Event - E3 Invitational 2014 Addressing the Smash 4 hate

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Sandfall

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You are only building yourself up for more disappointment if you are thinking that they are going to add stuff like Wavedashing or L-Canceling, or other more complex strats.

Sakurai hates that Melee is so complex, he wants Smash to be simple, but make it a bit competitive for the old fans. So he made hitstun longer and buffed rolling.

I would be honestly surprised if he does anything else.
Wavedashing? L-Canceling? Really? Did anyone ever believe those were returning? You didn't even look at the link I posted. Try again.
 

SpeedBoost

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Speed boost you have made day. Thank you.
No problem, just trying to be real with the community. Tired of all the ******** going around both ends. Smash 4 will be a mix of Brawl and Melee according to Sakurai and it seems to be just that. It is not a Brawl 2.0 nor Melee 2.0. This will be a game both communities even the 64 community will enjoy. At least I hope. Be happy there even is a smash sequel, franchises like MVC will not be blessed like we are.
 

Str4y

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No problem, just trying to be real with the community. Tired of all the *****ing going around both ends. Smash 4 will be a mix of Brawl and Melee according to Sakurai and it seems to be just that. It is not a Brawl 2.0 nor Melee 2.0. This will be a game both communities even the 64 community will enjoy. At least I hope. Be happy there even is a smash sequel, franchises like MVC will not be blessed like we are.
Amen.
 

Mr.-0

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I don't think there is anything wrong with being disappointed: some people wanted the game to be a little more like melee, or just more competitive/technical in general, and some people wanted it to be more casual. Some people liked what they see, some people didn't, and some people have hope it will change. And while the voicing of your excitement for the game or your disapproval of the game is absolutely fine, unpleasantness, hate, and argumentative behavior is not. These things do nothing but stoke the flames. This thread, even, contributes a little to that. I think the most important thing is to remember that all people are entitled to all of their opinions, wants, and desires, and in a conflict of these things, civil behavior is ideal, for both sides.

Calm down the hate, but at the same time, bashing on the people who don't like it should be toned down as well.
 

Braggins

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But is this really helping at all? Look above you. A brand new member, already being subjected to this. This is not healthy to the community. NO ONE should have to deal with what happened during the Melee to Brawl days. No one.
Maybe it doesn't help to subject new members to this, but who is at fault for this happening? That is my point. They easily could have made a smash for everyone and this wouldn't be happening. The same thing can be said for Brawl. Is the competitive community supposed to not have opinions or not express them if they are negative so that we don't have to subject new players to the controversy that Nintendo (or at least Sakurai) creates by intentionally making a game in such a way that a large portion of the community is going to hate it?
 

GamerGuy09

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Wavedashing? L-Canceling? Really? Did anyone ever believe those were returning? You didn't even look at the link I posted. Try again.
Yes. I have seen at least 30 fans say that they will probably patch that stuff in because it is in BETA and feedback is important. It is silly really that they would believe that.
 

Braggins

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No problem, just trying to be real with the community. Tired of all the *****ing going around both ends. Smash 4 will be a mix of Brawl and Melee according to Sakurai and it seems to be just that. It is not a Brawl 2.0 nor Melee 2.0. This will be a game both communities even the 64 community will enjoy. At least I hope. Be happy there even is a smash sequel, franchises like MVC will not be blessed like we are.
This is all false. There is virtually nothing of melee in Smash 4 other than the basic fact that it is a smash game and has smash style moves in it. The melee community is absolutely not going to enjoy this the same way they didn't enjoy Brawl. I'm not going to be happy or thankful for a game that I am not going to enjoy and thus not play.
 

Defile

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People should try the game before ripping on it. I got to play it for a few minutes yesterday, and it seemed more like Brawl than Melee, but was definitely faster than Brawl. Just because it's not Melee 2.0 doesn't mean its bad.
 

Shroob

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Maybe it doesn't help to subject new members to this, but who is at fault for this happening? That is my point. They easily could have made a smash for everyone and this wouldn't be happening. The same thing can be said for Brawl. Is the competitive community supposed to not have opinions or not express them if they are negative so that we don't have to subject new players to the controversy that Nintendo (or at least Sakurai) creates by intentionally making a game in such a way that a large portion of the community is going to hate it?
You realize that stringing it along instead of dropping it isn't helping the situation, right?

Also, large. That is subjective. Brawl sold close to 12 million copies. Do you really think the majority of those millions were competitive players?


tl;dr: You're being overdramatic, bud. I can't help but read your post in a 'doom and gloom' voice.
 

Weeman

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For the past few days, I have read through a majority of threads regarding some hate for the newest installment of Super Smash Bros. and even participated in them. This post was created to get some insight, discuss calmly and professionally, and share my beliefs on how this new Smash should be handled.

First, I'd like to note that Smash 4 is still in development and has not been completed. Nintendo has made available a [possibly glitchy] demo version of the game months before its release. There is still room for development, but hopes that it will include any input regarding Melee's physics should not be too high. Some have made the suggestion that the type of air dodging you are able to do should be a part of the character customization options, which would allow the use of wavedashing. However, it is possible that customized character sets may not be used in tournaments.

Cutting to the chase now. For those complaining about Sakurai, he is listening to his fans and the Smash community. By Smash community, I do not mean just the Melee community, this includes the entire Smash Bros. community. Not all players are for unity and it's a shame to see that some players from either community will bash each other over games. Smash 4 is made to be fun for all audiences which include both casuals and competitors. By now we should understand that Brawl was made with the intention of slashing competition by making the gameplay significantly slower than BOTH its predecessors and adding major inconveniences. However, people are still able to play Brawl competitively. To those claiming that Smash 4 will simply become Brawl 2.0, there is no valid claim that can confirm this as the game is still under development. Sakurai and his team have considered that the game should be both competitive and fun. The Smash Bros. Invitational allowed the players to give their own suggestions for the game and simply have fun.

The Melee community has been heard, but despite the Melee community being one of the largest between 64, Brawl and PM's, they are not entitled to their Advanced Techs of the past. Again, the Melee community is STILL lumped in with the rest of the Smash community. Nintendo has already developed a way for players who are quite familiar with the GCN controller to be used on a Wii U, let's not get greedy here. It is unfair to criticize Sakurai because he didn't give us another Melee and that the Invitational Smash tournament was meant to be a fun display of a not game, not the high-intensity Melee tourneys that the community loves. Before people were complaining about Post-EVO/Documentary Melee players, now people are collectively bashing a new Smash Bros. I am honestly surprised people aren't telling Post-EVO players to go play Smash 4 and leave the Melee community alone. Where did all of this hate come from?

Here's my opinion of this whole ordeal:

Smash 4 is a faster paced game than Brawl from what I have seen, and while it does not include wavedashing and other techniques we're used to seeing in Melee/PM, there is room for new techs. I still believe it is a bit floaty, but the hits are real. The momentum of attacks seem to be greater than Brawl's, though not as much hitstun as 64. Surely, we will find ways to take advantage of the field since the ground game is faster than Brawl's was. I believe Smash 4 is a swing in the right direction, one that Sakurai wanted to begin with. Melee had plenty of exploits, some of which we call "Advanced Techniques", and was too fast/heavy. It was also unbalanced, which is what the developers of PM wanted to do using all that Brawl had to offer. However, people still complain about balancing and characters in PM. As a former competitor in the Street Fighter and Melty Blood scene, I can honestly say that this will be a problem for any fighting game.

Let's just try something new. This is not going to be another Brawl, this will be the Smash that Sakurai was hoping for. If you are an avid Melee player and still stand by your beliefs, please don't unfairly complain about Sakurai or say things that will ruin the game for others who want to compete in Smash 4. The simplest solution that will put an end to all the flame wars is to continue showing your love and support for Melee (and Project M for those who enjoy that, too.) From what I've read, Project M for Smash 4 is a very, very slim possibility. Nintendo will continue to step forward with Smash Bros. and more than likely not look to recreate Melee, so there is no point in pestering the PM dev-team due to failure to adapt to new games and mechanics.

tl;dr: Let's stop the hate and flame wars, and start talking professionally about the game we've all come to love: Super Smash Bros. I love Melee, loved it since I first got it on Christmas 2001 and I still play both forms of Melee with so much intensity. I admit that I have complained to the same degree about Brawl years ago when it came out, but have since developed a new perspective. To the community members who support your own favorite game, give it all you've got for the game you love and leave Sakurai alone. He [Sakurai] was the one who developed and delivered your favorite version of Super Smash Brothers. Remember that.
Thank you, seriously, i have been rather sad after seeing the amount of hate for the game in these threads; But reading this has reminded me of the many reasons why i love smash, and no matter what the outcome, this will be a game full of love and quality, so sincerely, thank you.
 

Phan7om

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Tbh, all this hate is going to be related to how this community dies as a whole.
 

Scicky

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It doesn't. There is nothing any of us can do to help this situation because Sakurai is so set in his views on Smash and will have no part of any ideas outside of what he wants for the game. I was just trying to make the point that we should really all be on the same side of this.

The entire point of this forum is to discuss smash and so obviously people are going to give their feedback on the games on here. Pretty much nothing discussed on here really helps anything or has any point. It is just what we like to do because we all like Smash.
Respectfully disagree. I don't think, from what we saw at the invitational, that we have enough information to say that the game isn't worthy of being a competitive game. We've only seen a single 1v1 match, and though I'm sure hungrybox is a better player than I am, I still feel like he had more oportunity's to play aggressively than we saw. Not to mention we don't really know how that matchup will play out in the long run. I played today and I saw combos even in FFA, the game is nowhere near as floaty as brawl, and people were excited to watch. That's really all I need for now.

If the game comes out and winds up uninteresting, then it would be wise for us to voice dissent. Otherwise, I would reserve judgment. It's a step up from Brawl, if it's still not enough for the community, the next game will hopefully be another step up. We're on the right track regardless of whether or not we've reached our final destination.
 
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Braggins

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You realize that stringing it along instead of dropping it isn't helping the situation, right?

Also, large. That is subjective. Brawl sold close to 12 million copies. Do you really think the majority of those millions were competitive players?


tl;dr: You're being overdramatic, bud. I can't help but read your post in a 'doom and gloom' voice.
We certainly aren't the majority as far as pure numbers go but we are a substantial portion and as far as contribution to the games and the community go the competitive community is a much bigger factor than the casual community. That is what is so frustrating about this. There is a large group of avid fans of this series that do more than anyone to advance the game, contribute to the community, keep the game alive and thriving, and even basically do free advertising for the games and Sakurai continually just spits in our faces and then the rest of the community acts like we are the problem and tells us to shut up. A very large majority of the copies sold of Brawl probably were bought by more casual gamers, but if you were to somehow count all of the matches of brawl that have been played since it was released the number of matches played would be skewed much more towards the competitive players. It just doesn't make much sense to me or a lot of people to cater a game completely to people who mostly are going to play it for a short amount of time and forget about it rather than the people who will continue to play and support the game for years if it is good.
 
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Warp Star Lover

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First off, I don't believe for a second that what we've seen is the 100% final product. Less than half of the characters were present. Just a few stages were used. Balance is probably close, but not yet locked. I wouldn't be surprised if the 3DS version got delayed because of having to carefully patch this demo together with wax and string.

And second, I liked what I saw! Shocking, eh? ;)

I'm not a competitive player. But I do have around 300 hours of Melee under my belt, which is one of my favorite games of all time. I have not played Brawl, and I refuse to play Brawl, just from how it looks. Brown, cluttered, floaty, slow. The hardcore fans tend to agree with me, as they did when I refused to play Perfect Dark Zero, the follow-up to my second-favorite game ever. In other words, I have a bit of a track record when it comes to spotting quality/a lack thereof.

Smash 4 is not Melee, which I thought was tight, but a bit mechanical. It's not Brawl either, which appears to be loose/messy/chaotic/insert adjective for not nearly as refined. If you ask me, Smash 4 is right smack dab in the middle. Take Brawl, smooth off the rough edges, move the physics a little towards Melee's, give it a more even collection of fighters/items + a more standout coat of paint as well as improved nostalgia, and there's Smash 4.

IMO, the haters are stereotypical reactionary ultra-hardcore gamers that want to play the same game again and again, treating every new entry in the franchise like a s*** stain on the bedsheets of The Anointed One.

In any case, if I'm wrong, I can play *Halo 1 on Xbox Live* instead! :love:
 

Braggins

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Respectfully disagree. I don't think, from what we saw at the invitational, that we have enough information to say that the game isn't worthy of being a competitive game. We've only seen a single 1v1 match, and though I'm sure hungrybox is a better player than I am, I still feel like he had more oportunity's to play aggressively than we saw. Not to mention we don't really know how that matchup will play out in the long run. I played today and I saw combos even in FFA, the game is nowhere near as floaty as brawl, and people were excited to watch. That's really all I need for now.

If the game comes out and winds up uninteresting, then it would be wise for us to voice dissent. Otherwise, I would reserve judgment. It's a step up from Brawl, if it's still not enough for the community, the next game will hopefully be another step up. We're on the right track regardless of whether or not we've reached our final destination.
It isn't going to really do anything to voice dissent after you've bought the game. At that point Nintendo already has your $60 and that is all that matters. The fact that so many people will continue to buy these games no matter how bad they are is why they will never get any better and will continue go even more towards the casual side of things. Look at all the hate and dissent Brawl had. None of that had much effect on their design for Smash 4. It is a tricky situation and I can't really say that no one should buy or try the game to prove a point to Nintendo because clearly people are going to want to try it and will end up buying it and even enjoying it. However, there are already tons of major problems or things I don't like evident after just seeing the invitational so I am absolutely not giving them my money for this.
 
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Phan7om

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Whats sad is that alot of people want this game to suck. Even if they did add wavedashing, lcancel, etc. people would still find something un-Melee like to bash on and say that the game is for casuals, and is unviable for tournaments... and on and on and on.
 
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SpeedBoost

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This is all false. There is virtually nothing of melee in Smash 4 other than the basic fact that it is a smash game and has smash style moves in it. The melee community is absolutely not going to enjoy this the same way they didn't enjoy Brawl. I'm not going to be happy or thankful for a game that I am not going to enjoy and thus not play.
Well thats sad to be honest. I don't think anyone will be able to sway you and I am not gonna even try. You can sit in the dark and not enjoy another Smash Sequel with a so far Amazing Cast of characters.

We will be waiting for you and you are always welcome to join us.
 
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Hokori

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On a lighter note, the hype in Smash 4 matches would last forever if games were Megaman (The Super Fighting Robot) only, Smash Ball on High, fighting on Wily Castle to save the world with D1 commentating screaming "MEGAMANNNNNN!" :troll:

Really though, I'm guessing this subject will be the discussion in several threads for the next few days huh?
 

Braggins

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Whats sad is that alot of people want this game to suck. Even if they did add wavedashing, lcancel, etc. people would still find something un-Melee like to bash on and say that the game is for casuals, and is unviable for tournaments... and on and on and on.
This makes no sense. Why would people not want another good game in a series they love? What is sad is that so many people refuse to see the other side of things and think people with valid criticism are complaining just to complain. Peoples complaints have very little to do with wavedashing and l-cancelling and are more about the general competitive value of the game. It is possible for the game to suck even if there was wavedashing and l-cancelling. Those things really aren't what this is about. We just wanted Nintendo to at least throw us a bone and so far it just doesn't appear to be the case at all.
 

Phan7om

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This makes no sense. Why would people not want another good game in a series they love? What is sad is that so many people refuse to see the other side of things and think people with valid criticism are complaining just to complain. Peoples complaints have very little to do with wavedashing and l-cancelling and are more about the general competitive value of the game. It is possible for the game to suck even if there was wavedashing and l-cancelling. Those things really aren't what this is about. We just wanted Nintendo to at least throw us a bone and so far it just doesn't appear to be the case at all.
Well you are probably just one of the more logical ones. I totally agree with you, It makes no sense, thats why I facepalm trying to understand a lot of people's logic on what makes Smash 4 suck. Ive seen hundreds of people complain about just those things.
 
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Braggins

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Well thats sad to be honest. I don't think anyone will be able to sway you and I am not gonna even try. You can sit in the dark and not enjoy another Smash Sequel with a so far Amazing Cast of characters.

We will be waiting for you and you are always welcome to join us.
What is sad? That I don't think I will like the game? Is it sad that I enjoy different things in games than you do? The only thing that will sway me is the game having something about it that will make it enjoyable to me. At this point I see nothing that gives me any hope that this will be the case and I see many apparent things about the game that I don't like. Is it sad for me to give my feedback and opinions on the game? I'm not going to be sitting in the dark alone not enjoying things like you would like to characterize the people who don't like the same things you do and aren't going to like this game. I will be having tons of fun playing different games that I actually enjoy.
 
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Zoltan720

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Successful fighting games to date have stuck to a basic principal. "Don't fix it if it's not broken." Mortal Kombat, Street Fighter, Marvel vs Capcom... etc. They all stick to the same idea. Build a solid fighting game that is deep and rewarding, and then build on that success. Smash 64 and Melee followed this rule. Melee really is just an extension of the mechanics in 64. Brawl... was not. Whatever brilliant people Sakurai had that worked on the first two games, are not working there anymore. A larger point to make is that Nintendo has sold a fraction of the wiiu systems it had hoped for. The company is facing ridiculous quarterly losses that without the 3ds, would already be looking for a buyout. So ask yourself this... If Microsoft or Playstation bought the rights to the Nintendo franchise, would they stand idly by and watch smash 4 get torn apart by our culture? I don't think so. I'm pretty sure either one would immediately do an "HD makeover" of both the games. They might even pay the developers who worked on Project M their dues to release a new game version. Look at all of the other successful fighting game franchises. We see new editions, or revised editions all the time. Smash 4 should be no different. I say if the game isn't exactly what your looking for, then don't buy it. The only way this problem will get fixed is if there is culpability. At this point, there is no accountability for the mistakes that Nintendo has and is making. They constantly rely on their core "fan boy" audience to buy their mediocre games. So don't do it.

All of this attention hopefully will make the next smash a better game. If I wanted a game that was just for fun and had no competitive aspects, I would own a leapfrog.

"The tragedy of life is often not in our failure, but rather in our complacency; not in our doing too much, but rather in our doing too little; not in our living above our ability, but rather in our living below our capacities."
 

Jumpman84

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It's sad to think that some people have forgotten that games are meant to be FUN. This whole "serious business" attitude is one of the things that kept me away from this board for so long... Granted, I thought everyone here was all "No Items, Fox Only, Final Destination" competitive types. I came on eventually for E32013 hype and I noticed that, with the exception of a few people, everyone here is a Smash fan, one way or another. Imagine my shock and disappointment to find people complaining about what may very well be the greatest video game in the history of mankind.

Well, after an excruciating 4 and a half hour wait at Best Buy, I played this game. It is awesome and I plan on scooping up both versions on their respective Day 1s, displaying them proudly next to my copies of Brawl and Melee, as well as next to my Wii U, with its Virtual Console copy of Smash 64. And no amount of naysayers will ever change that.
 

Braggins

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Well you are probably just one of the more logical ones. It makes no sense, thats why I facepalm trying to understand a lot of people's logic on what makes Smash 4 suck. Ive seen hundreds of people complain about just those things.
I never expected those specific techs to be in Smash 4. There are people who complain just to complain and a lot of the people who complain about wavedashing and l-cancelling would eventually come around if there were other things to make the game enjoyable for them (like not being slow as balls and the physics allowing for a deep and rewarding combo game). People who complain about those specific things do so because they are proven elements that add depth and an aspect that they know they will enjoy. I can see why people are put off by them because they are being close minded in a way, but at the same time they are just wanting things that they know they will like. It doesn't add anything to the conversation though, which is why people get annoyed with them.
 

Braggins

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Successful fighting games to date have stuck to a basic principal. "Don't fix it if it's not broken." Mortal Kombat, Street Fighter, Marvel vs Capcom... etc. They all stick to the same idea. Build a solid fighting game that is deep and rewarding, and then build on that success. Smash 64 and Melee followed this rule. Melee really is just an extension of the mechanics in 64. Brawl... was not. Whatever brilliant people Sakurai had that worked on the first two games, are not working there anymore. A larger point to make is that Nintendo has sold a fraction of the wiiu systems it had hoped for. The company is facing ridiculous quarterly losses that without the 3ds, would already be looking for a buyout. So ask yourself this... If Microsoft or Playstation bought the rights to the Nintendo franchise, would they stand idly by and watch smash 4 get torn apart by our culture? I don't think so. I'm pretty sure either one would immediately do an "HD makeover" of both the games. They might even pay the developers who worked on Project M their dues to release a new game version. Look at all of the other successful fighting game franchises. We see new editions, or revised editions all the time. Smash 4 should be no different. I say if the game isn't exactly what your looking for, then don't buy it. The only way this problem will get fixed is if there is culpability. At this point, there is no accountability for the mistakes that Nintendo has and is making. They constantly rely on their core "fan boy" audience to buy their mediocre games. So don't do it.

All of this attention hopefully will make the next smash a better game. If I wanted a game that was just for fun and had no competitive aspects, I would own a leapfrog.

"The tragedy of life is often not in our failure, but rather in our complacency; not in our doing too much, but rather in our doing too little; not in our living above our ability, but rather in our living below our capacities."
Wow, if someone like Microsoft payed the Project M developers to release and actual game version that would be absolutely incredible.
 

Sandfall

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What is sad? That I don't think I will like the game? Is it sad that I enjoy different things in games than you do? The only thing that will sway me is the game having something about it that will make it enjoyable to me. At this point I see nothing that gives me any hope that this will be the case and I see many apparent things about the game that I don't like. Is it sad for me to give my feedback and opinions on the game? I'm not going to be sitting in the dark alone not enjoying things like you would like to characterize the people who don't like the same things you do and aren't going to like this game. I will be having tons of fun playing different games that I actually enjoy, namely this other smash sequel known as Project M.
The reason people think it's sad is that you seem to have lost sight of what probably brought most of us to the game in the first place. Nobody started playing the game because it was competitive, they played it because it was simply fun to pick their favorite characters and beat the tar out of their friends/siblings in a game that was completely unique and accessible.
 

JaidynReiman

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I honestly don't get the problem. Why can't simplicity be competitive?
 

Braggins

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It's sad to think that some people have forgotten that games are meant to be FUN. This whole "serious business" attitude is one of the things that kept me away from this board for so long... Granted, I thought everyone here was all "No Items, Fox Only, Final Destination" competitive types. I came on eventually for E32013 hype and I noticed that, with the exception of a few people, everyone here is a Smash fan, one way or another. Imagine my shock and disappointment to find people complaining about what may very well be the greatest video game in the history of mankind.

Well, after an excruciating 4 and a half hour wait at Best Buy, I played this game. It is awesome and I plan on scooping up both versions on their respective Day 1s, displaying them proudly next to my copies of Brawl and Melee, as well as next to my Wii U, with its Virtual Console copy of Smash 64. And no amount of naysayers will ever change that.
Some people just enjoy different things and have a different idea of fun. I am more interested in the competitive aspects of the games and there is no video game experience that is more fun or exciting to me than playing an intense competitive game of Project M or Melee. Just because some people take the game more serious doesn't mean their goal isn't to have fun.
 
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Sandfall

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Wow, if someone like Microsoft payed the Project M developers to release and actual game version that would be absolutely incredible.
It's comments like this that will get Project M shut down. As someone who wants that game to continue to develop, please, just don't make them. It's fine if you don't like Smash 4, but stating in a public forum that you'll play that instead of Smash 4 gives Nintendo all the more reason to pull the plug.
 

Phan7om

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I honestly don't get the problem. Why can't simplicity be competitive?
Amen... this is the main part of my frustration and confusion. Apparently, if its not like Melee, its trash to them.
 
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dada5714

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I'm sure it's been said already, but it seems like people are forgetting Melee's metagame was developed over several years, while we've played Smash 4 for a total of a day. Let's stop jumping to conclusions and wait before sounding like the same exact people the person who's making the game hates.
 
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Braggins

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The reason people think it's sad is that you seem to have lost sight of what probably brought most of us to the game in the first place. Nobody started playing the game because it was competitive, they played it because it was simply fun to pick their favorite characters and beat the tar out of their friends/siblings in a game that was completely unique and accessible.
We were all brought to the games because they are fun. This is true. However, there are many different aspects of the games that are fun to people. I probably find a game like Melee to be fun for very different reasons than you but that doesn't mean that either aspect that causes enjoyment is wrong or more important than the other. Just because I like the game more strictly for the fighting game or competitive aspect doesn't mean that I don't like it because it is fun or that I am sad and missing the point of the game because I enjoy it for different reasons. I just have a different taste for what is fun. This is a very common misconception about the competitive community. Trust me, I have so much fun when I play Project M or Melee. I've literally been playing melee for like seven years.
 

Phan7om

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I'm sure it's been said already, but it seems like people are forgetting Melee's metagame was developed over several years, while we've play Smash 4 for a total of a day. Let's stop jumping to conclusions and wait before sounding like the same exact people the person who's making the game hates.
Yes. 1000x YESZ!
 

Lanog20

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The Smash 4 haters have already caused me to cringe way too much today. I need a break from all this ignorant negativity.
 
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I don't think there is anything wrong with being disappointed: some people wanted the game to be a little more like melee, or just more competitive/technical in general, and some people wanted it to be more casual. Some people liked what they see, some people didn't, and some people have hope it will change. And while the voicing of your excitement for the game or your disapproval of the game is absolutely fine, unpleasantness, hate, and argumentative behavior is not. These things do nothing but stoke the flames. This thread, even, contributes a little to that. I think the most important thing is to remember that all people are entitled to all of their opinions, wants, and desires, and in a conflict of these things, civil behavior is ideal, for both sides.

Calm down the hate, but at the same time, bashing on the people who don't like it should be toned down as well.
I think there's more to it than that.

I think Brawl's eventual fate is a shining example of how potent the competitive community's "finest" (the ones who's opinions are not to be valued) despite how small in number you rationalize them, are capable of dragging down the dignity and long term performance of the game purely off of their whinces over it "not being like melee".

Many see Smash 4 as the epitomized version of Smash Bros and the last thing we want to see is that small but competitively influential minority of loud mouths ruin the game we're excited over with nothing but videos and emotions to back up their point.

Sure, everyone's entitled to their opinion, but the melee elitists have shown that there's is destructive.
 

Braggins

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It's comments like this that will get Project M shut down. As someone who wants that game to continue to develop, please, just don't make them. It's fine if you don't like Smash 4, but stating in a public forum that you'll play that instead of Smash 4 gives Nintendo all the more reason to pull the plug.
The situation that I was referring to was a scenario brought up in the post I quoted where some other developer bought the rights to the smash series. My comment (or probably any comment on smashboards for that matter) isn't going to have any effect on whether or not Project M gets shut down because someone else paying the Project M developers to release a game version wouldn't even be possible without the consent of Nintendo or if Nintendo sold the rights to someone else, at which point it would have no relevance to them. I'm sure Nintendo has to know that there are people who would much rather play Project M than Smash 4 anyways. Even if Project M didn't exist I still wouldn't play Smash 4. I would just continue to play Melee. I understand your concern though. I really would hate for Nintendo to shut down Project M. I would literally never support anything they did ever again if that happened.
 

Phan7om

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Im gonna try to help people understand my frustration with a little bit of explanation.

So apparently, Smash 4 "sucks" because it seems slower than Melee.
-This is true, they have told us this a long time ago.

Another big reason is that a lot of complex movement options and combos make the game more enjoyable.
-Yes, I totally agree... but you cant jump to conclusions and say "Oh its not preformed exactly the way it was in Melee, so its not there". What if there is a way to essentially wavedash, l-cancel, dashdance, etc. but is different and isnt exploitable right now because its DAY 1.

I also have a question. What if after 10 years of Smash 4s metagame evolving, we find out that this is actually the most technically demanding smash and is more competitive than Melee... would you guys like it, or still hate it because its not Melee?
 

Braggins

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I think there's more to it than that.

I think Brawl's eventual fate is a shining example of how potent the competitive community's "finest" (the ones who's opinions are not to be valued) despite how small in number you rationalize them, are capable of dragging down the dignity and long term performance of the game purely off of their whinces over it "not being like melee".

Many see Smash 4 as the epitomized version of Smash Bros and the last thing we want to see is that small but competitively influential minority of loud mouths ruin the game we're excited over with nothing but videos and emotions to back up their point.

Sure, everyone's entitled to their opinion, but the melee elitists have shown that there's is destructive.
Seriously people, stop pretending that people didn't like Brawl and won't like Smash 4 just because it isn't Melee. That just shows how obviously you just don't get it... People who like Melee don't only play Melee and no other games because they think everything should just be Melee. There are plenty of ways to make a game enjoyable for that portion of the community and just because Brawl wasn't and Smash 4 likely won't be one of those games doesn't mean people are just stubborn and want everything to be just like Melee. Some people just don't enjoy extremely slow, defensive, and shallow fighting games. Brawl's fate had nothing to do with people being stubborn and had everything to do with the fact that it was a game that an important segment of the community couldn't enjoy and thus had no reason to get behind it. If Brawl was a better game worthy of a better fate things would have went differently for it. People didn't want Brawl to fail. The entire community was super hyped about Brawl before it came out and people got a chance to play it.
 
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