A Semi-Universal Technique-GFSC-Grounded Foot Stool Comboing(VID)

[BurningCrusader777]

This is probably scathingly obvious and well-known, but after a grounded jab/tilt lock, the opponent is forced to stand up without rolling or attacking, IIRC, so you can charge a smash to meet with the get-up time.

 

[MarKO X]

What about a late up B->dair? That might work.

UpB will work, giving the opponent the free 4% damage, and the dair to return to the ground.

I'm wondering this... would a ground footstooled dair sweetspot? If so, that could create a new situational thing to look for, no?

 

[Dark Sonic]

UpB will work, giving the opponent the free 4% damage, and the dair to return to the ground.

I'm wondering this... would a ground footstooled dair sweetspot? If so, that could create a new situational thing to look for, no?

Sweetspot dair and unsweespot dair act the same on grounded opponents (it would just send them up). I wanted the spring to dair because the dair would be lagless from that height and set up perfectly for uair traps.

And if it doesn't legitimately combo, then at least I get a free 4 percent and get away safely.

 

[Daimonster]

Neat to see, yes...applicable, probably not. If anything, highly situational AT.

 

[DanGR]

Im pretty sure you can, but, D-air's last hit doesn't start spiking until around 100%, might as well just kill

I suppose so...some characters just won't die at 100 though- say DDD.

Spoiler

+ it looks cool.

 

[choknater]

wow this is awesome

foot stool to chain lock imma try it out.

 

[Kizzu-kun]

Sweet research. But this very situational; your opponent's character needs to be in standing by position, otherwise this wouldn't work.

 

[Alopex]

As NikoK showed us here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rS8Kzdk5YY&feature=related (0:20), they don't have to be in standby animation at all. They just have to be idle, whether it's due to standby or lag from attacks or landing.

Plenty of attacks have post-lag or landing lag, and any of those creates the situation needed to use this.

And this is easy to execute, surprisingly.

I went and tried it out and actually succeeded in pulling it off easily. And I'm someone who sucks terribly at pulling off FSJ combos when those combos require midair FSJ, like Sheik's 80% combo.

I plan on incorporating this into my Lucas game, as he seems to benefit from it the most. Getting the kill is the hardest thing for Lucas to do, and this combo sets up an unavoidable Fsmash at 90% or higher, which is his best kill move at a percentage it easily kills with.



To GIMR:

I tried doing it with Kirby but have found that the hammer doesn't come out fast enough. The footstool lag ends just before the hammer hits. You're certain it works all the time? Have you tried using it on a training CPU set to "Walk" and seeing if the CPU manages to move before you land the hit? Because that's what happened to me, and if they can walk, then they can shield.
Try it out and see. If it works flawlessly for you, then maybe I'm inputting the hammer too slow.

 

[RazeveX]

Sweet research. But this very situational; your opponent's character needs to be in standing by position, otherwise this wouldn't work.

Not really...i assume you know this, but in case anyone doesn't, one of the best parts about comboing from a footstool is that it works through a shield. For some a common tactic in melee seemed to be shielding when your opponent was around you in the air, knowing they cant do anything, then punishing them when they hit the ground. This completely works around that.

And what i meant by "not really" is that if there is any time your opponent is shielding (possibly waiting for a grab, or if they rush in and shield) you can rush in with this, and it works quite well a lot of the time. That and some characters don't need precise positioning, unlike most in the video.

For example, I co-main pikachu, and footstool -> QUAC downwards ->dair/jump + nair/jump + uair combo etc. works wonders.

 

[Kizzu-kun]

Nah I know this.
What I do mean about being situational is that the situations needed to this work are:
1. Poor spacing by your opponent.
2. Poor decisions in match by your opponent [such as being in standing by (more accurately: not shielding or attacking) or using laggy attacks].

I'm not saying that this tactic isn't going to work, but don't expect to rely too much this in matches against better players.

 

[Niko_K]

It isn't necessarily poor spacing at all. The "hitbox" for the footstool is actually quite massive. I know that as peach I can footstool to dair from the edge, while the opponent is above me. The hitbox actually starts in the center of the body. The best way to get it off is to anticipate an attack, let it either

A) Whiff
or
B) Hit your shield

You should nearly be guaranteed the footstool if you're quick enough and have practiced this enough times.

In this video (my super old combo video), I d-throw > f-tilt, then wait in my shield for MK to attack it, then I footstool and it leads to a dair combo that tacks on 60 damage.

What the MK was doing (dair shield pressure) wasn't wrong at all. Just footstool out of shield is really fast. It was faster then the cooldown + startup for another dair from MK.

:45
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9OfEl3cSb0&feature=related

 

[Steel]

ill edit this since this clearly shouldnt be used as an approach

 

[Darth JoBak]

imo footstooling is still undreused underdeveloped but still so dang tough to get used to

 

[Steel]

imo footstooling is still undreused underdeveloped but still so dang tough to get used to

I think it's "underused" because it's basically impossible to pull off when you want to if your opponent is even somewhat ok at the game.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

I played around with this quite a bit; here are some of the things I found. I wasn't testing if it was possible to get out of any of this; these are just the things that looked best against a standing AI in training mode. I used Bowser for most tests since he's huge and easy to footstool, but as King Dedede demonstrates, that means I very likely missed some character exclusive stuff.

Mario and Luigi gets absolutely nothing.

Peach can float out of footstools so she obviously gets down aerial. She can hit with the Parasol too, but I'm not sure why you would want to. This might be a good way to set up to hit with the super turnip or a bomb.

Bowser doesn't get anything really, but if they have a low shield, Bowser Bomb could be a good choice (that move eats shields for those who forgot).

All DK gets is his forward special, but why would you want anything else anyway?

Diddy Kong can't land any aerials, but he can fire off his Rocketbarrels for a solid 10% hit. I suppose you could also chuck a banana downward.

I think Yoshi gets Ground Pound for sure out of this (and it looks like he can hit with Egg Roll... though it's useless), but he can't hit with aerials.

Wario gets nothing... not even a full Waft works.

Link can throw a bomb down but otherwise nothing.

Zelda only gets Nayru's Love. It looks like Sheik gets down aerial out of it but nothing else.

Ganondorf seems to get Wizard's Foot which is some pretty nice damage. I don't think he gets anything else.

Toon Link gets that lovely down aerial and can drop a bomb of course.

Samus doesn't get anything, but footstool to bomb does kill her momentum and seems like it could be handy for pressure.

Zero Suit Samus gets down aerial and seemingly nothing else excepting the obvious armor piece toss.

Pit doesn't land anything normally, but the Wings of Icarus totally kill his momentum and seem like they set him up for pretty much any aerial he wants. Pit players would probably know more about how to take advantage of that. Also, for the record, you can't glide out of a footstool.

As expected, the Ice Climbers just get the down aerial. This could be pretty cool with desynching I bet.

R.O.B. gets his down aerial and seemingly nothing else.

Kirby's hammer is probably best if you can do the pulling back stunt DK can, but stone seems to just barely not hit fast enough to combo.

Meta Knight only gets down aerial as has been claimed, but Dimension Cape is a funny choice (I'm pretty sure it doesn't combo).

King Dedede seems to do better with down aerial against some characters than others. He doesn't hit Bowser at all, hits Meta Knight and Snake just once, and hits Captain Falcon a bunch. None of his other stuff seems like it works.

I'm pretty sure Olimar gets nothing.

Fox's shine and illusion both cancel his momentum, but both hit too high. Fire Fox looks like it would give a very small window to escape since it sits above not hitting for a moment, but it is probably the best option.

Fire Falco, on the other hand, is not even close to worth it. On the other hand, Falco Phantasm actually does hit.

I don't think Wolf gets anything worthwhile.

Falcon Kick looks very forced, but nothing else Captain Falcon has seems to work.

Pikachu can Quick Attack right out of a footstool which I'm sure those Pikachu mains can put to devious use. Headbutt also cancels his ascent, but I'm not sure if it's even possible to hit with it (not that it's a good move anyway).

Squirtle seems to get a very nice hit out of Waterfall. Ivysaur seems to just get the down aerial (not that that's bad at all). Charizard seems to be able to combo into Fly which is VERY damaging. This is great for the Pokemon Trainer!

Predictably, Lucario seems to get his down aerial. Double Team and Extremespeed kill his momentum, but that's pretty useless for obvious reasons (I suppose you could have an epic moment where you footstool Popo and cancel with Double Team to nail Nana or something...).

Jigglypuff gets off a down aerial out of this. If I recall, down aerial can trip and lead into Rest with her so that's kinda cool.

Marth can cancel his ascent with Counter and otherwise has nothing of note.

Ike continues the trend of useless things that cancel the ascent with Aether (which doesn't hit) and Counter.

Ness can cancel his ascent with Pk Thunder and Pk Flash, but neither seem like they acutally are conducive to anyone but Ness getting hit.

Lucas's big story is still the down aerial, but he has the useless options of Pk Thunder and Pk Freeze just like Ness.

Mr. Game & Watch only gets the key here. I was really hoping it would combo into Oil Panic since the bucket cancels the ascent, but it only does when it's not full.

Snake could drop a grenade he was already carrying on them or hit with just the first hit of his down aerial.

Sonic gets his down aerial or his spring here.

 

[hyperstation]

First off, awesome thread.

Amazing Ampharos beat me to it, but just to confirm, Ganon get's wizards foot for a solid 15% damage. Beautiful. Chalk another possibility up on his already stellar tech chasing game.

I did testing vs lvl 9 cpus (the best I can do right now), and if your timing is late and they get a shield out in time, the quake effect of the wizards foot hitting the ground gets under the shield (or so it seems...these are cpus, remember).

Notably, this tech seems especially viable at mid-higher percentages as the quake causes greater pop-up, allowing ganon safe passage until his quake lag finishes.

 

[feardragon64]

Thank you for finding a USEFUL AT that actually gives characters safe killing options(sorta safe).

 

[Dark Sonic]

Marth can cancel his ascent with Counter and otherwise has nothing of note.

Marth gets his up B, it's already been proven in the video (just do the up B as soon as you do the footstool.

Meta Knight only gets down aerial as has been claimed, but Dimension Cape is a funny choice (I'm pretty sure it doesn't combo).

Test to see if he can get his up B.

First off, awesome thread.

Amazing Ampharos beat me to it, but just to confirm, Ganon get's wizards foot for a solid 15% damage. Beautiful. Chalk another possibility up on his already stellar tech chasing game.

I did testing vs lvl 9 cpus (the best I can do right now), and if your timing is late and they get a shield out in time, the quake effect of the wizards foot hitting the ground gets under the shield (or so it seems...these are cpus, remember).

Notably, this tech seems especially viable at mid-higher percentages as the quake causes greater pop-up, allowing ganon safe passage until his quake lag finishes.

If they can shield they can spotdodge.

 

[GimR]

To Amazing Ampharos(I didn't want to quote that whole thing lol)

Mario can N-air and D-air Wario out of it(I know wtf?)

Yoshi can eat people if you B-stick correctly

ROB can D-tilt trip Foot Stool D-air Fast fall and might be able to F-tilt out of that

Fox's shine will hit, you just have to do it extremely fast(I'm not sure about Illusion)

Falco's Up B will hit if you do it instantly. You can get about 25% damage with it if you hit with the start up flames and the ending hit of his Up-B.

With Kirbies, you have to input the Forward B instantly after Foot Stooling.(I jump with my index finger and use my thumb on B so this isn't to hard for me)

With King D3's hammer you have to footstool, double jump and then Down Air, all really fast.

Marth can D-air and Up-B out of it.(D-air is pretty much useless though)

Ness can Double jump to Back air(Sweet Spot)

Lol, with Snake you can Down-B,fast fall, and then if your opponent doesn't block fast enough, Foot stool again, Down B, when they get blown up in the air, foot stool a third time(aerial foot stool), and then... I dunno, be creative

I'm not 100% sure, but with Lucario I think you can Hit with the first then second part of his jab, and then FS D-air.(Could be a good finisher at high percent)

Peach miqht be able to Foot Stool to float, cancel the float, fast fall air dodge, to OPTIONS

Oh yeah, Charizard can D-air Wario out of FS


It seems that certain characters might be able to get comboed by different things based on there "Getting Foot Stooled animation". For me Wario seems to get comboed the easiest because his head sways back and forth during his GFS Animation




Thats one of the reasons I did to MK in the video, he's probably one the hardest to combo out of foots stool.

 

[Dark Sonic]

Thats one of the reasons I did to MK in the video, he's probably one the hardest to combo out of foots stool.

Figures.

Spoiler

Metaknight

 

[hyperstation]

If they can shield they can spotdodge.

Yeah, I thought about that, but I didn't post about it because I haven't tested it yet as I don't have another player to test with right now. I believe they'd still get hit by the quake. Quake stays out for a while even if the initial kick misses.

 

[fallenangemon0]

Wow. You just kicked the Metagame up a notch didn't you?

Do you mind if I share this with the folks on AiB? The WORLD needs to know about this!!!

 

[MuBa]

Too bad this technique is a bit situational seeing as how footstooling a moving opponent is quite difficult.

 

[Dark Sonic]

Yeah, I thought about that, but I didn't post about it because I haven't tested it yet as I don't have another player to test with right now. I believe they'd still get hit by the quake. Quake stays out for a while even if the initial kick misses.

If they can spotdodge they can roll.

 

[HeroMystic]

Mario can N-air and D-air Wario out of it(I know wtf?)

Mario and Luigi can also N-air, D-air, and B-air Yoshi's head during the footstool.

Too bad this technique is a bit situational seeing as how footstooling a moving opponent is quite difficult.

True, which is why this is an OOS AT. Too bad it only highly helps certain characters.

I'll be looking into aerial footstooling.

 

[3transfat]

For the longest time now I have been working on footstooling. But now it is necessary. Within the next six months, the foot stool will be the mother of all combos and dominate tournaments.

 

[Dark Sonic]

For the longest time now I have been working on footstooling. But now it is necessary. Within the next six months, the foot stool will be the mother of all combos and dominate tournaments.

Except that it won't because of how hard it is to footstool Metaknight.

And to footstool combo him.

 

[liverymen]

anyone know the requirements for a footstool to actually stun the opponent? I know footstools against shields don't affect the opponent. Footstools against opponents standing still do. Footstools against airborn opponents not doing attacks work.
Does footstooling affect opponents who are recovering from lag from a move? Or do they just stay in their lag recovery animation?

 

[HeroMystic]

Does footstooling affect opponents who are recovering from lag from a move?

Yes.

Spoiler

10footstools

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

I was doing this on 1/4 speed in training mode so it's hard to imagine I was missing timing windows by very much. Of course, like I said, this stuff seems character specific; I tested everything you said on Wario and Bowser and most of it seems to only work on Wario and not on Bowser. In fact, Bowser seems to have an unusually good "I just got hit by a footstool!" animation since he ducks down a bit so what I listed should work on almost every character. I am really growing to suspect that Bowser is the hardest character to combo out of the whole cast like this (as ironic as that is). I disagree with your assessment of Meta Knight; he seems pretty typical other than being one of the smaller targets for the initial footstool.

Mario sure can (note he only hits with a few hits of the down aerial), but it just doesn't work on Bowser.

Yoshi just seems WAY too high after he pulls out his tongue to get anyone when I do it on Bowser at least. Even on Wario, the tongue just doesn't seem like it should work because you don't stop rising during the starting animation; how does b-sticking actually stop that?

Bowser at least definitely has time to get out of any followups from R.O.B.'s down aerial... but I wasn't looking for followups anyway (when I said it's all he gets, I mean footstool -> not down aerial doesn't work with R.O.B.).

Fox hits Wario with both the shine and the illusion, but he just can't hit Bowser with them.

Yeah, Falco sure does nail Wario with Fire Falco... but it's totally ineffective on Bowser. Since this one is important, I tried it with a few random other characters. It works at least somewhat well on Lucario, Diddy Kong, Luigi (I just did 29% to him!), Donkey Kong, Mr. Game & Watch, Meta Knight, and Ike (I did 31%!). After all of that I finally found Pikachu against which it is just as sucky as it is against Bowser.

Hitting with the first hit of the hammer seems to be really easy on Wario, but I just can't seem to get it against Bowser (though he looks like he's low enough so maybe he could pull it off).

With King Dedede it doesn't seem like double jumping changes things; it doesn't hit Bowser and only hits Snake once.

As we've come to expect, both of those things with Marth hit Wario and miss Bowser. In fact they both hit Snake and Pikachu as well; more on this later in the post.

With Ness it's the same thing. It works on Wario (with amazingly narrow timing windows) but not on Bowser.

I looked at down special with Snake, and I concluded that a smart opponent would always roll after you used it. They definitely have plenty of time.

Charizard is in the same boat as everyone else; he hits Wario with his down aerial but not Bowser (so footstooling is even better for Pokemon Trainer!). Fly still seems like the better option; it does more damage (training mode 17% vs 14%) and is a better move to add to the stale moves queue.

I decided to go through with Marth's down aerial and see who I hit and didn't hit. I didn't hit Peach, Bowser, Diddy Kong, Zelda, Ganondorf, King Dedede, Olimar, Squirtle, Ivysaur, Lucario, Ness, and Lucas. These are the characters we might presume have the better "being footstooled" animations and are going to be the hardest to combo. Interestingly, I got a non-sweetspotted hit on Yoshi but the sweetspot on everyone else I hit; maybe Yoshi is especially easy to combo out of this? Also interesting is that I got Pikachu and not Diddy Kong while Fire Falco is way more effective on Diddy Kong than on Pikachu.

EDIT: Ness gets Pk Thunder (just the projectile) against Bowser and presumably everyone; I had made an error in my initial test.

 

[XienZo]

Can the firebird/fox be DIed out of or is the hitbox too big to make it out before the 31 damage? Because the easier to DI out of, the less impressive it would seem.


Anyone think that this would make Brawl's punishing be more severe? I mean in melee, you could lose a stock from a mistake, but now, we can do 31 damage(depending on DI-bility) for a mistake, so at least we'd be doing better.

 

[metroid1117]

After extensive testing, there's nothing in Mario's moveset that allows him to make good use of this.

Same goes for Ike. I was really hoping this was a way for him to use Eruption as a kill move, but this isn't the case.

I cried inside after I read this.

Seriously great find, I can see plenty of DK users picking this up.

 

[GimR]

Except that it won't because of how hard it is to footstool Metaknight.

Actually, MK is quite easy to foot stool because he is so small. You don't have to time it. All you have to do is Press jump twice as fast as you can.

I disagree with your assessment of Meta Knight; he seems pretty typical other than being one of the smaller targets for the initial footstool.

You may be right, I also found that Snake ducks down after being Foot stooled

Yoshi just seems WAY too high after he pulls out his tongue to get anyone when I do it on Bowser at least. Even on Wario, the tongue just doesn't seem like it should work because you don't stop rising during the starting animation; how does b-sticking actually stop that?

I'm sorry, I forgot to say you have to double jump before you do the B move. It cancels aerial momentum. Don't forget to B-stick.

Yeah, Falco sure does nail Wario with Fire Falco... but it's totally ineffective on Bowser. Since this one is important, I tried it with a few random other characters. It works at least somewhat well on Lucario, Diddy Kong, Luigi (I just did 29% to him!), Donkey Kong, Mr. Game & Watch, Meta Knight, and Ike (I did 31%!). After all of that I finally found Pikachu against which it is just as sucky as it is against Bowser.

Cool

With King Dedede it doesn't seem like double jumping changes things; it doesn't hit Bowser and only hits Snake once.

As I said a couple paragraphs above. Snake seems to duck down also. try testing it on others, I guess



PS: Thanks for doing all of this research, you're helping get this whole thing figured out very quickly

 

[thesage]

Ness can footstoll to pkt as well as nair on certain characters if you sh footstool.

 

[GimR]

sh footstool.

To Ampharos, make sure you're doing a short hopped foot stool.

 

[Crazy Cloud]

Edit: Tested my own idea out.

Ice climbers can desync and do a gfsj lock lol. Jiggs might be able to do a double gfsj, she barely goes up any distance, but her fall speed is... meh. Ganondorf is the next toward being able to do two, but Wario is out of the "stun" just before he gets there. No one else really comes close to being able to do a double gfsj. They either go way too high, or they don't fall fast enough.

 

[GimR]

Edit: Tested my own idea out.

Ice climbers can desync and do a gfsj lock lol. Jiggs might be able to do a double gfsj, she barely goes up any distance, but her fall speed is... meh. Ganondorf is the next toward being able to do two, but Wario is out of the "stun" just before he gets there. No one else really comes close to being able to do a double gfsj. They either go way too high, or they don't fall fast enough.

Yeah, I tested that out too. Snake can almost do it. Just to let you know. Some peoples double jumps are lower and quicker than their short hopped foot stool. So to try and get two foot stools out of it: It might just be better to FS and then instantly Double jump Fast fall and Foot Stool again.


I know peach can do it lol(After float)

 

[DanGR]

I figured out IC can chaingrab to the edge>dthrow>nana footstool, popo bair stage spike. It's hawt.

 

[JacobWins]

*****in' find

Ill test and see if Bowser can do anything with this

 

[Dark Sonic]

Actually, MK is quite easy to foot stool because he is so small. You don't have to time it. All you have to do is Press jump twice as fast as you can.

No, I mean MK in general does not leave him open for footstools that often.

Unless his spacing is bad.