A Rodent, A Turtle, and Children: Analyzing Bowser's Place in the Tiers

[B!squick]

Like the Sonic thread that compared him to his neighbors on the tier list, I propose we do the same for Bowser. Mostly because I'm bored. Though I wouldn't be if someone would play me in Bowser dittos. *hint hint*


Now, since we got a new and surprising friend this list who is apparently equal to Bowser, I think NESS is a good place to start. Since the beginning of last year, Ness has consistently been a cut above Bowser with the lone exception of Aug-Sept '09. If their match-up chart is to be believed, Ness is better against more characters (low tiers all) and has overall better match-ups.

So what keeps them together where they are? Is it merely the seeming insanity of the SBR, or there more to it than that? Or could it simply be it's the ruling on Bowsercide keeping him afloat?

Thoughts?

 

[Flayl]

Summary of all my possible replies: I think Bowser should stay at his position (or 1 lower with ike above) but a tier lower. I think of him as the gatekeeper of low tier characters.

I really don't have that much Ness experience, but he does look a slightly better character than Bowser. I think his grab release stuff is his substitute for the many chaingrabs on Bowser, so it kinda evens out.

I have a biased view on his recovery, I think he has it worse than Bowser (you can gimp him by jumping/hovering above him...) and he's a middle-weight. But apparently this doesn't come into play as much as I assumed it did, or else we wouldn't see Ness placing like he does.

He has cool kill moves in Bthrow, BAir and UAir and his own mindgame KO'ing move in PK Thunder (closest comparison would be our FSmash or Bowser Bomb). His projectile allows to set up some attacks, (not sure what on who, but it does hurt the big guys more). He has an anti-energy projectile move, something Bowser dreams of having. Not sure if it's that good lag-wise anyway.

He can actually Jab lock people, his OoS options are hurt by good spacing (NAir only hits early if opponent is close). His range on the ground really sucks but at least he has a disjointed aerial.

So, yeah.

 

[Cassius.]

Bowser sucks.


lul.

Everything Flayl said basically sums up the possible reasons why Ness was even considered for being tied with Bowser.

I personally don't see Bowser as a "gatekeeper" of low tiers, but that's just me being an optimistic Bowser guy. I acknowledge that he's not that good but he's certainly not low tier to me. Low-mid tier is more suitable, but hey; since Bowser is technically mid tier (by taking a plain look at the list) but technically he's upper low...it makes no difference to me.

 

[Ixisnaugus]

Well if my opinion is appreciated I'm fairly pleased with most of the new character placements of 4.0. In regards to Ness and E tier i think the little guy should have Pokemon Trainer's spot to be honest, the character is stereotyped because of specific weaknesses and exploitable recovery but i really don't think he's as bad as many made out. I'd go as far as to say he's a better character than Bowser but i have a pretty low opinion of Bowser anyway so I'm biased.

 

[MrEh]

Who the hell is Ness?

 

[Ixisnaugus]

Who the hell is Ness?

 

[MrEh]

I see what you did there.

 

[Flayl]

Wrong console, Ixis >:[

 

[B!squick]

Er, how is that the wrong console? O.o

 

[Flayl]

Ness is an anagram (on purpose) of SNES.

 

[B!squick]

Okay, but the joke wouldn't make sense like that. Well, to anyone but you anyway, lol. If you say NES it sounds exactly like Ness.

 

[Ixisnaugus]

touche Flayl...

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Nes > SNES anyway.

Spoiler

i saw ixis posting and couldnt resist : (

 

[Bowser King]

Guys, guys this is to discuss bowser not consoles.

 

[JOE!]

...but bowser is on the consoles mentioned, so it counts?

 

[B!squick]

What about SONIC? He's basically a better Captain Falcon with less priority. I really don't know why he's where he's at in the tier list. His only potentially safe move is BAir, which means his only real kill move is FSmash which isn't that good. UAir can work to, but only if you're not fast enough to AD that ****.

 

[Kofu]

Sonic's speed, combined with his Side/Down-B moves, give him crazy mindgame potential.

Plus his recovery is rather good.

 

[B!squick]

Mind games can only take you so far. Mind games also depend on how smart someone is compared to his opponent. Mind games, anticipating your opponent, and the like are what separates great players from good players NOT great characters from good characters. Or in Sonic's case, semi-okay characters from worse characters.

 

[Kofu]

I fight a rather good Sonic on a regular basis.

Bowser:
-Heavy
-Good Damage Output
-Good KO Potential
-Mediocre Range (for his size, anyway)
-Mediocre Recovery
-Gets Juggled
-Okay mobility

Sonic
-Mid-weight
-Okay Damage Output
-Bad KO Potential
-Okay Range
-Great Recovery
-Doesn't get Juggled and Juggles pretty well.
-Crazy Mobility

Yeah, that basically sums it up. He's more or less on Bowser's level IMO, although they're very different characters.

 

[B!squick]

I actually think Ness should be in the spot above Bowser and Sonic should be tied with the Koopa King. That would have made more sense.

 

[Horrible Rape]

Bowser cons:
-Hurtbox the size of a small country.

That is all

 

[B!squick]

Bowser cons:
-Hurtbox the size of a small country.

That is all

Most informative post on the Bowser Board ever, imo.

 

[MrEh]

Bowser cons:
-Hurtbox the size of a small country.

That is all

I actually lol'ed.

 

[Godzillabr]

sonic's low tier.
he can't kill and also have no priority on the moves, and above all, all he do is spin and jump > Dair, its boring.

for me ike could go on sonic place, tied with bowser, and ness being alone on the lower part of mid tier.

 

[Shök]

Bowser's tier placement is a little more accurate in this list, in my opinion.

 

[B!squick]

Maybe if you're looking at the tier list as a whole, but what about in relation to those around him?

Also, it's not like this is a drastic change. He only dropped half a spot if you want to be technical, due to the tie.

 

[Cassius.]

The whole tier list imo is weird.

It was released unexpectedly and...it's just weird.

S-A-part of B is fine though.

I guess, those are the only characters that really matter so it's no biggie

 

[Shök]

The whole tier list imo is weird.

It was released unexpectedly and...it's just weird.

S-A-part of B is fine though.

I guess, those are the only characters that really matter so it's no biggie

I agree on the unexpected part. I never saw it coming. Lol.

 

[B!squick]

Captain Falcon was unexpected. He's like a Samus without a projectile. So how did he get so high? O.o

 

[MrEh]

Ally.

Seriously.

 

[B!squick]

Oh yeah. My mistake. That actually explains everything.