Advanced Olimar Discussion (Start of Big Update 5/6)

[Pyronic_Star]

After the up b in a freefall, or just if you cancel it on a platform?

cancel it when you hit the ground... srry lol, i know its pretty common knowledge, but just in case someone didn't know i posted it lol

 

[shrinkray21]

Okay, lols don't worry about it, as long as you don't make a random thread stating it, I don't think anyone would care that you are pointing out common knowledge :D

 

[Pyronic_Star]

i remember reading something about olimar being able to imeadiately jump once he grabs the edge and i was just wondering how do u exactly do it?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcxcVUqXxSs
like in this vid he can fair from the edge faster than i normally do, and i was wondering what exactly is he doing and how?

edit: this was just a suggestion that i'm going to start trying to do... i noticed that the you can almost immediately fair after f-b, so i'm going to start sh -> f-b -> fair for the extra damage, i figure i can do this and as long as i'm really fast with it i won't be hindered with it also. f-b also looks exactly like the fair but with no pikmin in hand....... i'm thinking this could lead to potential mind games against people.

anyone agree or disagree with this idea? or is it something thats been going on and i have just been unaware of it? lol

 

[shrinkray21]

Tether recovery's have no lag after you bring them to the edge - this is most evident with zamus but after olly does his tether, push up, then attack, the attack will have no lag.

on your edit: explain this entire theory again...I'm not quite getting what you are saying...maybe vid?

 

[Pyronic_Star]

gotta get battery's to make a vid lol

but basically..... imagine sh fairing to approach someone. u can only do one fair during a sh... so i was seeing if i could do anything else with the time i waste, so i threw pikmin. i then noticed that a pikmin throw followed by a fair seems to have very little lag... almost to the point that i hink it will be possible to hit someone with a pikmin throw every time you fair as long as your incredibly fast and space properly as you fair. i'm also thinking that maybe you can mind game your opponent into air dodgeing with a pikmin throw in the air because with the exception of the actual throw of the pikmin, it looks like u r fairing with no pikmin. but thats kinda a further off theory. the main thing is that with the pikmin throw right before the fair, they get hit with a move.... either the pikmin latches and they dodge the fair... or the dodge the pikmin and get hit by the fair.

edit: and then i'm thinking this could be even more useful by DIing back as you do this to prevent being hit

edit again lol: i semi-mind gamed my friend with it today, sh -> pikmin throw -> fair.... after doing it a few times he stopped caring about the pikmin thro and watched out for the fair.... but then i just switched to sh -> fair -> pikmin throw.... so if yor succesful with this, u can just switch between the two so your oppenent won't know which to watch out for. u asked about a vid maybe, i'll post one when i get batteris said that already lol) and when i can do it while fighting the way i want to.

 

[shrinkray21]

okay, i know exactly what you are doing now - this is a technique I use - but only with PURPLE PIKMIN - if they aren't dumb they simply attack through the throw - trust me, good people read this very very quickly - good idea though.

 

[Pyronic_Star]

i'm thinking that after they read throw it, u just switch the order, so there get fair.... then after a few times there stop atking through it and you can go back to throwing first

 

[scalpel]

Video

Hi everyone.

I noticed that although Corneria is listed as one of Olimar's best stages, some people still don't agree. So, I decided to make a video showing why Corneria is, in my opinion, Olimar's best stage of all.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZVvJlzb3e8

Ratings and comments are appreciated.

 

[DanGR]

13/10 Gaz
the picture, music, and words on the screen fit perfectly together.

anyways, i totally agree with you. no-one can hit you with any projectiles when you own the hill. And the slope enables you to use >b perfectly. you don't have to jump, or move any. the only thing that i'd watch out for is that you need enough space to roll backwards when you're on the hill. if you don't, your movement can be predicted much easier. same reason why in melee you had a huge disadvantage after getting cornered on the ledge.

 

[shrinkray21]

To be honest...I hate hate hate hate hate corneria and have banned it at every tourney that I have been to in the last 2 years...The video was good but there is nothing that can make me want to play corneria :D

 

[scalpel]

To be honest...I hate hate hate hate hate corneria and have banned it at every tourney that I have been to in the last 2 years...The video was good but there is nothing that can make me want to play corneria :D

May I ask why you hate Corneria?

I understand Corneria is not for every player or character, but in my opinion, it is almost too perfect for Olimar. I'm not so sure about other characters, but Corneria seems to suit the way I play Olimar well.

 

[shrinkray21]

well the reason I dislike it has nothing to do with how it fits for Olly to be honest...it has everything to do with the nature of teh stage itself...you win on Corneria by camping and abusing the bottom area...I'm big into competative gaming...and the stage just feels too imbalanced...as is a lesser skilled player can beat better players...plus...snakes are sooooo cheap on there

 

[DanGR]

i've a question for y'all. I mostly play against ic and sheik with olimar b/c that's who the main friend I play with mains. Are they good practice for edge guarding?? I just thought about it and decided to post.

1) ic can be gimped easily if you can manage to knock away nana.

2) shiek and zelda have very-hard-to-gimp recoveries.(that is, until they land)

3) i feel like I don't get much good practice against "normal" characters that can be gimped like, let's say lucario, ivysaur, fox, falco, tink, DDD, so on and so forth.

Do you agree?

 

[Dr. Hyde]

1) agree
2)agree
3) disagree umm I get plenty of practice thanks

 

[DanGR]

3) i feel like I don't get much good practice against "normal" characters that can be gimped like, let's say lucario, ivysaur, fox, falco, tink, DDD, so on and so forth.

lemme re-say this. I don't get good practice, when fighting these characters specifically b/c their recoveries are so odd, for when I'll later play "normal characters".

disagree still? hope this clarified.

 

[Pyronic_Star]

about the corneria.... i personally feel that a stage such as lyate cruise is better. mainly because yur up smash goes through the platforms and you can sh fair anyone if their on a platform... but thats just me. i have also found delphino plaza to be good due to the platforms and the boundaries is small when you are on the ground. you also have the water to rely on at times (even though most of your pikman will die) and you can spike people through water.

 

[DarkStraw]

I heard someone say olimars Fmash clanks with ivysaurs razorleafe so i tested it, it dosent but! olimars down smash cancels out razor leafe.... which is really nice because i have problems with a razor leafe spamming ivysaur sometimes. it mulches through my pikmin except purple.

I would also like to say, i heard someone somewhere say olimars up tilt out prioritizes wolfs Fsmash, id be interested in knowing what other moves his netrual a and up tilt can out prioritise for any characters that you know of. i really dont use the moves much but if i had a use for them i would use them more.

 

[shrinkray21]

Awww...thanks for the compliment and plug in the video section...lols...

I do have a comment to make - Squirtle should be moved into the easy section - when the game first came out his advanced meta game compared to olly was hard to deal with but now with the game out for a while and playing a PT on a regular basis, I believe that this needs to be moved to the easy section - you can listen to PTs complain about olly here

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=156038 - the last page has some really good opinions by firewulf and others saying specifically why olly ***** their squirtle.

P.S. - here are some olly latch tricks that I think would fit into this guide True - the forum just went up on the first page

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGIlHrU4m1c

 

[scalpel]

about the corneria.... i personally feel that a stage such as lyate cruise is better. mainly because yur up smash goes through the platforms and you can sh fair anyone if their on a platform... but thats just me. i have also found delphino plaza to be good due to the platforms and the boundaries is small when you are on the ground. you also have the water to rely on at times (even though most of your pikman will die) and you can spike people through water.

Good points. Yes, I agree that Olimar can be quite effective on other stages, too. About the short-hopped forward-airs and up-smashing through platforms: yes, Olimar can do those things, and that's good. However, your opponents can do them to you, as well. Olimar may be able to attack through platforms effectively, but opponents can use that to their advantage just as effectively. I thought I'd point that out.

That's why I like Corneria. Usually, I prefer stages that have platforms. They are good against opponents who like to spam projectiles, like Fox, Falco, and Wolf's lasers. Jumping onto the platforms is an easy way to escape projectiles. HOWEVER, Corneria's uneven stage eliminates the need to worry about projectiles. I just simply stand on top of the dorsal fin of the ship, and I am safe from most projectiles. I don't even need platforms, in this sense. That's one of the reasons why I personally believe Corneria is Olimar's best stage.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZVvJlzb3e8

 

[OlimarFan]

Good points. Yes, I agree that Olimar can be quite effective on other stages, too. About the short-hopped forward-airs and up-smashing through platforms: yes, Olimar can do those things, and that's good. However, your opponents can do them to you, as well. Olimar may be able to attack through platforms effectively, but opponents can use that to their advantage just as effectively. I thought I'd point that out.

That's why I like Corneria. Usually, I prefer stages that have platforms. They are good against opponents who like to spam projectiles, like Fox, Falco, and Wolf's lasers. Jumping onto the platforms is an easy way to escape projectiles. HOWEVER, Corneria's uneven stage eliminates the need to worry about projectiles. I just simply stand on top of the dorsal fin of the ship, and I am safe from most projectiles. I don't even need platforms, in this sense. That's one of the reasons why I personally believe Corneria is Olimar's best stage.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZVvJlzb3e8

Fair point about the Corneria stage matter...But what if someone like Snake, Pit or Samus keep their distance? Surely their projectiles would get Olimar!

 

[DanGR]

Fair point about the Corneria stage matter...But what if someone like Snake, Pit or Samus keep their distance? Surely their projectiles would get Olimar!

I'm a firm believer that olimar's pikmen are the BEST projectiles. The only character's that can out-camp olimar are the space animals falco and fox. On corneria, if you can stay at the top like Gaz explained, you should be able to out-camp anyone including the space animals.



olimar>zelda- see my arguement in the matchup thread page 69-
http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=157979&page=69

 

[Dyyne]

Also, since olimar is a light character and can be easily ko'd, the fin is good for teching at higher percents, if your good at it.

not related at all but...Well, yesterday i was practicing my teching, and as we all know, cpus are crazy in brawl. well today, i was messin around as mk against a cpu bowser (random) on sky world. we were under the left platform, but standing on the bottom one. i frickin d-smashed 4 times, one after the other, and the cpu teched every single one of them at 180%....now theyre techin all over the place...how crazy is that?

 

[Preciselymb]

Practically all of the people I play with play falco, and, in my opinion, it is a very hard matchup. I also know someone who plays snake, and olimar is really good against him. Wario to me seems like a hard matchup from the couple times I've played one, but I really don't know. Not many of my friends play smash, though, so...it's hard for me to tell.

 

[Dr. Hyde]

to the poster above ^^ what are the Falco's doing that's so difficult?

Also. Coneria =banned stage the last few tournaments I went to.

Thought I'd say that since it's probably not going to be there in a real tournament.
I'm gonna try some random stuff with Olimar on some different stages and see if there's anything worth noting, for his benefit.

 

[XalchemistX]

I think that the best thing for Olimar is to keep a great distance between u and the enemy. The best way of throwing the Pikmin is throwing it while jumping. Its not the best thing to have platforms to distract u from jumping because when the enemy is geting back on the stage, its ur best chance to get as much Pikmin as posible on ur enemy.

 

[DanGR]

falco and foxes laser and reflector outcamps olimar on semi-flat stages. It's faster. that's all. It forces olimar to be aggro. (it's kinda embarrssing when olimar is outcamped.)

 

[TrueRedemption]

Olimar isn't a strong campy character in the projectile spam sense. Olimar is a campy character in the light that he plays strongest when sitting just outside of his or his opponent's range and attacking when they enter the space. Latch is NOT a good projectile when compared to the rest of the projectiles in the game. It has little to no priority on other projectiles, it has no knockback on a consistently reliable basis, its range isn't the most impressive, its damage is very preventable, you don't even need a disjointed hit box to connect with it in order to prevent any damage. Just think about latch, compared to almost any other projectile in the game it pales in comparison against a real life opponent.

But so often its called SOOO good! Why is that? Easy, latch is good against Other campy characters or playstyles. So people afraid of latch, who don't rush olimar out of fear or whatever, do suffer from pikmin barrage, and comment on it. So what does this mean for the competative less extreme player? Consider latch as not a projectile, but actually a very good Anti Projectile. In the simplest sense, many incoming projectiles are blocked by tossed/returning pikmin. That gives you more space and time to approach the correct spacing. Even better than a random disjointed hit box that can act as a wall and allow you to approach your projectile spamming opponents untouched, if you do land a latched pikmin, it puts your opponents at a crossroads. They must either continue their barrage, and eat damage from the latched pikmin, or they must stop their attack to do a different attack and deal with the flower incessantly head butting them. By forcing this situation, you can respond to their decision, if they take the damage sure keep up the latching, if they stop get setup, or if in range maybe you can even land an attack. Anyway i'm starting to ramble, i've made my point. Latch isn't a projectile but an anti projectile, camping doesn't just mean sitting on a side and throwing/shooting stuff, and Liverpool FC is the best team around.



-True

 

[WhoseReality?]

While we're on the subject of latch, maybe I can work in this technique I sometimes use. I posted it in the white pikmin thread, but it had already died, so maybe it'll get some better attention here.

If Olimar picks a white pikmin first, I'll throw it at my opponent from the starting position instead of immediately plucking. Although this doesn't always work, if it connects it will rack up quick damage before the opponent even realized what was going on. Once the pikmin is thrown, I immediately start plucking. Or roll dodge back and pluck if the opponent is running at me. There is obvious risk in this tactic, but it could be a good one to mix in since most people expect some free time at the beginning of a match when playing against Olimar. Also, I doubt few (any) opponents are paying attention to Olimar's line-up during the pre-match pluck so they definitely wouldn't expect it. I'd be interested to hear thoughts about this, and I'd recommend giving it a try.

 

[shrinkray21]

While we're on the subject of latch, maybe I can work in this technique I sometimes use. I posted it in the white pikmin thread, but it had already died, so maybe it'll get some better attention here.

If Olimar picks a white pikmin first, I'll throw it at my opponent from the starting position instead of immediately plucking. Although this doesn't always work, if it connects it will rack up quick damage before the opponent even realized what was going on. Once the pikmin is thrown, I immediately start plucking. Or roll dodge back and pluck if the opponent is running at me. There is obvious risk in this tactic, but it could be a good one to mix in since most people expect some free time at the beginning of a match when playing against Olimar. Also, I doubt few (any) opponents are paying attention to Olimar's line-up during the pre-match pluck so they definitely wouldn't expect it. I'd be interested to hear thoughts about this, and I'd recommend giving it a try.

where is the risk in that tactic?

 

[WhoseReality?]

the problem would be if you threw the white pikmin and the opponent was able to start attacking you before you were able to pull more. you would be stuck with 2-3 pikmin at the start, which is not ideal.

 

[ne_Ziggy]

You can always pick pikmin sparingly. I don't know why people use this technique more...

Enemy rushes.
Pick one pikmin and shield or evade attack.
Pick another pikmin.
Counter if they rush again?
Pick another pikmin.
etc.

What most people don't realize is that they don't NEED all six pikmin at all times, yet they still try to pluck all of them at once, despite the fact that it's totally unnecessary to have all six at the beginning of the fight when you're at 0% and not going to be knocked off the stage for a while. Olimar suffers slightly more lag plucking multiple pikmin than if he only plucks one.

 

[shrinkray21]

the problem would be if you threw the white pikmin and the opponent was able to start attacking you before you were able to pull more. you would be stuck with 2-3 pikmin at the start, which is not ideal.

I know that I have a different style olly than most of the people but from what i've seen - very few "good" olly's play with 6 pikmin all game...usually good opponents do not allow that.

 

[Pyronic_Star]

I know that I have a different style olly than most of the people but from what i've seen - very few "good" olly's play with 6 pikmin all game...usually good opponents do not allow that.

i'm going to disagree... i've played people like azen and forte... and it was not hard to have 6 pikmin... and its normally against good players that you need all 6 pikmin because they can often get you off the edge more so than players of less skill.

 

[WhoseReality?]

While we're on the subject of latch, maybe I can work in this technique I sometimes use. I posted it in the white pikmin thread, but it had already died, so maybe it'll get some better attention here.

If Olimar picks a white pikmin first, I'll throw it at my opponent from the starting position instead of immediately plucking. Although this doesn't always work, if it connects it will rack up quick damage before the opponent even realized what was going on. Once the pikmin is thrown, I immediately start plucking. Or roll dodge back and pluck if the opponent is running at me. There is obvious risk in this tactic, but it could be a good one to mix in since most people expect some free time at the beginning of a match when playing against Olimar. Also, I doubt few (any) opponents are paying attention to Olimar's line-up during the pre-match pluck so they definitely wouldn't expect it. I'd be interested to hear thoughts about this, and I'd recommend giving it a try.

well yea, you need all six pikmin, but a better player will make you cycle through them more quickly and you won't always have all six.

 

[fouxs2]

You don't NEED six Pikmin at the start of a match, but he plucks them so fast and you can't really hit them from where they spawn that it's just natural to pluck the rest at the start. There really is no reason NOT to have six in there.

 

[scalpel]

Olimar vs Olimar

I like how, in NC-Echo's guide, all characters have a difficulty rating of 1 to 10, but Olimar is rated "Annoying". It's so true!

I've been playing a lot of Olimar vs Olimar matches lately, and wow have I learned a lot! I find Olimar's jabs and tilts to be amazing against another Olimar opponent.

Also, Olimar's jabs have priority over Olimar's forward smash! Take a look:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bI-xOGZVUZw (1:22)

Mr. X tried to forward smash me with a yellow Pikmin, but my jab deflected it.

I cannot describe how great of a player Mr. X is. We played together for almost two hours straight, and he made me realize how awful of a player I am. I knew I wasn't good, but after playing against such an amazing player, it just really opened my eyes. Now I am deeply humbled by my experience, and I just have to work even harder to improve. Mr. X and I played an insane amount of matches (each fight was extremely short ). I only beat him ONCE, and even then, I thought I should have lost. Once I realized how effective Olimar's jabs and tilts were, I actually had a slim, slim chance of winning. I'm talking about a 1% chance of winning against Mr. X.

Anyways, I thought I'd offer that bit of info. Olimar's jabs and tilts are amazing against another Olimar. Also, Olimar's jabs have priority over another Olimar's forward smash.

 

[HollaAtchaBoy]

I like how, in NC-Echo's guide, all characters have a difficulty rating of 1 to 10, but Olimar is rated "Annoying". It's so true!

I've been playing a lot of Olimar vs Olimar matches lately, and wow have I learned a lot! I find Olimar's jabs and tilts to be amazing against another Olimar opponent.

Also, Olimar's jabs have priority over Olimar's forward smash! Take a look:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yn1B_kXvcl0 (1:22)

Mr. X tried to forward smash me with a yellow Pikmin, but my jab deflected it.

I cannot describe how great of a player Mr. X is. We played together for almost two hours straight, and he made me realize how awful of a player I am. I knew I wasn't good, but after playing against such an amazing player, it just really opened my eyes. Now I am deeply humbled by my experience, and I just have to work even harder to improve. Mr. X and I played an insane amount of matches (each fight was extremely short ). I only beat him ONCE, and even then, I thought I should have lost. Once I realized how effective Olimar's jabs and tilts were, I actually had a slim, slim chance of winning. I'm talking about a 1% chance of winning against Mr. X.

Anyways, I thought I'd offer that bit of info. Olimar's jabs and tilts are amazing against another Olimar. Also, Olimar's jabs have priority over another Olimar's forward smash.

I love you Gaz.

 

[scalpel]

Oops! It looks like YouTube removed my video because I used a song by Ayumi Hamasaki. I liked that song...

Anyways, I re-uploaded the video with a new song.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bI-xOGZVUZw (1:22)

As you can see, Olimar's jab has priority over another Olimar's forward-smash.

Aw, thanks HollaAtchaBoy. But may I ask what I did that made you love me?

 

[HollaAtchaBoy]

Had the cajones to do many many Olimar dittoes.

My Olimar is good but I try very very hard to never do them.

 

[Dotcom]

Ok that was just great. Yeah when school is over i'm going to help you with the Character Specific notes.
BTW Pit should definitely be moved from the easy match ups, moved to at least Fair.