/c I refuse to play the wait and react game...If you watch the vids I have posted, every throw that I make is an attempt to set up something else. Now about a week ago, I only threw white and purple pikmin, but I have evolved my game to be able to be aggressive, but throwing as often as possible.

So I'm on both sides of the fence...I've played like you are now and still do in certain matchups (Tink, Fox, Falco) but from personal experience, I use the whistle more for edge recovery (Okay, 4 whistles to lead with purple type of thing, or invincibility frames on an edgeguarding opponent) but I definitely see what you are saying...I hope at least I have been helpful

 

[Dr. Hyde]

Okay I finished first in a tournament today of 24, not much but hey the first tournament in the Tallahassee area and people were leaving for home.

Some things I took from the tournament, played a great Lucario a good Game & Watch and a very bad Wolf and D3 player.

Stuff I learned,

Lucario that run away and just charge up Aura are ****in lame. Sorry. Not hating the guy that played him, just the play style. The Dodge away as much as possible and when I mess up grab is just stupid. I beat him to hell, by hell I mean 60% combos, the second I grabbed him or got in attacking range. He basically got as far away as possible and made me throw Pikmin at him.

But yeah, painful and long match.

Game & Watch I won without too much danger. The guy was friendly and his game was good. He just could have beaten me if he had hogged teh edge.

D3/ Wolf player was the easiest match I've had.
The match was proof to me that any D3 that tries to spam Forward B will LOSE to Olimar. He wasn't good but that is one reason he used the waddle Ds.
When he switched to Wolf, I basically annihilated his first stock with out any damage. So I felt free to play around when he started to laser.

Forward Smash with a Yellow Pikmin not only beats the laser but will hit the opponent.

That's what I got from it.
Same sort of things I learned while facing Mario with Red Pikmin in the tournament.

Lucas player was nice but really didn't learn anything new other than he hates a loss.
Nothing special otherwise. And yeah Olimar feels good when you win. *Does the Oli dance and sleeps*

 

[Pyronic_Star]

i have a few random questions........

does olimar have a chain grab? like can u d-throw f-air ff and repeat? i think u can but i wasn't sure if it was poor DI by my opponent, and how long can u do this if u can?

next question is, will anyone be at the tourny in Sykesville, MD? and who has been to a brawl tourny and how have you faired.

and my last question is which control scheme do u use? i can confidently say that i am the best brawl player on my campus and there is only one person at my college that can give me competition...... and i use the "unconventional" wiimote and nunchuk. i have my jump tap off and my d-pad are set to smash atk's..... taking the place of my c-stick

 

[_Ubemaya_]

Hey, I really really enjoyed your guide. I think it's the best guide I've ever seen on Smashboards thus far. It's a great idea to have everyone collaborate to add stuff to this. Anyways, I have a suggestion that I think is pretty important.

You have rankings for Power/Range in the beginning, which was new to me (I sort of knew the general order, but not very detailed). However, I think another really big aspect, at least as important as power/range, is priority. Olimar's moves are really weird in terms of power/range/priority, different from the standard (as in, tilts are weak/low priority, smashes have all three, aerials have power/priority, etc.). Yesterday, I was playing a pretty good Metaknight and some of Olimar's moves had very weird priorities. His dash attack went through my F-smashes (I didn't check D-smash though), yet both D-tilt and U-tilt went his dash attacks and F-air approaches. Similarly, against Toon Link his D-air went through my U-smash with ease, but my U-air completely owned it.

You should probably get a comparison of moves against other moves, to complement the comparison of pikmin with each other. I think this would really help us Oli players.


@Pyronic_Star: I also use the Wiimote/Nunchuck, and I also have the d-pad set to smashes. This works very very well for me. Aerials can be used with no DIing toward the direction you're aerialling, and you have a lot more control over your smashes/aerials. Also, I have attack set to A, so that I can attack using the joint/base of my thumb without moving my entire thumb. I have jump set to Z so I can shorthop easily. The one problem is that I have difficulty grabbing, because I can't press A + B at the same time .

 

[DanGR]

True, i read the whole guide finally, and i have a suggestion. i'd place Ness on the easy matchups list. his range sucks, but his pk fire can be a painful. staying airborne is an easy way to solve this. jumping over him and dairing works well. Ness has no grab range, no smash range, basically, and a recovery that is especially easy to gimp w/ olimar's pikmen. These reasons are why i find Ness incredibly easy to face.

Anyone disagree?

 

[Pyronic_Star]

for Ubemaya

i shield grab, opposed to pressing a+b surprisingly............ the speed is the same.. u can even do this with ur dash, just kinda shield cancel it and press a, but yea, thats how i compensate.......... y did u make ur z jump? c didn't work well for u?

 

[OlimarFan]

hey y'all. i mentioned this on my KO% thread, but no-one seems to be commenting. i've been testing olimar's upsmash % kills and realized about half way through testing on battlefield that upsmash has a sweet spot, normal spot, and low spot for doing damage and knockback. sweet spot is RIGHT next to olimar. normal is having a little space between the two, and low is far from olimar, but still within the hitbox. idk which to test. it's very tedious work to get the normal hit instead if a sweet spotted hit. Do i test both? or all three?

here's the damage i got w/ all three w/ a purple pikmen.

sweet spot- 29
normal- 16
low- 12
____

On topic:
i searched for this, but didn't find it:

when doing my testing i found out that if your opponent starts a smash attack and u interupt it w/ another faster smash attack, and u hit, then your opponents knockback will be greatky increased. Is this new or have i just been oblivious to the whole thing? I'm very sure it's not DI btw.

Holy cow...Sweetspot 29 Damage! Are you sure?

 

[DanGR]

i'm very sure, it was with a purple

 

[_Ubemaya_]

for Ubemaya

i shield grab, opposed to pressing a+b surprisingly............ the speed is the same.. u can even do this with ur dash, just kinda shield cancel it and press a, but yea, thats how i compensate.......... y did u make ur z jump? c didn't work well for u?

I couldn't short hop very well with C. Short hopping is extremely easy and consistent with Z, though. I couldn't think of any other reasons why jumping with C > jumping with Z, so I made the switch.

 

[Pyronic_Star]

to Ubemaya
kinda random.... but shield + a has the same effect as a+b so thats an option if its easier for , there exactly the same, not a shield grab like i thought.

to all
just random tidbit........ when u do d-throw -> f-air u can d-throw with a white pikmin when there damage is a little higher and they normally are out of reach.... i wanna say it works to about 50-60.... i may check later specifically, but i'm to lazy atm lol
also something to note.... at low percentages if you d-throw with a white pikmin, you can normally f-smash immediately after since the opponent doesn't go to high

 

[M3zm3r1z3]

down throw is a nice set up for the up+B

 

[HollaAtchaBoy]

down throw is a nice set up for the up+B

At low percentages I throw out Down Throw to Upsmash to Up+B.

****** in a Spacesuit Sexyness.

 

[M3zm3r1z3]

ahh I'll have to do that instead. I also get off dthrow-->nair-->uptilt some of the time although I'm sure it's easy to escape

 

[Pyronic_Star]

-M3zm3r1z3
what percentage range does this stop working at? and can u repeat the grab (like with the d-throw ->f-air ff repeat) or is it a one time thing?

-HollaAtchaBoy
how are you able to up-smash them after? is it gaurenteed? or does it depend on how they DI?

outta curiosity....... d-throw -> sh f-air -> ff-> d-throw can anyone do this 3 times without the opponent getting out of it? i can do it twice always but mess up sometimes with the third, was wondering if i just need to practice it more? or can it only be done on certain characters 3 times? or is it only a for sure thing twice?

 

[vvspidervv]

i like to dthrow+ upsmash +uair+ upb

 

[M3zm3r1z3]

-Pyronic Star
I guess it stops working when the d throw throws them higher than your upB which is I think mid-high range it stops working. And I don't think you can do the d-throw fair combo without them getting out of it since if they hit the ground you can't grab someone lying on the ground or they can probably just jump out of it.

 

[HollaAtchaBoy]

-HollaAtchaBoy
how are you able to up-smash them after? is it gaurenteed? or does it depend on how they DI?

You have to read their DI and usually "hyphen smash" (which is a name I hate) or Boost Smash the Upsmash into them.

It's not that hard to do after a few tries.

 

[Pyronic_Star]

I guess it stops working when the d throw throws them higher than your upB which is I think mid-high range it stops working. And I don't think you can do the d-throw fair combo without them getting out of it since if they hit the ground you can't grab someone lying on the ground or they can probably just jump out of it.

well, i was basing it off of 0% because, thats how i start the match and i get people to 40% = from the jump lol. but, if someone lands on your pikmin as you pikmin throw, they will get grabbed, so after d-throw, u f-air them so that there stunned and if u ff, u hit the ground before them and can grab and either they just hit the ground and u get them, or they land on the pikmin and u grab them... like for me, after the second one.... i am normally just a tad bit to far for the third grab.... so i was thinking that mayb ei need o di toward them more while i f-air or maybe i need to dash grab

side not... if you combo people with this, at one point they will begin to air dodge... so u can use this as a mind game and hit them when they finish their air dodge... or u can throw in up-b's to throw off timings.... although it sounds like u two do the up-b regardless lol

-holla
can't they air dodge the hyphen smash? since u haven't done anything to stun them while they are in the air?

 

[M3zm3r1z3]

what does ff stand for and what does hyphen smash stand for/mean?

edit: im sure it's obvious just couldn't think of what it would stand for

 

[Pyronic_Star]

ff = fast fall
hyphen smash.... is when u up-smash while dashing... u kinda slide a bit, the slide depends on the character

 

[shrinkray21]

True - To be honest, I don't know if you have covered this but I have learned a new technique that is kinda common sense but its been working very well.

When you do up b as an attack you can a slight sense of verticle distance but you free fall after you do it...which is very annoying. However, on any stage with a platform, doing the up b right as you hit the platform causes you to do the up b and immediately land on the platform and lose all lag animation!! Great for attacking and also takes the negative out of the up b. Like I said, if you covered this already, just ignore me and take the free bump

 

[Pyronic_Star]

since shrink brought up the up-b .......... u can also tap shield or smash atk immediately with no lag if you time it right, the easiest way to do it if you don't have the timing is keep tapping shield as you land and your see what i mean

 

[Tristan Fattest of All Kids]

You're like good at this game.

 

[shrinkray21]

since shrink brought up the up-b .......... u can also tap shield or smash atk immediately with no lag if you time it right, the easiest way to do it if you don't have the timing is keep tapping shield as you land and your see what i mean

After the up b in a freefall, or just if you cancel it on a platform?