• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

A question concerning pro Lucas players & their playstyle preference

HiddenBowser

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 27, 2007
Messages
3,511
And yeah. I'm not going to argue that his approach is incredible, but it's not awful. He has Dair and Bair, both of which can be used safely. And besides, Lucas is better suited to defensive play I find.
Also, shorthopped Fair can't be so easily punished if you pull back halfway through the short hop. It auto-cancels if you do it right away, so it's not horribly unsafe if you use it properly.

And I'm not wrong. What I said before still applies.

And he's quite adept at using them defensively.
playing defensively doesn't work with lucas if your opponent is at a lower percent. Its way too easy to shield his projectile so lucas will never force your opponent to approach if he doesn't want to.

the problem with using his aerials to approach safely is that the range doesn't go anywhere so its basically pointless to do because it never pressures your opponent to do anything and its way to easy to own with a move that has better range.
 

NESSBOUNDER

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 19, 2002
Messages
3,167
Location
somewhere sunny
playing defensively doesn't work with lucas if your opponent is at a lower percent. Its way too easy to shield his projectile so lucas will never force your opponent to approach if he doesn't want to.

the problem with using his aerials to approach safely is that the range doesn't go anywhere so its basically pointless to do because it never pressures your opponent to do anything and its way to easy to own with a move that has better range.
Well there's a spot on his Bair which has very good range. It's diagonally down from his back and the third hitbox that comes out and below him. The good thing about this is that it attacks from a point where a lot of characters have a blind spot unless they angle their tilts or smashes.

And he can always pull back to prevent the opponent from countering, since the attack auto cancels. The only issue is that it's not good spacing to do it from a short hop.

And also to just satisfy my own curiosity, I just checked his Fair and it has about the same range as Zelda's Fair, which is alright I guess. It still has the advantage of being slightly more disjointed.
Likewise, his tilts aren't bad at all. His Ftilt's range isn't as poor as you made it out to be, and Utilt has surprising range and speed too.

I can see where you're coming from, but we generally don't have these issues while playing. You've got to remember that a lot of lucas's attacks are relatively lagless save for his more obvious smashes.

I don't main Lucas as ferociously as I used to, since I picked up Lucario, so I'm probably a little behind on his game. But I haven't seen a Lucas player who suffers from getting camped as badly as you say.

PK fire isn't that terrible. You can punish people who roll past it by doing a jab and stuff. *shrugs*

But besides all that, Lucas's frame data is quite good. He's quick and for the most part safe.
 

prOAPC

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 24, 2008
Messages
1,816
Location
Cartagena/Bogotá - Colombia
@Bowyer: why can't we use Lucas' Usmash, but you can use Jiggs' rest? (You play Jiggs, right?
Usmash is more powerful, it has a way better range and has a little less lag after the attack (not counting the invincible frames). Miss a Usmash vs a jiggs, and you'll receive a rest and a flower in the head, but if you are jiggs, and miss a rest vs lucas, prepare to get hit by a charged usmash
 

HiddenBowser

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 27, 2007
Messages
3,511
@Bowyer: why can't we use Lucas' Usmash, but you can use Jiggs' rest? (You play Jiggs, right?
Usmash is more powerful, it has a way better range and has a little less lag after the attack (not counting the invincible frames). Miss a Usmash vs a jiggs, and you'll receive a rest and a flower in the head, but if you are jiggs, and miss a rest vs lucas, prepare to get hit by a charged usmash
lol, this is the weakest argument I've seen on the lucas boards.

rest comes out on frame one and you can combo into it or you can hit someone after they do something stupid. And anyways, its called a) don't miss (if you miss, you shouldn't have use it) and b) don't use it unless your opponent is going to die from it.

I never said you couldn't use usmash, but just be prepared to heavily get owned from it because it will never land on a good player.
 

Tyr_03

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 4, 2008
Messages
2,805
Location
OH
Okay yea Usmash is nothing like rest. I don't think that means it's unlandable but I have to agree that that is a very poor comparison. If anything it's like trying to land a warlock or falcon punch.
 

NESSBOUNDER

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 19, 2002
Messages
3,167
Location
somewhere sunny
It is way easier to land Lucas's upsmash in comparison to Falcon and Warlock punch.

For starters, it comes out much faster than either of these moves and the hitbox is waaaaay bigger. You'll also be using it on airborn opponents who only have a few options at their disposal. One of them is not "shield" or "roll" which are the main things that prevent Falcon punch from being easy to land.
 

NESSBOUNDER

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 19, 2002
Messages
3,167
Location
somewhere sunny
Mindgames are one thing, but Lucas can also do aerial traps with this move. Especially the sliding variant.

It's also very effective as an edgeguard, like I said before. Even against opponents who like to hang on the ledge because of how large the hitbox is.
 

Levitas

the moon
Joined
Jul 20, 2007
Messages
5,734
Location
Ann Arbor, MI
until your opponents start either hitting you before the animation or after it with their strongest attacks.

His Usmash is almost always unusably bad.
 

Zero_Gamer

Smash Master
Joined
May 13, 2008
Messages
3,135
Location
Reidsville, NC (Not anywhere)
Of course, I wouldn't recommend using it very much or maybe even at all in high levels of play, but it's still a strange effect and has destroyed my opponent on several occasions when I was feeling risky enough to use it.
 

x9whitey9x

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 21, 2008
Messages
291
Location
Virginia
1. How often do you use PKT2 as a recovery? Do you use it only when necessary, to avoid obvious gimping?
I use it as a recovery when I'm not in a good position to rope snake. I rarely Zap Jump.
2. How many still avidly B-Stick or feel that the C-stick is superior?
I feel that regular C-stick is better after months of B-sticking.
3. What controller do you use and why? Any special configurations?
Gamecube.
L=Jump
C-stick=tilts, since I suck at doing them regularly.

4. What set-ups do you use to create spacing and control the match in your favor?(obviously this changes from match to match with specific character match-ups changing the variable, but something textbook)
Not many, honestly. I can't name them off the top.
5. What moves do you rely on as your most dedicated kill attacks? What ones do you avoid?
F-Smash, D-Smash, Fair when on the offensive, and Down-B as a surprise move.
 

Omis

my friends were skinny
Joined
May 22, 2008
Messages
2,515
Location
including myself in your posts
until your opponents start either hitting you before the animation or after it with their strongest attacks.

His Usmash is almost always unusably bad.
Are you kidding? Not to be rude but is is not even close to unusable. Have you ever tried to use it on final destination?
 

NESSBOUNDER

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 19, 2002
Messages
3,167
Location
somewhere sunny
until your opponents start either hitting you before the animation or after it with their strongest attacks.

His Usmash is almost always unusably bad.
Most characters won't be able to hit you in time if you have them in the optimal position for an up smash. It has that much range.
 

NESSBOUNDER

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 19, 2002
Messages
3,167
Location
somewhere sunny
You know Zero Suit Samus's upsmash? Lucas's goes slightly higher than that.

Another key element of the upsmash is how long the hitbox stays out for. It's not like it just flickers and dies instantly like a Marth sword swing.
 

Doyoudigworms

Smash Cadet
Joined
Feb 5, 2008
Messages
34
Thanks for the input from all Lucas players who care to help out other Lucas players. Aside from slight differences in controller style, it seems like many players have a more direct offensive approach rather then defensive. We all know we can't win with just PK Fire.

It appears that this thread sparked somewhat of a mild debate on both the quality of Lucas and the shear usefulness of his moves in a competitive sense.

Bowyer & Nessbounder have some legitimate points. And I know all the hardcore Lucas players finding that Lucas falling on the tier list below what they anticipated is to say the least dis-heartening, but we also continue to play him out of appreciation for his move set, and obviously consider Lucas to have a more positive light than Bowyer can see. Which is alright. But this thread was not made to capitalize on Lucas' weaknesses but to dive into the minds of Lucas players and find positive aspects of how Lucas should be played and how players approach their favorite character to achieve wins.

Brawl has a weird divide of fans, I'm not here to create more of a rift. Obviously Lucas has some major downfalls, I just want to know what people do to combat those particular downfalls.
 
Top Bottom