A New Wah-volution!: NEW Waluigi Support Thread

Wario Wario Wario

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I hope this is fake! Springman the only upgraded character?!
Please don't watch Blocked Content. It's a clickbait channel that will report on any random 4chan text leak. "Mallow over Geno" and "Sonic Forces sequel" are clearly troll leaks designed to get a rise out of people - perfect for a clickbaity thumbnail. (through TBH I would prefer Mallow over Geno...)
 

Akakomuma

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Let's be honest. Waluigi is the only plumber not in the game and they added in Piranha Plant before him. There's no reason not to add him at this point he's the most wanted character out of all characters and always tops the charts.

The only thing stopping him from being in is Sakurai's bias against him. They really should add him.
 

Wario Wario Wario

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Let's be honest. Waluigi is the only plumber not in the game and they added in Piranha Plant before him. There's no reason not to add him at this point he's the most wanted character out of all characters and always tops the charts.

The only thing stopping him from being in is Sakurai's bias against him. They really should add him.
I personally don't believe Sakurai bias exists - the only real evidence pointing towards it existing the constant barrage of FE fighters and him making an occasional joke about a character's exclusion a la Waluigi's reveal as an AT for the 3 games prior to Ultimate (which he doesn't really do any more anyway), but the prior is more likely Nintendo's fault than Sakurai's (saying "no" to corporate overloads isn't as easy as it may seem), while the latter really means nothing considering the Ridley tease in the Pyrosphere reveal is one of those examples.
 

Akakomuma

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I personally don't believe Sakurai bias exists - the only real evidence pointing towards it existing the constant barrage of FE fighters and him making an occasional joke about a character's exclusion a la Waluigi's reveal as an AT for the 3 games prior to Ultimate (which he doesn't really do any more anyway), but the prior is more likely Nintendo's fault than Sakurai's (saying "no" to corporate overloads isn't as easy as it may seem), while the latter really means nothing considering the Ridley tease in the Pyrosphere reveal is one of those examples.
I think in an idealistic world we can assume humans don't have biasy but Sakurai clearly does. There would be no reason for Dark Pit, or Piranha Plant, or so many Fire Emblem characters if his innate personal preference weren't involved in some manner.
 

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I think in an idealistic world we can assume humans don't have biasy but Sakurai clearly does. There would be no reason for Dark Pit, or Piranha Plant, or so many Fire Emblem characters if his innate personal preference weren't involved in some manner.
Sakurai added Corrin because his team convinced him. And he was suggested the character by Nintendo themselves. He almost didn't add him, citing he does feel like FE feels a bit large cast-wise in Smash.

Sakurai added Byleth because it wasn't his choice, it was purely Nintendo's.

Sakurai added Chrom this time around because the fans clamored for it.

Only 5 out of 8 were even his personal choice. So no, it's not Sakurai bias here. That's also not what happened with Dark Pit. Dark Pit was easy enough to make separate, and wouldn't actually use the same Final Smash. He didn't fit. Any more than Dr. Mario did. Lucina was just simply popular and lucked out. The only one who didn't luck out was Alph, and that's because Alph's only problem with bad animations that doesn't fit his personality at best. The Pikmin & Captain characters also focus hard on the Pikmin, so Alph can do everything Olimar can do as is. That, and the only idea they had was "Rock Pikmin", which require a lot more work than a slightly different effect on the Arm that Pit uses. So it was a lot easier. Dark Pit Staff is also a quick redo, and they had his Staff among the assets from the 3DS games, which is why they were able to very easily port over enemies for Smash 3DS' Smash Run. Something that didn't work for the Wii U version. A lot of this was just easy assets. If Rock Pikmin were already on a 3DS game, they could've added them in way faster by porting over the models. Whether or not Alph became an Echo as is.

It's about assets and time. And just to remind you, Sakurai's personal preference towards FE is "it's getting a bit large". Chrom he actually dismissed, so there's nothing suggesting he really liked the idea himself. He just wanted to please fans, which, let's be real, Chrom getting wafflestomped in Lucina's reveal trailer plus being mocked in Viridi's? Yeah, I think it was fair he replied to the "we want Chrom" well.

PP is personal preference(someone who isn't just a hero/heroine), but so is guys like Ice Climbers, Mr. Game & Watch, Duck Hunt, retros in general, and so on. The Belmonts were too. He thought they'd fit better over Alucard due to being the core protagonists of the franchise. These aren't bad things. He wanted Hero over Slime due to the protagonist factor too. In fact, we didn't get King Dedede in Melee for two reasons; he felt Kirby getting a lot would be unfairly biased, and that he couldn't even make it plausible as he would need more time than all of the clone characters put together.
 

Akakomuma

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Sakurai added Corrin because his team convinced him. And he was suggested the character by Nintendo themselves. He almost didn't add him, citing he does feel like FE feels a bit large cast-wise in Smash.

Sakurai added Byleth because it wasn't his choice, it was purely Nintendo's.

Sakurai added Chrom this time around because the fans clamored for it.

Only 5 out of 8 were even his personal choice. So no, it's not Sakurai bias here. That's also not what happened with Dark Pit. Dark Pit was easy enough to make separate, and wouldn't actually use the same Final Smash. He didn't fit. Any more than Dr. Mario did. Lucina was just simply popular and lucked out. The only one who didn't luck out was Alph, and that's because Alph's only problem with bad animations that doesn't fit his personality at best. The Pikmin & Captain characters also focus hard on the Pikmin, so Alph can do everything Olimar can do as is. That, and the only idea they had was "Rock Pikmin", which require a lot more work than a slightly different effect on the Arm that Pit uses. So it was a lot easier. Dark Pit Staff is also a quick redo, and they had his Staff among the assets from the 3DS games, which is why they were able to very easily port over enemies for Smash 3DS' Smash Run. Something that didn't work for the Wii U version. A lot of this was just easy assets. If Rock Pikmin were already on a 3DS game, they could've added them in way faster by porting over the models. Whether or not Alph became an Echo as is.

It's about assets and time. And just to remind you, Sakurai's personal preference towards FE is "it's getting a bit large". Chrom he actually dismissed, so there's nothing suggesting he really liked the idea himself. He just wanted to please fans, which, let's be real, Chrom getting wafflestomped in Lucina's reveal trailer plus being mocked in Viridi's? Yeah, I think it was fair he replied to the "we want Chrom" well.

PP is personal preference(someone who isn't just a hero/heroine), but so is guys like Ice Climbers, Mr. Game & Watch, Duck Hunt, retros in general, and so on. The Belmonts were too. He thought they'd fit better over Alucard due to being the core protagonists of the franchise. These aren't bad things. He wanted Hero over Slime due to the protagonist factor too. In fact, we didn't get King Dedede in Melee for two reasons; he felt Kirby getting a lot would be unfairly biased, and that he couldn't even make it plausible as he would need more time than all of the clone characters put together.
Even if you remove those two there was still an abundant amount. There's still Chrom, that's clearly his choice. He could've gave Alph a character slot, but he went for the FE character.

And Byleth I'm not sure you can even count because once again he has the final say on the character list. Nintendo gave him a list for him to personally choose.

As for Corrin yes he didn't choose that, but I mean he was still convinced. I love Corrin and all but there's no way he doesn't have a preference for FE to some degree you don't add that many characters and gush about FE often in articles and not.

Also the Kirby thing doesn't mean a whole lot when the very next game he adds two Kirby characters. This is also ignoring how Dark Pit who is literally just a recolor gets a character slot over Alph. And Chrom gets in before Alph who was already an alt.
 

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Even if you remove those two there was still an abundant amount. There's still Chrom, that's clearly his choice. He could've gave Alph a character slot, but he went for the FE character.
For what reason? Alph isn't highly requested. Pikmin & Alph, the actual character, revolve highly around the Pikmin. There's no Pikmin coming out. There's quite literally no good reason to do so with a massive lack of requests, no new Pikmin to promote, and at worst, Alph has a slightly bad personality but still plays identically on his own to Olimar. That's solely "changing it for the sake of changing it".

Chrom has massive requests, got pretty much screwed over with the trailer and Viridi downplaying him. Fans were mad and vastly wanted him in to fix this. There's actually a good reason to add him as an Echo. Nobody was "for the sake of it" in any case. Alph will have his chance, when a new Pikmin game justifies it. Alph only got in as a costume when Pikmin was an active franchise anyway. That's pretty lucky here.

And Byleth I'm not sure you can even count because once again he has the final say on the character list. Nintendo gave him a list for him to personally choose.
This is false information. Sakurai never had the "final say". He has the final say on how they work as a character, but that's it. He makes the movesets. That's very misleading to what happened.

As for Corrin yes he didn't choose that, but I mean he was still convinced. I love Corrin and all but there's no way he doesn't have a preference for FE to some degree you don't add that many characters and gush about FE often in articles and not.
He was convinced because of uniqueness, not because of a love of FE, which he still has stated he thinks it has too many characters. Yeah, your interpretation doesn't really add up here.

Also the Kirby thing doesn't mean a whole lot when the very next game he adds two Kirby characters. This is also ignoring how Dark Pit who is literally just a recolor gets a character slot over Alph. And Chrom gets in before Alph who was already an alt.
It means a whole lot. He's wary of overloading characters/content from any franchise. He didn't overload Brawl with Kirby stuff either way. There was stuff from tons of other places. Circumstances are what allowed FE to get anywhere the way it is. In addition to that, FE has a new protagonist per every game, and a giant cast of characters. That's also the reason they're all partial/full sword users, cause nobody else uses a core different weapon. His like for the series isn't something that really affected Smash 4 DLC and beyond in itself. He added Roy back because he's a massive Melee fan request. Updating him was just so you didn't have two characters that played almost the same as Marth as is. Which was smart, since it made people more likely to get the character anyway as DLC.

It's like you ignored every reason why Dark Pit was added. If you can't understand why assets and game ideas matter more than just "lol, he exists", then there's nothing of note to say here. Here's a reality check; Dark Pit was relevant, cannot perform all of Pit's moveset identically(mainly the final smash. And no, Alph can do literally all of what Olimar can do with no tangible differences. Dark Pit cannot literally use the Sacred Treasures. Alph was not relevant when added. Not even from a constantly selling game as of right now), and the team had unique and easy ideas of how to make Dark Pit work separately from Pit. All of Pikmin & Alph's moveset, btw, revolves around the Pikmin. If you can't make the Pikmin different, you can't make Alph different. It's a duo character, no different from Rosalina & Luma or Ice Climbers, in that regard. When making an Echo, you take it all into account. No matter how poor the Echo can be(Daisy is a great example of the only Echo with barely any differences that matter).
 
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Akakomuma

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For what reason? Alph isn't highly requested. Pikmin & Alph, the actual character, revolve highly around the Pikmin. There's no Pikmin coming out. There's quite literally no good reason to do so with a massive lack of requests, no new Pikmin to promote, and at worst, Alph has a slightly bad personality but still plays identically on his own to Olimar. That's solely "changing it for the sake of changing it".

Chrom has massive requests, got pretty much screwed over with the trailer and Viridi downplaying him. Fans were mad and vastly wanted him in to fix this. There's actually a good reason to add him as an Echo. Nobody was "for the sake of it" in any case. Alph will have his chance, when a new Pikmin game justifies it. Alph only got in as a costume when Pikmin was an active franchise anyway. That's pretty lucky here.


This is false information. Sakurai never had the "final say". He has the final say on how they work as a character, but that's it. He makes the movesets. That's very misleading to what happened.


He was convinced because of uniqueness, not because of a love of FE, which he still has stated he thinks it has too many characters. Yeah, your interpretation doesn't really add up here.


It means a whole lot. He's wary of overloading characters/content from any franchise. He didn't overload Brawl with Kirby stuff either way. There was stuff from tons of other places. Circumstances are what allowed FE to get anywhere the way it is. In addition to that, FE has a new protagonist per every game, and a giant cast of characters. That's also the reason they're all partial/full sword users, cause nobody else uses a core different weapon. His like for the series isn't something that really affected Smash 4 DLC and beyond in itself. He added Roy back because he's a massive Melee fan request. Updating him was just so you didn't have two characters that played almost the same as Marth as is. Which was smart, since it made people more likely to get the character anyway as DLC.

It's like you ignored every reason why Dark Pit was added. If you can't understand why assets and game ideas matter more than just "lol, he exists", then there's nothing of note to say here. Here's a reality check; Dark Pit was relevant, cannot perform all of Pit's moveset identically(mainly the final smash. And no, Alph can do literally all of what Olimar can do with no tangible differences. Dark Pit cannot literally use the Sacred Treasures. Alph was not relevant when added. Not even from a constantly selling game as of right now), and the team had unique and easy ideas of how to make Dark Pit work separately from Pit. All of Pikmin & Alph's moveset, btw, revolves around the Pikmin. If you can't make the Pikmin different, you can't make Alph different. It's a duo character, no different from Rosalina & Luma or Ice Climbers, in that regard. When making an Echo, you take it all into account. No matter how poor the Echo can be(Daisy is a great example of the only Echo with barely any differences that matter).
Okay since you're this gungho on defending Sakurai let me ask you this.

Do you think Sakurai is forced to make Byleth?
 

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Okay since you're this gungho on defending Sakurai let me ask you this.

Do you think Sakurai is forced to make Byleth?
Yep. He either makes the character or he doesn't have a job anymore. How the character works is up to him. But Nintendo directly chose the character, and Sakurai actually said it's not who he would've chosen.

"Nintendo is choosing the characters, not me." It's a super straight-forward statement.
 

Akakomuma

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Yep. He either makes the character or he doesn't have a job anymore. How the character works is up to him. But Nintendo directly chose the character, and Sakurai actually said it's not who he would've chosen.

"Nintendo is choosing the characters, not me." It's a super straight-forward statement.
Now do you think Nintendo specifically chose Terry Bogard and Joker? Something Sakurai is deeply fond of?
 

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Now do you think Nintendo specifically chose Terry Bogard and Joker? Something Sakurai is deeply fond of?
No. Persona 5 is a massively good selling game and at best, they had a Persona 3DS spin-off. It was easy promotion for the franchise in general.

Terry himself is a popular vote in Latin America, one area of the world to easily appeal to. Especially when they know it has a massive gaming history with Nintendo, and is pretty well known(SNK as a whole). That's something they know of too.

The tiny chance they are aware Sakurai likes them is possible, but there's no actual evidence there's any correlation either. Not when promoting new games alone is a good idea. Don't forget stuff like Persona 5 Royal as well. Or getting better relationships with various companies. Nintendo wants to be on their good graces as is, as it allows for way more games to port over/get created for their systems. With no "list" in sight, nor suggested it could ever be the case, there's no real reason to believe Sakurai influenced Terry whatsoever. Using hearsay to figure that out? That's not a good way to determine it. There's no "there must be a list." Especially as people made that up to justify characters, despite it being suggested it's far different from that. Hell, even if Nintendo had some magical list, it was likely so damn small it didn't matter. The only possibility that isn't a list otherwise is "character from this game", but since he didn't personally choose Byleth as directly stated, there's nothing to support that idea either.
 
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Akakomuma

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No. Persona 5 is a massively good selling game and at best, they had a Persona 3DS spin-off. It was easy promotion for the franchise in general.

Terry himself is a popular vote in Latin America, one area of the world to easily appeal to. Especially when they know it has a massive gaming history with Nintendo, and is pretty well known(SNK as a whole). That's something they know of too.

The tiny chance they are aware Sakurai likes them is possible, but there's no actual evidence there's any correlation either. Not when promoting new games alone is a good idea. Don't forget stuff like Persona 5 Royal as well. Or getting better relationships with various companies. Nintendo wants to be on their good graces as is, as it allows for way more games.
I'm inclined to disagree then.

For me, I don't personally need to see a black and white sheet of evidence to make my assumption if I just watch Sakurai's history with this series. I've never seen a series with a low selling franchise (until 3ds) claim so many characters over their bigger hits. And it seems for me the games Sakurai works on as well get their own added bonuses like Kid Icarus getting Dark Pit which is a recolor, the Palutena guidances, all the Kirby characters, all these FE chars, the DLC consisting of a few of Sakurai's favorites (I mean the SNK reveal was practically him worshiping the series).

To me, the creator of this series who works on this game almost all hours he is awake who has near total control over each of the game to the point they weren't going to make a sequel and just port Melee to Wii... That's enough for me to have my belief that he, like any other human, is biased and picks based on what he likes / what he thinks is best.

And either way, this topic was about Waluigi and being that he's made some snarky comments about this character that only adds to it for me.

Feel free to disagree, but I definitely feel bias at play personally.
 

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I'm inclined to disagree then.

For me, I don't personally need to see a black and white sheet of evidence to make my assumption if I just watch Sakurai's history with this series. I've never seen a series with a low selling franchise (until 3ds) claim so many characters over their bigger hits. And it seems for me the games Sakurai works on as well get their own added bonuses like Kid Icarus getting Dark Pit which is a recolor, the Palutena guidances, all the Kirby characters, all these FE chars, the DLC consisting of a few of Sakurai's favorites (I mean the SNK reveal was practically him worshiping the series).

To me, the creator of this series who works on this game almost all hours he is awake who has near total control over each of the game to the point they weren't going to make a sequel and just port Melee to Wii... That's enough for me to have my belief that he, like any other human, is biased and picks based on what he likes / what he thinks is best.

And either way, this topic was about Waluigi and being that he's made some snarky comments about this character that only adds to it for me.

Feel free to disagree, but I definitely feel bias at play personally.
"Near total control". We clearly know that isn't the case.

I don't see the bias for FE, outside of the first 4 characters at best. Lucina was lucky to be split off since they had time for an easy cclone. Chrom was voted in strictly by the fans. Corrin almost didn't make it in, till his team convinced him. He was convinced only because the moveset could be fun. That's been outright said, so yeah, I take him at his word here and am not going to put words in his mouth to fit a false narrative. Byleth was 100% Nintendo's choice, not his. All he could best do is act enthusiastic to present the character properly. He wasn't even that excited and looked pretty fake-y during the presentation too. When he outright admits absolutely zero of Fighter's Pass 1 were not "his personal choices", trying to say so otherwise is pretty ridiculous. We have a hard statement on that.

So I'm not going to take a severe lack of evidence any more seriously than "I know he likes this series, therefore, that's the only reason it's in". You don't have any actual evidence he influenced who got in. All the evidence is the exact opposite of what you stated. Just cause you don't think Nintendo could plausibly choose certain stuff doesn't mean they didn't do so. Do you think they just don't care about any kind of gaming history at all? SNK is a big thing and actually was a major part of Nintendo's stuff, especially during the SNES era. Why would it be so hard for them to choose a really cool character that represents SNK the best, as well as appeal to a unique region? Because Sakurai happens to like the series? What is far more likely is they suggested it and Sakurai simply thinks the idea is good. Now, just remember this; "None of the Fighter's Pass was my personal preferences." He just outright admitted Terry was not his personal preference. Nor Joker. The influence you're speaking of is clearly not showing any evidence for that to be a realistic thing.

And what snark? He never snarked about Waluigi. What he did so was state plainly he's not playable because he's an AT. He did so once more during 4. He didn't snark at all during Ultimate. Waluigi's actual characterization is being a dirty cheater. Him simply getting his comeuppance to show off "AT's can be KO'd" is just playing his role. That doesn't make it snark.

It sucks he's not playable, but we don't know if that's really on Sakurai or he's not allowed to use him as playable. Sakurai cannot do whatever he wants to begin with. He needs permission to use any character he didn't make himself(and it's not even clear if he owns every character he made for Smash, since Smash is owned by Nintendo, not him). He's allowed to use the characters. We don't know what Sakurai actually thinks of Waluigi, since he's never given any real comments on it besides "he's not playable cause he's an AT" and that's it. That's not an opinion. So there's nothing to go off of. We can't say he thinks an AT is good enough either in this case. It's not like we know if Waluigi was ever legitimately considered for playable as is.
 

Akakomuma

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"Near total control". We clearly know that isn't the case.

I don't see the bias for FE, outside of the first 4 characters at best. Lucina was lucky to be split off since they had time for an easy cclone. Chrom was voted in strictly by the fans. Corrin almost didn't make it in, till his team convinced him. He was convinced only because the moveset could be fun. That's been outright said, so yeah, I take him at his word here and am not going to put words in his mouth to fit a false narrative. Byleth was 100% Nintendo's choice, not his. All he could best do is act enthusiastic to present the character properly. He wasn't even that excited and looked pretty fake-y during the presentation too. When he outright admits absolutely zero of Fighter's Pass 1 were not "his personal choices", trying to say so otherwise is pretty ridiculous. We have a hard statement on that.

So I'm not going to take a severe lack of evidence any more seriously than "I know he likes this series, therefore, that's the only reason it's in". You don't have any actual evidence he influenced who got in. All the evidence is the exact opposite of what you stated. Just cause you don't think Nintendo could plausibly choose certain stuff doesn't mean they didn't do so. Do you think they just don't care about any kind of gaming history at all? SNK is a big thing and actually was a major part of Nintendo's stuff, especially during the SNES era. Why would it be so hard for them to choose a really cool character that represents SNK the best, as well as appeal to a unique region? Because Sakurai happens to like the series? What is far more likely is they suggested it and Sakurai simply thinks the idea is good. Now, just remember this; "None of the Fighter's Pass was my personal preferences." He just outright admitted Terry was not his personal preference. Nor Joker. The influence you're speaking of is clearly not showing any evidence for that to be a realistic thing.

And what snark? He never snarked about Waluigi. What he did so was state plainly he's not playable because he's an AT. He did so once more during 4. He didn't snark at all during Ultimate. Waluigi's actual characterization is being a dirty cheater. Him simply getting his comeuppance to show off "AT's can be KO'd" is just playing his role. That doesn't make it snark.

It sucks he's not playable, but we don't know if that's really on Sakurai or he's not allowed to use him as playable. Sakurai cannot do whatever he wants to begin with. He needs permission to use any character he didn't make himself(and it's not even clear if he owns every character he made for Smash, since Smash is owned by Nintendo, not him). He's allowed to use the characters. We don't know what Sakurai actually thinks of Waluigi, since he's never given any real comments on it besides "he's not playable cause he's an AT" and that's it. That's not an opinion. So there's nothing to go off of. We can't say he thinks an AT is good enough either in this case. It's not like we know if Waluigi was ever legitimately considered for playable as is.


This wasn't exactly a nice thing to say lol. Had this been King K.Rool or Ridley this would've annoyed a lot of people.

And I still don't agree with what you're saying nor am I going to alter my view. I'm not concerned with physical evidence, I'm trusting my own mind over what I've personally endured with this series. Yours takes you on the defense of Sakurai. Personally I think people consider him infallible cause he makes the game everyone loves.
 

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This wasn't exactly a nice thing to say lol. Had this been King K.Rool or Ridley this would've annoyed a lot of people.

And I still don't agree with what you're saying nor am I going to alter my view. I'm not concerned with physical evidence, I'm trusting my own mind over what I've personally endured with this series. Yours takes you on the defense of Sakurai. Personally I think people consider him infallible cause he makes the game everyone loves.
Yeah, not seeing the remote snark here. It's just a matter of fact statement.

Nobody said he was infallible. But you're definitely putting things on him that just aren't there.
 

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This wasn't exactly a nice thing to say lol. Had this been King K.Rool or Ridley this would've annoyed a lot of people.

And I still don't agree with what you're saying nor am I going to alter my view. I'm not concerned with physical evidence, I'm trusting my own mind over what I've personally endured with this series. Yours takes you on the defense of Sakurai. Personally I think people consider him infallible cause he makes the game everyone loves.
Well, your post sounds a lot like "I don't wanna think, proofs and reasoning are nothing, all that matters is what I feel". Not a very good basis for understanding or for a discussion.
 

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And it makes more sense. I'm actually paying attention to every detail. He's not even a snarky individual. There's really nothing snarky here to begin with.

Either way, as pointed out up above, you're ignoring every single detail that proves what you said wrong. You can't really expect us to take a completely illogical side. He's never once stated an opinion on Waluigi to begin with, so it's pretty hard to see where anything lies in that message but a very straightforward message being made.
 

Akakomuma

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And it makes more sense. I'm actually paying attention to every detail. He's not even a snarky individual. There's really nothing snarky here to begin with.

Either way, as pointed out up above, you're ignoring every single detail that proves what you said wrong. You can't really expect us to take a completely illogical side. He's never once stated an opinion on Waluigi to begin with, so it's pretty hard to see where anything lies in that message but a very straightforward message being made.
What? He's not a snarky individual? He makes quips often.

And I'm not ignoring. I'm just disagreeing, something you seem to be incapable of grasping. I know how your mind works, Irene. Unless something is blunt right in your face you don't believe it. I'm not that way, and you're going to be wasting your time trying to bring me in your style of thinking.

I'd really recommend ending this here.
 

pupNapoleon

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First, it being in China is irrelevant to Japan. Despite proximate there is still an ocean between them. The first recorded death was not until February (see here). Japan didn't close schools until the end of February (28th by this report). So my statement that it didn't hit until March is 100% accurate because any delays wouldn't happen till around then. I think we can safely say it was March.

The other thing you are misunderstanding is there is a difference between affecting the release date and affecting the order. What you are saying is the latter. They have already decided the six character back last year and they are going to come out one after another. There is going to be a set order they'll do it to get released in time. This means they'll start work on some characters and after finishing others. Now, if they were switch the order, like you are saying, that means they'd have to start work on a new character and leave the work they have completed on the back burner. The end result is its delayed further than if they just delayed the release of Fighter 6. They are likely doing the former (pushing back the release date of 6) because to do otherwise delays everything in the pass.

Second, Fighter Pass 6 was worked on alongside Fighter Pass 5 (Byleth). This is often how they get the characters out one-by-one. For example, Joker's files were already in Ultimate when the game was leaked. The day one patch added the files for Hero (then "Brave"). Since then they've hidden the files but given this, Fighter 6 was likely already in production as they've done before (this is also why Hero and Banjo's videos were recorded back to back). This would all be before COVID-19 hit Japan. So with at least 2 months of work they aren't going to halt production to start on a totally new character meant down the line.

Lastly, no, you don't understand the "bases" thing I'm talking about. When we first found out about Hero (when he was Brave) his height value was about Ness's (more specifically Mii Swordfighter who he was based on). Hero's actual height was changed latter as he's quite a bit taller. The bases has little to do with physical properties and has more to do with an attribute. Duck Hunt was the base for Banjo despite the characters being otherwise very different. They are using Bayonetta's Smash attacks as that's what's causing the glitch. This is why Papageno and others are saying it could be Min Min as her Dragon Arm would share a similar property (the glitch is Bayonetta's textures not changing during Smash attacks).

In the end, everything we know about the DLC points to ARMS always being FP6. What likely happened was not that they changed the order of the pass but just pushed the ARMS release to a latter date.

If Nintendo had to halt development on a specific character, such as a third party company (such as Capcom, who may have had a lot of staff personally affected as early as January if an outbreak occurred), they would not push the entire pass back simply to stick to an 'order.' There is plenty of evidence that characters have indeed gotten shuffled- look back to any individual character's reveal (and your own Bayonetta glitch, which was quite a long time earlier to conclude that it would be for FP6). Either way, if they had planned a Resident Evil character, as an example, as character 6, or even thereafter, and all development had to stop temporarily due to an ability to get the next phase of work checked off by the first company- the only option is in fact to put a new character in its place. What you suggest is that no, it is more logical to hold up the entire pass altogether, and compress the releases at a later time. I fail to see the logic in this.
 

SmashChu

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If Nintendo had to halt development on a specific character, such as a third party company (such as Capcom, who may have had a lot of staff personally affected as early as January if an outbreak occurred), they would not push the entire pass back simply to stick to an 'order.' There is plenty of evidence that characters have indeed gotten shuffled- look back to any individual character's reveal (and your own Bayonetta glitch, which was quite a long time earlier to conclude that it would be for FP6). Either way, if they had planned a Resident Evil character, as an example, as character 6, or even thereafter, and all development had to stop temporarily due to an ability to get the next phase of work checked off by the first company- the only option is in fact to put a new character in its place. What you suggest is that no, it is more logical to hold up the entire pass altogether, and compress the releases at a later time. I fail to see the logic in this.
I think it's clear from the bolded line you are completely lost.

Sakurai and his team will be working on these characters in a set order as they come out at different times. So the development of one character will coincide with the development of another. So there is going to be some kind of timeline for these characters (this is what I mean when I say "order"). So how does this mean the entire pass gets delayed. Well, let's run with your theory that they switched out ARMS for someone else. So Fighter X was being developed for at least 2 months before they stopped production of that character and started a new one. The AMRS character would have not been in production as they were meant for later in the pass. Now, the team is starting from scratch for this character. So now it's not an issue of the development of this character is delayed, its no we are starting from square one and it will take so much longer to make a character.

It's far easier to push back two months of work than to start on a new 6 months of work. Not to mention they probably have all the marketing planned out to. The idea that they pushed a character back is really I think some fans wanting to believe FP6 was a hype third party character and not always ARMS. Your argument makes no sense. They didn't push anyone back.
 

Wario Wario Wario

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Nintendo might have picked Waluigi due to popular demand from last year. We might actually get to see a playable Waluigi after all. Fingers crossed!
I'd say Waluigi's chances are just slightly more likely than 50/50 - a solid 55/45 - there's a lot of evidence, but as Skull Kid fans know, that can mean nothing
 

Twirlerena

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I honestly think Waluigi (and assist trophies as a whole) have a good chance at being playable. But I really think Waluigi will be the one they choose because he’s the most highly demanded at the moment. They could save on time making him a fighter because they already have a model to work with. And we know they can modify spirit battles and disable assist trophies so that’s no problem. And he’s a first party character so no need to jump through hurdles to get the rights to him.
 

Wario Wario Wario

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I imagine their solution to already having spirits of DLC fighters would be either:

1. Make a separate Spirit (for example: Waluigi, and Waluigi (Super Smash Bros. Ultimate)
or
2. Have the existing Spirit show up in the Fighters tab on the Spirit list.
 

Twirlerena

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I imagine their solution to already having spirits of DLC fighters would be either:

1. Make a separate Spirit (for example: Waluigi, and Waluigi (Super Smash Bros. Ultimate)
or
2. Have the existing Spirit show up in the Fighters tab on the Spirit list.
Or just make his fighter spirit called Waluigi and have the other called Waluigi (Super Mario).
 
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His fighter spirit would probably be his smash render. I think some of the fighters’s spirits use their renders, right?
All Fighter Spirits use their Smash renders, and most can be alternated between a Fighter render and a canon render - there are some exceptions through, such as Robin, Wii Fit Trainer, Cloud and the Pokemon Trainers who don't have their canon renders - I imagine a second Spirit for a promoted fighter would fall into the latter category.
 

BonafideFella

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I honestly don’t think Nintendo hates Waluigi, there’s plenty of other characters that have bit the dust before him that debuted after Mario Tennis! While the Sports titles were never my favourites, I do love vaudeville and Waluigi’s likely the best representative of that era of entertainment we’ll likely ever get!
Consider me a supporter if I’m not up there already!
 
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I honestly don’t think Nintendo hates Waluigi, there’s plenty of other characters that have bit the dust before him that debuted after Mario Tennis! While the Sports titles were never my favourites, I do love vaudeville and Waluigi’s likely the best representative of that era of entertainment we’ll likely ever get!
Consider me a supporter if I’m not up there already!
What you said about "other characters" reminds me of something I was thinking about yesterday. It's REALLY easy to take Wario's prominence in the Mario franchise for granted. He really has all the makings of a one-off (He's an oddball character who debuted in a handheld title that's class in the main series is debated and gameplay seems a little strange compared to other instalments) but here he is with 2 game series to his name! We could've just as easily ended up with "Tatanga Land" or "MouserWare"! "Angry Sun: Master of Disguise", anyone? "Snailicorn's Woods"?
 
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BonafideFella

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What you said about "other characters" reminds me of something I was thinking about yesterday. It's REALLY easy to take Wario's prominence in the Mario franchise for granted. He really has all the makings of a one-off (He's an oddball character who debuted in a handheld title that's class in the main series is debated and gameplay seems a little strange compared to other instalments) but here he is with 2 game series to his name! We could've just as easily ended up with "Tatanga Land" or "MouserWare"! "Angry Sun: Master of Disguise", anyone? "Snailicorn's Woods"?
I’ve always been partial to Fauster myself, but I digress...
Although Wario’s girthier and more cartoony features made him perfect for a slower, smaller~resolution Game Boy platformer.
 
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What you said about "other characters" reminds me of something I was thinking about yesterday. It's REALLY easy to take Wario's prominence in the Mario franchise for granted. He really has all the makings of a one-off (He's an oddball character who debuted in a handheld title that's class in the main series is debated and gameplay seems a little strange compared to other instalments) but here he is with 2 game series to his name! We could've just as easily ended up with "Tatanga Land" or "MouserWare"! "Angry Sun: Master of Disguise", anyone? "Snailicorn's Woods"?
One of his game series is dead though...
 

BonafideFella

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I’ve had an idea for a mechanic Waluigi could tout for some time, just to add a bit more to his character.
Waluigi’s Smash Attacks all use his racquet, with the added feature of being able to move around while charging your swing, like Mario Tennis itself! It offers a good gateway into Waluigi’s cheating demeanour without being too outwardly blatant.
Of course, they’d probably have to be in the weaker end but it’s all in the sake of balance, right?
 
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