A Question to Charizard Mains

[Bloodcross]

Mainly the fact that Dragon Rush kills Luma almost every single time it hits him, in addition to the fact that Dragon Rush serves as a great method of approaching Rosalina without being easily punished (she cannot easily just roll away from the move and then punish Charizard with a dash attack or a dash grab, like she can do against Charizard's other approaches such as dash grab or short-hop Nair).

Oh my God. You weren't kidding, Dragon Rush is SO good in that matchup, just played it today LOL.

 

[Steeler]

Oh my God. You weren't kidding, Dragon Rush is SO good in that matchup, just played it today LOL.

Spoiler alert it's good in pretty much every matchup LOL

 

[RadianB]

I don't think it's good in the Link and Mega Man match up. It doesn't go through their projectiles.

 

[wha-ha-ha]

Personally I'm an extremely heavy Flare Blitz user and think it's a great move. In my opinion things like the kill power of the move are completely secondary to the most important features of it which are the super armor and the mobility it offers. It can be used as a strong punishment device not just for scrubby rolls, but for a great deal of moves that would be otherwise unsafe to attack or go in on, such as projectiles and large disjointed hitboxes.

For example, if a (zero suit) samus shoots her gun, a (t)link throws a boomerang, a DHD throws a frisbee, a sonic does a hasty spin dash, a meta knight initiates a tornado, there's a warlock punch, a shield breaker, and so on and so on, they should almost always take a flare blitz for it. At least as far as I'm concerned. You don't have to care even one bit about projectiles or the hitboxes of the moves you're attacking or even your precise positionality beyond "will I get there in time?" because you'll just go straight through it all, and the answer to that question is usually yes if your reaction time is reasonable. It's a great tool for hard punishes of moves that'd ordinarily be less punishable or more risky to try and punish, as well as a tool for conditioning your opponents, making it an indispensable part of charizard's kit in my opinion.

 

[-LzR-]

For most of those things you might as well use another move and gain much more from it unless you get a kill from it. How exactly are people just throwing stuff around wishing to get hit? Good opponents know to respect Flare Blitz and you won't get many opportunities.

 

[wha-ha-ha]

What other options might one use instead for covering unsafe projectile use in this way? Obviously people don't just throw them out wishing to get hit, but sometimes they do (in which case they get hit) and when they don't it makes for a lot less troublesome objects to deal with

 

[-LzR-]

What other options might one use instead for covering unsafe projectile use in this way? Obviously people don't just throw them out wishing to get hit, but sometimes they do (in which case they get hit) and when they don't it makes for a lot less troublesome objects to deal with

Slowly approaching and powershielding projectiles takes you very far. Once you get close they can no longer throw projectiles.

 

[RadianB]

Personally I'm an extremely heavy Flare Blitz user and think it's a great move. In my opinion things like the kill power of the move are completely secondary to the most important features of it which are the super armor and the mobility it offers. It can be used as a strong punishment device not just for scrubby rolls, but for a great deal of moves that would be otherwise unsafe to attack or go in on, such as projectiles and large disjointed hitboxes.

For example, if a (zero suit) samus shoots her gun, a (t)link throws a boomerang, a DHD throws a frisbee, a sonic does a hasty spin dash, a meta knight initiates a tornado, there's a warlock punch, a shield breaker, and so on and so on, they should almost always take a flare blitz for it. At least as far as I'm concerned. You don't have to care even one bit about projectiles or the hitboxes of the moves you're attacking or even your precise positionality beyond "will I get there in time?" because you'll just go straight through it all, and the answer to that question is usually yes if your reaction time is reasonable. It's a great tool for hard punishes of moves that'd ordinarily be less punishable or more risky to try and punish, as well as a tool for conditioning your opponents, making it an indispensable part of charizard's kit in my opinion.

I'm pretty sure Flare Blitz doesn't go through Duck Hunt Duo's frisbee even though it should.

 

[Davregis]

Slowly approaching and powershielding projectiles takes you very far. Once you get close they can no longer throw projectiles.

flamethrower on shield more than anything is what separates Charizard from his horrible-at-approaching bretheren.
does 3% through shield if you hit them with a full one & pushes them back, giving them less room to escape and reset the zone

 

[-LzR-]

flamethrower on shield more than anything is what separates Charizard from his horrible-at-approaching bretheren.
does 3% through shield if you hit them with a full one & pushes them back, giving them less room to escape and reset the zone

Yeah it's amazing. If you can make them scared of rolling behind you Flamethrower will give you a good time.

 

[DJDave189]

Just tested out Dragon Rush and I really like it more than Flare Blitz.

 

[-LzR-]

I've gotten much better at using Dragon Rush now, but I still don't understand how it's supposed to be used offstage. If I am at the ledge when I perform the move I will kill myself before the move ends. Any tips on this? I would like to use things like Ledge Trump Dragon Rush but the most I've gotten out of that has been a sacrificial KO.

 

[Davregis]

I've gotten much better at using Dragon Rush now, but I still don't understand how it's supposed to be used offstage. If I am at the ledge when I perform the move I will kill myself before the move ends. Any tips on this? I would like to use things like Ledge Trump Dragon Rush but the most I've gotten out of that has been a sacrificial KO.

bit of a misnomer, usually means onstage drush that's close to the edge and carries the opponent a fair bit off

 

[wha-ha-ha]

YO, just stopping by to say I was kinda wrong about Flare Blitz and Dragon Rush is indeed THE BEE'S KNEES. Running 3323 right now instead of default as I have in the past and absolutely loving it - thanks to this thread for inspiring me to try it out.

 

[Steeler]

Welcome to truth, friend.

You trump and get up from ledge. DR will scoop people up from their now vulnerable ledge grab. So ****ing free.

 

[Knee Smasher]

A question to people who almost exclusively use Dragon Rush over Flare Blitz:

What are the top 5 most common moves with which you score a KO?

I realize that Dragon Rush is amazing, especially in the Rosalina matchup, but I think many people on this board are downplaying to an extreme amount just how much it means to lose a primary KO option in Flare Blitz. I find that in the absence of Flare Blitz, my opponents are on average living to significantly higher %s than before.

 

[ZephyrZ]

What are the top 5 most common moves with which you score a KO?

Up Smash, Up Smash, Fair, Uair, and Up Smash.

But I can't deny that Flare Blitz has saved me a good handful of times.

 

[Davregis]

What are the top 5 most common moves with which you score a KO?

USmash, UAir, Fly, edge of DSmash, Rock Smash

 

[ZephyrZ]

...I feel like that Flare Blitz is certainly a viable option, but I still feel like it's overshadowed too much by Dragon Rush.

While Flare Blitz, in a favorable situation, can end a juggle with a literal bang, Dragon Rush can keep the juggle going for much longer and allows Charizard to exert even more offensive pressure. Even if your opponent will live to higher percents, Dragon Rush will help them reach those percents much quicker.

I think Dragon Rush should be the go-to custom of choice and Flare Blitz should be the match-up specific one.

 

[-LzR-]

Even if I used Flare Blitz I still wouldn't get much kills with it. It has ****ty knockback compared to the risks and drawbacks of the move. I mean Up air kills earlier 90% of the time and doesn't force me to eat 9% + armor and risk getting jab locked to death.
Flare Blitz is one of the most awful moves in the game.
If you want to kill very early with super armor why not just use Fly? I just killed at 50% with Fly recently, I'd be lucky to kill at 110% with Blitz. And there is even less risk in the move, at least you'll only eat one strong punish instead of a free jablock + 9%.

If Blitz was actually stronger than say, Bair, Upair, Usmash, Fsmash it might have a purpose. But what's the point when it's quite weak compared to those moves?

Use Dragon Rush, you'll be doing yourself a favor. Blitz is just a For Glory gimmick.

 

[Grizzlpaw]

How often... Depends on who I'm fighting.

If I'm facing someone who always rolls back whenever I make a move on them, then I might just run up like I'm going to attack them, then when they roll Charizard's like "GET OVER HERE"

*uses skull bash*


If you hit someone with Nair or Dtilt and they hit the ground without teching, a quick Nair/Dair into Flareblitz might catch some opponents offguard (You can also land it out of Bthrow. It's gimmicky but it does work. Trela got it to work vs zinoto's diddy)


If I'm against Rosalina, I like to purposefully flare blitz her shield. It sends luma skyrocketing away, and if she flies offstage (super easy to do) , she gets sent into a tumble, so rosalina can't save her.

Yeeeeeeah, I'm going to get punished but solo rosalina's punishes aren't that scary.



Against someone good, I hold onto it until I get a read.

Or they do something silly

*cough* Pk Thunder *cough*



It's also lets charizard fly like an eagle recover horizontally from practically anywhere so there's that.