Event - E3 Invitational 2014 Addressing the Smash 4 hate

[Vital Tundra]

Its trash if you take into account how bad it is compared to melee.

But if you ignore the existence of melee.... yes is a nice party game indeed.

I don't remember Melee having more characters, more options for Brawls, more stages, more music, a ton of single player content, really I just don't remember it having any where near as much content. Melee is bare bones compared to Brawl. I think Melee's gameplay is faster, and thats great, but to say Brawl is trash compared to Melee is an absolute garbage opinion. Brawls gameplay is great, Melee's is phenomenal.

 

[Morbi]

I feel as though the real detrimental issue was the Melee did NOT cater to the competitive crowd. It was inherently casual; however, it had the capacity to be competitive as well. Something that has kept the game alive for YEARS. Longevity is important and most players start out casually and evolve into competitive players if they are passionate about the game. There was far less passion in Brawl as the game intentionally desecrated competitive elements. Mistakes happen, people expected more for Smash 4 as the notion became apparent. It was not. THAT IS THE PROBLEM. There is not elitism prevalent here, people are disappointed because they are excluded. It is SO easy for a player like me to say, "they do not want to cater to you because you are the minority" and it is much harder to have to endure that. It defeats the purpose of the game for some of the most important fans. The ones that are guaranteed to play the game for a long time, the ones that incite others to keep it alive, the ones who would spend money to play the game far after release. If you cannot see that, there is no reason for further comment as you are clearly not aware of the problem, how could you hope to discuss anything pertaining to the issue?

 

[CroonerMike]

I mean there is a simple way to fix this problem.

People who want it more like Melee...Go play Melee. We don't want to hear you complain about it. Be nice to the people who love the new game, Do not rub how fantastic Melee is. You got your perfect game. Great Job

People who like the new game. Congratulations you like the new game and can adjust to the future. Don't rub it in others faces. Be kind toward the Naysayers. Enjoy the game. :D

 

[Morbi]

I mean there is a simple way to fix this problem.

People who want it more like Melee...Go play Melee. We don't want to hear you complain about it. Be nice to the people who love the new game, Do not rub how fantastic Melee is. You got your perfect game. Great Job

People who like the new game. Congratulations you like the new game and can adjust to the future. Don't rub it in others faces. Be kind toward the Naysayers. Enjoy the game. :D

Do not worry, that is what will happen.

 

[Rich Homie Quan]

I'm just happy I'm getting new smash. No doubt that I'm gonna get a **** ton of fun out of this.

There's no reason to complain or hate about anything. It's a game, all bets are on it being good. If it's not Melee 2.0, so be it. It's gonna be awesome regardless.

Don't let your hype elevate your expectations to the point where the game can't meet them and don't let your love for Melee ruin for you what could be a perfectly good game.

 

[MasterMushroom]

Do not worry, that is what will happen.

Basically this. I applaud the topic creator for making the thread but the matter of the fact everyone is entitled to the opinion still stands. The real issue is one person asking the other (or in general), why can't these people like X game; to which the person being asked take this as a threat (whether it is or not is a different issue).

Both individuals start arguing and then fans of each game come at both sides to defend themselves and start pointing fingers. All while those in the grey area wished it'll stop

Arguments are bound to happen with any series, especially the smash series. I don't believe something so simple like this topic can prevent future problems like that.

And I'm sure everyone knows there won't be a Melee 2.0. There was a reason Sakurai left Hal according to an old interview (forgot the name but it had a disco Kirby image). He felt overworked and that his creative freedom was limited, his words. The reason Melee became the thing it was (along with 64) was because of the hard work of HAL, right down to the mechanics. Why do you think post-Hal smash games are so different than games when Hal was made?

Each game is create as it's own entity, not as an improvement or continuation as the last; despite how much people argue that it should. There are many developers out there who do this; one of which is Sakurai. As such, there's bound to be fans who are loyal to one game over others. Turf wars over matters like this happens, just look at the street fighter series.

Tl;dr: While it's a great for someone to sincerely ask people to not argue about their favorite games; it's going to happen regardless. Not like it matters anyway, everyone will have their own bubble (as broad or small I may be). Games will sell, Nintendo will make money, and life will move on. I don't believe anyone at all thought this was going to be Melee 2.0; not after the interviews and comments he's given to the public

 

[Deleted member 212841]

Not sure if it's been posted already but a friend of mine has been insisting I share this as it's really insightful. This thread was the best excuse I could find. :^)

http://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/27wshi/praxis_reply_to_what_makes_a_game_competitive_and/

 

[EZVega]

I'm surprised this post actually got a decent amount of good replies. A lot of you guys make some really valid points on both sides of the spectrum. It is actually pretty nice to see a tame and mature discussion about the community and the upcoming Smash 4. Yes, both sides are entitled to their opinion and I do feel that L-Canceling would be a nice addition to Smash 4 myself. Though, I can do without it if Sakurai doesn't want to put it in.

I think the developers are doing a fine job and I would pay for a copy of both versions. I may have to adapt to a new style of play, but I'm pretty aggressive player and I'll find a way to make it work. It really won't feel any different from playing Street Fighter or Melty Blood to me. Smash 4 is a pretty nice rendition of what traditional cabinet fighters are like, and a lot of newcomers will definitely enjoy it. Regardless of the disapproval from any Smash group, as MasterMushroom said, the game will still sell big and Nintendo's going to keep it moving. After all, despite being a big fan of Melee and Project M, I don't mind a change in pace. I didn't like Brawl, but I had a lot of fun with it when I wasn't playing for competition. I think everyone can have a little fun some way, even if they're just playing at a friends' with their copy.

All I have left to say in the end whether I'm buying or not (which I am) is "Thank you, Sakurai!"

 

[Zone]

I just feel like we have a Resident Evil like Scenario on our hands.

It went from Survival horror and being scary, into action.

I happen to like Action and Survival horror,

I'd imagine people who play brawl/Melee, like playing the neutral game at all times(In brawl you get this ALOT more often which is why a lot of people feel like they're thinking more), as well as pressure/combos(melee).

The people who liked Survival horror but not action are constantly complaining and saying the series is going to die ect ect.


This is the same with Melee/Smash4. We feel like we're never going to get a new version of what we love so much. We want to live new characters and see changes to old, try out new things. But because they stick with Brawl's formula more, we feel left behind.

Much like the survival horror fans feel left behind in the Resident Evil series.

It's very possible to make a smash game cater to casual and competitive. Melee is a perfect Example, I'd even say 64 as well. To not even attempt to ACTUALLY cater toward a group of people just feels like we're being swept under the rug.

 

[Crimefridge]

First, I'd like to note that Smash 4 is still in development and has not been completed. Nintendo has made available a [possibly glitchy] demo version of the game months before its release..

No, you wish buddy. Brawl's demo didn't change much at all from the final release, and they only have 3 months. SSB4 will be, for the most part, exactly what you saw in E3.

 

[HoodsxX]

IMO NO ONE at that event probably even knew what stage that build was at during the invitational so frankly no one should be even calling what they see as a BETA Brawl 2.0 without actually knowing how far in development Sakurai is with Smash 4. So you really all should just keep quiet and wait till the 3DS version comes out before saying anything about the game in general.

 

[hariooo]

IMO NO ONE at that event probably even knew what stage that build was at during the invitational so frankly no one should be even calling what they see as a BETA Brawl 2.0 without actually knowing how far in development Sakurai is with Smash 4. So you really all should just keep quiet and wait till the 3DS version comes out before saying anything about the game in general.

The game is 2 months from done lol.

 

[HoodsxX]

The game is 2 months from done lol.

Wut? I didn't know Holiday Season was 2 months away. I musta been sleeping or something...

 

[Braggins]

Anyone who is saying that this game was meant to be for the casual and competitive community really understand what makes a game competitive and what the competitive community wants. Some of you just don't get this. This game is another slap in the face to the competitive community and they have every right to be upset and complain. Brawl almost killed the community because it completely ignored the competitive community and this game looks to possibly be even worse in that regard. It isn't that the community is toxic. The problem is that the developers seem to literally have some kind of contempt for a large portion of the fanbase and are doing everything they can to ignore what they want and alienate them. Sorry if I'm not thankful that Nintendo is making another smash game that I'm going to have absolutely no interest in playing.

 

[BladeOFLucas]

I completely agree with the person who started this thread, this isn't Melee guys. And it most certainly is not Brawl. Did you guys see the combos? I know they were limited, but most of the matches were 4-for-alls, a very hectic and unstable match set-up, so the combo potential is real for 1v1s. And unlike Brawl, these combos were evident from the getgo, you guys are judging the game before you get to try it. A lot of people didn't see the combo potential for Melee until they actually held it in their hands. And talk about in-game character diversity! That was really fun to watch, so don't get so worked up. And Brawl isn't my cup of tea, nor am I a Melee player, I play PM, which combines elements from both games. This game looks different from everything else, and if some players are having a tantrum because Sakurai did something they didn't want (newsflash, Sakurai doesn't even call it a fighting game, he calls it a grand party battle royale free-for-all), then get over it, what he wants has always been different from what everybody else in the fighting game industry thinks is right. This could very well be even better than Melee, dare I say it. Not only that, but new hidden things similar to the wavedash could be revealed with in-depth game play. This could be the best of both worlds, to borrow the old cliche. The hype is not dead, long live the hype!

 

[Shroob]

Anyone who is saying that this game was meant to be the casual and competitive community have no understanding of what makes a game competitive and what the competitive community wants. Some of you just don't get this. This game is another slap in the face to the competitive community and they have every right to be upset and complain. Brawl almost killed the community because it completely ignored the competitive community and this game looks to possibly be even worse in that regard. It isn't that the community is toxic it is that the developers seem to literally have some kind of contempt for a large portion of the fanbase and are doing everything they can to ignore what they want and alienate them. Sorry if I'm not thankful that Nintendo is making another smash game that I'm going to have absolutely no interest in playing.

Well, pardon my French, but maybe it's time for the community to move on.

You've all been stuck in the past for so long and you won't let go. You claim to be a 'fighting game' community, but you know what fighting game communities do? They move on and adapt to new games. Look at Street Fighter. Do you still see Street Fighter 2 or Third Strike as the main points? No, the majority of players moved onto whatever version that 4 is on right now. The point is, real fighting game communities change as time goes on. Eventually, I feel that the real communities won't even acknowledge Smash again because all you do is play what, a ten year old game and that's it? Sometimes Project M?

Real fighting game communities evolve and adapt, not stagnate and dig their heels in like the Melee fanbase. You're like the Marvel 3 playerbase, playing a game with no hope of patches or updates to it, but you still won't move on from it for whatever reason.

Hell, the only reason people in the FGC even remember you guys is because of the EVO charity event. Sure you got back into EVO, but no king rules forever. Eventually, you'll fade back into obscurity while the rest of the FGC laughs at you all for digging your heels in and not moving on.

 

[Braggins]

The competitive community

Well, pardon my French, but maybe it's time for the community to move on.

You've all been stuck in the past for so long and you won't let go. You claim to be a 'fighting game' community, but you know what fighting game communities do? They move on and adapt to new games. Look at Street Fighter. Do you still see Street Fighter 2 or Third Strike as the main points? No, the majority of players moved onto whatever version that 4 is on right now. The point is, real fighting game communities change as time goes on. Eventually, I feel that the real communities won't even acknowledge Smash again because all you do is play what, a ten year old game and that's it?

Real fighting game communities evolve and adapt, not stagnate and dig their heels in like the Melee fanbase. You're like the Marvel 3 playerbase, playing a game with no hope of patches or updates to it, but you still won't move on from it for whatever reason.

Hell, the only reason people in the FGC even remember you guys is because of the EVO charity event. Sure you got back into EVO, but no king rules forever. Eventually, you'll fade back into obscurity while the rest of the FGC laughs at you all for digging your heels in and not moving on.

We aren't stuck in the past. That is another thing some people don't get. We aren't mad because this isn't like Melee or because there isn't wavedashing or l-cancelling. You can have a good competitive smash game without those things and no reasonable person thought those things were going to be in Smash 4 (maybe l-cancelling). We are annoyed because the game is still dreadfully slow and floaty and you can already see some glaring weaknesses in the gameplay and it literally looks it might be even more dumbed down than Brawl. Why should we have to move on and adapt to a game that might not have much competitive value at all. Are you really implying that we should all just play a game even if we don't enjoy it?

We already have a Melee sequel and its called Project M. People are just annoyed that we were likely ignored again with Smash 4. I'm not upset or anything because I am perfectly content playing other Smash games. I just think the criticism of this game is completely fair and I don't know why some people are so adamant in defending Nintendo for once again letting down the competitive community. Casual players are going to enjoy the game regardless and our complaints aren't going to lessen your enjoyment of the game. It is just kind of insulting when one portion of the community defends Nintendo for disregarding another portion of the community. Why don't you wouldn't you want us to also be able get a game we want? If the game was completely catered to the hardcore crowd to the point where the casual crowd couldn't enjoy it at all people would be completely justified in bashing the game and I would agree with them and not want them to be ignored. I think it is selfish that so many of you act like the game should only be made for you...

 

[Shroob]

The competitive community

We aren't stuck in the past. That is another thing you people don't get. We aren't mad because this isn't like Melee or because there isn't wavedashing or l-cancelling. You can have a good competitive smash game without those things and no reasonable person thought those things were going to be in Smash 4. We are annoyed because the game is still dreadfully slow and floaty and you can already see the glaring weaknesses in the gameplay (from a competitive standpoint) and it literally looks even more dumbed down than Brawl.

Not stuck in the past... forgive my ignorance but considering that you ONLY play Melee from your Melee profile icon there with Falco, then yes, I am afraid you're stuck in the past.

I honestly wonder if this game will even survive in the competitive scene because people will have such a stigmata against it that it won't even have a chance. Likewise, by that time, the next Street Fighter, Kill Instinct, KoF, etc etc reign supreme.


And honestly, I feel like there's a sore, sore sense of entitlement. Reading that Facebook/Twitter post from that person who played at the Invitational did NOT help your image. To me, all it said was "Game's not Melee, sucks."

 

[DraginHikari]

The last few days around here have been extremely tiring to read and it reeks of the same kind of thing that developed during Brawl's release that I was really hoping would not be retreaded again.

I entirely understand the frustration many people are experiencing right now with the unknowns resulting in unclear and sometimes conflicting information from various sources and I really wish like normal I had some more informative and with more clear insight to say like I normally like to do, but I seriously can't find anything to say here other then: People need to take a deep breath and calm down.

 

[Braggins]

Not stuck in the past... forgive my ignorance but considering that you ONLY play Melee from your Melee profile icon there with Falco, then yes, I am afraid you're stuck in the past.

I honestly wonder if this game will even survive in the competitive scene because people will have such a stigmata against it that it won't even have a chance. Likewise, by that time, the next Street Fighter, Kill Instinct, KoF, etc etc reign supreme.


And honestly, I feel like there's a sore, sore sense of entitlement. Reading that Facebook/Twitter post from that person who played at the Invitational did NOT help your image. To me, all it said was "Game's not Melee, sucks."

I play Project M more than Melee, but I love Melee and Project M have played 64 and Brawl a ton also. I am stuck in the past for playing a game that I enjoy because it isn't new? So the only way to not be stuck in the past is to just play whatever the new games are even if they are terrible in my opinion and I'm not going to get any enjoyment out of them? That is some absurd logic my friend. Being stuck in the past would be not playing the game only because it is new. I'm not going to play the game because it looks terrible and I'm probably not going to enjoy it at all. I'm not put off by the fact that it is new. Being new is literally the only thing this game has going for it as far as I can tell. And as far as this alleged since of entitlement goes, I want a game that all aspects of the community can enjoy, not just the competitive crowd. The people acting like it is a good thing that the game is only catered to the casual crowd and saying we should all just shut up and play it are the ones being selfish for wanting the game to only be for them. I think all the features and things they've added that are great and I'm glad you will all enjoy it but I don't think I'll enjoy the gameplay at all so it doesn't matter. Some of us are just tired of being ignored and I don't understand why this bothers some people so much.

 

[Zx2963]

- Question: balance
Answer: it gets very technical. Sakurai was responsible for the changes from N64 to Melee. He had to use a broader grading system with help from staff when working on Brawl. The process became tricky due to biases in the graders’ playing style. For the new games they have 12 graders, but there could still be balance anomalies. When creating a game, we cannot just appeal to traditional fanbases. We need to reach out to new gamers, and cater to many target users. Sakurai points out some chars are better suited for 2 vs 4 player and with or without items. Sakurai considers smash a party game.
From here: http://nintendoeverything.com/super-smash-bros-for-wii-u3ds-live-blog/

 

[Shroob]

I don't actually play Melee. I play Project M. I am stuck in the past for playing a game that I enjoy because it isn't new? So the only way to not be stuck in the past is to just play whatever the games are even if they are terrible in my opinion and I don't like them? That is some absurd logic my friend. Being stuck in the past would be not playing the game only because it is new. I'm not going to play the game because it looks terrible and I'm not going to enjoy it at all. I'm not put off by the fact that it is new. Being new is literally the only thing this game has going for it as far as I can tell. And as far as this alleged since of entitlement goes, I want a game that all aspects of the community can enjoy, not just the competitive crowd. The people acting like it is a good thing that the game is only catered to the casual crowd and saying we should all just shut up and play it are the ones being selfish for wanting the game to only be for them. I think all the features and things they've added that the casual crowd will love are great and I'm glad you will all enjoy it. Some of us are just tired of being left out and I don't understand why this bothers some of you so much.

And, does it not work both ways? You want it more competitive focused, so does that not make you selfish as well?

Let's be real here, no matter how hard they try, fighting games, at least the combo based ones, are not for casuals by design. Most are created for a hardcore audience who know the ins and outs of meter gain, contrived button presses and most likely own an arcade stick. The fact that Sakurai has created a hybrid of sorts has always intrigued me.


The fact is, there cannot be a game that 'all of the community' can enjoy. You either want a game that focuses much more on tech and less on being easily accessible, or you don't. I don't see a middle ground here frankly. You can say that Melee was 'easily accessible', but the majority of the playerbase probably didn't even know there was a competitive scene, nor about advanced techs. Those are strictly for the minority, the small handful of players who are into the competitive aspect.

 

[Str4y]

Hmm... I like this thread. Here are my thoughts. First, those who state a person doesn't know what a competitive game is comprised of, should try and be more clear. A competitive game is relative to the player, so saying something like that can cause an argument to arise. Second, I love all of the smash games. I have not had trouble with any of them. My point of view on smash is that because they are all different, I learned how to adapt. It was fun. I became familiar with different limitations and issues that caused me to grow as a player. I don't think brawl is better than melee and vice versa. I do think they came with their own challenges and that we as a community found a way to make each game special. I also think we can do the same with smash 4. I am willing to play it and buy it. We can make this work.

 

[Braggins]

And, does it not work both ways? You want it more competitive focused, so does that not make you selfish as well?

Let's be real here, no matter how hard they try, fighting games, at least the combo based ones, are not for casuals by design. Most are created for a hardcore audience who know the ins and outs of meter gain, contrived button presses and most likely own an arcade skin. The fact that Sakurai has created a hybrid of sorts has always intrigued me.


The fact is, there cannot be a game that 'all of the community' can enjoy. You either want a game that focuses much more on tech and less on being easily accessible, or you don't. I don't see a middle ground here frankly. You can say that Melee was 'easily accessible', but the majority of the playerbase probably didn't even know there was a competitive scene, nor about advanced techs. Those are strictly for the minority, the small handful of players who are into the competitive aspect.

I want a game we can all enjoy. You can balance the different aspects and satisfy everyone. Both communities loved smash64 and melee. The great thing about smash is that you actually can make smash enjoyable for casuals and competitive players because the base gameplay is very appealing to the casual crowd no matter what kind of depth or advanced techniques they add on top of it. They almost perfected this with melee and then Sakurai was just like "well, I don't like competitive gaming so lets just ignore those fans and do everything we can to make them not enjoy the game" and then the casual crowd defends him for screwing the competitive crowd even though the competitive community is what made smash the phenomenon that it is and the is the reason this website even exists.

 

[VictoriaYr]

I am of the mind that hating on this game is premature.
(Especially those who have only watched footage like me)...
Every single game footage (aside from grand finals), that I've seen, has been a timed free for all match with items on. Sakurai said multiple times that this is a demo, and not the final product. Even if there was a similar situation that happened in the past...
nobody can predict the future.

I would say... just play what you want. What really gets me is that people are upset at Sakurai. This man has put hours and hours of his time and energy to create this game. Now that does not mean it has to be good, or that you will enjoy it... but don't throw hatred onto the creator because he didn't make it a certain way. There is no way he hates any of you enough to do so. It is just that his vision is different from yours.

Unless you think games are purely a service for customers... Nintendo is not wrapping a sandwich here...
it is more like interactive art. Or crafting entertainment. As consumers, it is our duty to buy what we enjoy. Not criticize something for being the wrong flavor. If you want strawberry... you buy strawberry... but that has already been said...

Nintendo tried to make people happy. And I know some people are very happy. We will buy the game when it comes out, and then we'll continue playing what we want.

 

[Shroob]

I want a game we can all enjoy. You can balance the different aspects and satisfy everyone. Both communities loved smash64 and melee. The great thing about smash is that you actually can make smash enjoyable for casuals and competitive players because the base gameplay is very appealing to the casual crowd no matter what kind of depth or advanced techniques they add on top of it. They almost perfected this with melee and then Sakurai was just like "well, I don't like competitive gaming so lets just ignore those fans and do everything we can to make them not enjoy the game" and then the casual crowd defends him for screwing the competitive crowd even though the competitive community is what made smash the phenomenon that it is and the is the reason this website even exists.

If this website didn't exist, there'd be another, just saying. When you have a crossover fighting game with characters as popular as Nintendo's, you're going to have a success.

I just feel that the Melee crowd has already disowned this game without even giving the final game a shot, and let's face it, you have. And... I hate to say it, but... no one is forcing you to play it. You can go back to Melee/Project M.

 

[aldelaro5]

I just want to say this even tough I know absolutely NOTHING about the competitive scene and gameplay.

This might shocks some people but I think that the DDOS several months ago was beneficial for me and my activity on this forum. Why? Because right before it happened, I decided to take a break from this forum because I saw too much negativity regarding the new game (and again, I think it was a minority but it annoyed me way too much). Don't get me wrong you have the right to express your opinion but it just seems like people overshadows the positive by their negative points. Personally, the best way to make an accurate opinion is to consider both sides evenly and then decide what weights more than others according to how you see the topic. Here, it sounds like people focused too much on negative things than checking both sides (which made me think if they were aware of the positive).

For some odd reasons, the DDOS was like a "needed break" to cool down because right after the DDOS, I saw practically almost no such negativity. It seems like they forgot about that and started to consider that it;s not THAT bad (as they were telling at least). So, that's how I ended my hiatus.

I'm telling this story because the story seems to repeat itself and I don't want that a big DDOS happens again to fix this. You should just cool down (maybe even take a break yourself) but I don't think that the game is THAT bad. I can understand the brawl period being rough (I didn't live it) but this should be a new period which means that it won't necessary be the exact same thing. Then again, I know for a fact that melee vs brawl debates are hated by the mods because they turn into flame wars but instead of just bashing this new game or previous games, why not just do what you love?

My 2 cent, again, I'm inexperienced on the competitive way of playing and the prior division but I just think that this has to be said. Just calm down that's what I want.

 

[GamerGuy09]

For the people that keep saying, "It is in BETA, they will fix it!" You need to get a grasp that Sakurai dislikes the advanced techniques of Smash. Such as Wave-Dashing, L-Canceling, and now Edge Hogging. Sakurai doesn't like that and do not expect him to bring back any of those things.

In exchange for that, Sakurai gave us slightly better rolling, Gamecube Controller support, and long enough hitstun for Combos.

Sakurai wants Smash to be an EASY game to play, and that you don't need much knowledge and know-how to play. That is a true fact that he said at the roundtable:

"We cannot completely dedicate the game to Smash fans, we need to make a game that is accessible. I see it as a party game."

That is what Sakurai said, and no amount of Beta testing is going to change his mind.

Sakurai wants the idea of "You Must Recover" and he doesn't like that the enemy can just take the ledge from you.

I'm personally fine with this, as I like the idea of a more bare bones Smash.

 

[Braggins]

If this website didn't exist, there'd be another, just saying. When you have a crossover fighting game with characters as popular as Nintendo's, you're going to have a success.

I just feel that the Melee crowd has already disowned this game without even giving the final game a shot, and let's face it, you have. And... I hate to say it, but... no one is forcing you to play it. You can go back to Melee/Project M.

I've pretty much disowned it because the huge problems with the gameplay are already evident and the aspects people didn't like about Brawl are still there. I watched the invitational and based on what I saw I literally could not be less interested in playing the game. It looked dreadfully boring and I saw all the same problems as with Brawl and many more new ones after seeing such a small amount of gameplay. I will gladly continue playing Project M and I don't even care that the new game is likely going to be terrible for what I want out of it because Project M is basically everything I wanted in a Melee sequel. It just gets annoying when I try to come here to give my feedback and the only response I get is "shut up and go play melee" or "stop complaining and just be happy there is a new smash game"... Also, even though the game isn't technically finalized the gameplay isn't likely to change much at all for release. The 3DS version comes out in few months or something like that so the game is nearly finalized. Most changes will be cosmetic or bug fixes. People tried to say the same thing about Brawl when people complained about the demo version and the only gameplay changes they made by the time it was released actually made it worse.

 

[Shroob]

I've pretty much disowned it because the huge problems with the gameplay are already evident and the aspects people didn't like about Brawl are still there. I watched the invitational and based on what I saw I literally could not be less interested in playing the game. It looked dreadfully boring and I saw all the same problems as with Brawl and many more new ones after seeing such a small amount of gameplay. I will gladly continue playing Project M and I don't even care that the new game is likely going to be terrible for what I want out of it because Project M is basically everything I wanted in a Melee sequel. It just gets annoying when I try to come here to give my feedback and the only response I get is "shut up and go play melee" or "stop complaining and just be happy there is a new smash game"... Also, even though the game isn't technically finalized the gameplay isn't likely to change much at all for release. The 3DS version comes out in few months or something like that so the game is nearly finalized. Most changes will be cosmetic or bug fixes. People tried to say the same thing about Brawl when people complained about the demo version and the only gameplay changes they made by the time it was released actually made it worse.

I think the issue is you're posting your complaints in a time where everyone and their mother is doing it, and frankly, the people who are actually excited for the game, the majority, is tired of hearing the people complaining, the minority. If you had perhaps waited some time until things calmed down, but you literally picked the worst time.

This is a time of excitement and hype, they don't want people raining on their parade and bogging it down with negative Nancy comments.


History is repeating itself, sadly. The time between Melee and Brawl was the EXACT same issues.

 

[Sandfall]

The game is still in development. Everyone is overreacting. An excellent post in /r/smashbros highlights this:
http://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/27xlt8/im_both_a_melee_veteran_and_a_game_designer_im/

 

[Braggins]

I think the issue is you're posting your complaints in a time where everyone and their mother is doing it, and frankly, the people who are actually excited for the game, the majority, is tired of hearing the people complaining, the minority. If you had perhaps waited some time until things calmed down, but you literally picked the worst time.

This is a time of excitement and hype, they don't want people raining on their parade and bogging it down with negative Nancy comments.


History is repeating itself, sadly. The time between Melee and Brawl was the EXACT same issues.

If you don't want a large portion of the community to hate the game and bash it thus raining on your parade then you should want Sakurai to make a game that doesn't alienate a large portion of the community so we can all enjoy it. We are all part of the community and the direction they have taken the series that has divided the community is the problem. The problem isn't that there are people who enjoy the competitive aspects of smash and are voicing their displeasure with being so blatantly ignored. If the game was a lot faster and had some depth, advanced techniques, or really anything to make the competitive community enjoy it then there wouldn't be all this negativity and arguing and the casual crowd would still enjoy the game just as much if not more.

 

[Shroob]

If you don't want a large portion of the community to hate the game and bash it thus raining on your parade then you should want Sakurai to make a game that doesn't alienate a large portion of the community so we can all enjoy it. We are all part of the community and the direction they have taken the series that has divided the community is the problem. The problem isn't that there are people who enjoy the competitive aspects of smash and are voicing their displeasure with being so blatantly ignored. If the game was a lot faster and had some depth, advanced techniques, or really anything to make the competitive community enjoy it then there wouldn't be all this negativity and arguing and the casual crowd would still enjoy the game just as much.

And complaining about it on a forum not affiliated with Nintendo helps....how?

 

[CommanderRin]

*Just joins SmashBoards before E3*


*Already crying at all the community wars and negativity*

 

[Braggins]

And complaining about it on a forum not affiliated with Nintendo helps....how?

It doesn't. There is nothing any of us can do to help this situation because Sakurai is so set in his views on Smash and will have no part of any ideas outside of what he wants for the game. I was just trying to make the point that we should really all be on the same side of this.

The entire point of this forum is to discuss smash and so obviously people are going to give their feedback on the games on here. Pretty much nothing discussed on here really helps anything or has any point. It is just what we like to do because we all like Smash.

 

[SpeedBoost]

There will never be a Melee 2.0 or a Brawl 2.0.

Plain and ****ing simple.

 

[Shroob]

It doesn't. There is nothing any of us can do to help this situation because Sakurai is so set in his views on Smash and will have no part of any ideas outside of what he wants for the game. I was just trying to make the point that we should really all be on the same side of this.

The entire point of this forum is to discuss smash and so obviously people are going to give their feedback on the games on here. Pretty much nothing discussed on here really helps anything or has any point. It is just what we like to do because we all like Smash.

But is this really helping at all? Look above you. A brand new member, already being subjected to this. This is not healthy to the community. NO ONE should have to deal with what happened during the Melee to Brawl days. No one.

 

[GamerGuy09]

The game is still in development. Everyone is overreacting. An excellent post in /r/smashbros highlights this:
http://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/27xlt8/im_both_a_melee_veteran_and_a_game_designer_im/

You are only building yourself up for more disappointment if you are thinking that they are going to add stuff like Wavedashing or L-Canceling, or other more complex strats.

Sakurai hates that Melee is so complex, he wants Smash to be simple, but make it a bit competitive for the old fans. So he made hitstun longer and buffed rolling.

I would be honestly surprised if he does anything else.

 

[SpeedBoost]

But is this really helping at all? Look above you. A brand new member, already being subjected to this. This is not healthy to the community. NO ONE should have to deal with what happened during the Melee to Brawl days. No one.

I would elect you to be President of the Smash community. Tbh

 

[Str4y]

Speed boost you have made day. Thank you.